A discussion of the popish doctrine of transubstantiation wherein the same is declared, by…A discussion of the popish doctrine of transubstantiation vvherein the same is declared, by…
A discussion of the popish doctrine of transubstantiation wherein the same is declared, by the confession of their own writers, to have no necessary ground in Gods Word: as also it is further demonstrated to be against Scripture, nature, sense, reason, religion, and the judgement of t5xxauncients, and the faith of our ancestors: written by Thomas Gataker B. of D. and pastor of Rotherhith.A discussion of the popish doctrine of transubstantiation vvherein the same is declared, by the confession of their owne writers, to haue no necessary ground in Gods Word: as also it is further demonstrated to be against Scripture, nature, sense, reason, religion, and the iudgement of t5xxauncients, and the faith of our auncestours: written by Thomas Gataker B. of D. and pastor of Rotherhith.
Thomas Gataker 1574–1654London: printed by John for William Sheffard, 1624London: printed by Iohn for William Sheffard, 1624
[8], 56, 59-233, [3] p. · 81k words · STC 11657 · ESTC S102914
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
The next Divisi•• he maketh entrance into with a 1gross and shameless depravation; and thereupon prosecuteth it to the end with an impertinent digression.
THe next Diuisi•• hee maketh entrance into with a 1grosse and shamelesse deprauation; and thereupon prosecuteth it to the end with an impertinent digression.
Having cited the forenamed Testimonies of Theodoret and Gelasius in mine Answer to that Objection brought commonly against us, as if by a denial of such a real presence as Papists maintain we should make the Sacrament to be nothing but bare bread; I conclude both mine Answer and the Allegation of those two Authors in these words; Thus they, (to wit Gelasius and Theodoret) and ⟨p. 91⟩thus we: and yet neither do they nor we therefore make the Sacraments of Christs body and blood Nothing but bare bread and wine. Now this shameless wretch wanting matter to be dealing with, turneth me Nothing into ANY thing (a man able indeed with his shameless & senseless shifts to pick any thing out of nothing) and relateth my words in this manner to a clean contrary sense; Thus they; and thus we: and yet neither do they, nor we therefore make the Sacraments of Christs body and blood ANY thing but bare bread and wine.
Hauing cited the forenamed Testimenies of Theodoret and Gelasius in mine Answer to that Obiection brought commonly against vs, as if by a deniall of such a reall presence as Papists maintaine wee should make the Sacrament to be nothing but bare bread; I conclude both mine Answer and the Allegation of those two Authors in these wordes; Thus they, (to wit Gelasius and Theodoret) and
thus we: and yet neither doe they nor we therefore make the Sacraments of Christs body and blood NOthing but bare bread and wine. Now this shamelesse wretch wanting matter to be dealing with, turneth me NOthing into ANY thing (a man able indeed with his shamelesse & senselesse shifts to picke any thing out of nothing) and relateth my wordes in this manner to a cleane contrary sense; Thus they; and thus we: and yet neither doe they, nor wee therefore make the Sacraments of Christs body and blood ANY thing but bare bread and wine.
Had either I or my Transcriber, for the truth is, iit was not mine own hand-writing that he had: I write a worse hand I confess, then he is aware of, that accounteth that so bad an one: If either I or he, I say, had slipped here with the pen, as I suspected he might have done, till I saw the copy again that this Answerer had; yet the whole tenor of my speech, wherein I show that the bread and wine in the Eucharist are no more bare bread or bare wine, then the water used in the Sacrament of Baptism is bare water, would sufficiently have showed my meaning. But when the copy that was delivered him, remaining in the custody of that Noble Personage for whom at first it was written, is found apparently to have the words in the very same manner as I have before cited them, I cannot devise kwhat colour this audacious wretch can bring to salve his own credit with, and excuse his corrupt carriage. It argueth not a bad, but a desperate cause, that without such senseless and shameless shifts cannot be upheld. And I beseech your Ladyship well to consider, what credit is to be given to these men alleging Authors, (Fathers, Councils, &c.) which they know you cannot your self peruse and examine, when they dare thus palpably falsify a writing that you have in your own hands, and may have recourse to when you will.
Had either I or my Transcriber, for the truth is, iit was not mine owne hand-writing that hee had: I write a worse hand I confesse, then he is aware of, that accounteth that so bad an one: If either I or hee, I say, had slipt heere with the pen, as I suspected hee might haue done, till I saw the copie againe that this Answerer had; yet the whole tenour of my speech, wherein I shew that the bread and wine in the Eucharist are no more bare bread or bare wine, then the water vsed in the Sacrament of Baptisme is bare water, would sufficiently haue shewed my meaning. But when the copie that was deliuered him, remaining in the custodie of that Noble Personage for whom at first it was written, is found apparantly to haue the wordes in the very same manner as I haue before cited them, I cannot deuise kwhat colour this audacious wretch can bring to salue his owne credite with, and excuse his corrupt carriage. It argueth not a bad, but a desperate cause, that without such senselesse and shamelesse shifts cannot bee vpheld. And I beseech your Ladiship well to consider, what credite is to be giuen to these men alleadging Authors, (Fathers, Councels, &c.) which they know you cannot your selfe peruse and examine, when they dare thus palpably falsifie a writing that you haue in your owne hands, and may haue recourse to when you will.
iYet I remember now that the Marginal notes were of mine own writing; which peradventure occasioned his gird at mine hand.Yet I remē ber now that the Marginall notes were of mine owne writing; which peraduenture occasioned his gird at mine hand.
1. He falleth into an Invective against our Protestanticall Communion, as acknowledged by me to have nothing holy, heavenly and divinely (for so it pleaseth him to speak) therein contained, but bare bread and wine, &c. adding withal, that never C•ietan, never Bellarmine, never Gratian, never Father or other Catholic Divine believed or taught this sacrilegious doctrine (a lye he meaneth, of his own forging) as my Adversary in these words, They, and we, falsely pretendeth.
1. Hee falleth into an Inuectiue against our Protestanticall Communion, as acknowledged by me to haue nothing holy, heauenly and diuinely (for so it pleaseth him to speak) therein contained, but bare bread and wine, &c. adding withall, that neuer C•ietan, neuer Bellarmine, neuer Gratian, neuer Father or other Catholique Diuine beleeued or taught this sacrilegious doctrine (a lye he meaneth, of his owne forging) as my Aduersarie in these wordes, They, and wee, falsly pretendeth.
In which words first (for he cannot forbear falsifying for his life, no not then and there where he chargeth others with falsehood) he intimateth that in those words, Thus they; I should have reference to Caietan, Bellarmine, and Gratian: whereas my words evidently point at Gelasius and Theodoret, whose own words in precise terms I had next before cited.
In which wordes first (for hee cannot forbeare f•lsifying for his life, no not then and there where he chargeth others with falshood) he intimateth that in those words, Thus they; I should haue reference to Caietan, Bellarmine, and Gratian: whereas my wordes euidently point at Gelasius and Theodoret, whose owne wordes in precise tearmes I had next before cited.
2. He chargeth me falsely to say that of the Eucharist, that neither I, nor any of our Divines ever said: yea which being by way of Objection before produced, I not only disavow and disprove, approving freely and at large proving the contrary; but in this place in plain terms conclude the direct contrary unto in the very words by him foully falsified.
2. He chargeth me falsely to say that of the Eucharish, that neither I, nor any of our Diuines euer said: yea which being by way of Obiection before produced, I not onely disauow and disprooue, approouing freely and at large proouing the contrary; but in this place in plaine tearmes conclude the direct contrary vnto in the very wordes by him fowly falfified.
3. He runneth out (to give us some taste of his rolling Rhetoric as well as his loose Logic) into a solemn invocation of his forged S. Dionyse, together with some of the Ancients, (as if he were raising of Spirits with some magical enchantment, to fight with a shadow, and to skirmish with a man of straw of his own making) to testify in that against us that he would fain put upon us, but none of us (by his own confession) ever said or do say.
3. Hee runneth out (to giue vs some taste of his rowling Rhetoricke as well as his loose Logicke) into a solemn inuocation of his forged S. Dionyse, together with some of the Ancients, (as if hee were raising of Spirits with some magicall inchantment, to fight with a shadow, and to skirmish with a man of straw of his owne making) to testifie in that against vs that hee would faine put vpon vs, but none of vs (by his owne confession) euer said or doe say.
Thus he hath nibbled here and there, cavilled at bymatters, coined lies, forged and faced; but given no direct Answer to the Argument, whereunto he should have answered, and whereby it was proved that these words of our Saviour, This my body, may well bear a figurative ⟨p. 93⟩sense; so expounded by the Ancient Fathers, and confessed by their own writers; not so much as attempted to prove the contrary thereunto.
Thus hee hath nibled here and there, cauilled at bymatters, coined lies, forged and faced; but giuen no direct Answer to the Argument, whereunto hee should haue answered, and whereby it was prooued that these wordes of our Sauiour, This my body, may well beare a figuratiue ⟨p. 93⟩sense; so expounded by the Ancient Fathers, and confessed by their owne writers; not so much as attempted to prooue the contrary thereunto.
§ 3. Now howsoever I might very well let pass, as impertinent, those citations and sayings of the Authors here summoned to give in either testimony or sentence against that that none of us avoweth, and which therefore, though all, that either they do say, or he would have them say, were true, did no way cross us, or once touch us in ought that is herein affirmed of us; and I had sometime therefore determined wholly to pass by them, for fear of overcharging this Discourse: yet considering that some weak ones peradventure may stumble at some passages in them, especially as they are unfaithfully by this alleger of them here translated: I have thought good now ere we part with them, to examine what they say, that may seem to make in any sort not against that here charged on us, which we utterly deny, but against that which of this Sacrament we hold otherwise.
§ 3. Now howsoeuer I might very well let passe, as impertinent, those citations and sayings of the Authors here summoned to giue in either testimony or sentence against that that none of vs auoweth, and which therfore, though all, that either they doe say, or hee would haue them say, were true, did no way crosse vs, or once touch vs in ought that is heerein affirmed of vs; and I had sometime therefore determined wholy to passe by them, for feare of ouercharging this Discourse: yet considering that some weake ones peraduenture may stumble at some passages in them, especially as they are vnfaithfully by this alleadger of them here translated: I haue thought good now ere wee part with them, to examinine what they say, that may seeme to make in any sort not against that heere charged on vs, which we vtterly deny, but against that which of this Sacrament we hold otherwise.
The first testimony is S. Dennis his, showed before to be but a counterfeit by the confession even of Popish writers themselves. But whosoever he were (for lcertain enough it is that he was not the party whose name he beareth, but one of a far later time, unknown utterly to Athanasius, Eusebius, and Jerome, though curious searchers and enquirers after the works of those that were before them, mnor known commonly to the world before Gregory's days, as Bellarmine also himself acknowledgeth) he maketh little for them in this point, either in that that here is alleged, or in ought else that Bellarmine can fish or fetch out of him. His words in the place here cited are these and no more: O most divine and holy Mystery, symbolically discovering those nenigmatical ⟨p. 94⟩enfoldments, be declared brightly unto us, and replenish our intellectual eye sights with osingle (or immixt) and unenueloped light. These (I say) his words are as near as I can express them: Which I so do to give you a taste of this Dennis his stile, writing rather like pa Dithyrawhicall Poet (the boldest sort of them) then like a sober and sound Divine; as qtaking upon him to determine the degrees, orders, and offices of the Angels in heaven, which other rthe Ancients durst not do; so discoursing of them and such other matters as he entreateth of in an affected swelling and abstruse strain, and coining a world of strange words and phrases no where else to be found. And no more they are then these; which I add, because to the end of his allegation this fellow putteth an, &c. as if the Author had in that place used some longer discourse of that kind. Nor is the sp••ch (as he would have it) a prayer; but a mere prosopopoeia, or rhetorical compellation, directed not to the Elements alone, but to the Eucharist, or the Lords Supper (if with the sApostle tthey will give us leave at least so to term it) the whole Mystery, or mysterious rite, as uthe word there used properly importeth. Which Pachymeres the Greek paraphraser of this Dennis well paralleleth with another of Gregory Nazianzenes of the same nature; (and as well might Bellarmine or this Defendant have alleged the one as the other.) Who in his Easter-day Sermon turning his speech to the Festivity it self, and then from it to Christ himself, the substance of it, as Nicetas also well observeth;
The first testimony is S. Dennis his, shewed before to be but a counterfeit by the confession euen of Popish writers themselues. But whosoeuer hee were (for lcertaine enough it is that he was not the party whose name hee beareth, but one of a farre later time, vnknowne vtterly to Athanasius, Eusebius, and Ierome, though curious searchers and enquirers after the workes of those that were before them, mnor knowne commonly to the world before Gregories dayes, as Bellarmine also himselfe acknowledgeth) hee maketh little for them in this point, either in that that here is alleadged, or in ought else that Bellarmine can fish or fetch out of him. His wordes in the place heere cited are these and no more: O most diuine and holy Mysterie, symbolically discouering those nenigmaticall ⟨p. 94⟩ensoldments, bee declared brightly vnto vs, and replenish our intellectuall eye sights with osingle (or immixt) and vnenueloped light. These (I say) his wordes are as neere as I can expresse them: Which I so doe to giue you a taste of this Dennis his stile, writing rather like pa Dithyrawhicall Poet (the boldest sort of them) then like a sober and sound Diuine; as qtaking vpon him to determine the degrees, orders, and offices of the Angels in heanen, which other rthe Ancients durst not doe; so discoursing of them and such other matters as hee entreateth of in an affected swelling and abstruse straine, and coining a world of strange wordes and phrases no where else to bee found. And no more they are then these; which I adde, because to the end of his allegation this fellow putteth an, &c. as if the Author had in that place vsed some longer discourse of that kinde. Nor is the sp••ch (as he would haue it) a prayer; but a meere prosopopoei•, or rhetoricall compellation, directed not to the Elements alone, but to the Eucharist, or the Lords Supper (if with the s
lIllum esse de quo in Actis fit mentio, solely, in hac luce literarum, imperiti, & cum linguae Graecae, tum antiquitatis Ecclesiasticae penitus rudes audent affirmare. Casaub, ad Baron. annal. exerc. 16. ss. 43.Illum esse de quo in Actis fit mentio, soli, in hac luce literarum, imperiti, & cum linguae Graecae, tum antiquitatis Ecclesiasticae penitus rudes audent affirmare. Casaub, ad Baron. annal. exerc. 16. ss. 43.
mScripta Dionys•i ante tempora B. Georgij non videntur fuisse cog•ita mundo Bellarm. in Indic. Scrip. MS. apud Rob. Cocum in Cens. Patr. Qui & u•dendus de Dionysio isto. Et Anastasius Biblioth, ad Carol, Reg. apud Andr. Rivet. in specim. Critit. l. 1. c. 9.Scripta Dionys•i ante tempora B. Georgij non videntur fuisse cog•ita mundo Bellarm. in Indic. Scrip. MS. apud Rob. Cocum in Cens. Patr. Qui & u•dendus de Dionysio isto. Et Anastasius Biblioth, ad Carol, Reg. apud Andr. Riuet. in specim. Critit. l. 1. c. 9.
n[Greek or Hebrew].〈non-Latin alphabet〉.
o[Greek or Hebrew].〈non-Latin alphabet〉.
pDithyrambos concinit. Ma•sil. Fi•in. Genus dicendi cothurno Tragi•o vel Dithyrambicis ampullis non multum distat. Casaub. ubi sub.Dithyrambos concinit. Ma•sil. Fi•in. Genus dicendi cothurno Tragi•o vel Dithyrambicis ampullis non multum distat. Casaub. vbi sub.
x O great and holy Passover (saith he) the purgation of the whole world. yFor I will speak to thee as t• some living thing. O word of God, and light, and life, and wisdom, and might. For I take delight in reckoning up all thy titles. Have thou this Oration as well•g•atul•torie as supplicatory, and so forth. And Nicet as thereupon; Those ⟨p. 95⟩2words, O Pasch or Passover, zhe speaks or referreth to the Feast it self. But those, O word of God, and so forward, by way of acclamation he directeth to Christ the spiritual Passover. Nor is it unlike to the speech that Ambr. makes 4in general to the Element of water, though with more special allusion and application to the water of Baptism: fO water that hast merited (that is, in the usual language of those Ancients, too much abused by our Adversaries, hast been vouchsafed the grace) to be a Sacrament of Christ: that washest all, unwashed of any. Thou bringest in the first; thou closest up the last Mysteries. The beginning is from thee; and the end in thee: or rather thou makest us to be without end. And so he goeth on in a long speech to the Element, which yet no wise man will say that he had any purpose there to pray unto. Nor any more had this Dennis 6when he discoursed thus to the Eucharist; the rather to be admitted and so conceived in him, considering his Poetical and enigmatical vain and manner of discourse. I might well put them in mind of that Hymn of theirs, wherein they thus if not invocate, at least parley with the Cross:
x O great and holy Passeouer (saith he) the purgation of the whole world. yFor I will speake to thee as t• some liuing thing. O word of God, and light, and life, and wisedome, and might. For I take delight in reckoning vp all thy titles. Haue thou this Oration as well•g•atul•torie as supplicatorie, and so forth. And Nicet as thereupon; Those ⟨p. 95⟩2wordes, O Pasch or Passeouer, zhe speakes or referreth to the Feast it selfe. But those, O word of God, and so forward, by way of acclamation hee directeth to Christ the spirituall Passeouer. Nor is it vnlike to the speech that Ambr. makes 4in generall to the Element of water, though with more special allusion and application to the water of Baptisme: fO water that hast merited (that is, in the vsuall language of those Auncieuts, too much abused by our Aduersaries, hast beene vouchsa•ed the grace) to be a Sacrament of Christ: that washest all, vnwasht of any. Thou bringest in the first; thou closest vp the last Mysteries. The beginning is from thee; and the end in thee: or rather thou makest vs to bee without end. And so he goeth on in a long speech to the Element, which yet no wise man will say that he had any purpose there to pray vnto. Nor any more had this Dennis 6when he discoursed thus to the Eucharist; the rather to be admitted and so conceiued in him, considering his Poeticall and aenigmaticall vaine and manner of discourse. I might well put them in minde of that Hymne of theirs, wherein they thus if not inuocate, at least parley with the Crosse:
y[Greek or Hebrew].〈non-Latin alphabet〉.
2* [Greek or Hebrew]* 〈non-Latin alphabet〉
zAd festum ipsum perinde ac vita praeditum refert.
4* Ad Christum spi•itale Pascha per acclamationem dirigit.
fO qua, quae Sacramentum Christi esse mesuisti: quae omnia lavas, nec lavaris. Ambr. in Lue. l. 10. c. 22.O qua, quae Sacramentum Christi esse mesuisti: quae omnia lauas, nec lauaris. Ambr. in Lue. l. 10. c. 22.
6g Tu incipis prima, tu con ples perfecta mysteria. A te principium; in te finis. vel potius tu facis ut finem nesciamus, &cg Tu incipis prima, tu cō ples perfecta mysteria. A te principium; in te finis. vel potius tu facis vt finem nesciamus, &c
hAll hail, O Cross, our only Hope;
This Passion time [thy power set ope:]
In righteous Persons grace increase:
To sinful souls their sins release.
hAll h•ile, O Crosse, our onely Hope;
This Passion time [thy power set ope:]
In righteous Persons grace encrease:
To sinfull soules their sinnes release.
hO ave, Crux, spes unica: Hoc passionis tempore, Auge piis justitiam; Reisque dona veniam.O aue, Crux, spes vnica: Hoc passionis tempore, Auge piis iustitiam; Reisque dona veniam.
Which howsoever they would fain salve with such a prosopopoeia isome of them; yet kAquinas ingenuously confesseth that therein they give divine worship to the wooden Cross: or of the like speeches that in a form both of praise, and prayer, they use to lthe Veronica or the print of Christs face in a towel; and mto our ⟨p. 96⟩Ladies girdle, and other the like, wherein they crave •o less of them, beside sundry other graces, then to be cleansed from all sin, and to attain eternal happiness: in so much that one of their writers relating the latter of them breaketh out into these words; nO how many, and how marvellous things are requested of that holy girdle! To which I might well adjoin also, what Aquinas saith, that othey speak & pray to the Cross as to Christ crucified himself: and what Bellarmine telleth us that their pPriests and Friars in the pulpit are wont to say to the wooden Crucifix, qThou hast redeemed us, and reconciled us to God the Father. Which he thus salveth, that this they say to it, not as it is a piece of wood, nor as it is an image neither, but as it supplieth the place of him whom it representeth, that is, rthey say it to Christ, whose Deputy & vicegerent the Image there is. And yet from all this (though too too bad and gross indeed, yea absurd and blasphemous by this mans own grant) will no man infer, that they hold either that girdle to be the Virgin Mary, or either the wooden Cross, or the stained towel, or the carved Crucifix to be Christ himself. So that though that of Dennis were a prayer indeed, which yet plain it is that it is not, yet were it not, by their own grounds and grants, sufficient to prove that he held the Sacrament therefore to be Christ himself. I add only what sfrom Augustine venerable Bede hath, that holy tSigns not only are called by the names, but do in some sort sustain the persons also of those things that they represent. Which as being well considered it may help to clear many speeches of the Ancients wherein they speak those things of the sacred Elements, which cannot be understood but of the things by them signified, so it occasioned them to take the more liberty to themselves for such Rhetorical compellations, as before have bin spoken of.
Which howsoeuer they would faine salue with such a prosopopoeia isome of them; yet kAquinas ingenuously confesseth that therein they giue diuine worship to the woodden Crosse: or of the like speeches that in a forme both of praise, and praier, they vse to lthe Veronicke or the print of Christs face in a towel; and mto our ⟨p. 96⟩Ladies girdle, and othèr the like, wherein they craue •o lesse of them, beside sundry other graces, then to be clensed from all sinne, and to attaine eternall happinesse: in so much that one of their writers relating the latter of them breaketh out into these words; nO how many, and how marueilous things are requested of that holy girdle! To which I might well adioyne also, what Aquinas saith, that othey speake & pray to the Crosse as to Christ crucified himself: and what Bellarmine telleth vs that their pPriests and Friers in the pulpit are wont to say to the woodden Crucifix, qThou hast redeemed vs, and reconciled vs to God the Father. Which he thus salueth, that this they say to it, not as it is a piece of wood, nor as it is an image neither, but as it supplyeth the place of him whom it representeth, that is, rthey say it to Christ, whose Deputie & vicegerent the Image there is. And yet from all this (though too too bad and grosse indeed, yea absurd and blasphemous by this mans owne grant) will no man inferre, that they hold either that girdle to be the Uirgin Mary, or either the woodden Crosse, or the stained towel, or the carued Crucifix to be Christ himselfe. So that though that of Dennis were a prayer indeede, which yet plaine it is that it is not, yet were it not, by their owne grounds and graunts, sufficient to prooue that he held the Sacrament therefore to be Christ himselfe. I adde onely what
iGabr. Vasquez de Adorat. l. 2. c. 4. dis. 3. num. 430. & Bellar. de cult. Sanct. l. 2. c. 24.
lSalve sancta facies nostri Seruatoris, Impressa panniculo nivei candoris, Dataque Veronicae signum ob amoris: Nos ab omni macula purga vitiorum: Atque nos consortio junge beatorum, &c. Oratio à loan Pp. 22. instituta. Antidote. animae.Salue sancta facies nostri Seruatoris, Impressa panniculo niuei candoris, Dataque Veronicae signum ob amoris: Nos ab omni macula purga vitiorum: Atque nos consortio iunge beatorum, &c. Oratio à loanne Pp. 22. instituta. Antidot. animae.
mO veneranda Zona, fac nos haeredes aeternae & beatae vitae, &c. Oratio ab Euthymio composita.
nO quam magna & mira petit a veneranda Zona. Lipoman.
oCrucem alloquimur & deprecamur quasi ipsum crucifixum. Thom. ubi sup.Crucem alloquimur & deprecamur quasi ipsum crucifixum. Thom. vbi sup.
pSic concionatores alloquuntur imaginem crucifixi, &c. Bellar de imagin. c. 23.
qTu nos redemisti, &c.
rDicuntur Christo, cuius imago vicem gerit.
sEx Aug. de civit lib. 18. c. 28. Bed. in 1. Cor. 10.Ex Aug. de ciuit lib. 18. c. 28. Bed. in 1. Cor. 10.
tOmnia significantia videntur quodammodo earum rerum quas significant sustinere personas.
Yea, but else-where (may some say,) and that but a little after, he turneth himself to the Host, which is said there to be his better or above him, and therefore unot bare bread; excusing himself ⟨p. 97⟩to it, that he presumeth to deal with it. Indeed so it pleaseth xBellarmine to cite him as if he had said; yThe high Priest, that he sacrificeth the saving Host, that is above him, zexcuseth himself to him, or to it, crying out; Thou hast said, Do this; &c. But let Dennis speak in his own language, or but aas their own writers translate him, and both Bellarmines mis-alleging of him will soon be discovered, and the force of his reason drawn from thence utterly dissolved. That which he saith is word for word thus; bThe divine Hierarch standing at the divine Altar, ccelebrateth (that is, praiseth and extolleth) Christs holy divine works out of his most divine care of us for our salvation by the goodwill of his Father in the Holy Ghost by him consummated. Which having celebrated, and by contemplation with intellectual eyes taken a venerable and spiritual view of them, he passeth unto dthe symbolical celebration (or, holy administration) of them, and that eaccording to divine Tradition: Wherefore religiously and hierarchically (that is, as becometh an Hierarch, or a Bishop) after the holy celebration (or, fsolemn praise) of those divine works, ghe maketh an Apology for himself in regard of that boly service (or, sacrifice, as they translate it, though *the word be more general) that is to worthy for him to deal with, crying out to him, (to whom but to Christ Jesus before mentioned?) Thou hast said, Do this in remembrance of me. And then hhaving requested that he may be vouchsafed the grace of performing this holy and divine service in holy manner, and that those that are to communicate may religiously partake in it, he performeth the most divine service, &c. For uncovering ithe bread that was hitherto covered and undivided, and dividing it into many pieces, and kdistributing to them all the one only Cup, be doth symbolically, further their unity, lthereby performing his most holy service. Now where is there here any mention ⟨p. 98⟩of an Host? or affirming that Host to be above him or better then himself? or making any speech at all to it? And yet if it were Christ, to whom should he direct his speech more fitly then to it?
Yea, but else-where (may some say,) and that but a little after, he turneth himselfe to the Host, which is said there to be his better or aboue him, and therefore unot bare bread; excusing himselfe ⟨p. 97⟩to it, that he presumeth to deale with it. Indeede so it pleaseth xBellarmine to cite him as if hee had said; yThe high Priest, that he sacrificeth the sauing Host, that is aboue him, zexcuseth himselfe to him, or to it, crying out; Thou hast said, Doe this; &c. But let Dennis speake in his owne language, or but aas their owne writers translate him, and both Bellarmines mis-alleadging of him will soone be discouered, and the force of his reason drawne from thence vtterly dissolued. That which he saith is word for word thus; bThe diuine Hierarch standing at the diuine Altar, ccelebrateth (that is, praiseth and extolleth) Christs holy diuine workes out of his most diuine care of vs for our saluation by the goodwill of his Father in the Holy Ghost by him consummated. Which hauing celebrated, and by contemplation with intellectuall eyes taken a venerable and spirituall view of them, he passeth vnto dthe symbolicall celebration (or, holy administration) of them, and that eaccording to diuine Tradition: Wherefore religiously and hierarchically (that is, as becommeth an Hierarch, or a Bishop) after the holy celebration (or, fsolemne praise) of those diuine workes, ghe maketh an Apologie for himselfe in regard of that boly seruice (or, sacrifice, as they translate it, though *
uAt certè purus panis non supra nos est. Bellarm. de Euch. l. 2. c. 3.
xBellarm. Ibid.
yPontifex quod hostiam salutarem quae supra ipsum est litet, &c.
zSe excusat ad ipsum exclamans, &c.
aPerionii versio à Lansselio Soc. Jes. subornata & suppleta.Perionii versio à Lansselio Soc. Ies. subornata & suppleta.
d[Greek or Hebrew]. Sacrificium quod signis continetur. Lauss.〈non-Latin alphabet〉. Sacrificium quod signis continetur. Lauss.
e[Greek or Hebrew].〈non-Latin alphabet〉.
f[Greek or Hebrew]. Divinorum operū lauds.〈non-Latin alphabet〉. Diuinorum operū laudes.
g[Greek or Hebrew]. De sacrificio quod ipsius dignitatem superat see purgat. Laus.〈non-Latin alphabet〉. De sacrificio quod ipsius dignitatem superat se purgat. Laus.
*It is used by this Author oft. speaking of Baptism. chap. 2.It is vsed by this Author oft. speaking of Baptism. chap. 2.
what should he speak to him as sited else-where, when he hath him corporally there present? The rather if, as they tell us, *he seeth there what we do, and heareth what we say, though he say nothing himself, because he would not be discovered. Yea but he acknowledgeth the holy service then and there to be performed, to be too worthy for him to deal with? And doth not the Apostle say as much of the ministry of the word; that mno man is sufficient, or nworthy enough for such a work? Or may not the same truly be said of the Sacrament of Baptism, and the administration of it? There is nothing here then in either allegation that may at all help to establish the Popish Transubstantiation. And yet this is all, that out of this Dennis Bellarmine is able to produce. Who though indeed otherwise not free from sundry fantastical conceits, yet is so far from inclining to that prodigious fancy, that the whole tenure of his discourse concerning that Sacrament (as the ancient Scholiast also hath well observed on him) runneth clean another way. He calleth the Eucharist, (as you have heard) oa symbolical service; and pa distribution of bread and a Cup: and the bread and the Cup used in it, qsymbols or signs, and rimages, or spictures, and tpatterns uresembling the truth of their principals, to which he doth also there oppose them. And not we, but the Monk Maximus anciently expounding him, xMark you (saith he) how still he calleth this divine service a Symbolical service; that is, ya service (saith he) consisting of Symbols or Signs; and zthe holy gifts themselves signs or symbols of the true things above. And again, *He calleth them pictures and images of true things unseen. And if we ask him what that word Symbol or Sign signifieth; ⟨p. 99⟩aA Symbol or Sign (saith he) is a thing sensible taken for something intelligible, as bread and wine for the spiritual and divine food and refection, and the like. Yea hereupon he inferreth that bbecause these things are Symbols and Signs, they are not therefore the truth it self. For cthe image (saith he else-where, and that from Dennis himself too) albeit it have never so near a resemblance, yet in substance differeth from that whereof it is a resemblance.
what should he speake to him as sited else-where, when hee hath him corporally there present? The rather if, as they tell vs, *he seeth there what we doe, and heareth what we say, though he say nothing himselfe, because he would not be discouered. Yea but he acknowledgeth the holy seruice then and there to be performed, to be too worthy for him to deale with? And doth not the Apostle say as much of the ministery of the word; that mno man is sufficient, or nworthy enough for such a worke? Or may not the same truly be said of the Sacrament of Baptisme, and the administration of it? There is nothing here then in either allegation that may at all helpe to establish the Popish Transubstantiation. And yet this is all, that out of this Dennis Bellarmine is able to produce. Who though indeede otherwise not free from sundry fantasticall conceipts, yet is so farre from enclining to that prodigious fancy, that the whole tenure of his discourse concerning that Sacrament (as the auncient Scholiast also hath well obserued on him) runneth cleane another way. He calleth the Eucharist, (as you haue heard) oa symbolicall seruice; and pa distribution of bread and a Cup: and the bread and the Cup vsed in it, qsymboles or signes, and rimages, or spictures, and tpaternes uresembling the truth of their principals, to which he doth also there oppose thē. And not we, but the Monke Maximus aunciently expounding him, xMarke you (saith he) how still he calleth this diuine seruice a Symbolicall seruice; that is, ya seruice (saith he) consisting of Symboles or Signes; and
*Corpus Christi, sive Christus, ibi videt & audit, quamuis non loquitur, ne deprehendatur. Bonavent. in sent. I. 4. dist. 10. quaest. 2.Corpus Christi, siue Christus, ibi videt & audit, quamuis non loquitur, ne deprehendatur. Bonauent. in sent. I. 4. dist. 10. quaest. 2.
the word there vsed properly importeth. Which Pachymeres the Greeke paraphraser of this Dennis well paralleleth with another of Gregorie Nazianzenes of the same nature; (and as well might Bellarmine or this Defendant haue alleadged the one as the other.) Who in his Easter-day Sermon turning his speech to the Festiuity it selfe, and then from it to Christ himselfe, the substance of it, as Nicetas also well obserueth;
Col. 2. 18
. De his rebus magno supercilio pronuncians, de quibus Paulus è coelo tertio reversus non ausus est hiscere. Eras. de ver. Theol.
〈non-Latin alphabet〉Col. 2. 18. De his rebus magno supercilio pronuncians, de quibus Paulus è coelo tertio reuersus non ausus est hiscere. Eras. de ver. Theol.
rIren. cont. Valent. l. 2. c. 55. Cyril. nomi. catech. mystag. 2. Aug. enchit. c. 58. De Athanasio vide Sixt. sen. biblioth l. 3. de Greg. & Bern. Eckium hom. 4. de Michael. & Riber in Heb. c. 1.Iren. cōt. Valent. l. 2. c. 55. Cyril. nomi. catech. mystag. 2. Aug. enchit. c. 58. De Athanasio vide Sixt. sen. biblioth l. 3. de Greg. & Bern. Eckium hom. 4. de Michael. & Riber in Heb. c. 1.
s[…] Cor. 11. 20. vide Casaub. ad Baron. exer. 16. sect. 32.〈…〉 Cor. 11. 20. vide Casaub. ad Baron. exer. 16. sect. 32.
tCaluinistae sinè scripturae autoritate, sine veterum exemplo, si•e ratione, sine judici• coenam vocant. Maldonat. in Math. c. 26.Caluinistae sinè scripturae autoritate, sine veterum exemplo, si•e ratione, sine iudici• coenam vocant. Maldonat. in Math. c. 26.
Signes not onely are called by the names, but doe in some sort sustaine the persons also of those things that they represent. Which as being well considered it may helpe to cleere many speeches of the Ancients wherin they speak those things of the sacred Elements, which cannot be vnderstood but of the things by thē signified, so it occasioned them to take the more libertie to themselues for such Rhetoricall compellations, as before haue bin spoken of.
the word be more generall) that is to worthy for him to deale with, crying out to him, (to whom but to Christ Iesus before mentioned?) Thou hast said, Doe this in remembrance of me. And then
hauing requested that he may be vouchsafed the grace of performing this holy and diuine seruice in holy manner, and that those that are to communicate may religiously partake in it, hee performeth the most diuine seruice, &c. For vncouering
thereby performing his most holy seruice. Now where is there here any mention
⟨p. 98⟩
of an Host? or affirming that Host to be aboue him or better then himselfe? or making any speech at all to it? And yet if it were Christ, to whom should he direct his speech more fitly then to it?
A Symbole or Signe (saith he) is a thing sensible taken for something intelligible, as bread and wine for the spirituall and diuine foode and refection, and the like. Yea hereupon he inferreth that
the image (saith he else-where, and that from Dennis himselfe too) albeit it haue neuer so neere a resemblance, yet in substance differeth from that whereof it is a resemblance.
s[Greek or Hebrew].〈non-Latin alphabet〉.
t[Greek or Hebrew].〈non-Latin alphabet〉.
u[Greek or Hebrew].〈non-Latin alphabet〉.
x[Greek or Hebrew]. Maxim. Schol. in Hierarch. Eccles. c. 3.〈non-Latin alphabet〉. Maxim. Schol. in Hierarch. Eccles. c. 3.
y[Greek or Hebrew].〈non-Latin alphabet〉.
z[Greek or Hebrew]. Maxim. ibid.〈non-Latin alphabet〉. Maxim. ibid.
*[Greek or Hebrew]. Ibid.〈non-Latin alphabet〉. Ibid.
a[Greek or Hebrew]. Idem in interpret. nom.〈non-Latin alphabet〉. Idem in interpret. nom.
b[Greek or Hebrew]. Idem in schol.〈non-Latin alphabet〉. Idem in schol.
c[Greek or Hebrew]. Idem in cap 4.〈non-Latin alphabet〉. Idem in cap 4.
