A reply unto M. Hardinges answerA replie vnto M. Hardinges ansvveare
A reply unto M. Hardinges answer by perusing whereof the discrete, and diligent reader may easily see, the weak, and unstable grounds of the Romaine religion, which of late hath been accounted Catholic. By John Jewel Bishop of Salisbury.A replie vnto M. Hardinges ansvveare by perusinge whereof the discrete, and diligent reader may easily see, the weake, and vnstable groundes of the Romaine religion, whiche of late hath beene accompted Catholique. By Iohn Iewel Bishoppe of Sarisburie.
John Jewel 1522–1571Imprinted at London : In Fleetestreate, at the sign of the Black Oliphant, by Henry Wykes, Anno. 1565Imprinted at London : In Fleetestreate, at the signe of the Blacke Oliphante, by Henry VVykes, Anno. 1565
[24], 212, 212-523, 526-641, [12] p. · 449k words · STC 14606 · ESTC S112269
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
Here M. Harding by counterpoints, and by sundry circumstances of difference, compareth the state of the Primitive Church, and his Church of Rome together, and thereof would seem to prove, that S. Pauls words, which S. ⟨p. 204⟩Paul him self calleth Mandata Domini, The Lordes commandments, stood good only for that time present and for no time afterward: as if he would say, Gods will were mutable, or his commandments hold only for term of years.
Here M. Hardinge by countrepointes, and by sundrie circumstances of difference, compareth the state of the Primitiue Churche, and his Churche of Rome togeather, and thereof woulde seeme to prooue, that S. Paules woordes, which S. ⟨p. 204⟩Paule him selfe calleth Mandata Domini, The Lordes commaundementes, stoode good onely for that time present and for no time afterwarde: as if he woulde say, Gods wil were mutable, or his commaundementes holde onely for terme of yéeres.
I grant, there appear great notes of difference between the order of the Primitive Church, and the order that now is in the Church of Rome. For, to leave all that M. Harding hath here touched by way of comparison, and to note that may seem near to this purpose, The rulers there wished, and laboured that the people might abound in knowledge: Here, their whole labour and study is, that the people may abound in ignorance. There, the Ministers spake with sundry tongues, that the people of all Nations might understand them: Here, the Minister speaketh in a strange tongue, to the intent that no man may understand him. There, the simple, and the ignorant were made eloquent: Here, the Bishops, and Cardinals, and greatest learned are made dumb. And to prosecute no further, there appeared in the Primitive Church, the undoubted works of the holy Ghost, and the very tracts, and steppes of Christs feet: and therefore Irenaeus,
and other Old Fathers, in cases of doubt, appealed evermore to the order, and example of that Church. And Tertullian saith, Hoc aduersus omnes haereses valet,
id esse verum, quodcunque prius: id esse adulterum, quodcunque posterius. This Mark prevaileth against all Heresies: That is the trueth that was used first, that is false, and corrupt, that was brought in afterward. And therefore the Holy Fathers in the Council
of Nice made this general shout, and agreed upon the same, [Greek or Hebrew]. Let the ancient orders hold still, referring them selves thereby, to the use and order of the Primitive Church. Contrariwise, Ualentinus, Marcion, and other like Heretics, thought them selves wisest of all others, and therefore utterly refused (as M. Harding and his fellows now do) to stand to the Apostles orders: Thus Irenaeus
writeth of them: Dicent se, non solùm Presbyteris, sed etiam Apostolis sapientiores esse, & sinceram veritatem inuenisse. They will say, that they are wiser, not only then other priests, but also then the Apostles, and that they have found out the perfect trueth. I say not, M. Harding is so wickedly minded, as Ualentinus, or Marcion was: but thus I say, He utterly refuseth, to stand to the Apostles orders, and followeth other late devised fantasies: and therein undoubtedly doth, even as the old Heretics Marcion, and Ualentinus did.
I graunte, there appeare greate notes of difference betwéene the order of the Primitiue Churche, and the order that now is in the Churche of Rome. For, to leaue al that M. Hardinge hath here touched by way of comparison, and to note that may séeme neare to this prupose, The rulers there wisshed, and laboured that the people might abounde in knowledge: Here, their whole labour and study is, that the people may abounde in ignorance. There, the Ministers spake with sundrie tongues, that the people of al Nations might vnderstande them: Here, the Minister speaketh in a strange tongue, to the intente that noman may vnderstande him. There, the simple, and the ignorant were made eloquent: Here, the Bishoppes, and Cardinals, and greatest learned are made dumme. And to prosecute no further, there appeared in the Primitiue Churche, the vndoubted woorkes of the holy Ghoste, and ye very tractes, and steppes of Christes féete: and therefore Irenaeus, 1and other Olde Fathers, in cases of doubte, appealed euermore to the order, and example of that Churche. And Tertullian saith, Hoc aduersus omnes haereses valet, 2id esse verum, quodcunque prius: id esse adulterum, quodcunque posterius. This Marke preuaileth agianst al Heresies: That is the trueth that was vsed first, that is false, and corrupte, that was brought in afterwarde. And therefore the Holy Fathers in the Councel3 of Nice made this general shoute, and agreed vpon the same, 〈non-Latin alphabet〉. Let the auncient orders holde stil, referringe them selues thereby, to the vse and order of the Primitiue Churche. Contrarywise, Ualentinus, Marcion, and other like Heretiques, thought them selues wisest of al others, and therfore vtterly refused (as M. Hardinge and his fellowes now doo) to stande to the Apostles orders: Thus Irenaeus 4writeth of them: Dicent se, non solùm Presbyteris, sed etiam Apostolis sapientiores esse, & sinceram veritatem inuenisse. They will say, that they are wiser, not onely then other priestes, but also then the Apostles, and that they haue founde out the perfit trueth. I say not, M. Hardinge is so wickedly minded, as Ualentinus, or Marcion was: but thus I say, He vtterly refuseth, to stande to the Apostles orders, and foloweth other late diuised fantasies: and therein vndoubtedly doothe, euen as the olde Heretiques Marcion, and Ualentinus did.
O what meaneth M. Harding thus to deal? Loth I am, to make the comparison. But true it is: Very Children do not use, to reason in so childish sort.
O what meaneth M. Hardinge thus to deale? Lothe I am, to make the comparison. But true it is: Uery Children doo not vse, to reason in so childishe sorte.
He knoweth well, that commonly, neither any one of the whole parish, understandeth the Latin tongue, nor oftentimes the Priest himself. He knoweth that the people of his Church, is not instructed in Religion, nor no man suffered to instruct them. And, not withstanding both these parts were granted true, yet could he not any way conclude, that therefore the people should have their Service in a strange unknown tongue. Thus, neither is the Antecedent true, nor doth the Consequent thereof follow. Now judge thou, good Christian Reader, whether these proofs bear weight sufficient to lead thy conscience.
He knoweth wel, that commonly, neither any one of the whole parish, vnderstandeth the Latine tongue, nor oftentimes the Priest himselfe. He knoweth that the people of his Churche, is not instructed in Religion, nor no man suffered to instructe them. And, not withstandinge bothe these partes were graunted true, yet coulde he not any way conclude, that therfore ye people should haue their Seruice in a strange vnknowen tongue. Thus, neither is the Antecedent true, nor doothe the Consequent thereof folow. Now iudge thou, good Christian Reader, whether these proufes beare weight sufficient to leade thy conscience.
He saith, Prayers in the Common Vulgar tongue were necessary in the primitive Church, for breeding of the Faith. But what thing can be bred by ⟨p. 205⟩prayers in a strange tongue? What Knowledge, what Faith, what Charity?
He saith, Praiers in the Common Uulgare tongue were necessary in the primitiue Churche, for breedinge of the Faith. But what thinge can be bredde by ⟨p. 205⟩praiers in a strange tongue? What Knowledge, what Faithe, what Charitie?
The Apostles were not void of Faith:1 yet they said unto Christ, O Lord increase our Faith. Christ speaking of the latter days, saith thus: When the Son of man shall come, he shall scarcely find Faith in the world. Doubtless, the thing, that was good to rear the Faith, is also good to repair the Faith: and that was then necessary to increase Faith, is also necessary now to continue Faith.
The Apostles were not voyde of Faithe:1 yet they saide vnto Christe, O Lorde increase our Faithe. Christe speakinge of the latter daies, saith thus: VVhen the Sonne of man shal come, he shal scarcely finde Faith in the vvorlde. Doubtelesse, the thinge, that was good to reare the Faithe, is also good to repaire the Faithe: and that was then necessary to increase Faithe, is also necessary now to continue Faithe.
