A10345:1423
The sum of the conference between John Rainoldes and John Hart touching the head…The summe of the conference betwene Iohn Rainoldes and Iohn Hart touching the head…
The sum of the conference between John Rainoldes and John Hart touching the head and the faith of the Church. Wherein by the way are handled sundry points, of the sufficiency and right expounding of the Scriptures, the ministry of the Church, the function of priesthood, the sacrifice of the mass, with other controversies of religion: but chiefly and purposely the point of Church-government ... Penned by John Rainoldes, according to the notes set down in writing by them both: perused by John Hart, and (after things supplied, & altered, as he thought good) allowed for the faithful report of that which past in conference between them. Whereunto is annexed a treatise entitled, Six conclusions touching the Holy Scripture and the Church, written by John Rainoldes. With a defence of such things as Thomas Stapleton and Gregory Martin have carped at therein.The summe of the conference betwene Iohn Rainoldes and Iohn Hart touching the head and the faith of the Church. Wherein by the way are handled sundrie points, of the sufficiencie and right expounding of the Scriptures, the ministerie of the Church, the function of priesthood, the sacrifice of the masse, with other controuerises of religion: but chiefly and purposely the point of Church-gouernment ... Penned by Iohn Rainoldes, according to the notes set downe in writing by them both: perused by Iohn Hart, and (after things supplied, & altered, as he thought good) allowed for the faithfull report of that which past in conference betwene them. Whereunto is annexed a treatise intitled, Six conclusions touching the Holie Scripture and the Church, writen by Iohn Rainoldes. With a defence of such thinges as Thomas Stapleton and Gregorie Martin haue carped at therein.
Londini: printed by John Wolfe, 1584Londini: printed by Iohn Wolfe, 1584
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
Hart. Who shall be judge then? And how shall it be tried?
Hart. Who shall be iudge then? And how shall it bee tryed?
Rainoldes. Optatus in the question of the Catholics with the Donatists, whether one should be twice baptized: kyou (saith he) say, it is lawful: we say, it is not lawful. Between your [it is lawful,] & our [it is not lawful,] the peoples souls do doubt and waver. Let none believe you, nor us: we are all contentious men. Judges must be sought for. If Christians: they can not be given of both sides; for truth is hindered by affections. A judge without must be sought for. If a Paynim: he can not know the Christian mysteries. If a Jew: he is an enemy of Christian baptism. No judgement therefore of this matter can be found in earth: 1a judge from heaven must be sought for. But why knock we at heaven: when here we have 2the testament of Christ in the gospel? So, by the opinion and reason of Optatus, you and we can have no fit judge in earth: God must judge us by his word. But if the Pope will be tried by God & the country: let him appear at the assize; I will indict him of fe•••ie for robbing Christians of their goods; and I will use no witnesses to prove it but the Fathers.
Rainoldes. Optatus in the question of the Catholikes with the Donatists, whether one should be twise baptized: kyou (saith he) say, it is lawfull: we say, it is not lawfull. Betweene your [it is lawfull,] & our [it is not lawfull,] the peoples souls do dout and wauer. Let none beleeue you, nor vs: we are all contentious men. Iudges must be sought for. If Christians: they can not be giuen of both sides; for truth is hindred by affections. A iudge without must be sought for. If a Paynim: he can not know the Christian mysteries. If a Iewe: he is an enimie of Christian baptisme. No iudgement therefore of this matter can be found in earth: