A10345:1499
The sum of the conference between John Rainoldes and John Hart touching the head…The summe of the conference betwene Iohn Rainoldes and Iohn Hart touching the head…
The sum of the conference between John Rainoldes and John Hart touching the head and the faith of the Church. Wherein by the way are handled sundry points, of the sufficiency and right expounding of the Scriptures, the ministry of the Church, the function of priesthood, the sacrifice of the mass, with other controversies of religion: but chiefly and purposely the point of Church-government ... Penned by John Rainoldes, according to the notes set down in writing by them both: perused by John Hart, and (after things supplied, & altered, as he thought good) allowed for the faithful report of that which past in conference between them. Whereunto is annexed a treatise entitled, Six conclusions touching the Holy Scripture and the Church, written by John Rainoldes. With a defence of such things as Thomas Stapleton and Gregory Martin have carped at therein.The summe of the conference betwene Iohn Rainoldes and Iohn Hart touching the head and the faith of the Church. Wherein by the way are handled sundrie points, of the sufficiencie and right expounding of the Scriptures, the ministerie of the Church, the function of priesthood, the sacrifice of the masse, with other controuerises of religion: but chiefly and purposely the point of Church-gouernment ... Penned by Iohn Rainoldes, according to the notes set downe in writing by them both: perused by Iohn Hart, and (after things supplied, & altered, as he thought good) allowed for the faithfull report of that which past in conference betwene them. Whereunto is annexed a treatise intitled, Six conclusions touching the Holie Scripture and the Church, writen by Iohn Rainoldes. With a defence of such thinges as Thomas Stapleton and Gregorie Martin haue carped at therein.
Londini: printed by John Wolfe, 1584Londini: printed by Iohn Wolfe, 1584
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
Rainoldes. These flowers of your Seminary, that we are heretics, bold, impudent; that all antiquity is against us: you may spare them, for they are stale; they have been dipped in gall & lye. You say that he proveth plainly almost all things that the Church now useth in the ministration of the holy Sacraments. If you mean by the Church, not our Church, but yours: that [almost] must have favour, or else without almost you lavish. For though he have more things, then either the Church of the Apostles had, or ours doth allow: yet neither all that you have, & many that you have not, and some clean contrary to yours. As namely, in the sacrament of the Lords supper, wherein you vary from us most: 1he neither hath your stage-like gestures & toys, nor invocation of Saints, nor adoration of creatures, nor sacrificing of Christ to God, nor praying for the souls in Purgatory, nor sole receiving of the Priest, nor ministering under on• kind to them who receive, nor exhortations, lessons, prayers in a tongue which the people doth not understand. So that in thing• of substance, and not of ceremony only, he differeth as far from your blasphemous Mass, as he is near to our Communion. But the things which he hath, you say that he affirmeth he learned them of the Apostles. He doth so, I grant: as it was fit for him, ewho would be counted that Denis which was converted by S. Paul. But, as it happeneth unto counterfeits, he hath forgot himself in one place, and so betrayed the feat. For, fspeaking of infants, why they are baptized: hereof (saith he) we say those things, which our divine masters 1being instructed by the old tradition, have brought unto us. By the which words, the man at unawares hath showed that he learned not ⟨p. 487⟩not of the Apostles. For Christ him self instructed the Apostles of baptism: they had it not from old tradition.
Rainoldes. These flowers of your Seminarie, that wee are heretikes, bold, impudent; that all antiquitie is against vs: you may spare them, for they are stale; they haue béene dipt in gall & lye. You say yt he proueth plainely almost al things that the Church now vseth in the ministration of the holy Sacraments. If you meane by the Church, not our Church, but yours: that [almost] must haue fauor, or els without almost you lauish. For though he haue more thinges, then either the Church of the Apostles had, or ours doth allow: yet neither all that you haue, & many that you haue not, and some cleane contrarie to yours. As namely, in the sacrament of the Lords supper, wherin you varie from vs most: