The sum of the conference between John Rainoldes and John Hart touching the head…The summe of the conference betwene Iohn Rainoldes and Iohn Hart touching the head…
The sum of the conference between John Rainoldes and John Hart touching the head and the faith of the Church. Wherein by the way are handled sundry points, of the sufficiency and right expounding of the Scriptures, the ministry of the Church, the function of priesthood, the sacrifice of the mass, with other controversies of religion: but chiefly and purposely the point of Church-government ... Penned by John Rainoldes, according to the notes set down in writing by them both: perused by John Hart, and (after things supplied, & altered, as he thought good) allowed for the faithful report of that which past in conference between them. Whereunto is annexed a treatise entitled, Six conclusions touching the Holy Scripture and the Church, written by John Rainoldes. With a defence of such things as Thomas Stapleton and Gregory Martin have carped at therein.The summe of the conference betwene Iohn Rainoldes and Iohn Hart touching the head and the faith of the Church. Wherein by the way are handled sundrie points, of the sufficiencie and right expounding of the Scriptures, the ministerie of the Church, the function of priesthood, the sacrifice of the masse, with other controuerises of religion: but chiefly and purposely the point of Church-gouernment ... Penned by Iohn Rainoldes, according to the notes set downe in writing by them both: perused by Iohn Hart, and (after things supplied, & altered, as he thought good) allowed for the faithfull report of that which past in conference betwene them. Whereunto is annexed a treatise intitled, Six conclusions touching the Holie Scripture and the Church, writen by Iohn Rainoldes. With a defence of such thinges as Thomas Stapleton and Gregorie Martin haue carped at therein.
John Rainolds 1549–1607Londini: printed by John Wolfe, 1584Londini: printed by Iohn Wolfe, 1584
475, [1], 479-674, 659-750 p. · 304k words · STC 20626 · ESTC S115546
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
Hart. Nay, doubtless at yChalcedon, the Judges, having heard the former canons read, said that they perceived all primacy & principal honour to be due to the Pope thereby.
Hart. Nay, doubtlesse at yChalcedon, the Iudges, hauing heard the former canons read, sayd that they perceiued al primacie & principall honour to be due to the Pope thereby.
Rainoldes. But they added that the Patriarch of Constantinople ought to be vouchsafed of the same prerogatives and primacy of honour. As zthe C•uncell also it self allotted equal prerogatives to them both: ordaining thereupon, that Constantinople should be magnified in ecclesiastical matters as well as Rome, and be next unto it. Wherein it is manifest that they meant preeminence of honour, not of power. For athemselves decreed that the highest judge of ecclesiastical persons should be the Patriarch of the diocese, or of Constantinople. Whereby they gave greater power to the Patriarch of Constantinople, whom they authorised to deal in every diocese; then to the Roman Patriarch, whom they tied to his own. In so much that bthe Greeks say that all dioceses of the whole world were subject to their Patriarch by the Council of Chalcedon. At least if the Council ha• an eye to power, and not to honour only, in willing them to be magnified: yet that is a disproof still of the Popes supremacy. As you may learn by
Rainoldes. But they added that the Patriarke of Constantinople ought to be vouchsafed of the same prerogatiues and primacie of honour. As zthe C•uncell also it selfe allotted equall prerogatiues to them both: ordeining therevpon, that Constantinople should be magnified in ecclesiasticall matters as well as Rome, and be next vnto it. Wherein it is manifest that they meant preeminence of honour, not of power. For athemselues decréed that the highest iudge of ecclesiasticall persons should be the Patriarke of the diocese, or of Constantinople. Wherby they gaue greater power to the Patriarke of Constantinople, whom they authorised to deale in euery diocese; then to the Roman Patriarke, whom they tied to his own. In so much that bye Greekes say that all dioceses of the whole world were subiect to their Patriarke by the Councell of Chalcedon. At least if the Councel ha• an eye to power, and not to honour only, in willing them to be magnified: yet that is a disproofe still of ye Popes supremacie. As you may learne by cGratian. Who séeking to proue it by the same canon renued in dthe Councell ⟨p. 665⟩of Constantinople, hath helped it with a negatiue: and where the Councell sayd, Let Constantinople 1be magnified as well as Rome; he alleageth it, let 2not Constantinople be magnified as well as Rome.
Rainoldes. Yet a Council made them in Constantinople, cwith credit of a general. And fthe next general Council did confirm them. Which thereby disproved the Popes supremacy too. Yea, again gthe next defined of the Pope, as of other Patriarchs: and that upon the ground of the famous Nicene. To be short, the visible Monarchy of the Church was never allowed to him by any Council, general, or provincial: until the East Churches were rent from the West, and the Italian faction did bear the sway in Councils.
Rainoldes. Yet a Councell made them in Constantinople, cwith credit of a generall. And fthe next generall Councell did confirme them. Which thereby disproued the Popes supremacie too. Yea, againe gthe next defined of the Pope, as of other Patriarkes: and that vpon the ground of the famous Nicen. To be short, the visible Monarchie of the Church was neuer allowed to him by any Councell, generall, or prouinciall: vntil the East Churches were rent from the West, and the Italian faction did beare the sway in Councels.
cPraefat. synod. in Trullo ad Justinian.Praefat. synod. in Trullo ad Iustinian.
Hart. What mean you to say so? whereas hthe Council of Lateran under Innocentius did approve it flatly: the Patriarchs of the Churches of Constantinople and Jerusalem being present.
Hart. What meane you to say so? wheras hthe Councell of Lateran vnder Innocētius did approue it flatly: the Patriarks of the Churches of Constantinople and Ierusalem being present.
Rainoldes. Not the right Patriarchs, iI trow. Though if they had been: yet might the Italians make decrees in Lateran at Rome without them. But nether did that Council approve the Popes Monarchy. For the Popes Monarchy is a full and absolute sovereignty of power over the whole Church. Whereupon kthe principal proctors of it teach, that not a general Council is above the Pope, but the Pope above the Council. For lthey (saith Father mRobert) who hold that the Council is above the Pope; do make him like a Duke of Venice: above every magistrate and senator in several, not above the whole Senate. But he is above the whole Church absolutely, and above the general Council: so that he acknowledgeth no judge on earth above him. Now, the sovereignty of ordinary power given to the Pope over all Churches by the Council of Lateran under Innocentius, was but as it were a Dukedom of Venice: over every Church and Bishop in several, not over the whole Church. A signory of great state: but not a Popes Monarchy. His Monarchy was neither allowed by that Council, nor by any other for many ages after: nay, it was condemned expressly by the Council of nConstance, ⟨p. 666⟩& of oBasil. The first, that allowed it, was the pCouncil of Lateran under Leo the tenth: a thousand five hundred and sixteen years after Christ.
Rainoldes. Not the right Patriarkes, iI trow. Though if they had bene: yet might the Italians make decrées in Lateran at Rome without them. But nether did that Councell approue the Popes Monarchie. For the Popes Monarchie is a full and absolute soueraintie of power ouer the whole Church. Wherevpon kthe principall proctours of it teach, that not a generall Councell is aboue the Pope, but the Pope aboue the Coūcel. For lthey (sayth Father mRobert) who hold that the Councel is aboue the Pope; do make him like a Duke of Venice: aboue euery magistrate and senatour in seuerall, not aboue the whole Senate. But he is aboue the whole Church absolutely, and aboue the generall Councell: so that he acknowledgeth no iudge on earth aboue him. Now, the soueraintie of ordinarie power geuen to the Pope ouer all Churches by the Councell of Lateran vnder Innocentius, was but as it were a Dukedome of Venice: ouer euery Church and Bishop in seuerall, not ouer the whole Church. A signorie of great state: but not a Popes Monarchie. His Monarchie was neyther allowed by that Councell, nor by any other for many ages after: nay, it was condemned expresly by the Councell of nConstance, ⟨p. 666⟩& of oBasil. The first, that allowed it, was the pCouncell of Lateran vnder Leo the tenth: a thousand fyue hundred and syxtéene yeres after Christ.
iThe Pope mad• Latin Prelates Patriarchs of Constantinople, against the r••ht Greek ones. Concil. Florent. Sess. ult.The Pope mad• Latin Prelates Patria•kes of Constantinople, against the r••ht Greeke ones. Concil. Florent. Sess. vlt.
kPope Paschal the second. c. Significasti. de electione. Pope Pius the second. Epist. 400. Turrecremata. Summ. de eccle. l. 3. c. 46. Sander. de visib. Monarch. eccle. lib. 7. •o•rensis de autorit. summ. Pont. supra Concilia. Stapleton. Princip doctr. lib. 13. cap. 15. The Schoolmen commonly, in 4. sentent. dist. 19. And almost all the Cano•istes▪ in c. Significas•i. de elect. c. Si Papa. Dist 40.Pope Paschal the secōd. c. Significasti. de electione. Pope Pius the second. Epist. 400. Turrecremata. Summ. de eccle. l. 3. c. 46. Sander. de visib. Monarch. eccle. lib. 7. •o•rensis de autorit. summ. Pont. supra Concilia. Stapleton. Princip doctr. lib. 13. cap. 15. The Schoolemen commonly, in 4. sentent. dist. 19. And almost all the Cano•istes▪ in c. Significas•i. de elect. c. Si Papa. Dist 40.
lGersen & Almain tractat. de po•est. ecclesiae. Cusan us de concordant. cathol. lib. 2. cap. ult. […] in c. sig•i•icasti de elect.Gersen & Almain tractat. de po•est. ecclesiae. Cusan us de concordant. cathol. lib. 2. cap. vlt. 〈…〉 in c. sig•i•icasti de elect.
Rainoldes. But in such sort, that ryour Roman reader, though making the most thereof for the Popes credit, was fain• yet to say, that the Council of Florence did not define it so expressly. In truth sthe Greek Bishops answered of themselves, for they might not treat thereof without consent (they said) of their whole Church, but of themselves they answered, that the Pope ought to have the same prerogatives, that he had before the time of their dissension. Which is a great presumption, that when they subscribed to more then the same, it was not of themselves. Chiefly sith 1they came besides so constrainedly to that which they did, and 2refused to obey the Pope when they had done it. But Leo the tenth with his Italian faction in Lateran defined it. From whom tthe University of Paris appealed straight to a Council; and condemned his Lateran doctrine and decree: as uthe Universities of L•uan, of Cologne, xof Vienna, and of yCracovia had done before also. The consent therefore of Pastors and Doctors throughout all Christendom hath disallowed the Popes Monarchy. And that which the Pastors and Doctors delivered was the religion of their Churches. Whereby you may see the truth of that I said, that, except the crew of the Italian faction, all Christian Churches have condemned his usurped sovereignty.
Rainoldes. But in such sort, that ryour Roman reader, though making the most thereof for the Popes credit, was fain• yet to say, that the Councel of Florence did not define it so expressely. In truth sthe Greeke Bishops answered of themselues, for they might not treate thereof without consent (they sayd) of their whole Church, but of themselues they answered, that the Pope ought to haue the same prerogatiues, that he had before the time of their dissension. Which is a great presumption, that when they subscribed to more then the same, it was not of themselues. Chiefly sith 1they came besides so constrainedly to that which they did, and 2refused to obey the Pope when they had done it. But Leo the tenth with his Italian faction in Lateran defined it. From whom tthe Uniuersitie of Parise appealed straight to a Councell; and condemned his Lateran doctrine and decrée: as uthe Uniuersities of L•uan, of Coolein, xof Vienna, and of yCracouia had done before also. The consent therefore of Pastours and Doctours throughout all Christendome hath disallowed the Popes Monarchie. And that which the Pastours and Doctors deliuered was the religion of their Churches. Whereby you may sée the truth of that I sayd, that, except the crew of the Italian faction, all Christian Churches haue condemned his vsurped soueraintie.
1Upon their Emperors importunity▪ and danger of their S•ate.Vpon their Emperours importun•tie▪ and danger of t•eir S•ate.
2Both presently there, in choosing a new Patriarch: & after when they were returned into their country.Both presently there, in choosing a new Patriarke: & after when they were returned into their countr•y.
tAppellat. Universit. Parisien•is a Leone decimo ad futurū Concilium. In f•scic. rerum expetend. & fugicad.Appellat. Vniuersit. Parisien•is a Leone decimo ad futurū Concilium. In f•scic. rerum expetend. & fugicad.
uAen. Silu de g•stis Basil. Co••il. lib 1.
x•i•tor. de Europa, cap. 22.
y••omer. de […] Polonor. lib. 21.••omer. de 〈…〉 Polonor. lib. 21.
Hart. Truly (I must confess) I see more probability on your side then I did. But in that you said that all Christian Churches have condemned it, and do till this day, you forgot your self, who granted zbefore, that by the Trent-doctrine the Pope is above the Council. For the doctrine agreed on by the Council of Trent (which you call the of Trent-doctrine) is held by Catholic Christians through the whole Church at this day.
Hart. Truly (I must confesse) I sée more probabilitie on your side then I did. But in that you said that all Christian Churches haue condemned it, and doe till this day, you forgot your selfe, who granted zbefore, that by the Trent-doctrine the Pope is aboue the Councell. For the doctrine agreed on by the Councell of Trent (which you call the of Trent-doctrine) is held by Catholike Christians through the whole Church at this day.
Rainoldes. I said, that all Christian Churches have condemned it, and do, except the crew of the Italian faction. Which speech agreeth well with that I said before of the Council Trent. For the aTrent-doctrine of the Popes supremacy, ⟨p. 667⟩is that which the Italian faction at Trent did overbear the rest in. As bClaudius Espencaeus, a Divine of Paris, a Doctor of your own witnesseth: saying, that Ludovicus the Cardinal of Arle did complain justly at the Council of Basil, that look what 3the Italian nation liketh of, that is decreed in Councils; & 4this is that Helena which did prevail of late at Trent. Now, that which the Cardinal Ludovicus spake of, was, cthat in Councils not only Bishops but Elders too should have voices, as of old dtime they had: for 5if Bishops only have voices, (saith the Cardinal) then shall that be done that shall seem good to the Italian nation, which alone hath ether mo Bishops, or as many, as all other nations have. For every baggage-town hath a Bishop there. And these baggage-Bishops, *of whom there were more at the Council of Trent then of all other nations, did allow that doctrine. Though neither they perhaps allowed it in hart, but were induced by Papal means to yield unto it. For ethe answer of Vargas touching the Popes supremacy, (made at Rome, and published, for instruction of the Council assembled then at Trent) doth show that fthere was some sticking at the matter. And your gstories note, that the Pope is foully afraid of general Councils, least they should hurt his State: and cometh like a bear to the stake (as they say) when he is drawn to summon them. What ha do was made before he could be brought to grant that the Council of Trent should go forward? And iwhile the Council lasted, he kept good rule at Rome: but brake loose when it was ended. Besides, it being ended twenty years ago, there hath been none since: nether (I believe) is like to be in hast. Where yet there should be one 6every ten years, by ktheir own decree. All evident tokens, that the Pope himself doth think that Bishops under him like not his supremacy: and would cut it shorter if they might have power and authority to do it. Which if they would do, though being lsworn to maintain it; yea, and to maintain the reservations, the provisions, & other excesses of it: is it not manifest that they disallow it, or detest it rather?
Rainoldes. I said, that all Christian Churches haue condemned it, and doe, except the crew of the Italian faction. Which spéeche agréeth well with that I said before of the Councell Trent. For the aTrent-doctrine of the Popes supremacie, ⟨p. 667⟩is that which the Italian faction at Trent did ouerbea•e the rest in. As bClaudius Espencaeus, a Diuine of Parise, a Doctour of your own witnesseth: saying, that Ludouicus the Cardinall of Arle did complaine iustly at the Councell of Basil, that looke what 3the Italian nation liketh of, that is decreed in Councels; & 4this is that Helena which did preuaile of late at Trent. Now, that which the Cardinal Ludouicus spake of, was, cthat in Councels not only Bishops but Elders too should haue voices, as of old dtime they had: for 5if Bishops only haue voices, (sayth the Cardinall) then shal that be done that shall seeme good to the Italian nation, which alone hath ether mo Bishops, or as many, as al other nations haue. For euery baggage-towne hath a Bishop there. And these buggage-Bishops, *of whom there were more at the Councell of Trent then of all other nations, did allow that doctrine. Though neyther they perhaps allowed it in hart, but were induced by Papall meanes to yéeld vnto it. For ethe answere of Vargas touching the Popes supremacie, (made at Rome, and published, for instruction of the Councell assembled then at Trent) doth shew that fthere was some sticking at the matter. And your gstories note, that the Pope is fowly afraide of general Councels, leaft they should hurt his State: and commeth like a beare to the stake (as they say) when he is drawne to summon them. What
a•ess. 7. de reformat. In pro•mio. & Sess. 14 cap. 7. & Sess. 25. de re•rm. •. cap. ult.•ess. 7. de reformat. In pro•mio. & Sess. 14 cap. 7. & Sess. 25. de re•rm. •. cap. vlt.
bCommentar. in Epist. ad litum ca•. •.
3[…] Italicae〈…〉 Italicae
4[…] est illa Helena quae […] n•per obtinuit.〈…〉 est illa Helena quae 〈…〉 n•per obtinuit.
cAen. Silu. de gestis Basil. Con cil. lib. 1.Aen. Silu. de gestis Basil. Cō cil. lib. 1.
5Si solely episcopi vocem habeant, id demum fiet quod nationi placebit Italicae, quae so•a n• tiones alias in numero episcoporum a•t superat aut aequat.Si soli episcopi vocem habeant, id demum fiet quod nationi placebit Italicae, quae so•a n• tiones alias in numero episcoporum at superat aut aequat.
Hart. Our ancestors allowed it ever since the time that by S. Gregory's means they were first converted to the faith of ⟨p. 668⟩Christ, till King Harries days, when heresy did root it out.
Hart. Our ancestours allowed it euer since the time that by S. Gregories meanes they were first conuerted to the fayth of ⟨p. 668⟩Christ, till King Harries dayes, when heresie did roote it out.
Rainoldes. Our ancestors had a reverent opinion of the Pope, long after S. Gregory, for S. Gregory's sake: and honoured him above all Bishops. But when he began to reach out the paws of his supremacy over them, in giving Church-livings▪ and handling Church-causes, and executing Church-censures: they were so far from liking it, that mthey made laws against it two hundred years ago. Even in Queen Mary's time, when they restored that stomp of his usurped power which they had rooted out under King Henry the eighth: nthey provided that he should have no more but that stomp, & kept the former laws in force against him still. Wherefore though our ancestors gave him great preeminence of honour, some of power too: yet the most they gave him was but a Venice-Dukedom; his Monarchy they never allowed to this day. Which may be said likewise of other Christian Churches that honoured him on like occasion: as our neighbours of oFrance, & pGermany. For each of them showed their mislike and hatred of the Popes supremacy, by supplications & complaints offered to their Princes. Yea, qFrance made laws against it: which might have continued; had not rthe Gentiles raged & broken the bands a sunder. And these, of whose judgements I have spoken hitherto, are such as your selves do hold for Catholic Christians. The rest, Christians also, though you call them heretics, and schismatics, yet Christians, the Churches of sGreece and Asia, in the East; in the North, of tMuscovy; in the South of uEthiopia; in the West, of xBohemia, yProvince, zPiedmont heretofore, & athe reformed Churches that are at this day in England, Scotland, France, Germany, Flanders, Switzerland, and so forth throughout Europe, set less by the Pope then the former did. That I might say justly, that, except the crew of the Italian faction, (wherein I comprehend the Jesuits, and their complices, men Italianate,) all Christian Churches have condemned the Popes supremacy, & do till this day. Wherefore if the matter were to be tried by the will of men: so many thousands of them, Pastors and Doctors, Synods and Councils, Universities and Churches, through all ages, in all countries, of all sorts, and states, might suffice to put the Pope from his supremacy. At least they might make you to blush, M.
Rainoldes. Our ancestours had a reuerent opinion of the Pope, long after S. Gregorie, for S. Gregories sake: and honoured him aboue all Bishops. But when he began to reach out the pawes of his supremacie ouer thē, in giuing Church-liuings▪ and handling Church-causes, and executing Church-censures: they were so farre frō liking it, that mthey made lawes against it two hundred yeres ago. Euen in Queene Maries time, when they restored that stoompe of his vsurped power which they had rooted out vnder King Henrie the eigth: nthey prouided that hée should haue no more but that stoompe, & kept the former lawes in force against him still. Wherefore though our auncestours gaue him great preeminence of honour, some of power too: yet the most they gaue him was but a Venice-Dukedome; his Monarchie they neuer allowed to this day. Which may bée sayd likewise of other Christian Churches that honoured him on like occcasiō: as our neighbours of oFraunce, & pGermanie. For ech of them shewed their mislike and hatred of the Popes supremacie, by supplications & complaints offered to their Princes. Yea, qFraunce made lawes against it: which might haue continued; had not rthe Gentiles raged & broken the bands a sunder. And these, of whose iudgements I haue spoken hitherto, are such as your selues doe holde for Catholike Christians. The rest, Christians also, though you cal them heretikes, and schismatikes, yet Christians, the Churches of sGreece and Asia, in the East; in the North, of tMoscouie; in the South of uAethiopia; in the West, of xBoheme, yProuince,
mPolydor. virg. […]. Ang. lib. 19. & 20. in Edovardo te•t. & Ricardo second.Polydor. virg. 〈…〉. Ang. lib. 19. & 20. in Edouardo te•t. & Ricardo secūd.
n1. & 2. Philip. & Mariae cap. 8.
oAd Zudovicū undecim. pro libbest. eccles. Gall aduers. Rom. aulam defensio Parisiensis curiae.Ad Zudouicū vndecim. pro libe•t. eccles. Gall aduers. Rom. aulam defensio Parisiensis curiae.
pGra••mina nationis German. & sacri Ro•an. Imperij dece•: exhibi•a Maximiliano primo.
qIn conuentu Litu•ice•si.
rConcil. Lateran. sub Leon. decim. Sess. 11. Concordata cum Rege Franciae.
sChalcocond. de reb. •ure. lib. 1. & 6.
tJovius in Muscovy.Iouius in Moscoui•.
uAlvarez in descript. Ethiop. cap. 77. & •3.Aluarez in descript. A•th•op. cap. 77. & •3.
Hart, who have said in bwriting, that all men did ⟨p. 669⟩grant it him without resistance, & it was never denied him. But sith it must be tried by the word of God, and it is not written in the book of life. I conclude, that it is not a citizen of Jerusalem, but a child of Babylon, which they shall be blessed who dash against the stones. And thus have I showed that the former point, on which you refuse to communicate with us in prayers and religion, ought to bring you rather to us, then draw you from us. It remaineth now that we sift the later: of the faith professed in the Church of England. Which if it be found to be the Catholic faith, as in truth it will: then is there no cause but you must needs yield, that we may go together into the house of the Lord.
Hart, who haue sayd in bwriting, that all men did ⟨p. 669⟩grant it him without resistance, & it was neuer denied him. But sith it must be tried by the word of God, and it is not writen in the booke of life. I conclude, that it is not a citizen of Ierusalem, but a child of Babylon, which they shall be blessed who dash against the stones. And thus haue I shewed that the former point, on which you refuse to communicate with vs in prayers and religion, ought to bring you rather to vs, then draw you from vs. It remaineth now that we sift the later: of the faith professed in the Church of England. Which if it be found to be the Catholike faith, as in truth it will: then is there no cause but you must néedes yéeld, that we may go together into the house of the Lord.
The tenth Chapter. 1 Princes are supreme governors of their subjects in things spiritual, and temporal: and so is the oath of their supremacy lawful. 2 The breaking of the conference off, M. Hart refusing to proceed farther in it.
The tenth Chapter. 1 Princes are supreme gouernours of their subiects in things spirituall, and temporall: and so is the othe of their supremacie lawfull. 2 The breaking of the conference off, M. Hart refusing to proceede farther in it.
Rainoldes. The supremacy, which we take from the Pope, M. Hart, we give to no mortal creature, Prince, nor other. But the Pope having seized on part of Christs right, part of Princes, part of Bishops, part of peoples & Churches; as the chough (in Aesop) did trick up himself with the feathers of other birds: the feather, which the Romish chough had of our Princes, we have taken from him, and given it to her Majesty to whom it belonged; according to the lesson of our heavenly Master, aGive to Caesar the things which are Caesars, and to God the things which are Gods.
Rainoldes. The supremacie, which we take from the Pope, M. Hart, we giue to no mortall creature, Prince, nor other. But the Pope hauing seazed on part of Christs right, part of Princes, part of Bishops, part of peoples & Churches; as the chough (in Aesope) did trick vp himselfe with the feathers of other birdes: the feather, which the Romish chough had of our Princes, we haue taken from him, and geuen it to her Maiestie to whom it belonged; according to the lesson of our heauenly Master, aGeue to Caesar the thinges which are Caesars, and to God the things which are Gods.
while the Councell lasted, he kept good rule at Rome: but brake loose whē it was ended. Besides, it being ended twentie yeares ago, there hath bene none since: nether (I beléeue) is like to be in hast. Where yet there should be one
their own decrée. All euident tokens, that the Pope himselfe doth thinke that Bishops vnder him like not his supremacie: and would cut it shorter if they might haue power and autoritie to do it. Which if they would do, though being
sworne to maintaine it; yea, and to maintaine the reseruations, the prouisions, & other excesses of it: is it not manifest that they disallow it, or detest it rather?
•
*There were almost two hundred Italian Prelates there: of all other nations not a hundred. Concil. Trident. excus▪ a Plantin. in numer. P•• lator. qui ad Trident. Synod. conuene•u••.There were almost two hundred Italiā Prelates there: of all other nations not a hundred. Concil. Trident. excus▪ a Plantin. in numer. P•• lator. qui ad Trident. Synod. conuene•u••.
eResponsum Franci••• Vargas de episcoporum jurisdict. & Pont Max. autorit.Responsum Franci••• Vargas de episcoporum iurisdict. & Pont Max. autorit.
fPauli Manut. praes. ad Respō sum Fr. VargasPauli Manut. praes. ad Respō sum Fr. Vargas
gGui••iardin. hist. Ital. lib. 9. & 20. Jovius. hist. sui temporis lib. 2.Gui••iardin. hist. Ital. lib. 9. & 20. Iouius. hist. sui temporis lib. 2.
hAs Espencaeus showeth, Comment. in epist. ad Titum. cap. 1.As Espencaeus sheweth, Comment. in epist. ad Titum. cap. 1.
iAs Onuphrius saith, Vita Pij quart. in vit. Pont. adiect. ad Platin.As Onuphrius sayth, Vita Pij quart. in vit. Pont. adiect. ad Platin.
6De decennio in decennium perpetuo.
kConcil. Constantiens. Sess. 39. c. Frequens.
lFormaiuram. praestand. ab episcopo elect. in Pontificali Rom. part. 1.
the reformed Churches that are at this day in England, Scotland, Fraunce, Germanie, Flaunders, Suitzerland, and so foorth throughout Europe, set lesse by the Pope then the former did. That I might say iustly, that, except the crew of the Italian factiō, (wherein I comprehend the Iesuites, and their complices, men Italianate,) al Christian Churches haue condemned the Popes supremacie, & do till this day. Wherefore if the matter were to be tried by the will of men: so many thousandes of them, Pastours and Doctours, Synodes and Coūcels, Uniuersities and Churches, through all ages, in all countries, of al sorts, and states, might suffice to put the Pope from his supremacie. At least they might make you to blush, M.
