The sum of the conference between John Rainoldes and John Hart touching the head…The summe of the conference betwene Iohn Rainoldes and Iohn Hart touching the head…
The sum of the conference between John Rainoldes and John Hart touching the head and the faith of the Church. Wherein by the way are handled sundry points, of the sufficiency and right expounding of the Scriptures, the ministry of the Church, the function of priesthood, the sacrifice of the mass, with other controversies of religion: but chiefly and purposely the point of Church-government ... Penned by John Rainoldes, according to the notes set down in writing by them both: perused by John Hart, and (after things supplied, & altered, as he thought good) allowed for the faithful report of that which past in conference between them. Whereunto is annexed a treatise entitled, Six conclusions touching the Holy Scripture and the Church, written by John Rainoldes. With a defence of such things as Thomas Stapleton and Gregory Martin have carped at therein.The summe of the conference betwene Iohn Rainoldes and Iohn Hart touching the head and the faith of the Church. Wherein by the way are handled sundrie points, of the sufficiencie and right expounding of the Scriptures, the ministerie of the Church, the function of priesthood, the sacrifice of the masse, with other controuerises of religion: but chiefly and purposely the point of Church-gouernment ... Penned by Iohn Rainoldes, according to the notes set downe in writing by them both: perused by Iohn Hart, and (after things supplied, & altered, as he thought good) allowed for the faithfull report of that which past in conference betwene them. Whereunto is annexed a treatise intitled, Six conclusions touching the Holie Scripture and the Church, writen by Iohn Rainoldes. With a defence of such thinges as Thomas Stapleton and Gregorie Martin haue carped at therein.
John Rainolds 1549–1607Londini: printed by John Wolfe, 1584Londini: printed by Iohn Wolfe, 1584
475, [1], 479-674, 659-750 p. · 304k words · STC 20626 · ESTC S115546
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
Hart. You may say what you list. But experience showeth, and it is most certain, that many who allow those means, which you do, and expound the scripture by them, are themselves deceived, and deceive others. For, *the conference of places by which you set more then by all the rest, which you call a great remedy, and the best exposition of scripture that may be had: let this remedy be taken severally and by it self, it is marvellous ⟨p. 95⟩deceitful, yea pernicious and pestilent; so much the more, by how much (in show) it is more probable, and still at least corrupteth two places of scripture, if it be used perversely. In deed, we acknowledge gladly with S. Austin, that place receiveth light of place, and those things which one-where are spoken somewhat darkly, are other-where more clearly uttered. But in conference of scriptures it is to be known and diligently marked, *(which heretics will not mark, because they will not be catholics, and good children of the church:) first, that one saying may seem to be like or unlike an other, not so much for the likeness and unlikeness of things, as for the prejudice and affection of them by whom they are conferred. Secondly, that the same word, or kind of speech, hath not every where the same signification, but sometimes diverse, sometimes contrary. Thirdly, that there are many places in the scripture, which being uttered only once, have not any like wherewith you may confer them. Fourthly, and lastly, that all heretics both of this and of all ages, *in conferring the scriptures most diligently together, yet have erred in the sense of the scriptures most shamefully. Which reasons why the conference of places of scripture is a deceitful means of expounding the scripture, and leadeth often into error: D. Stapleton, a man well learned out of question, how weak soever you account him, hath set down and proved them with such examples, as might prevail with you perhaps, if you would weigh them.
Hart. You may say what you list. But experience sheweth, and it is most certaine, that manye who allow those meanes, which you do, and expound the scripture by them, are themselues deceiued, and deceiue others. For,
the conference of places by which you set more then by all the rest, which you call a great remedy, and the best exposition of scripture that may be had: let this remedy be taken seuerally and by it selfe, it is marueilous
⟨p. 95⟩
deceitfull, yea pernicious and pestilent; so much the more, by how much (in shew) it is more probable, and still at least corrupteth two places of scripture, if it be vsed peruersly. In deede, we acknowledge gladly with S. Austin, that place receiueth light of place, and those thinges which one-where are spoken somewhat darkely, are other-where more cleerely vttered. But in conference of scriptures it is to be knowne and diligently marked,
(which heretikes will not marke, because they will not be catholikes, and good children of the church:) first, that one saying may seeme to be like or vnlike an other, not so much for the likenes and vnlikenes of thinges, as for the preiudice and affection of them by whom they are conferred. Secondly, that the same word, or kind of spéech, hath not euery where the same signification, but sometimes diuerse, sometimes contrarie. Thirdly, that there are many places in the scripture, which being vttered only once, haue not any like wherwith you may confer them. Fourthly, and lastly, that all heretikes both of this and of all ages,
in conferring the scriptures most diligently togither, yet haue erred in the sense of the scriptures most shamefully. Which reasons why the conference of places of scripture is a deceitfull meanes of expounding the scripture, and leadeth often into errour: D. Stapleton, a man well learned out of question, how weake soeuer you account him, hath set downe and proued them with such examples, as might preuaile with you perhaps, if you would weigh them.
*Staplet. prin. doctr. lib. 11. cap. 10.
*Quod obseruare haeretici nolunt, quia catholici & boni ecclesiae •ilii esse nolunt.
*Conferendo scripturas diligentissimé, erraverunt tamen in Scripturarum sensu turpissimé.Conferendo scripturas diligentissimé, errauerunt tamen in Scripturarum sensu turpissimé.
Rainoldes. I have weighed them, and I find them to light. The merchant, whom you praise, is rich, I deny not: but sure he useth false weights, and abuseth the simple, who take their wares upon his credit. Poor men, conceiving well of them whom they fancy, think him to deal uprightly for that he raileth at others, saying that they are deceivers, because they will not be honest dealers, and good children of the weal public. But let his words go: and have an eye to his weights. If you should tell a young beginner in shooting that they who look at the mark and louse directly towards it do not always hit it: your speech were a truth. But if you should say that all naughty archers which are, or ever were, have foully missed the mark in aiming at it most straightly: he might suspect either your skill, or your will, who train up archers so. What may we think then of him ⟨p. 96⟩who to persuade men that conference of scriptures is a deceitful way to hit their right sense, doth say that all heretics both of this and of all ages, in conferring the scriptures most diligently together yet have erred in the sense of the scriptures most shamefully? For though they might err in conferring of them: yet the fault thereof must be, not in conferring them most diligently, but in not conferring them diligently enough. And this is the last of your Doctors reasons. The next before it is no better. He saith, that there are many places in the scripture, which have not any like wherewith you may confer them. The proof he bringeth of it, is, that there are sundry speeches in S. Paul, which are in no Prophet, nor Apostle beside him: as (for example sake) to put of the old man, and put on the new. Which proof is like the point whereof it maketh proof. For, if the same speeches be not in any other, yet there are speeches like them, whereby they may be understood. Or, if not in others: yet in S. Paul himself, who lighteneth so his own speeches. Or, if not in him: yet confer them with the drift and circumstances of the text; the course of things and words will open what is meant by them. And so allege what place of scripture you list, the darkest that you can: let a man expound it after our rules, and it will never lead him into heresy. For either it hath plain places to expound it, and being expounded according unto them, it is far from heresy:
Rainoldes. I haue weighed them, and I find them to light. The marchant, whom you praise, is rich, I denie not: but sure he vseth false weights, and abuseth the simple, who take their wares vpon his credit. Poore men, conceiuing well of them whom they fansie, thinke him to deale vprightly for that he raileth at others, saying that they are deceauers, because they will not be honest dealers, and good children of the weale publike. But let his words go: and haue an eie to his weights. If you shoulde tell a yoong beginner in shooting that they who looke at the marke and louse directly towards it do not alwaies hit it: your speech were a truth. But if you should say that all naughtie archers which are, or euer were, haue fowlly missed the marke in aiming at it most straightly: he might suspect either your skill, or your will, who traine vp archers so. What may we thinke then of him ⟨p. 96⟩who to perswade men that conference of scriptures is a deceitfull way to hit their right sense, doth say that all heretikes both of this and of all ages, in conferring the scriptures most diligently togither yet haue erred in the sense of the scriptures most shamefully? For though they might erre in conferring of them: yet the fault thereof must be, not in conferring them most diligently, but in not conferring them diligently enough. And this is the last of your Doctors reasons. The next before it is no better. He saith, that there are many places in the scripture, which haue not any like wherewith you may conferre them. The proofe he bringeth of it, is, that there are sundry speeches in S. Paule, which are in no Prophet, nor Apostle beside him: as (for example sake) to put of the olde man, and put on the newe. Which proofe is like the point whereof it maketh proofe. For, if the same speeches be not in any other, yet there are speeches lyke them, whereby they may be vnderstood. Or, if not in others: yet in S. Paule himselfe, who lightneth so his owne speeches. Or, if not in him: yet conferre them with the drift and circumstances of the text; the course of thinges and wordes will open what is meant by them. And so alleage what place of scripture you list, the darkest that you can: let a man expound it after our rules, and it will neuer leade him into heresie. For either it hath plaine places to expound it, and being expounded according vnto them, it is farre from heresie:
or if it have no such, it hath no danger of heresy, because all things required to belief and life are set down plainly in the Scriptures. The danger all lieth in your first and second point: the one, touching sayings, that mens corrupt affections may judge unlike or like, when in truth they are not so: the other touching words, that may be mistaken through mens oversights, as signifying the same thing, or sundry, which they do not. And by these means we grant that the scriptures, may be (and are of many) expounded amiss: to the verifying of that which S. 1Peter writeth of S. Pauls epistles, that in them are some things hard to be understood: which they that are unlearned and unstable do pervert, as they do also other scriptures, to their own destruction. Hereof we have notable examples in your selves: or (because of yours we shall speak hereafter) in the Family of love, and that imp of Satan, their master, Harry Nicolas. Whom the spirit of error ⟨p. 97⟩hath (through an illusion of ignorance) so bewitched, that, as though he took a glory in his shame, to be him self, and his, unlearned, (such as S. Peter pointeth at,) uhe detesteth the learned and skilful in the scripture, the scripture-wise, as he termeth them, and giveth it in charge to his babes to shun them. Christ was too skilful in scriptures for the Devil. Else might xthe Devil, by the show of scripture, which he did allege (or misallege rather) have persevered with greater hope in tempting Christ. But shall we suspect and mislike the scripture, because he misalleged it? or the conference of scripture, because his imps use it perversely? We have not learned Christ so. Nay, so much the more should we labour and travail to search it most diligently, and wisely to confer it: to wrest by that means their sword out of their hands, and kill their own error with it. For, the destruction of such spiritual foes, is the sword of the spirit: and ythe sword of the spirit, is the word of God. So the Family of love, which make a mock of our faith, our salvation by Christ, our resurrection, the judgement, and everlasting life; and (to save their frenzies from danger of the scripture) beat flat the literal sense, which is the edge of it, and put it up into a scabbard of their fanatical dreams and allegories:
or if it haue no such, it hath no danger of heresie, because all things required to beliefe and life are set downe plainely in the Scriptures. The daunger all lyeth in your first and second point: ye one, touching sayinges, that mens corrupt affections may iudge vnlike or like, when in truth they are not so: the other touching wordes, that may bee mistaken through mens ouersightes, as signifying the same thing, or sundry, which they do not. And by these meanes we grant that the scriptures, may be (and are of many) expounded amisse: to the verifying of that which S. 1Peter writeth of S. Paules epistles, that in them are some thinges hard to be vnderstood: which they that are vnlearned and vnstable do peruert, as they doo also other scriptures, to their owne destruction. Hereof wee haue notable examples in your selues: or (because of yours wee shall speake hereafter) in the Familie of loue, and that ympe of Satan, their maister, Harry Nicolas. Whom the spirite of errour ⟨p. 97⟩hath (through an illusion of ignorance) so bewitched, that, as though he tooke a glorie in his shame, to be him selfe, and his, vnlearned, (such as S. Peter pointeth at,) uhe detesteth the learned and skilfull in the scripture, the scripture-wise, as he termeth thē, and giueth it in charge to his babes to shunne them. Christ was too skilfull in scriptures for the Deuill. Else might xthe Deuil, by the shew of scripture, which he did alleage (or missealleage rather) haue perseuered with greater hope in tempting Christ. But shall we suspect and mislike the scripture, because hee missealleaged it? or the conference of scripture, because his ympes vse it peruersely? We haue not learned Christ so. Nay, so much the more should we labour and trauaile to search it most diligently, and wisely to conferre it: to wrest by that meanes their sword out of their handes, and kill their owne errour with it. For, the destruction of such spirituall foes, is the sword of the spirite: and ythe sword of the spirite, is the word of God. So the Familie of loue, which make a mocke of our faith, our saluatiō by Christ, our resurrection, the iudgement, and euerlasting life; and (to saue their frensies from daunger of the scripture) beate flatte the literall sense, which is the edge of it, and put it vp into a scabberd of their fanaticall dreames and allegories:
1Pet. 3.16.
uIn the gospel of the kingdom, cap 23.6 & 33.11. and so forth in that, and the rest of his pamphlets.In the gospell of the kingdome, cap 23.6 & 33.11. and so forth in that, and the rest of his pamphlets.
let zthe two edged sword be drawn out and sharpened with this conference, and, as the flame of fire devoureth the stubble, so will the point of truth rip up the bowels of their errors. So the Arians, when they brought broken sentences of scripture, in show resembling somewhat their blasphemous doctrine against the son of God, but indeed unlike it: they were overthrown through the conference of ascriptures by the Nicene council and bgodly pastors of the church. So the Pelagians, the enemies of grace under the name of nature, when they trifled vainly to shift the scriptures off, which make against the free-will of man for Gods favour: they were put to flight with plainer places of the scriptures, by the Councils of cCarthage, of dMilevis, of eOrange, and chiefly by S. fAustin. So hath God confounded others of that rabble, & will (no doubt) their complices: if with the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God, we join the gshield of faith to quench the fiery darts of Satan. The Family of love shall feel it in time; the Father of the Family feared it: and therefore he warned his children to beware of them who bear ⟨p. 98⟩this weapon, and have skill to handle it, of scripture-learned men. And you, hwho lay the Families sin to our charge, as though we did foster that venomous vipers brood, do join your selves to them, and march into the field with them, and strengthen their hands against us. Of you they have learned to take up the name of iScripturemen by way of scoff, and use it as a contumely. You teach them, that kthe diligent, yea the most diligent conference of scriptures, is the path of heretics to most damnable errors. You persuade them that lthe fountains of the Greek and Hebrew text, are neither pure, nor greatly needful. You tell them that mto expound the scripture by scripture is good, and it is fruitful to confer places, to observe the words and circumstances of the text: but there are many dangers and difficulties in it; the text is not always knit and coherent to it self; the very order of speaking is oftentimes abrupt, sometimes preposterous altogether; there are sundry *hyperbata and *anantapodota in S. Paul; one word, yea in one sentence hath sundry significations: places may seem like one to an other, that are unlike, and contrariwise: and many mo such inconveniences, enough to break the hart of a weak Christian.
let zthe two edged sword be drawne out and sharpned with this conference, and, as the flame of fire deuoureth the stubble, so will the point of truth rippe vp the bowels of their errours. So the Arians, when they brought broken sentences of scripture, in shew resembling somewhat their blasphemous doctrine against the sonne of God, but indeede vnlike it: they were ouerthrowne through the conference of ascriptures by the Nicen councell and bgodly pastors of the church. So the Pelagians, the enimies of grace vnder the name of nature, when they trifled vainely to shift the scriptures off, which make against the frée-will of man for Gods fauour: they were put to flight with plainer places of the scriptures, by the Councels of cCarthage, of dMileuis, of eOrenge, and chiefely by S. fAustin. So hath God con•ounded others of that rable, & will (no doubt) their complices: if with the sword of the spirite, which is the word of God, wee ioine the gshield of faith to quench the fyry dartes of Satan. The Familie of loue shall feele it in time; the Father of the Familie feared it: and therefore he warned his children to beware of them who beare ⟨p. 98⟩this weapon, and haue skill to handle it, of scripture-learned men. And you, hwho lay the Families synne to our charge, as though we did foster that venemous vipers brood, do ioine your selues to them, and march into the field with them, and strengthen their handes against vs. Of you they haue learned to take vp the name of iScripturemen by way of scoffe, and vse it as a contumelie. You teach them, that k
hHowle• in his epistle to the Queens Majesty.Howle• in his epistle to the Queenes Maiestie.
i•crip•ura•ii. Albeit. Pighius ecclesiast. hiera•. l. 1. c. 2.
kStaplet. prin. doctr. l. 11. c. 10.
lLindan. de optim. gen. inte•pr. Scripture. Staplet. prin. doctr. l. 11. c. 12.Lindan. de optim. gen. inte•pr. Scriptur. Staplet. prin. doctr. l. 11. c. 12.
In the which dealing you do band your selves with the ten spies: nwho, when they should have encouraged the people of Israel to enter into the land of promise, they told them that the land certainly is good, and floweth with milk and honey; but the people dwelling in it, is strong, and the cities walled, exceeding great, and the sons of Anak (Giants) be there. The Amalekites dwell in the south country; the Hittites, and Jebusites, and Amorites dwell in the mountains: the Canaanites dwell by the sea, and by the coast of Jordan. The oLord sware in his wrath, both to these spies, and to the people who believed them, that they should not enter into his rest. At you, and your men, I marvel, (M. Hart) that whose fact you follow, you tremble not at their end. As for us, although we were but two against your ten, and all the people would rather believe you then us: yet we will follow them who were 3of an other spirit, Caleb and Joshua, and with them will we say to the whole assembly of the children of God; pThe land, through the which we have gone to search it, is an excellent good land. If the Lord take delight in us, he will ⟨p. 99⟩bring us into this land, and give it us: even a land that floweth with milk and honey. Only rebel ye not against the Lord, neither fear ye the people of the land: for they are bread for us. In deed the holy scripture is bread for our souls: and the word of God is the food of life. If the Lord take delight in us, he will bring us unto it, and give it us. Let us not rebel against him, nor fear the hardness of it. We must qsearch the scriptures, and rpray to him for wisdom, and she will open them to us, (for he hath promised) and make us learned in them.
In the which dealing you do band your selues with the ten spies: nwho, when they should haue encouraged the people of Israell to enter into the land of promise, they tolde them that the land certainly is good, and floweth with milke and hony; but the people dwelling in it, is strong, and the cities walled, exceeding great, and the sonnes of Anak (Giants) be there. The Amalekites dwel in the south coūtrie; the Hitthites, and Iebusites, and Amorites dwell in the mountaines: the Cananites dwell by the sea, and by the coast of Iorden. The oLord sware in his wrath, both to these spies, and to the people who beléeued them, that they should not enter into his rest. At you, and your men, I maruaile, (M. Hart) that whose fact you folow, you tremble not at their end. As for vs, although we were but two against your ten, and all the people would rather beleeue you then vs: yet we will follow them who were 3of an other spirite, Caleb and Iosua, and with them will wee say to the whole assembly of the children of God; pThe land, through the which we haue gone to search it, is an excellent good land. If the Lord take delight in vs, he will ⟨p. 99⟩bring vs into this land, and giue it vs: euen a land that floweth with milke and honie. Onely rebell yee not against the Lorde, neither feare yee the people of the land: for they are bread for vs. In deede the holy scripture is bread for our soules: and the word of God is the foode of life. If the Lord take delight in vs, he will bring vs vnto it, and giue it vs. Let vs not rebell against him, nor feare the hardnes of it. We must qsearch the scriptures, and rpray to him for wisedome, and shee will open them to vs, (for he hath promised) and make vs learned in them.
Hart. We acknowledge with you *that the means you mention, namely, to search the scriptures and to pray to God for wisdom and knowledge, are good and godly means whereby we may the sooner come to understand them, or rather be prepared thereto. But such, as nevertheless are not still effectual.
Hart. We acknowledge with you *that the meanes you mention, namely, to search the scriptures and to pray to God for wisedome and knowledge, are good and godlie meanes whereby we may the sooner come to vnderstand them, or rather be prepared thereto. But such, as neuerthelesse are not still effectuall.
Hart. True, in that measure, which is fit for every mans vocation and duty: some, to exhort and comfort privately, some publicly to teach the church. But after you have said all that you can: we shall never grow to any end and issue, if we follow this way. For, if you allege the scripture against me, and I against you: if I expound it by conference of this place, and you of that: if in your opinion one sentence be plain, and in mine an other: in mine, our meaning right, and in yours the contrary: what end can our controversies have without a judge? And if you yield to a judge, who fitter for it then the Pope?
Hart. True, in that measure, which is fit for euerie mans vocation and duetie: some, to exhort and comfort priuately, some publikely to teach the church. But after you haue saide all that you can: we shall neuer grow to any ende and issue, if we folow this way. For, if you alleage the scripture against me, and I against you: if I expound it by conference of this place, and you of that: if in your opinion one sentence be plaine, and in mine an other: in mine, our meaning right, and in yours the contrarie: what ende can our controuersies haue without a iudge? And if you yéeld to a iudge, who fitter for it then the Pope?
Hart. The Church? Nay you mentioned the godly before, and spake as if they should try the truth from error, by conference of the scriptures. Which is your right kind of trial and judgement. But you are ashamed of it now belike, as in truth you may be. For you shall find many tailors and cobblers more godly then sundry more learned then they. Yet I trust you will not repair for shreds and clouts to any shop of theirs.
Hart. The Church? Nay you mentioned the godlie before, and spake as if they should trie the truth from errour, by conference of the scriptures. Which is your right kinde of triall and iudgement. But you are ashamed of it now belike, as in truth you may be. For you shall finde many taylers and coblers more godly then sundrie more learned then they. Yet I trust you will not repaire for shreddes and cloutes to any shop of theirs.
Rainoldes. Yet the shreds and clouts of tailors and cobblers ⟨p. 100⟩may have greater knowledge perhaps and better judgement of the sense of scriptures, then the scarlet gowns of learneder men then they. For the learned Pharisees, xwho condemned the people as ignorant of the law, did not judge the doctrine of Christ to be true: nay ythey rejected it as false with search, and see. But zthe men of Beroea (some of whom by likelihood were tailors, or cobblers, or at least common artificers as mean as they) areceived it with all readiness, & (upon the search of the scriptures) believed it. Howbeit when I mentioned that judgement of the godly, I meant the godly learned. Wherefore you needed not to speak of shreds and clouts, but that you were loth perhaps to leese this jest. Chiefly, sith I showed thereupon withal, that, for the trial of controversies by scripture, the tongs (in which the scripture is written) must be known, namely, Greek and Hebrew. The which shreds and clouts, neither many tailors and cobblers with us, neither many Cardinals and Popes with you have. Nor yet am I ashamed of that kind of trial and judgement by the godly who have not learned tongues, and arts, but Christ only. And I comprised it in that which I said, that Christ is the judge, and they which under him have it committed to them, even the church of Christ. For himself hath given by special commission two sorts of judgement to his church, the one private, the other public: private, to all the faithful, and bspiritual, as God calleth them, who are willed cto judge of that which is taught, and to dtry spirits whither they be of God: public, eto the assembly of pastors and elders: for fof that which Prophets teach, let Prophets judge, and gthe spirits of Prophets are subject to the Prophets. In both of the which, the church must yet remember, that God hath committed nothing but the ministry of giving judgement unto her. The sovereignty of judgement doth rest on Gods word. For Christ is 1our only Doctor & 2Lawgiver: according to whose written will the church must judge. And so,13 to return unto the words of Christ, from which we digressed: the sense (I gave of them) will I prove by scripture, according to the rule of faith: the proof of the sense I submit to the private and public judgement of the church.
Rainoldes. Yet the shreddes and cloutes of taylors and coblers ⟨p. 100⟩may haue greater knowledge perhaps and better iudgement of the sense of scriptures, then ye scarlet gownes of learneder men then they. For the learned Pharisees, xwho condemned the people as ignorant of the law, did not iudge the doctrine of Christ to be true: nay ythey reiected it as false with search, and see. But zthe men of Beroea (some of whom by likelihood were taylers, or coblers, or at least common artificers as meane as they) areceiued it with all readinesse, & (vpon the search of the scriptures) beleeued it. Howbeit when I mentioned that iudgement of the godlie, I meant the godlie learned. Wherefore you néeded not to speake of shreddes and cloutes, but that you were loth perhaps to léese this iest. Chiefly, sith I shewed thereupon withall, that, for the triall of controuersies by scripture, ye toongs (in which the scripture is written) must be knowne, namely, Gréeke and Hebrue. The which shreddes and cloutes, neither many taylers and coblers with vs, neither many Cardinalles and Popes with you haue. Nor yet am I ashamed of that kinde of triall and iudgement by the godly who haue not learned toonges, and artes, but Christ onely. And I comprised it in that which I said, that Christ is the iudge, and they which vnder him haue it committed to them, euen the church of Christ. For himselfe hath giuen by speciall commission two sortes of iudgement to his church, the one priuate, the other publike: priuate, to all the faithfull, and bspirituall, as God calleth them, who are willed cto iudge of that which is taught, and to dtrie spirits whither they be of God: publike, eto the assembly of pastors and elders: for fof that which Prophets teach, let Prophets iudge, and
The words of Christ to Peter, contained a promise of the keys, I will give thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. The occasion of the ⟨p. 101⟩words, was a question of Christ, asked of the Apostles, answered by Peter: whom say ye that I am? Thou art Christ the Son of the living God. The sense which I gathered by laying these together, was, that as Peter answered, one, for all: so the keys were meant to him, one, with all. To prove the former point, that Peter answered, one, for all: the scripture is most plain, in the sixth of John, where (before this time) Peter had confessed in their common name, hWe believe, and know, that thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. To prove the later, that the keys were meant to him, one, with all: the scripture is as plain in the twentieth of John, where Christ performing that which he had promised to Peter, doth say to him with the rest, iAs my Father sent me, so do I send you. Whose sins soever ye remit, they are remitted to them: & whose sins soever ye retain, they are retained. Wherefore sith the keys were promised by Christ on the profession of their faith, which was common to them all: and the promise was performed, when he sent them all with power to bind and loose, to remit and retain sins: it followeth that the keys belonged no more to Peter, then to all the Apostles. And therefore the promise of the keys to him, importeth no headship of his over them.
The wordes of Christ to Peter, conteined a promise of the keyes, I will giue thee the keyes of the kingdome of heauen. The occasion of the ⟨p. 101⟩wordes, was a question of Christ, asked of the Apostles, answered by Peter: whom say yee that I am? Thou art Christ the Sonne of the liuing God. The sense which I gathered by laying these together, was, that as Peter answered, one, for all: so the keyes were meant to him, one, with all. To proue the former point, that Peter answered, one, for all: the scripture is most plaine, in the sixt of Iohn, where (before this time) Peter had confessed in their common name, hWe beleeue, and know, that thou art Christ, the Sonne of the liuing God. To proue the later, that the keyes were meant to him, one, with all: the scripture is as plaine in the twentieth of Iohn, where Christ performing that which he had promised to Peter, doth say to him with the rest, iAs my Father sent me, so doo I send you. Whose sinnes soeuer ye remit, they are remitted to them: & whose sinnes soeuer ye reteine, they are reteined. Wherefore sith the keyes were promised by Christ on the profession of their fayth, which was common to them all: and the promise was performed, when he sent them all with power to binde and loose, to remit and reteine sinnes: it followeth that the keyes belonged no more to Peter, then to all the Apostles. And therefore the promise of the keyes to him, importeth no headship of his ouer them.
Hart. That which was promised by Christ unto Peter, was not performed to the Apostles. For, he gave not them the keys of his kingdom: but the power of remitting and retaining sins.
Hart. That which was promised by Christ vnto Peter, was not performed to the Apostles. For, he gaue not them the keyes of his kingdome: but the power of remitting and reteyning sinnes.
Rainoldes. These things differ in words, but they are one in sense: as Joseph said to Pharaoh, kBoth Pharaoh's dreams are one. For as God, to teach Pharaoh what he would do in Egypt by seven years of plenty, & seven years of famine, did use two sundry dreams, of kine, and ears of corn, the surer to resolve him of his purpose in it: so Christ, to teach us what he doth for mankind in ordaining the ministry of the word & Sacraments, luseth two similitudes, the one, of keys, the other, of binding & loosing, that we may know the better the fruit & force of it. Touching the keys: he speaketh of heaven, as of a house, whereinto there is no entrance for men, unless the door be opened. Now we (all Adams offspring) are shut out of heaven, as Adam our progenitor was out of Paradise, through our offences and sins. For mno unclean thing shall enter into it. But nGod, of his ⟨p. 102⟩love and favour towards us, hath given us his son, his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life: which is othe inheritance reserved in heaven, for us. pWe cannot believe, unless we hear his word. We hear not his word, unless it be preached. Wherefore when qGod the Father sent his son Christ, and rChrist sent his Apostles as his Father sent him, to preach his word to men, that they who repented and believed in Christ should have their sins forgiven them, the faithless & unrepentant should not be forgiven: then he gave authority as it were to open heaven to the faithful, and to shut it against the wicked. Which office (to shut, and open) because in mens houses it is exercised by keys: and sthe steward of the house is said tto have the key of it, to open it and to shut it: therefore Christ, the principal steward of Gods house is said uto have the key of David: and he gave his Apostles the keys (as you would say) of the kingdom of heaven, when he made them his *stewards to shut out, to let in. The other similitude of binding and loosing is to like effect. For xwe are all by nature the children of sin, yand therefore of death. Now sins are in a manner the same to the soul, that zcords to the body: and the endless pains of death, (that is, the wages of sin) are like to achains, wherewith the wicked are bound in hell, as bin a prison.
Rainoldes. These things differ in wordes, but they are one in sense: as Ioseph said to Pharao, kBoth Pharaos dreames are one. For as God, to teach Pharao what he would do in Egipt by seuen yeares of plentie, & seuen yeares of famine, did vse two sundrie dreames, of kine, and eares of corne, the surer to resolue him of his purpose in it: so Christ, to teach vs what he doth for mankind in ordeining the ministerie of the word & Sacraments, lvseth two similituds, the one, of keyes, the other, of binding & loosing, that we may know the better the fruit & force of it. Touching ye keyes: he speaketh of heauen, as of a house, wherinto there is no entrance for men, vnlesse the doore be opened. Now we (all Adams ofspring) are shut out of heauen, as Adam our progenitour was out of Paradise, through our offenses and sinnes. For mno vncleane thing shall enter into it. But nGod, of his ⟨p. 102⟩loue and fauour towards vs, hath giuen vs his sonne, his onely begotten sonne, that whosoeuer beleeueth in him should not perish, but haue eternall life: which is othe inheritaunce reserued in heauen, for vs. pWe cannot beleeue, vnlesse wée heare his word. We heare not his word, vnlesse it be preached. Wherefore when qGod the Father sent his sonne Christ, and rChrist sent his Apostles as his Father sent him, to preach his word to men, that they who repented and beleeued in Christ should haue their sinnes forgiuen them, the faithlesse & vnrepentant should not be forgiuen: then he gaue authoritie as it were to open heauen to the faithfull, and to shut it against the wicked. Which office (to shut, and open) because in mens houses it is exercised by keies: and sthe stewarde of the house is saide t
From these cords of sin, and chains of death eternal, men are loosed by Christ, when their sins be remitted: their sins are remitted, if they believe in him. If they believe not, their sins are retained: whose sins are retained, they do continue bound. For, che that believeth not, shall be condemned: he that believeth, shall be saved. None shall be condemned but they whose sins are retained, to bind them with the chains of darkness: none saved, but they whose sins are remitted, and the cords unloosed by which they were holden. Wherefore, sith the Gospel is preached to this end da savour of life to life unto believers; unto the unbelievers, a savour of death to death: as we read of Christ, that ethe Lord sent him to preach deliverance to the captives, and opening of prison to them that are bound: in like sort his ministers whom he sent to preach it, are said fto bind and loose, gto retain and remit sins. So that both these kinds of speech import the same that is signified by keys. For, to bind, and to ⟨p. 103⟩retain sins, is to shut: to loose, and to remit sins, is to open the kingdom of heaven. Your own church doth take the keys in this meaning: even hthe Council of Trent. For, whereas Christ gave to his Apostles and their successors the power of binding and loosing, that is, of remitting and retaining sins, as your selves expound it: this power you call the power of the keys, as by which an entrance into heaven is opened: because the gates of heaven are as it were unlocked to them, who have remission and forgiveness of sins, and locked to the rest. Which things being so, this sum ariseth of them, that, sith the keys of the kingdom of heaven are all one with the power of binding and loosing, of remitting and retaining sins: Christ therefore, when he promised the keys, meant that power; and, when he gave that power, gave the keys. But, he gave that power to all the Apostles. It followeth then, he gave the keys to them all.
From these cordes of sinne, and chaines of death eternall, men are loosed by Christ, when their sinnes be remitted: their sinnes are remitted, if they beleeue in him. If they beleeue not, their sinnes are reteined: whose sinnes are reteined, they doo continue bound. For, che that beleeueth not, shall be condemned: he that beléeueth, shall be saued. None shall be condemned but they whose sinnes are reteined, to binde them with the chaines of darkenesse: none saued, but they whose sinnes are remitted, and the cordes vnloosed by which they were holden. UUherefore, sith the Gospell is preached to this ende da sauour of life to life vnto beléeuers; vnto the vnbeléeuers, a sauour of death to death: as we reade of Christ, that ethe Lord sent him to preach deliuerance to the captiues, and opening of prison to them that are bound: in like sort his ministers whom he sent to preach it, are said fto binde and loose, gto reteine and remit sinnes. So that both these kinds of spéech import the same that is signified by keyes. For, to binde, and to ⟨p. 103⟩reteine sinnes, is to shut: to loose, and to remit sinnes, is to open the kingdome of heauen. Your owne church dooth take the keyes in this meaning: euen hthe Councell of Trent. For, whereas Christ gaue to his Apostles and their successours the power of binding and loosing, that is, of remitting and reteining sinnes, as your selues expound it: this power you call the power of the keies, as by which an entrance into heuen is opened: because the gates of heauen are as it were vnlocked to them, who haue remission and forgiuenes of sinnes, and locked to the rest. Which thinges being so, this summe ariseth of them, that, sith the keyes of the kingdome of heauen are all one with the power of binding and loosing, of remitting and reteining sinnes: Christ therefore, when he promised the keyes, meant that power; and, when he gaue that power, gaue the keyes. But, he gaue that power to all the Apostles. It followeth then, he gaue the keyes to them all.
Hart. You expound these places, I cannot tell how. For much of that which you say, is said by us also: and yet you agree not with us in the principal. Howsoever you cast the parcels of your count: there is a fault in the sum. Wherefore you must pardon me if I allow it not. For, (to use *his words, whose opinion, though you mislike him, I far esteem above yours:) by the name of the keys of the kingdom of heaven which Christ promised to Peter, he simply meant all power, whereby the kingdom of heaven (in whatsoever sense you take it) may be shut and opened. As for that which followeth, aand whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth, shall be bound in heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, shall be loosed in heaven: 1this is not (as some have thought) an explication or limitation of the keys. For so, by those words, should Christ have restrained the power of Peter to the only outward ecclesiastical court. For 2it is the common opinion of all the Schoolmen, that by those words, bwhatsoever ye shall bind, and so forth, (which are like to these words spoken unto Peter, and have the same meaning) an ecclesiastical judge in the outward court is made: as by those other words, cwhose sins ye remit, and so forth, an ecclesiastical judge in the inward court is made. Wherefore, if din this place, that [whatsoever thou shalt bind] were an explication or limitation of the keys: ⟨p. 104⟩then by the name of keys were promised to Peter a power judicial only in the outward court: which is but a part (and that a lesser part) of the power of the keys. For a great deal more excellent is the power of remitting sins, then of excommunicating or suspending a man from his office or honour: and therefore this may be exercised by him that is not a Priest, whereas the other belongeth unto Priests only. Again, because our Saviour 3addeth with a conjunction, & whatsoever thou shalt bind: it must note differently some distinct power, at the least in special: even as the other things, all that go before, uttered conjunctively, are things distinct and different: to wit, and I say to thee, and upon this peter, and hell gates shall not prevail, and to thee will I give the keys, and lastly, and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth, and so forth.
Hart. You expounde these places, I cannot tell how. For much of that which you say, is said by vs also: and yet you agrée not with vs in the principall. Howsoeuer you cast the parcels of your count: there is a fault in the summe. Wherefore you must pardon me if I allow it not. For, (to vse *his wordes, whose opinion, though you mislike him, I farre estéeme aboue yours:) by the name of the keyes of the kingdome of heauen which Christ promised to Peter, he simply meant all power, whereby the kingdome of heauen (in whatsoeuer sense you take it) may bee shutte and opened. As for that which followeth, aand whatsoeuer thou shalt binde on earth, shall bee bounde in heauen, and whatsoeuer thou shalt loose on earth, shall be loosed in heauen: 1this is not (as some haue thought) an explication or limitation of the keyes. For so, by those words, should Christ haue restrained the power of Peter to the only outward ecclesiasticall court. For 2it is the common opinion of all the Schoolemen, that by those words, bwhatsoeuer yee shall binde, and so forth, (which are like to these wordes spoken vnto Peter, and haue the same meaning) an ecclesiasticall iudge in the outward court is made: as by those other words, cwhose sinnes ye remit, and so forth, an ecclesiasticall iudge in the inwarde court is made. Wherefore, if din this place, that [whatsoeuer thou shalt binde] were an explication or limitation of the keies: ⟨p. 104⟩then by the name of keyes were promised to Peter a power iudiciall onely in the •utward court: which is but a part (and that a lesser part) of the power of the keyes. For a great deale more excellent is the power of remitting sinnes, then of excommunicating or suspending a man from his office or honour: and therfore this may be exercised by him that is not a Priest, whereas the other belongeth vnto Priestes onely. Againe, because our Sauiour 3
1Non est (ut quiba•dam visum suit) explicatio, aut limitatio ipsatum clavium.Non est (vt quiba•dam visum suit) explicatio, aut limitatio ipsatum clauium.
to expound the scripture by scripture is good, and it is fruitfull to confer places, to obserue the wordes and circumstances of the text: but there are manye daungers and difficulties in it; the text is not alwaies knitte and coherent to it selfe; the very order of speaking is oftentimes abrupt, sometimes preposterous altogither; there are sundry
anantapodota in S. Paule; one word, yea in one sentence hath sundry significations: places may seeme like one to an other, that are vnlike, and contrariwise: and many mo such inconueniences, enough to breake the hart of a weak Christian.
mStaplet. prin. doctr. l. 11. c. 9. & 10.
*These are Giants, the sons of Anak, of whom it is written N•m. 13.34.These are Giants, the sonnes of Anak, of whom it is written N•m. 13.34.
*These are Giants, the sons of Anak, of whom it is written N•m. 13.34.These are Giants, the sonnes of Anak, of whom it is written N•m. 13.34.
the spirites of Prophetes are subiect to the Prophets. In both of the which, the church must yet remember, that God hath committed nothing but the ministerie of giuing iudgement vnto her. The soueraintie of iudgement dooth rest on Gods word. For Christ is
to returne vnto the wordes of Christ, from which we digressed: the sense (I gaue of them) will I proue by scripture, according to the rule of faith: the proofe of the sense I submit to the priuate and publike iudgement of the church.
to haue the key of it, to open it and to shut it: therefore Christ, the principall steward of Gods house is saide
addeth with a coniunction, & whatsoeuer thou shalt binde: it must note differently some distinct power, at the least in speciall: euen as the other things, all that go before, vttered coniunctiuely, are things distinct and different: to wit, and I say to thee, and vpon this peter, and hell gates shall not preuaile, and to thee will I giue the keyes, and lastly, and whatsoeuer thou shalt binde on earth, and so forth.
