The sum of the conference between John Rainoldes and John Hart touching the head…The summe of the conference betwene Iohn Rainoldes and Iohn Hart touching the head…
The sum of the conference between John Rainoldes and John Hart touching the head and the faith of the Church. Wherein by the way are handled sundry points, of the sufficiency and right expounding of the Scriptures, the ministry of the Church, the function of priesthood, the sacrifice of the mass, with other controversies of religion: but chiefly and purposely the point of Church-government ... Penned by John Rainoldes, according to the notes set down in writing by them both: perused by John Hart, and (after things supplied, & altered, as he thought good) allowed for the faithful report of that which past in conference between them. Whereunto is annexed a treatise entitled, Six conclusions touching the Holy Scripture and the Church, written by John Rainoldes. With a defence of such things as Thomas Stapleton and Gregory Martin have carped at therein.The summe of the conference betwene Iohn Rainoldes and Iohn Hart touching the head and the faith of the Church. Wherein by the way are handled sundrie points, of the sufficiencie and right expounding of the Scriptures, the ministerie of the Church, the function of priesthood, the sacrifice of the masse, with other controuerises of religion: but chiefly and purposely the point of Church-gouernment ... Penned by Iohn Rainoldes, according to the notes set downe in writing by them both: perused by Iohn Hart, and (after things supplied, & altered, as he thought good) allowed for the faithfull report of that which past in conference betwene them. Whereunto is annexed a treatise intitled, Six conclusions touching the Holie Scripture and the Church, writen by Iohn Rainoldes. With a defence of such thinges as Thomas Stapleton and Gregorie Martin haue carped at therein.
John Rainolds 1549–1607Londini: printed by John Wolfe, 1584Londini: printed by Iohn Wolfe, 1584
475, [1], 479-674, 659-750 p. · 304k words · STC 20626 · ESTC S115546
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
Rainoldes. That which is written *in the Proverbs of Solomon, He that wringeth his nose causeth blood to come out: may be truly said of the proofs which you press out of these circumstances. The most pithy of them, if any of them have pith, are they which touch the matter: the question, of love required; the charge enjoined, of feeding; and each of them repeated thrice. Which all in very truth, as Christ did use them to Peter, were rather a stay of his weakness, then a mark of his worthiness, much less a proof of his supremacy. For Peter had pretended greater love to Christ, then had the rest of the Apostles. ⟨p. 136⟩In so much that when Christ had told them of their frailty, the night before his passion, rAll ye will be offended at me this night, for it is written, I will smite the shepherd and the sheep shall be scattered: Peter answering said unto him, though all should be offended at thee, yet will I never be offended. Whereto when Christ replied, verily I say unto thee, this night before the cock crow, thou wilt deny me thrice: Peter answered him again, though I should dye with thee, yet will I not deny thee. This promise, as it was made by all the Apostles, but chiefly by Peter: so was it broken by them all, but chiefly by him. For they did all forsake Christ: Peter did not only forsake him, but forswear him too. Wherefore when our Saviour after his resurrection would gather them together, to confirm them from their fear, and give them power to preach the Gospel to all Nations: he, that in comforting them all (before his passion) remembered Peter chiefly as needing it most; 3but I have prayed for thee: did then (in sending for them to meet him in Galilee) remember Peter namely, by the voice of his Angel, saying to the women, ttell his disciples and Peter that he will go before you into Galilee. Peter, a disciple: yet named beside the disciples: 1as who might think him self not worthy of the name of a disciple, that had denied his Master thrice. Now when they were come to him into Galilee, and had received common both comfort and commission to execute the charge whereto they were chosen: Christ admonished Peter particularly of his duty, and moved him (beside the rest) to do it faithfully; as he particularly before had betrayed it, and had behaved him self most fearfully above the rest.
Rainoldes. That which is written *in the Prouerbes of Salomon, Hee that wringeth his nose causeth blood to come out: may be truely saide of the proofes which you presse out of these circumstances. The most pithie of them, if any of them haue pith, are they which touch the matter: the question, of loue required; the charge enioyned, of feeding; and each of them repeated thrise. Which all in verie truth, as Christ did vse them to Peter, were rather a stay of his weakenesse, then a marke of his worthinesse, much lesse a proofe of his supremacy. For Peter had pretended greater loue to Christ, then had the rest of the Apostles. ⟨p. 136⟩In so much that when Christ had told them of their frailtie, the night before his passion, rAll ye wil be offended at me this night, for it is written, I will smite the shepheard and the sheepe shal be scattered: Peter answering said vnto him, though al should be offended at thee, yet will I neuer be offended. Whereto when Christ replied, verily I say vnto thee, this night before the cocke crow, thou wilt denie me thrise: Peter answered him againe, though I should dye with thee, yet will I not denie thee. This promise, as it was made by all the Apostles, but chiefely by Peter: so was it broken by them all, but chiefely by him. For they did all forsake Christ: Peter did not only forsake him, but forsweare him too. Wherefore when our Sauiour after his resurrection would gather them togither, to confirme them from their feare, and giue them power to preach the Gospell to all Nations: he, that in comforting them all (before his passion) remembred Peter chiefely as néeding it most; 3but I haue praied for thee: did then (in sending for them to méete him in Galile) remember Peter namely, by the voice of his Angell, saying to the women, ttell his disciples and Peter that he wil go before you into Galile. Peter, a disciple: yet named beside ye disciples: 1as who might thinke him selfe not worthy of the name of a disciple, that had denied his Maister thrise. Now when they were come to him into Galile, and had receiued common both comfort and commission to execute the charge whereto they were chosen: Christ admonished Peter particularly of his duetie, and moued him (beside the rest) to do it faithfully; as he particularly before had betraied it, and had behaued him selfe most fearefully aboue the rest.
To encourage him therefore with assuring his conscience 2of the forgiveness of his sin, and strengthen him to constancy, that he offend no more s•: Christ demandeth of him whether he love him; and thereupon chargeth him, to feed his lambs and sheep. In demanding of him, dost thou love me more then these: first, he toucheth his fault, who had professed more then these, but had performed less then these. Then he showeth that it is pardoned. For uhe who loveth more, to him more is forgiven : his greater love is a token of it. In charging him to feed his lambs and his sheep: he sharpneth his care, that now he be faithful and firm in following Christ, though he shall come to danger, yea to death thereby. ⟨p. 137⟩Both which, 3the demand and charge are thrice repeated: the demand, that Peter by his threefold answer may countervail his threefold denial of Christ: the charge, because that *nails the oftener they are stricken, the deeper they do pierce. xTo write the same to Christians, it grieveth not our Apostle: it is a safe thing for us. And although the truth of this exposition be very apparent by conference of Scriptures: yet, that you may take it with the better appetite, who love not to eat meat without this sauce, you may know that I find it (for the chiefest points which touch the matter nearest) in Cyril, Austin, Ambrose, and other ancient Fathers. Wherefore, your pithiest notes out of the circumstances of the text, have colour of some proof for Peters infirmity, but nought for his Supremacy. As for the other three, which you pick out of the words [Greek or Hebrew], and to feed: they have no pith at all, they are as bones without marrow. If this be the fruit of ythe study of the tongs renewed in your Seminaries, that by show thereof you may out face the Protestants, who by help thereof have rid your filth out of the church: then your tongues will prove as good as the miracles, which zJannes wrought, and Jambres, to harden Pharaoh's hart, by doing like as Moses did. You cast us in the teeth with a akingdom of Grammarians: but you would raise a Popedom of them. And bas Erasmus saith, that Schoolmen, speaking barbarously, said, it was not meet for the majesty of divinity that it should be bound to keep the laws of Grammarians:
To encourage him therefore with assuring his conscience 2of the forgiuenes of his sinne, and strengthē him to constancie, that he offend no more s•: Christ demaundeth of him whether he loue him; and thereupon chargeth him, to feede his lambes and sheepe. In demaunding of him, doost thou loue me more then these: first, he toucheth his faulte, who had professed more then these, but had performed lesse then these. Then he sheweth that it is pardoned. For uhee who loueth more, to him more is forgiuē : his greater loue is a token of it. In charging him to feede his lambes and his sheepe: he sharpneth his care, that now he be faithfull and firme in following Christ, though he shall come to daunger, yea to death therby. ⟨p. 137⟩Both which, 3the demaund and charge are thrise repeated: the demaund, that Peter by his threefold answere may counteruaile his threefold denial of Christ: the charge, because that *nailes the oftner they are strooken, the déeper they do pearce. xTo write the same to Christians, it greeueth not our Apostle: it is a safe thing for vs. And although the truth of this exposition be very apparant by conference of Scriptures: yet, that you may take it with the better appetite, who loue not to eate meate without this sauce, you may know that I finde it (for the chiefest pointes which touch the matter néerest) in Cyril, Austin, Ambrose, and other auncient Fathers. Wherefore, your pithiest notes out of the circumstances of the text, haue colour of some proofe for Peters infirmitie, but nought for his Supremacie. As for the other three, which you picke out of the wordes 〈non-Latin alphabet〉, and to feede: they haue no pith at all, they are as bones without marrow. If this be the fruit of ythe studie of the toongs renued in your Seminaries, that by shew thereof you may out face the Protestantes, who by helpe therof haue ridde your filth out of the church: then your tongues will proue as good as the miracles, which z
2Cyril in evang. Johan. l. 12. c. 64. quia Petrus Christi •lementia maioris pe•••tiremissionem […] jure ab eo m•ior repetitur dilectio. Cui enim pl•s remit•icur. plu• amaze debet: ut ipse dicit •li•i, Luc. •.Cyrill in euang. Iohan. l. 12. c. 64. quia Petrus Christi •lementia maioris pe•••tiremissionem 〈…〉 iure ab eo m•ior repetitur dilectio. Cui enim pl•s remit•icur. plu• ama•e debet: vt ipse dicit •li•i, Luc. •.
3August. in Johann. tract. 123, & de verb▪ Domin. second. Johann. Serm. 49. Ambros. comment. in Luc. l. 10.August. in Iohann. tract. 123, & de verb▪ Domin. secund. Iohann. Serm. 49. Ambros. comment. in Luc. l. 10.
so the Popedom of Grammarians dealing too too Pope-like in expounding of words, (as *Popes do full oft in dispensing with things) will not have them bound to the Grammatical sense wherein their authors use them. But if we may obtain, that justice be ministered according to the civill laws of our kingdom: then shall the poor words (which your Popedom forceth to speak for the Papacy that which they never meant) be rescued from that injury. For, the Scripture showeth that, [Greek or Hebrew] signifieth as fervent love as [Greek or Hebrew] in deed the very same, chiefly in S. John: who declaring the perfect and entire love, of cGod towards Christ, of dChrist towards him; one where expresseth it by [Greek or Hebrew] & other where by [Greek or Hebrew] yea by [Greek or Hebrew] more oft then by [Greek or Hebrew]. So that (if the words had any difference in sense,) ⟨p. 138⟩it would be very likely, that [Greek or Hebrew] is rather the more significant of the two: sith it is used also ecommonly to note the love which the Lord doth bear towards us and we should bear one to an other: and that in place of greatest force, as when he saith, fThis is my commandment that ye 1love one an other, as I have 2loved you: 3greater love then this hath no man, when a man bestoweth his life for his friends. Whereas S. John therefore uttered Christs demand by the one word, and Peters answer by the other: it seemeth that he used the words indifferently, as having both the same meaning. Which is proved also by the consent and judgement of the Syriac translation, that hath the gsame word for them both. Howbeit if the words have a difference of sense: it agreeth better with the modesty of Peter to have said less, then more, of his love; chiefly, sith he had fallen by saying too much of it, and had by trial felt his frailty. But if he did answer, as you imagine him; Dost thou love me Peter? Lord, I love thee fervently: yet this fervent love inferreth no supremacy over the rest of the Apostles. For, what he reporteth of his own love, the same doth Christ witness of theirs, or rather more, if we would prick it up as you do; even hthat his Father loveth them, because that they loved him. In both the which branches *that same word is used, which (by your fancy) doth signify fervent love, when it may serve the Popes vantage.
so the Popedome of Grammarians dealing too too Pope-like in expounding of wordes, (as *Popes do full oft in dispensing with thinges) will not haue them bound to the Grammaticall sense wherein their authors vse them. But if we may obtaine, that iustice be ministred according to the ciuill lawes of our kingdome: then shall the poore wordes (which your Popedome forceth to speake for the Papacye that which they neuer meant) be rescued from that iniurie. For, the Scripture sheweth that, 〈non-Latin alphabet〉 signyfyeth as feruent loue as 〈non-Latin alphabet〉 in deede the verye same, chyefe•y in S. Iohn: who declaring the perfit and entire loue, of cGod towardes Christ, of dChrist towardes him; one where expresseth it by 〈non-Latin alphabet〉 & other wher by 〈non-Latin alphabet〉 yea by 〈non-Latin alphabet〉 more oft then by 〈non-Latin alphabet〉. So that (if the wordes had any difference in sense,) ⟨p. 138⟩it would be verie likely, that 〈non-Latin alphabet〉 is rather ye more significant of the two: sith it is vsed also ecommonly to note the loue which the Lord doth beare towardes vs and we should beare one to an other: and that in place of greatest force, as when he saith, fThis is my commandement that ye 1loue one an other, as I haue 2loued you: 3greater loue then this hath no man, when a man bestoweth his life for his friendes. Whereas S. Iohn therefore vttered Christes demand by the one worde, and Peters answere by the other: it séemeth that he vsed the wordes indifferently, as hauing both ye same meaning. Which is proued also by the consent and iudgement of the Syriake translation, that hath the
*Fuit hic nimis um Papaliter dispensatum. 2. q. 5. c. Me•n•m. In glossa. Francis. victoria relect. 4. De potest. Papae & concilii. Albert. Krantz. Saxon. lib. 5. cap. 8.
Hart. We do not rely so much on that word, as on the other two, [Greek or Hebrew], and [Greek or Hebrew], but chiefly on the word [Greek or Hebrew]. For although to feed (which is meant by [Greek or Hebrew]) doth import much: yet to feed and rule (which [Greek or Hebrew] signifieth) hath a greater force: as those places show where that word is used, iThou shalt rule them with a rod of iron, and, khe shall rule my people Israel. Wherefore Christ committed a sovereign power to Peter in that lhe said [Greek or Hebrew]: not only to feed but to rule and govern too.
Hart. We doo not relye so much on that word, as on the other two, 〈non-Latin alphabet〉, and 〈non-Latin alphabet〉, but chiefly on ye word 〈non-Latin alphabet〉. For although to feed (which is meant by 〈non-Latin alphabet〉) doth import much: yet to feede and rule (which 〈non-Latin alphabet〉 signifieth) hath a greater force: as those places shew where that worde is vsed, iThou shalt rule them with a rodde of yron, and, khe shall rule my people Israel. Wherefore Christ committed a soueraine power to Peter in that lhe said 〈non-Latin alphabet〉: not onely to feede but to rule and gouerne too.
Rainoldes. Then it was not Peters duty to rule the lambs but the sheep only. For Christ doth say [Greek or Hebrew], speaking of the sheep: and mof the lambs, [Greek or Hebrew].
Rainoldes. Then it was not Peters duetie to rule ye lambes but the shéepe onely. For Christ doth say 〈non-Latin alphabet〉, speaking of the shéepe: and mof the lambes, 〈non-Latin alphabet〉.
Hart. So I said. Yet that word which he useth of the lambs he useth nof the sheep also. Whereby this is showed (as I touched briefly out of o D. Stapleton) that lambs must be only ⟨p. 139⟩meted and fed of Peter (through the common food of doctrine to be looked for from 1him, as supreme father of the household, and from his See,) and they must be ruled of their next and proper Pastors whom immediately they are under: but sheep, that is to say, the greater and perfecter, Bishops themselves and Pastors, are committed to him not only to be fed with the common doctrine, but also to be ruled 2of him more immediately as of the supreme Pastor of Pastors.
Hart. So I said. Yet that word which he vseth of the lambes he vseth nof the shéepe also. Whereby this is shewed (as I touched briefly out of o D. Stapleton) that lambes must be onely ⟨p. 139⟩meated and fedde of Peter (through the common foode of doctrine to be looked for from 1him, as supreme father of the houshold, and from his Sée,) and they must be ruled of their next and proper Pastors whom immediatly they are vnder: but sheepe, that is to say, the greater and perfiter, Bishops themselues and Pastors, are committed to him not onely to be fedde with the common doctrine, but also to be ruled 2of him more immediatly as of the supreme Pastor of Pastors.
nver. 17. ••b. 6. cap. 10.
1Ab hoc supremo patre familias.
2Ab illo tanquam supreme pastorum pastor.Ab illo tanquam supreme pastorum pastore.
Rainoldes. So your Doctor noteth (I grant,) and you touched it. But you were best recall it, or else this fine fancy of that Greek word, as it is far fetched, so will be dear bought. For it must cost the Pope half of his supremacy.
Rainoldes. So your Doctor noteth (I grant,) and you touched it. But you were best recall it, or els this fine fansie of that Gréeke word, as it is farre fetched, so will be deare bought. For it must cost the Pope halfe of his supremacy.
Rainoldes. The Pope then hath nothing to do with the ruling and governing of Princes; much less with deposing them. For Peter had commission (you say) to feed only (and not to rule) the lambs.
Rainoldes. The Pope then hath nothing to doo with the ruling and gouerning of Princes; much lesse with deposing them. For Peter had commission (you say) to feede onely (and not to rule) the lambes.
Hart. But they must be ruled of their next Pastors, and so, by consequent, of the Pope: because their Pastors must be ruled of him, as Pastor of Pastors.
Rainoldes. Nay: but the Pastors are not to be ruled by the Pope neither, if this fancy hold. For in your Latin authentical translation pthe clause which doth answer to the Greek word hath not sheep but lambs. Whereupon qyour Rhemists also note the same as spoken of lambs, [Greek or Hebrew], feed & rule. So that, howsoever he lay hold on others by yt Greek word compared with your Latin text: yet his rule & government of Bishops & Pastors is shaken of thereby. And this is as much as half of his supremacy: nay all, by a consequent. For his claim lieth, first, over Bishops: and then, by means of Bishops, over the whole church. Thus while you devise by quirks of your own to underprop the Pope, you lay him on the ground: & do him more harm by crazing of the word [Greek or Hebrew], then good by fortifying of [Greek or Hebrew]. For although it signify to feed, in such sort, as shepherds do their sheep, and so consequently to rule them, and guide them, in all respects ⟨p. 116⟩as shepherds do, for the preserving of them: yet that charge of ruling belonged not to Peter alone peculiarly, but was and is common unto all shepherds. Our English tongue answereth not to the felicity of the greek and latin in making evident proof hereof. For in the greek words [Greek or Hebrew], & [Greek or Hebrew], and in the Latin pastor & pasco, the matter would be plainer. But yet in our English, a shepherd, and, to feed in that sort with ruling, are *yoked so together by link (as I may term it) of reason and sense, though it appear not in link and likeness of words: that as many as are called to the function of 1shepherds and Pastors of the church, they all are bound by duty 2to feed and rule so. The proof whereof we have in Peter and Paul: who moving the Pastors (whom they call Elders) to attend their charge, ithe one beseecheth them to 3feed the flock of God which dependeth on them: kthe other telleth them, that the holy Ghost hath made them overseers 4to feed the church of God; both using the same word [Greek or Hebrew] as betokening the common charge of shepherds. lYea Christ him self, speaking to the Angel, that is, the shepherd of the church of Thyatira, doth promise that he who overcometh and keepeth his works unto the end, shall have power given unto him over nations, and 5he shall rule them with a rod of iron.
Rainoldes. Nay: but the Pastors are not to be ruled by the Pope neither, if this fansie hold. For in your Latin authenticall translation pye clawse which doth answere to ye Gréeke word hath not sheep but lambes. Whervpō qyour Rhemists also note ye same as spokē of lambs, 〈non-Latin alphabet〉, feed & rule. So that, howsoeuer he lay hold on others by yt Gréeke word compared with your Latin text: yet his rule & gouernment of Bishops & Pastors is shakē of therby. And this is as much as half of his supremacy: nay all, by a consequent. For his claime lieth, first, ouer Bishops: and then, by means of Bishops, ouer the whole church. Thus while you deuise by quirkes of your owne to vnderprop ye Pope, you lay him on the ground: & do him more harme by crasing of ye word 〈non-Latin alphabet〉, then good by fortifying of 〈non-Latin alphabet〉. For although it signifie to feede, in such sort, as shepheards do their sheepe, and so consequently to rule them, and guide them, in all respects ⟨p. 116⟩as shepheards doo, for the preseruing of them: yet that charge of ruling belonged not to Peter alone peculiarly, but was and is common vnto all shepheards. Our English toong answereth not to the felicitie of the gréeke and latin in making euident proofe hereof. For in the gréeke wordes 〈non-Latin alphabet〉, & 〈non-Latin alphabet〉, and in the Latin pastor & pasco, the matter would be plainer. But yet in our English, a shepheard, and, to feede in that sort with ruling, are *yoked so togither by lincke (as I may terme it) of reason and sense, though it appeare not in lincke and likenesse of words: that as many as are called to the function of 1shepheards and Pastors of the church, they all are bound by duetie 2to féede and rule so. The proofe whereof we haue in Peter and Paule: who mouing the Pastors (whom they cal Elders) to attend their charge, i
pJoh. 21.16. Pasce agnos, for [Greek or Hebrew].Ioh. 21.16. Pasce agnos, for 〈non-Latin alphabet〉.
qThe Rhemish Testament on that place in the margin.The Rhemish Testament on that place in the margent.
So that even there, where you note that word importeth greatest power of beating down the wicked: Christ applieth it to all his faithful servants and not to Peter only. Wherefore, if it were so that he had meant more by saying [Greek or Hebrew] than by [Greek or Hebrew], in his charge to Peter: yet he meant no more then that which belongeth to every shepherds charge for the sheep which God ordaineth him to feed. But, in truth, if your itch of wresting holy scriptures to private fancies were healed; you would rather think that S. John did utter one sense with sundry words, as in the Lords demand of Peter, Dost thou mlove me? so in his commandment to Peter nFeed my sheep. For the Syriac translation, which your self alleged, to prove, that the Greek words [Greek or Hebrew] & [Greek or Hebrew], though different in sound yet are one in sense, because our Saviour spake in the Syriac tongue, and in the Syriac both are [Greek or Hebrew] expresseth here also the two sundry Greek words by one [Greek or Hebrew] as if that our Saviour had used the same word, and meant the same thing in both. Which interpretation should be ⟨p. 141⟩of greater credit with you in this point then it was in that, because your authentical Latin translation which there dissented from it, agreeth with it here, expressing likewise both by pasce. Unless you will say that your authentical Latin doth not express fully the meaning of the Greek.
So that euen there, where you note that word importeth greatest power of beating downe the wicked: Christ applieth it to all his faithfull seruants and not to Peter onely. Wherefore, if it were so that hee had ment more by saying 〈non-Latin alphabet〉 thē by 〈non-Latin alphabet〉, in his charge to Peter: yet he meant no more then that which belongeth to euery shepheards charge for the shéepe which God ordeineth him to féede. But, in truth, if your itche of wresting holy scriptures to priuate fansies were healed; you woulde rather thinke that S. Iohn did vtter one sense with sundry wordes, as in the Lordes demaunde of Peter, Doost thou mloue mee? so in his commandement to Peter nFeede my sheepe. For the Syriake translation, which your selfe alleaged, to proue, that the Gréeke wordes 〈non-Latin alphabet〉 & 〈non-Latin alphabet〉, though different in sound yet are one in sense, because our Sauiour spake in the Syriake toong, and in the Syriake both are 〈non-Latin alphabet〉 expresseth here also ye two sundry Gréeke words by one 〈non-Latin alphabet〉 as if that our Sauiour had vsed the same word, and meant the same thing in both. Which interpretation should bée ⟨p. 141⟩of greater credit with you in this point then it was in that, because your authenticall Latin translation which there dissented from it, agreeth with it here, expressing likewise both by pasce. Unlesse you will say that your authenticall Latin doth not expresse fully the meaning of the Gréeke.
m[Greek or Hebrew], and [Greek or Hebrew].〈non-Latin alphabet〉, and 〈non-Latin alphabet〉.
n[Greek or Hebrew] and [Greek or Hebrew].〈non-Latin alphabet〉 and 〈non-Latin alphabet〉.
Rainoldes. You say true. How much the more were they to blame pwho decreed that a translation should be accounted as authentical *in all Divinity-exercises, and no man under any pretence to reject it. But if there had been such force and importance in the Greek [Greek or Hebrew]: your Latin translator could have expressed it easily. For qotherwhere he doth translate it 1to rule: and that, being spoken of meaner Pastors then Peter, even of the Bishops of Ephesus. Which bewrayeth further the silly state of your proof grounded on the word. For, if Peter were ordained supreme head because he was willed to rule the 2sheep or 3lambs: what headship may the Bishops of Ephesus claim, who were made overseers to rule the church of God, that is both lambs and sheep? But your last proof upon the word rto feed which signifieth (you say) a power most full and absolute, is most out of square: and neither agreeth with your selves, nor with truth and reason. For you said that lambs are only fed of Peter: sheep, both fed and ruled. Which is fond, if to rule be no more then to feed: fonder, if to feed imply a power most full and absolute. Beside that, to feed, is to nourish Christians with smilk or strong meat according to their state, as they are either lambs or sheep. Wherefore if that import the fullness of power which no man hath but one, to weet, the supreme head: how great is your cruelty to the church of Christ, who leave but one Pastor throughout all the earth to preach the word of God unto it? Or if you leave more, & grant that several Churches shall have their several Pastors after the ordinance of God: how great is your folly who granting us so many Pastors & feeders, yet say, that one alone hath the charge to feed, and that importeth a supremacy? For if every Pastor have charge to feed his flock; and to feed implieth a fullness of power peculiar to the supreme head: then by your reason ⟨p. 142⟩every Pastor in his church, every feeder in his flock, is a supreme head, no less then Peter was amongst the Apostles. Nay, Peter was not so, by your reason, neither. For, if to feed do signify a power most absolute and full, as tyou say it doth, and that power was given to all the Apostles, uas you confess too: it followeth by your own confession and saying that all the Apostles had that charge, to feed. If all they had that charge:
Rainoldes. You say true. How much the more were they to blame pwho decréed that a translation should be accounted as authenticall *in all Diuinitie-exercises, and no man vnder any pretense to reiect it. But if there had bene such force and importance in the Gréeke 〈non-Latin alphabet〉: your Latin translator could haue expressed it easily. For qotherwhere he doth translate it 1to rule: and that, being spoken of meaner Pastors then Peter, euen of the Bishops of Ephesus. Which bewrayeth further the séely state of your proofe grounded on ye worde. For, if Peter were ordeined supreme head because he was willed to rule the 2sheepe or 3lambes: what headship may the Bishoppes of Ephesus claime, who were made ouerseers to rule the church of God, that is both lambes and shéepe? But your last proofe vpon the word rto feede which signifieth (you say) a power most full and absolute, is most out of square: and neither agreeth with your selues, nor with truth and reason. For you said that lambes are onely fedde of Peter: sheepe, both fedde and ruled. Which is fond, if to rule be no more then to feede: fonder, if to feede imply a power most full and absolute. Beside that, to feede, is to nourish Christians with smilke or strong meate according to their state, as they are either lambes or sheepe. Wherefore if that import the fulnesse of power which no man hath but one, to wéete, the supreme head: how great is your crueltie to the church of Christ, who leaue but one Pastor throughout all the earth to preach the word of God vnto it? Or if you leaue more, & grant that seuerall Churches shall haue their seuerall Pastors after the ordinance of God: how great is your folly who graunting vs so many Pastors & feeders, yet say, that one alone hath the charge to feede, and that importeth a supremacy? For if euery Pastor haue charge to feede his flocke; and to feede implieth a fulnesse of power peculiar to the supreme head: then by your reason ⟨p. 142⟩
pConcil. Trident. Session. 4.
*In publicis lectionibus, disputationibus, praedicationibus, & expositionibus.
as Erasmus saith, that Schoolemen, speaking barbarously, saide, it was not meete for the maiestie of diuinitie that it should be bound to keepe the lawes of Grammarians:
aCampians challenge in the sixth article. Bristowes reply to Fulk. chap. 10. Dem. 41.Campians chalenge in the sixt article. Bristowes reply to Fulk. chap. 10. Dem. 41.
same worde for them both. Howbeit if the wordes haue a difference of sense: it agreeth better with the modestie of Peter to haue saide lesse, then more, of his loue; chiefly, sith hee had fallen by saying too much of it, and had by triall felt his frailtie. But if he did answere, as you imagine him; Dost thou loue me Peter? Lord, I loue thee feruently: yet this feruent loue inferreth no supremacy ouer the rest of the Apostles. For, what he reporteth of his owne loue, the same doth Christ witnesse of theirs, or rather more, if we would pricke it vp as you doo; euen
Yea Christ him selfe, speaking to the Angel, yt is, ye shepherd of ye church of Thyatira, doth promise that hee who ouercommeth and keepeth his workes vnto the ende, shall haue power giuen vnto him ouer nations, and
euerie Pastor in his church, euery feeder in his flocke, is a supreme head, no lesse then Peter was amongst the Apostles. Nay, Peter was not so, by your reason, neither. For, if to feede doo signifie a power most absolute and full, as
