The sum of the conference between John Rainoldes and John Hart touching the head…The summe of the conference betwene Iohn Rainoldes and Iohn Hart touching the head…
The sum of the conference between John Rainoldes and John Hart touching the head and the faith of the Church. Wherein by the way are handled sundry points, of the sufficiency and right expounding of the Scriptures, the ministry of the Church, the function of priesthood, the sacrifice of the mass, with other controversies of religion: but chiefly and purposely the point of Church-government ... Penned by John Rainoldes, according to the notes set down in writing by them both: perused by John Hart, and (after things supplied, & altered, as he thought good) allowed for the faithful report of that which past in conference between them. Whereunto is annexed a treatise entitled, Six conclusions touching the Holy Scripture and the Church, written by John Rainoldes. With a defence of such things as Thomas Stapleton and Gregory Martin have carped at therein.The summe of the conference betwene Iohn Rainoldes and Iohn Hart touching the head and the faith of the Church. Wherein by the way are handled sundrie points, of the sufficiencie and right expounding of the Scriptures, the ministerie of the Church, the function of priesthood, the sacrifice of the masse, with other controuerises of religion: but chiefly and purposely the point of Church-gouernment ... Penned by Iohn Rainoldes, according to the notes set downe in writing by them both: perused by Iohn Hart, and (after things supplied, & altered, as he thought good) allowed for the faithfull report of that which past in conference betwene them. Whereunto is annexed a treatise intitled, Six conclusions touching the Holie Scripture and the Church, writen by Iohn Rainoldes. With a defence of such thinges as Thomas Stapleton and Gregorie Martin haue carped at therein.
John Rainolds 1549–1607Londini: printed by John Wolfe, 1584Londini: printed by Iohn Wolfe, 1584
475, [1], 479-674, 659-750 p. · 304k words · STC 20626 · ESTC S115546
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
Hart. To strengthen is to stay them up who do stand. For the function of preaching, ewhich through the grace of God engendereth faith in men, hath two special parts, to teach, and to strengthen: or, as S. Paul speaketh, fto plant and to water. To teach and to plant, is to convert men unto the faith of Christ, and to engraft them into him. To strengthen and to water is to uphold them which are already faithful, that they may persevere in it.
Hart. To strengthen is to stay them vp who do stand. For the function of preaching, ewhich through the grace of God ingendreth faith in men, hath two speciall partes, to teach, and to strengthen: or, as S. Paule speaketh, fto plant and to water. To teach and to plant, is to conuert men vnto the faith of Christ, and to ingraffe them into him. To strengthen and to water is to vphold them which are already faithfull, that they may perseuere in it.
Rainoldes. Then is the charge lesser, to strengthen the brethren, then to feed the sheep. For to feed, is as much, as to preach the word of God. And, to preach, hath two duties: to raise up them that are fallen, to strengthen them that do stand. Wherefore if the supremacy were not given Peter by the charge, to feed the sheep: much less can it be given by a part of that charge, to strengthen the brethren. For as Peter ought that duty to his brethren: so did his brethren to him, and
English Chronicles have a story of king Edward the Confessor, and Godwin Earle of Kent: that, when they were sitting at table together, Harald the kings cup-bearer, the Earls son, did stumble so with one foot, that he was down almost, but recovering him self with the other foot, he neither fell, nor shed the drink. Whereat when the Earle smiled, and said,
⟨p. 128⟩
now one brother helped an other: the king calling to mind his brother Alfred's death, whom the Earle had slain, beheld him with a displeased countenance, and said, So might my brother also have holpen me, if thou hadst not been. In the which story, the cup-bearer who stumbled, doth show that one foot may strengthen an other, and stay them both that they fall not: the Earle, who observed therein a brothers duty, doth show, that the younger may strengthen the elder, or the elder the younger: the king, who remembered his own estate by it, doth show that the inferior may strengthen the superior, yea the member the head. By the proportion of which points a man of reason may see, that an equal in all respects may strengthen an equal: that, amongst unequals, the left may strengthen the right, and the right the left: yea, that an arm, that a foot may strengthen the head, and save it perhaps from taking such a fall, as would crush it in pieces. Wherefore the charge of Peter, to strengthen his brethren, is no sufficient proof that he was made head of the meanest amongst the faithful: much less of the Pastors whom
whose commission was the same with his to all nations.
Rainoldes. Then is the charge lesser, to strenghthen the brethren, then to feede the sheepe. For to feede, is as much, as to preach the word of God. And, to preach, hath two dueties: to raise vp them that are fallen, to strengthen them that do stand. Wherefore if the supremacie were not giuen Peter by the charge, to feede the sheepe: much lesse can it be giuen by a part of that charge, to strengthen the brethren. For as Peter ought that duetie to his brethren: so did his brethren to him, and gPaule performed it; so did the Apostles to their brethren, and hthey paid it; so do iall the faithfull, euery one to his brethren (according to that measure of grace, which God hath giuen them) kas being all members of the same bodie, and therefore ech to helpe other. Our lEnglish Chronicles haue a story of king Edward the Confessor, and Godwin Earle of Kent: that, when they were sitting at table togither, Harald the kinges cup-bearer, the Earles sonne, did stumble so with one foote, that he was downe almost, but recouering him selfe with ye other foote, he neither fell, nor shed the drinke. Whereat when the Earle smiled, and said, ⟨p. 128⟩now one brother helped an other: the king calling to mind his brother Alfreds death, whom the Earle had slaine, beheld him with a displeased countenance, and said, So might my brother also haue holpen me, if thou hadst not beene. In the which storie, the cup-bearer who stumbled, doth shew that one foote may strengthen an other, and stay them both that they fall not: the Earle, who obserued therein a brothers duetie, doth shewe, that the younger may strengthen the elder, or the elder the yoongger: the king, who remembred his owne estate by it, doth shewe that the inferior may strengthen the superior, yea the member the head. By the proportion of which pointes a man of reason may see, that an equall in all respectes may strengthen an equall: that, amongst vnequalles, the left may strengthen the right, and the right the left: yea, that an arme, that a foote may strengthen the head, and saue it perhaps from taking such a fall, as would crush it in péeces. Wherefore the charge of Peter, to strengthen his brethren, is no sufficient proofe that he was made head of the meanest amongst the faithfull: much lesse of the Pastors whom mhe calleth his fellow-elders; and least of al of the Apostles, nwhose commission was the same with his to all nations.
Hart. It is true that others may strengthen their brethren, as members of the same body: but Christ commandeth Peter to do it as their head. Which may be gathered *by the occasion, whereon the words were spoken. For, when there arose a strife among the Apostles which of them should seem to be the greatest: Christ said unto them, oThe kings of the Gentiles do reign over them; but you not so, and so forth: teaching them, that 1all desire and lust of reigning ought to be far from his ministers. 2Yet least he should seem thereby to have forbidden withal, or taken away all power of reigning from them: he added those words spoken to Peter only; plainly declaring that he should be the greatest, which was the matter where about they strived.
Hart. It is true that others may strengthen their brethren, as members of the same bodie: but Christ commaundeth Peter to do it as their head. Which may be gathered *by the occasion, whereon the wordes were spoken. For, when there arose a strife among the Apostles which of them should seeme to bee the greatest: Christ said vnto them, oThe kingesof the Gentiles do raigne ouer them; but you not so, and so forth: teaching them, that 1all desire and lust of raigning ought to bee farre from his ministers. 2Yet least he should séeme thereby to haue forbidden withall, or taken away all power of raigning from them: he added those wordes spoken to Peter onely; plainly declaring that he should be the greatest, which was the matter where about they striued.
2Ne tamen omnem dominandi potestatē pa•iter prohibuisse aut abstulisse videretur.Ne tamen omnem dominandi potestatē pa•iter prohibuisse aut abstulisse videretur.
Rainoldes. Cato said *that he marvelled, that a Sooth-sayer did not laugh when he saw a Sooth-sayer. Me thinks, the professors of your divinity should laugh, when they see one an other. For, they prove the points of their Popish doctrine by as strong reasons: as the Sooth sayers used to prove their divinations by the liver, and the hart, and other entrails of beasts. ⟨p. 145⟩But children are persuaded, when they hear a ring of belles that the belles speak whatsoever they have fancied, at least, like unto it. The Lord, when the Apostles did strive about dominion and superiority, told them, that none of them should be amongst the rest, as kings amongst the Gentiles: yet least he should seem withal to have forbidden all dominion amongst them, he appointed Peter to be their supreme head. Thus saith the Soothsayer. But what saith the Scripture? In effect the clean contrary. For it showeth, that Christ phaving reproved them for striving who should be the greatest, and thirsting to be Lords after the manner of earthly kings: qtaught them, that an humbling of them selves to their brethren, and a desire to do good by serving each of other, must be the preeminence that they should seek, as rhe had done. And as sthey had been partakers of his troubles, so thad he appointed to them a kingdom also: uto make them partakers of that bliss and glory, in which he should reign him self, as king of kings, & they (as counsellors about him) sitting on xtwelve thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel. Now the former part of this speech of Christ debarreth the Apostles all from that supremacy (of *our most holy Lord the Pope) which you would put on Peter. The later hath greater colour for his dream, who saith, that Christ removed 1all lust of reigning from his ministers, and 2not all power of reigning; because it mentioneth a kingdom that Christ appointed for them. But this importeth rather an equality of Peter with the rest of the Apostles: sith the state is common, and thrones are given to them all. Or if there might be even so notwithstanding a superiority, as at a council table there must needs be, in sitting one before an other: yet is that nothing unto that supremacy which you claim for Peter. For, to serve your purpose, Christ should have said, that he would establish them all in seats of honour: but Peter in a throne like ythe throne of Solomon:
Rainoldes. Cato said *that he marueiled, that a Sooth-sayer did not laugh when he saw a Sooth-sayer. Me thinkes, the professors of your diuinitie should laugh, when they sée one an other. For, they proue the pointes of their Popish doctrine by as strong reasons: as the Sooth sayers vsed to proue their diuinations by the liuer, and the hart, and other entralles of beastes. ⟨p. 145⟩But children are perswaded, when they heare a ring of belles that the belles speake whatsoeuer they haue fansied, at least, like vnto it. The Lord, when the Apostles did striue about dominion and superioritie, told them, that none of them should be amongst the rest, as kinges amongst the Gentiles: yet least he should seeme withall to haue forbidden all dominion amongst them, he appointed Peter to be their supreme head. Thus saith the Soothsayer. But what saith the Scripture? In effect the cleane contrary. For it sheweth, that Christ phauing reproued them for striuing who should be the greatest, and thirsting to be Lordes after the maner of earthly kinges: qtaught them, that an humbling of them selues to their brethren, and a desire to do good by seruing ech of other, must be the preeminence that they should seeke, as rhe had done. And as sthey had béene partakers of his troubles, so thad he appointed to them a kingdome also: uto make them partakers of that blisse and glory, in which he should raigne him selfe, as king of kinges, & they (as counsellors about him) sitting on xtwelue thrones to iudge the twelue tribes of Israel. Now the former part of this spéech of Christ debarreth the Apostles all from that supremacie (of *our most holy Lord the Pope) which you would put on Peter. The later hath greater coulour for his dreame, who saith, that Christ remoued 1
*Cic. de divination. lib. 2.Cic. de diuination. lib. 2.
and he should be their Pope, and they should be his Cardinals *to 1sit about the throne, and be both 2Counsellors to him, and judges with him of all the earth.
and he should be their Pope, and they should be his Cardinals *to 1sit about the throne, and be both 2Counsellors to him, and iudges with him of all the earth.
*As the Pope telleth his Cardinals (newly created) advertising them of their duty. Sacrar. ceremō. sanct. Rom. eccles. lib. 1. sect. 8.As the Pope telleth his Cardinals (newly created) aduertising them of their duetie. Sacrar. ceremō. sanct. Rom. eccles. lib. 1. sect. 8.
1Success ores Apostolorum circa thronum sedebitis.
2Consiliarii nostri & con •ucices orbis ••• rarum.
Rainoldes. Then you must prove them so. But if your mountains travel, and be delivered of a mouse: you may not look that I should admire it as a Giant.
Rainoldes. Then you must proue them so. But if your mountaines trauell, and be deliuered of a mouse: you may not looke that I should admire it as a Giant.
Hart. Well. Let us leave the occasion of Christs words: and weigh the words in themselves. *For there are two things which Christ doth therein. First, in the common danger of all, he strengtheneth Peter only: Satan hath desired you, to winnow you as wheat: but I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not. Then, least that strengthening should seem to have been made for Peters own sake alone, or in respect of his personal faith, he addeth, And thou being converted strengthen thy brethren: showing that he is strengthened in the faith, to the end he might strengthen the faith of all others, as who should be afterward the Pastor of them all.
Hart. Well. Let vs leaue the occasion of Christes wordes: and weigh the words in themselues. *For there are two things which Christ doth therein. First, in the common danger of all, he strengthneth Peter onely: Satan hath desired you, to winow you as wheat: but I haue prayed for thee, that thy faith faile not. Then, least that strengthning should séeme to haue bene made for Peters owne sake alone, or in respect of his personall faith, he addeth, And thou being conuerted strengthen thy brethen: shewing that he is strengthned in the faith, to the end he might strengthen the faith of all others, as who should be afterward the Pastor of them all.
Rainoldes. It were a needless labour for me to spend words in these your two points, if you had marked that which hath been said already. For I showed that the former argueth his weakness; the later openeth his duty; but neither proveth any preeminence at all, save a preeminence in frailty. The truth is, that Christ in those words doth three things: whereof one is a bile, and therefore you touch it not. For in the danger of them all, but greatest danger of Peter, he putteth him in mind 1first of his fall, to humble him; 2then of his rising, to comfort him; 3last, of his duty to quicken him unto it. His fall; to cool the heat of tpride and uvain glory, (may I so term it with the Fathers?) wherein he presumed, *more then the rest did, of his faith and constancy. His rising; that he should not despair when he had fallen. For though he dealt unfaithfully, denying Christ thrice: yet his faith should not fail, because xhe (whom God doth always hear) had prayed for him. His duty; that being raised up again he should strengthen his brethren: as having learned by experience both to have compassion of the infirmity of men & to preach the goodness and mercy of God. The last point, of his duty, was common to him (as I have showed) with the Apostles: and therefore proveth no preeminence of supreme headship. The first, of his fall, proveth a kind of preeminence; but in the denying of Christ above others: which Popes have ⟨p. 147⟩best right to, but they do not claim it. The other, of his rising, ensueth and dependeth on that of his fall: wherein, sith he specially would sin more then the rest, and so his danger be more special, and therefore need more special succour; Christ said to him in special, But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not. For Christ prayed the same for all his Apostles in sense, though not in word, by that solemn yprayer made unto his father, zI have declared thy name unto them, aholy father, keep them in thy name and bsanctify them with thy truth. Neither did he pray this for them only, but for call the faithful which should believe in him through their word. Wherefore, as a good father hath care of all his children, but if he see some one distressed above the rest, dwill cheer him up beside the rest; & a good Physician hath care of all the body, but applieth plasters to the part affected:
Rainoldes. It were a néedlesse labour for me to spend words in these your two pointes, if you had marked that which hath bene saide alreadie. For I shewed that the former argueth his weaknesse; the later openeth his duetie; but neither proueth any preeminence at all, saue a preeminence in frailtie. The truth is, that Christ in those wordes dooth thrée things: whereof one is a byle, and therefore you touch it not. For in the danger of them all, but greatest danger of Peter, he putteth him in minde 1first of his fall, to humble him; 2then of his rising, to comfort him; 3last, of his duetie to quicken him vnto it. His fall; to coole the heate of tpride and uvaine glorie, (may I so terme it with the Fathers?) wherein hee presumed, *more then the rest did, of his faith and constancy. His rising; that he should not despaire when he had fallen. For though he dealt vnfaithfully, denying Christ thrise: yet his faith should not faile, because xhe (whom God doth alwayes heare) had praied for him. His duetie; that being raised vp againe he should strengthen his brethren: as hauing learned by experience both to haue compassion of the infirmitie of men & to preach the goodnes and mercy of God. The last point, of his duetie, was common to him (as I haue shewed) with the Apostles: and therefore proueth no preeminence of supreme headship. The first, of his fall, proueth a kinde of preeminence; but in the denying of Christ aboue others: which Popes haue ⟨p. 147⟩best right to, but they doo not claime it. The other, of his rising, insueth and dependeth on that of his fall: wherin, sith he specially would sinne more then the rest, and so his danger be more speciall, and therefore néede more speciall succour; Christ said to him in speciall, But I haue prayed for thee, that thy faith faile not. For Christ prayed the same for all his Apostles in sense, though not in word, by that solemne yprayer made vnto his father,
1Satan hath desired to winnow you, as wheat.Satan hath desired to winow you, as wheate.
2I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not.I haue prayed for thee, that thy faith faile not.
3And thou being converted, strengthen thy brethren.And thou being conuerted, strengthen thy brethren.
so Christ, to help Peter, who was to be distressed & diseased most, encouraged him with this comfort, that his faith should not fail; and laid that salve of Gods assured favour on the sore of distrust that might afflict his mind. Now, this care and wisdom of a father and a Physician doth show (for the child & part whereto they tender it) not, that they be in greater honour then the rest, but that they stand in greater need. The words of Christ therefore spoken unto Peter, I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: do prove that he stood in greater danger then the rest, not that he was in greater dignity. And these are the words, of which D. eStapleton doth insolently vaunt, that they are so singular for Peters supremacy: that Calvin (when he had diligently weighed all other places & reasons that are wont to be brought for it, & refuted them as he could) made no mention at all of this place & these words *because he knew well that it was impossible to shift of words so manifest with any colour of a cavil. Whereas it is most likely, that Calvin, a wise & faithful servant of the Lord, did therefore pass them over in handling your supremacy, because he knew they made so little for your purpose, that if he should have brought them in amongst your reasons, he might seem to have sought a shadow wherewith to fight. For, you abuse them so notoriously, that if, I say not Calvin, but any of the meanest children of the Prophets, whom God hath scarcely given one portion of his spirit to, would deal with you for it: we have as just cause to charge you with this fact, as fTamar ⟨p. 148⟩fhad to charge her brother Ammon with his villainy.
so Christ, to helpe Peter, who was to be distressed & diseased most, encouraged him with this comfort, yt his faith should not faile; and laide that salue of Gods assured fauour on the sore of distrust that might afflict his minde. Now, this care and wisedome of a father and a Physition doth shew (for the childe & part whereto they tender it) not, that they be in greater honor then the rest, but that they stand in greater néede. The wordes of Christ therefore spoken vnto Peter, I haue prayed for thee, that thy faith faile not: doo proue that he stood in greater danger then the rest, not that he was in greater dignitie. And these are ye words, of which D. eStapleton doth insolētly vaunt, yt they are so singular for Peters supremacy: yt Caluin (when he had diligently weighed all other places & reasons that are wont to be brought for it, & refuted them as he could) made no mention at all of this place & these words *because he knew well that it was impossible to shift of words so manifest with any colour of a cauill. Whereas it is most likely, that Caluin, a wise & faithfull seruant of the Lord, did therfore passe them ouer in handling your supremacy, because he knew they made so litle for your purpose, that if he should haue brought them in amongst your reasons, he might séeme to haue sought a shadow wherewith to fight. For, you abuse them so notoriously, that if, I say not Caluin, but any of the meanest children of the Prophets, whom God hath scarcely giuen one portion of his spirit to, would deale with you for it: we haue as iust cause to charge you with this fact, as fTamar ⟨p. 148⟩fhad to charge her brother Ammon with his vilany.
ePrincip. doct•. lib. 6. cap. 8.
*Ut qui probe sciret nullo cavilationis suco tam manifesta ve•ba […] potuisse.Vt qui probe sciret nullo cauilationis suco tam manifesta ve•ba 〈…〉 potuisse.
Rainoldes. Nay, I may rather ask: good Lord, what mean you so to do? For, as Amnon, enamoured of his sisters beauty, ensnaring her by fraud, did force her to his lust, and after gcast her out; whereupon she said, hthis evil was greater then the other, which he had done unto her: so the Pope inflamed with love of the church, entrapping her with guile and using violence unto her, doth cast her out of doors by giving this as proper, first to Peter, then to him self, that Christ prayed for him, that his faith should not fail. Wherein I have this reason to say, that he doth greater evil unto the church, then was the other which he did: because in the other she had this comfort left, that the transgression was rather his, who did, then hers, who suffered force: in this he taketh from her all comfort of her misery, and maketh her ashamed to cast her eyes on God or man. For what is the comfort of the Church of Christ, the faithful, and elect, but that ihe hath prayed for us that we fail not, that the kgates of hell shall not prevail against us; that our lhope might be an anchor of strong consolation, that mwe do believe and are assured by Gods spirit we are the heirs of life eternal? of the which comfort that incestuous Amnon seeketh to bereave us and cast us out of the doors, when he saith that Christ prayed for Peter only, and after Peter for the Pope. But of the Pope *in due place. Now, we speak of Peter.
Rainoldes. Nay, I may rather aske: good Lord, what meane you so to doo? For, as Amnon, enamoured of his sisters beautie, ensnaring her by fraude, did force her to his lust, and after gcast her out; whervpon she said, hthis euill was greater then the other, which he had done vnto her: so the Pope enflamed with loue of the church, entrapping her with guile and vsing violence vnto her, doth cast her out of doores by giuing this as proper, first to Peter, then to him selfe, that Christ prayed for him, that his faith should not faile. Wherein I haue this reason to say, that he doth greater euill vnto the church, then was the other which he did: because in the other she had this comfort left, that the transgression was rather his, who did, then hers, who suffered force: in this he taketh from her all comfort of her misery, and maketh her ashamed to cast her eyes on God or man. For what is the comfort of the Churche of Christ, the faithfull, and elect, but that ihe hath prayed for vs that wée fayle not, that the kgates of hell shall not preuaile against vs; that our lhope might be an ancre of strong consolation, that mwe doo beléeue and are assured by Gods spirite wee are the heires of life eternall? of the which comfort that incestuous Amnon séeketh to bereaue vs and cast vs out of the doores, when he saith that Christ prayed for Peter onely, and after Peter for the Pope. But of the Pope *in due place. Now, we speake of Peter.
Hart. Why? Dare you deny that Christ spake to Peter, and to Peter only, when he said, nSimon, I have prayed for thee that thy faith should not fail? Doth not the very text of the Gospel show it?
Hart. Why? Dare you deny that Christ spake to Peter, and to Peter onely, when he said, nSimon, I haue prayed for thee that thy faith should not faile? Dooth not the very text of the Gospell shew it?
Rainoldes. What? Dare you deny that Christ spake to the man sick of the palsy, and to him only, when he said, oSon, be of good comfort, thy sins are forgiven thee? Doth not the very text of the Gospel show it? But is this a proof that other Christians have not their sins forgiven too? And do we all believe in vain when we believe forgiveness of sins? Or may you not affirm it with as good reason, as you affirm the other of Peter, not to fail in faith? Are you the masters of Israel pwho make so great boast of skill in all Divinity: and do you not know that Pastors and Preachers (of whom Christ was ⟨p. 149⟩1the chiefest) apply the general doctrines of the law and Gospel to them, in particular, who need to be relieved thereby? If I should say to some covetous man, who grindeth the faces of the poor, and buildeth up his house with blood, or joineth benefice to benefice, and taketh charge of a flock which he feedeth not; rLet thy conversation be without covetousness, for he hath said, I will not fail thee nor forsake thee: do I take this comfort of the providence of God from every other Christian, because I assure it to one in particular? Or did the Apostle overshoot himself, in saying that to all the faithful which God said to Joshua: sI will not leave thee, nor forsake thee? You have your choice, take which you list: either acquit us, or condemn him. For if Christ meant to assure the faith of none but of Peter, because he said to him, I have prayed for thee that thy faith should not fail: then did God promise his gracious assistance to none but to Joshua, when he said to him, I will not leave thee nor forsake thee: and *the Apostle erred in saying it to all Christians. If the Apostle said that to all Christians by the spirit of truth: then is it true in like sort, that it may be said to any child of God, whom Satan hath desired to sift and shake (as he did Peter,) and made him to deny Christ; Be of good comfort, for he hath said, I have prayed for thee that thy faith should not fail. And if it may be said to any child of God: then was it verified in all the Apostles, texcept the child of perdition. Wherefore Christ, by saying of those words to P•ter, gave him no Supremacy over the Apostles.
Rainoldes. What? Dare you deny that Christ spake to the man sicke of the palsie, and to him onely, when he said, oSonne, be of good comfort, thy sinnes are forgiuen thee? Dooth not the verie text of the Gospell shewe it? But is this a proofe that other Christians haue not their sinnes forgiuen too? And doo wée all beléeue in vaine when we beleeue forgiuenes of sinnes? Or may you not affirme it with as good reason, as you affirme the other of Peter, not to faile in faith? Are you the maisters of Israell pwho make so great boast of skill in all Diuinitie: and doo you not know that Pastors and Preachers (of whom Christ was ⟨p. 149⟩1the chiefest) apply the generall doctrines of the lawe and Gospell to them, in particular, who néede to be reléeued thereby? If I should say to some couetous man, who grindeth the faces of the poore, and buildeth vp his house with blood, or ioyneth benefice to benefice, and taketh charge of a flocke which he féedeth not; rLet thy conuersation be without couetousnesse, for he hath saide, I will not faile thee nor forsake thee: doo I take this comfort of the prouidence of God from euery other Christian, because I assure it to one in particular? Or did the Apostle ouershoote himselfe, in saying that to all the faithful which God said to Ioshua: sI will not leaue thee, nor forsake thee? You haue your choyce, take which you list: either acquit vs, or condemne him. For if Christ meant to assure the faith of none but of Peter, because he said to him, I haue prayed for thee that thy faith should not faile: then did God promise his gratious assistance to none but to Ioshua, when he said to him, I will not leaue thee nor forsake thee: and *the Apostle erred in saying it to all Christians. If the Apostle saide that to all Christians by the spirit of truth: then is it true in like sort, that it may be said to any childe of God, whom Satan hath desired to sift and shake (as he did Peter,) and made him to denie Christ; Be of good comfort, for he hath said, I haue prayed for thee that thy faith should not faile. And if it may be said to any childe of God: then was it verified in all the Apostles, t
pAllens Apology of the English Seminaries. Bristow in his Motives, Demands, and Reply.Allens Apologie of the English Seminaries. Bristow in his Motiues, Demandes, and Reply.
not all power of raigning; because it mentioneth a kingdome yt Christ appointed for them. But this importeth rather an equalitie of Peter with the rest of the Apostles: sith the state is commō, and thrones are giuen to thē al. Or if there might be euen so notwithstanding a superioritie, as at a councell table there must néedes be, in sitting one before an other: yet is that nothing vnto that supremacie which you claime for Peter. For, to serue your purpose, Christ should haue said, that he would establish them all in seates of honour: but Peter in a throne like
all the faithful which should beleeue in him through their word. Wherfore, as a good father hath care of all his children, but if he sée some one distressed aboue ye rest,
