The Christian disputations, by Master Peter Viret. Divided into three parts, dialogue wiseThe Christian disputations, by Master Peter Viret. Deuided into three partes, dialogue wise
The Christian disputations, by Master Peter Viret. Divided into three parts, dialogue wise: set out with such grace, that it cannot be, but that a man shall take great pleasure in the reading thereof. Translated out of French into English, by John Brooke of AsheThe Christian disputations, by Master Peter Viret. Deuided into three partes, dialogue wise: set out with such grace, that it cannot be, but that a man shall take greate pleasure in the reading thereoff. Translated out of French into English, by Iohn Brooke of Ashe
Pierre Viret 1511–1571London: printed by Thomas East, 1579
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
Hillarius. Thou makest a good reason. But by that compt, how can the bulls and pardons of the Pope be kept and preserved from the fire, which are sent thither by hole cart loads, & which some do cause to be buried with them, for to carry them thither, sith that they are but paper and parchment? 1As much may we say of the rule and habit of Saint Francis. What sayest thou Theophilus.
Hillarius. Thou makest a good reason. But by that compt, how can the bulls and pardons of the Pope be kept and preserued from the fire, which are sent thether by hole cart loades, & which some do cause to be buried with them, for to cary them thether, sith that they are but paper and parchment? 1Asmuch may we say of the rule and habite of Saint Fraunces. What sayest thou Theophilus.
Theophilus. There is yet an other point. If they will say that those which are in Purgatory, can no more merit, neither for themselves, nor for others, they cannot say the like (without speaking against the doctrine, which they have given us) of the saints which are in Paradise. For they do affirm, that they pray unto God for us, & that they are our intercessors & advocates towards 1him, and that in seeing God, which seeth all things, they do see all as in a Mirror or looking glass. If they do pray for us which are yet in this life, because of the great 2love and charity that they have towards us, wherefore do they not also willingly pray for their brethren detained and kept in the fire of Purgatory? For they should have a great deal more reason to do that, if they had any care or charge of men. And that for many causes.
First that the estate and condition of the one and the other agreeth more, then it doth of the dead to the living. Secondly, because that they themselves can better perceive of their estate and condition, and whether they be more in pain, or whether they be out of it, then we. For there is more agreeing of the spirits to the spirits, which are separated from the body, then to us which are yet wrapped in them. And which is more, if that the souls of
Purgatory do know, either by divine revelation, or by the report of Angels, or of the souls of them which daily do depart out of this world, that which is done upon earth, as your Doctors do testify and affirm, can they not aswell report and tell unto the Saints that which is done in Purgatory? It is not like to be true, i• there be any, but that they are better advertised then we, and that many ways. And if they be advertised, I cannot believe, that they are so inhumane and ungentle, if they do pray for the living, but that they do pray a great deal more for those poor souls: sith that they are in so grievous torments, without any comparison that may be in the world. I do speak always according to your doctrine. And this is the third reason, by the which I will conclude against the Priests, either that the Saints do not pray for the living: or ye it is in like manner necessary and a great deal more needful that they pray for the dead. Now if they pray for the dead, I am of an opinion, that we leave unto them all the charge.
Theophilus. There is yet an other poynt. If they will say that those which are in Purgatory, can no more merite, neyther for themselues, nor for others, they cannot say the lyke (without speaking agaynst the doctrine, which they haue giuen vs) of ye saints which are in Paradise. For they doe affirme, that they pray vnto God for vs, & that they are our intercessors & aduocates towards 1him, and that in séeing God, which séeth all things, they doe see all as in a Mirrour or looking glasse. If they doe pray for vs which are yet in this lyfe, bicause of the great 2loue and charitie that they haue towards vs, wherefore do they not also willyngly pray for their bretheren deteyned and kept in the fire of Purgatory? For they shoulde haue a greate deale more reason to doe that, if they had anye care or charge of menne. And that for manye causes.
⟨p. 278⟩First that the estate and condition of the one and the other agréeth more, then it doth of the dead to the lyuing. Secondly, bicause that they themselues can better perceiue of their estate and condition, and whether they bée more in payne, or whethether they be out of it, then we. For there is more agréeing of the spirits to the spirits, which are seperated from the bodye, then to vs which are yet wrapped in them. And which is more, if yt the soules of 3Purgatory doe know, eyther by diuine reuelation, or by the report of Angells, or of ye soules of them which dayly doe depart out of this worlde, that which is done vppon earth, as your Doctors doe testifie and affirme, can they not aswell reporte and tell vnto the Saints that which is done in Purgatory? It is not lyke to be true, i• there bée any, but that they are better aduertised then we, and that many wayes. And if they be aduertised, I cannot beléeue, that they are so inhumayne and vngentle, if they doe pray for the lyuing, but that they doe pray a great deale more for those poore soules: sith that they are in so gréeuous torments, without any comparison that may be in the world. I doe speake alwayes according to your doctrine. And this is the thirde reason, by the which I will conclude agaynst the Priestes, eyther that the Saints doe not praye for the lyuing: or ye it is in lyke manner necessary and a great dele more néedeful that they pray for the dead. Now if they pray for the dead, I am of an opinion, that we leaue vnto thē al the charge.
1The intercession of the Saints for us.The intercessiō of the Saints for vs.
2Grego. Rat. […] off. ••. 7 Rub. de off. Mort.Grego. Rat. 〈…〉 off. ••. 7 Rub. de off. Mort.
3Aug. li. de •ur. pro mor. Again. 13. q. 2 Fatendum Ra•. d•••. off. R•b. de off. mor.Aug. li. de •ur. pro mor. Agen. 13. q. 2 Fatendum Ra•. d•••. off. R•b. de off. mor.
For it agreeth better to them then unto us, sith that they are no more of this world, but of the other, in which are those that are dead: and that we have no more cure and charge but of the living. If they will deny that they do not pray for the dead, I have more just and lawful reason to deny unto them, that they do not pray for the living: Except peradventure they would say, that the Saints were as cruel, as th•• which will suffer those poor souls always to burn, which do bring unto them no money.
For it agreeth better to them then vnto vs, sith that they are no more of this world, but of the other, in which are those that are dead: and that we haue no more cure and charge but of the lyuing. If they will deny that they doe not pray for the dead, I haue more iust and lawfull reason to deny vnto them, that they doe not pray for the lyuing: Except peraduenture they would say, that the Saintes were as cruell, as th•• which will suffer those poore soules alwayes to burne, which do bring vnto them no money.
Hillarius. Thou hast put forth very strong reasons.
⟨image 288⟩But I will a little help Eusebius, to defend his cause, and will propound and put forth reasons against th••e to which thou shalt have much a doe to answer. Thou speakest of the saints, what wilt thou say, if I prove unto thee by lively & strong reasons, that the Pope 1hath more power and authority then they?
Hillarius. Thou hast put foorth very strong reasons.
⟨image 288⟩But I will a little helpe Eusebius, to defende his cause, and will propounde and put forth reasons against th••e to which thou shalt haue much a doe to aunswere. Thou speakest of the saints, what wilt thou saye, if I proue vnto thée by liuely & strong reasons, that the Pope 1hath more power and authoritie then they?
1The Pope hath more pow•r […] the sa••tsThe Pope hath more povv•r 〈…〉 the sa••ts
Theophilus. There needeth not an answer unto thy question. For one may understand it without speaking. There is not a Papist, but will •asely confess, that there is not a saint, which hath virtue nor power, but so much as God will give unto him.
Theophilus. There néedeth not an aunswere vnto thy question. For one may vnderstande it without speaking. There is not a Papist, but will •asely confesse, that there is not a saint, which hath vertue nor power, but so much as God will giue vnto him.
Hillarius. I have my meaning, and I will now make thee yield thy self vanquished. For thou hast already confessed unto me of thine own prop•• mo•th, & hast confirmed my proposition, the which I ••l yet better prove unto thee, and I will conclude all our disputation in a little syllogism. And I will take for my Major and for the first proposition of my antecedent, that which thou hast confessed unto me. Take then my Syllogism. God hath more power and authority then the Saints. Now the Pope is God. ••go, the Pope hath more power 1and authority then the Saints. The Major is already confessed by thee. It resteth now but for to prove the Minor, and the second proposition: and afterwards the consequence and conclusion shall be certain and •••uby•able. Now but that the Pope is God in •arth, thou ca•st not denyest, for many reasons, the which I will not n•we 2show forth. But I will do more. For I will prove, that he is not only the God on earth, but which is more, in heaven and in hell, and that he doth make things which God never did make.
Hillarius. I haue my meaninge, and I will nowe make thée ye•de thy selfe vanquished. For thou hast alreadie confessed vnto me of thine owne prop•• mo•th, & hast co•firmed my proposition, the which I ••l yet better proue vnto thee, and I will conclu•e all our dispu•a•ion in a little sillogisme. And I will take for my Maior and for the first proposition of my antecedent, that which thou hast confessed vnto me. Take then my Syll•gisme. God hath more power and authoritie then the Saintes. Nowe the Pope is God. ••go, the Pope hath more power 1and authoritie then the Saints. The Maior is alreadie confessed by thee. It resteth now but for to pr•ue the Minor, and the second proposition: and afterwards the consequence and conclusion s•albe cert•ine and •••uby•able. Nowe but that the Pope is God in •arth, thou ca•st not d•ny•st, for many reasons, the which I will not n•we 2sh•we forth. But I will do more. For I will pr•ue, that he is not onely the God on earth, but which is more, in heauen and in hell, and that he doth make things which God neuer did make.
Hillarius. It is very true, and thou thy self shalt Judge it, provided that thou do hear my reasons. I will not allege for confirmation of my theme, that which saint Paul hath written of Antichrist, the man of sin, 1the son of perdition, which exalteth himself above all that is called god, or which is worshipped, so y• he shall sit as god in the Temple of God, and show himself as God: Notwithstanding that that Prophecy and titles do agree marvellously well to that God of whom we speak. But I will proceed by an other way, the which shall serve for an exposition of those words of Saint Paul.
Hillarius. It is very true, and thou thy selfe shalt Iudge it, prouided that thou do heare my reasons. I will not alledge for confirmation of my theame, that which saint Paul hath written of Antechrist, the man of sinne, 1the sonne of perdition, which exalteth himselfe aboue all that is called god, or which is worshipped, so y• he shal sit as god in the Temple of God, and shew himselfe as God: Notwithstanding that that Prophecie and titles doe agrée meruaylously well to that God of whom we speake. But I will procéede by an other way, the which shall serue for an exposition of those words of Saynt Paul.
Theophilus. If thou doest as thou sayest the Pope and all the Papists shall be much bound unto thee. For they say only that he is God in earth. Now if he be but God in the earth, he hath then nothing in heaven: And he must not open the gates of Paradise unto the souls of Purgatory. And so I may serve my self with their public witness, for to prove that which I said of his keys, which cannot be stretched forth out of this earth.
Theophilus. If thou doest as thou sayst the Pope and all the Papists shall be much bounde vnto thée. For they say onely that he is God in earth. Now if he be but God in the earth, he hath then nothing in heauen: And he must not open the gates of Paradise vnto the soules of Purgatory. And so I may serue my selfe with their publyque witnesse, for to proue that which I said of his keyes, which cannot be stretched foorth out of this earth.
Hillarius. A man may easily reply thereon. For according to their doctrine, Purgatory is in the earth. Wherefore, sith hat he is God in earth, he may well have some power. There should be an other reason, if Purgatory were 1between the Moon and the earth, where Plutarch putteth it: except they will say that with the earth they do also compare the air and all the other elements, making the Pope aswell God in the air, water and fire, as in the earth: at the least thou wilt not deny, but that he may well have the keys of hell, for to lead thither the souls: and 2that he is the God of the same, if it be in the centre of the earth, according to the common opinion of his Doctors. But for to come unto the matter, thou which art a Theologian knowest, that there be two manner of ways to 3see and know God. There is a manner to see him before: a•• a manner to see him behind. To see him before, that is to say in his being, glory, and majesty, it is not given unto mortal man. For he shall not be capable of such vision ⟨image 289⟩and knowledge. And therefore he answered unto Moses, who desired to see his glory, that he should not see 4it before, but he would show unto him only his hinder and back parts. I do understand and mean according to that which I have learned of some Theologians, that to see and know the back parts of God, that is to see and know him by his works, by his effects, and in his creatures. For sith that he is incomprehensible unto man in his substance, glory and majesty, the way and manner that he hath given unto man for to know him, is this: to wit, by his word: by his works: by his effects: and his creatures: with which man ought to content himself without enquiring curiously of the nature and essence of God, the which we cannot comprehend. 5For we have no need to enquire what •e is in himself: but what he is towards us: the which he hath manifested unto us chiefly by Jesus Christ his son: by the works that he hath done and made in him & by him, and that he doth always. And the manner of knowledge, after the manner of the speaking 6of the dialecticians & Logicians, may be called A posteriori. I will then prove A posteriori, the deity of the Pope: that is to say, by his works and by his effects.
Hillarius. A man may easely reply thereon. For according to their doctrine, Purgatory is in the earth. Wherefore, sith hat he is God in earth, he may well haue some power. There should be an other reason, if Purgatory were 1betweee the Moone and the earth, where Plutarch putteth it: except they will say that with the earth they doe also compare the ayre and all the other elements, making the Pope aswell God in the ayre, water and fire, as in the earth: at the least thou wilt not deny, but that he may wel haue the keyes of hell, for to leade thether the soules: and 2that he is the God of the same, if it be in the center of the earth, according to the common opinion of his Doctors. But for to come vnto the matter, thou which art a Theologian knowest, that there be two manner of wayes to 3see and know God. There is a manner to sée him before: a•• a manner to see him behinde. To see him before, that is to say in his beeing, glory, and maiestie, it is not giuen vnto mortall man. For he shall not be capable of such vision ⟨image 289⟩and knowledge. And therefore hée aunswered vnto Moses, who desired to see his glory, that he should not sée 4it before, but he would shew vnto him onely his hinder and backe parts. I doe vnderstand and meane according to that which I haue learned of some Theologians, that to see and know the backe partes of God, that is to see and know him by his workes, by his effects, and in his creatures. For sith that he is incomprehensible vnto man in his substaunce, glory and maiestie, the way and manner that he hath giuen vnto man for to know him, is this: to witte, by his word: by his workes: by his effects: and his creatures: with which man ought to content himselfe without enquiring curiously of the nature and essence of God, the which we cannot comprehende. 5For we haue no neede to enquire what •e is in himselfe: but what he is towards vs: the which he hath manifested vnto vs chiefely by Iesus Christ his sonne: by the workes that hée hath done and made in him & by him, and that he doth alwaies. And ye maner of knowledge, after the maner of ye speaking 6
1The place of Purgatory. Plut. l•. de fa••• qu• v•situr in Luna•.
2The keys of hell.The keyes of hell.
3The manners to know God exod. ••. • 23 To see God before & […]The maners to knovv God •xod. ••. • 23 To see God bef•re & 〈…〉
4••o. ••. •. 20
5what knowledge of god is necessary for usvvhat knovvledge of god is necessary for vs
Thomas. I will make here a little incident or state. Thou hast now altogether astemed me, in hearing thee speak. For thou art run more deeper and profounder in Theology, then ever Theophilus hath yet done, which nevertheless is a better Divine and Theologian then thou art.
Thomas. I will make heere a lyttle incident or state. Thou hast now altogether astemed mée, in hearing thée speake. For thou art runne more déeper and profounder in Theologie, then euer Theophilus hath yet done, which neuerthelesse is a better Diuine and Theologian then thou art.
Hillarius. I have also learned the greatest part of that which I know of Theology of him. But I would also that thou shouldest know, that notwithstanding that you do account me but for a fool and a babbler, yet I am notwithstanding some thing wiser then you do think, but that wisdom continueth not with me much.
For I will now cast my self into an other Theology, contrary unto this. Yet nevertheless for to enter thereunto, and the better to declare the difference that is between ⟨p. 280⟩the divine Theology and the Theology Papal, I will begin my probation by the authority of Jeremiah saying: 1Can a man make those his gods? He rebuketh the Idolatry of the people of Israel, and therefore he maketh that 2demand, as of a thing impossible. For how can a man make gods, sith that he cannot be made himself, if God do not make him? How shall he then make gods?
Yet nevertheless the Pope attributeth that power unto himself. Wherefore it must needs be that he be more then man: yea more then God. For we do not read that God did ever make gods, to take God in his proper signification. For he alone will be God, and there can be no more but one alone: or otherwise he should not be God. Except 3we will do as Plato, to have a great God, which maketh other little gods. Therefore hath he said that he is God, 4and that he will not give his glory and power to none other. But the Pope taketh authority and power not only to make Gods and Saints, but also to unmake them again: the which I will prove unto thee briefly. And without alleging many examples for to avoid prolix itie, I will put forth but one, by which one may judge of the others. I will take Boniface the eight of whom Platin giveth this witness, for y• ep•loge & conclusion of his legend, 5saying: In this sort & manner died Boniface, he which enforced himself more to give terror & fear unto emperors, kings princes, nations & people, then to induce & lead them in religion: & which endeavoured himself to give & take away kingdoms: to chase & banish men & to bring them again at his 6pleasure: having more greater thirst and desire of the gold, the which he got out of all parts, more then one could declare. Now this differeth not from that which the Decrees and Canons d• witness of the power. of the Pope, saying:
Hillarius. I haue also learned the greatest parte of that which I know of Theologie of him. But I woulde also that thou shouldest know, that notwithstanding that you doe accompt me but for a foole and a babler, yet I am notwithstanding some thing wiser then you doe thinke, but that wisdome continueth not with mee much.
For I will now cast my selfe into an other Theologie, contrary vnto this. Yet neuerthelesse for to enter therevnto, and the better to declare the difference that is betwéene ⟨p. 280⟩the diuine Theologie and the Theologie Papall, I will beginne my probation by the author•tie of Ieremie saying: 1Can a man make those his gods? He rebuketh the Idolatrie of the people of Israel, and therefore he maketh that 2demaund, as of a thing impossible. For how can a man make gods, sith that he cannot be made himselfe, if God doe not make him? How shal he then make gods?
Yet neuerthelesse the Pope attributeth that power vnto himselfe. Wherefore it must néedes be that he be more then man: yea more then God. For we doe not read that God did euer make gods, to take God in his proper signification. For he alone will be God, and there can be no more but one alone: or otherwise he should not be God. Except 3we will doe as Plato, to haue a great God, which maketh other lyttle gods. Therefore hath he sayd that he is God, 4and that he will not giue his glory and power to none other. But the Pope taketh authoritie and power not onely to make Gods and Saints, but also to vnmake them agayne: the which I will proue vnto thée briefely. And without alleadgeing many examples for to auoyde proli• itie, I will put foorth but one, by which one may iudge of the others. I will take Boniface the eight of whom Platin giueth this witnes, for y• ep•loge & conclusion of his legend, 5saying: In this sort & maner died Boniface, he which enforced himself more to giue terror & fear vnto emperors, kings princes, nations & people, then to induce & lead thē in religion: & which endeuoured himself to giue & take away kingdomes: to chase & banish men & to bring them againe at his
That it appertaineth unto him that he may give, take away, change transport the empires & kingdoms, principalities & s•ig••or•es, as many among them of long time have practised, and showed by effect, of whom the examples shall be to long to rehearse. Now we cannot deny, but that y• same is an act ⟨image 290⟩proper unto God alone, according to the witness of Daniel 1and of all the Prophets. Sith then that the pope usurpeth unto himself, that is already a c•rt••ne witness of his de•tie: And without abandoning and forsaking Boniface, 2he himself did not show himself negligent in that matter, against Philip king of France, of whom he demanded the Arch••a•ry of Na•bon, for to declare unto him, that if he did not release out of pr•s•n a Bishop which by him was sent thither, that his kingdom was co••••a•• unto the Church, and that the king was excommunicated and cursed: and that he would deliver and absolve all the Frenchmen of the oath and f•a•t•• that they made unto the king.
That it aperteineth vnto him that he may giue, take away, chaunge transport the empires & kingd•ms, principalites & s•ig••or•es, as many amōg thē of long time haue practised, and shewed by effect, of whom the examples shalbe to long to rehearse. Now we cannot deny, but that y• same is an act ⟨image 290⟩proper vnto God alone, according to the witnesse of Dan•el 1and of all the Prophets. Sith then that the pope vsurpeth vnto himselfe, that is already a c•rt••ne witnesse of his de•tie: And without abandoning and forsaking Boniface, 2he himselfe did not sh•w himselfe ne•lygent in that matter, agaynst Philip king of Fraunce, of whom he demaunded the Arch••a•ry of Na•bon, for to declare vnto him, that if he did not release out of pr•s•n a Bish•ppe which by him was sent thether, that his kingdome was co••••a•• vnto the Church, and that the king was excommunicated and cursed: and that he would delyuer and absolue all the Frenchmen of the oath and f•a•t•• that they made vnto the king.
1[…] •, 3, 4. •〈…〉•, 3, 4. •
2Plot in •it. B•••f 8 […] •ing of […]Plat in •it. B•••f 8 〈…〉•ing of 〈…〉
Theophilus. Behold there a goodly act of deity. But there is nothing which is more common unto them then that.
H•ll•rius. I will yet declare unto thee of others which are no less available, the which Plati•• rehearseth in like manner. What do y• words signify y• he said unto Prochet the Archbishop of Genes, when he did cast down himself 1at his f••te upon Ashwed••sday? Where the Priests were accustomed to say: Remember man that thou art ashes, and into ashes thou shalt return again: he said unto him, in changing some words: Remember man that thou art a Gibell• and with the Gibelli•s thou shalt return into ashes. And after that he had said unto him that, he did not put the ashes upon the head as the custom is, but did cast them in his eyes, and deprived him of his Archbishoprick•: Afterwards he restored •t to him again, when he did understand that the Cardinals were n•t […] red and come from Genes. Thou doest here s•• that he maketh and unmaketh Bishops, as he list, and speaketh as a God: He maketh men to r•t•••n• into ashes, even as from ashes they came. And for to make that goodly act show the fairer, I will rehearse unto the two others, which are yet more better witnesses of the Popish d••tie.
The first is of Stephen the sixth, who wa• so mad against ⟨p. 281⟩2Pope Formosus, that after that he had taken his counsel, 3caused his body to be taken out of his tomb, afterwards spoiled him of his pontifical & Popish apparel, and in steed of them caused him to •ee cladded with lay mens apparel, and did cut off the two fingers of the right hand, the which the Priests used in their consecration, afterwards, caused them to be cast into the ••ud Tiber, and commanded that he should be buried as a lay man, in the grave and burial o• y• lay men. Now consider, •f one Pope hath such power over an other Pope, which nevertheless is God, and not only God, but can make God, and unmakers of Gods, which do take power of him to make Gods, let us think what power he can have over others. For in the time that Formosus was Pope, he could not have been in the Popedom, nor in the order of Priesthood, but y• he did make Gods, of his two fingers which were cut off, and cast into Tiber. Furthermore, how many Cardinals, Bishops, Priests, and Monks were made 4during his Popedom: which all of them were forgers, and makers of Gods?
Theophilus. Behold there a goodly acte of deitie. But there is nothing which is more common vnto them then that.
H•ll•rius. I will yet declare vnto thée of others which are no lesse aua•leable, the which Plati•• rehearseth in like maner. What do y• words signifie y• he sayd vnto Prochet the Archbishop of Genes, when he did cast down himselfe 1at his f••te vpon Ashwed••sday? Wher the Priests were accustomed to say: Remember man that thou art ashes, and into ashes thou shalt •etourne agayne: he sayde vnto him, in chaunging some words: Remember man that thou art a Gibell• and with the Gibelli•s thou shalt retourne into ashes. And after that he had sayd vnto him that, hée did not put the ashes vpon the head as the custome is, but did cast them in his eyes, and depriued him of his Archbishoprick•: Afterwardes he restored •t to him agayne, when he did vnderstand that the Card••als were n•t 〈…〉 red and come from Genes. Thou doest héere s•• that hée maketh and vnmaketh Bishops, as he lyst, and speaketh as a God: He maketh men to r•t•••n• into ashes, euen as from ashes they came. And for to make that goodly act shew the fayrer, I wil rehearse vnto the two others, which are yet more better witnesses of the Popish d••tie.
The first is of Stephen the sixt, who wa• so mad against ⟨p. 281⟩2Pope Formosus, that after that he had taken his counsel,
1Prochet Archbishop of Genes. […] d•••. […] The ashes of pope Bo••ace, Me•eto homo. quia […] ••, & •• […] rever••r••. G•bell••s. Memeto hom• quia G•bell••••••, & cum Gibell••• […] re••r[…].Prochet Archbyshoppe of Genes. 〈…〉 d•••. 〈…〉 The as•hes of pope Bo••ace, Me•eto homo. quia 〈…〉••, & ••〈…〉 reuer••r••. G•bell••s. Memeto hom• quia G•bell••••••, & cum Gibell•••〈…〉 re••r〈…〉.
2
ReformersLausanne/Geneva
Reformer of Lausanne and colleague of Calvin.
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of ye dialecticians & Logitians, may be called A posteriori. I will then proue A posteriori, the deite of ye Pope: that is to saye, by his workes and by his effects.
pleasure: hauing more greater thirst and desire of the gold, the which he got out of al parts, more then one could declare. Now this differeth not from that which the Decrées and Canons d• witnesse of the power. of the Pope, saying:
caused his body to be taken out of his tombe, afterwardes spoiled him of his pontifical & Popish apparel, and in stéed of them caused him to •ée cladded with laye mens apparell, and did cut off the two fingers of the right hande, the which the Priestes vsed in their consecration, afterwards, caused them to be cast into the ••ud Tiber, and commaunded that he should be buryed as a lay man, in the graue and burial o• y• lay men. Now consider, •f one Pope hath such power ouer an other Pope, which neuerthelesse is God, and not onely God, but can make God, and vnmakers of Goddes, which doe take power of him to make Gods, let vs thinke what power hée can haue ouer others. For in the time that Formosus was Pope, he could not haue bene in the Popedome, nor in the order of Priesthoode, but y• hée did make Gods, of his two fingers which were cut off, and cast into Tyber. Furthermore, how many Cardinals, Bishops, Priestes, and Monkes were made
during his Popedome: which all of them were forgers, and makers of Gods?
The ••g••nd
3madness •• Pope Stephen against •o••osus.madnesse •• Pope Stephen against •o••osus.
4Plot. in vit. Steph. •. St•ll••leri•or• O •e•era•d• sacerd•tum dign•tas, si digne & sacerdo ta•••er vixeris •ntra quorum manus, velut in v•ero virginis, filius d•i incarnatur. Item. Iste qui crea••t me, ded•t m•hi crear• s•. Qui crea•it •e sine me, creature med•ante me. The creatours of the CreatorPlat. in vit. Steph. •. St•ll••leri•or• O •e•era•d• sacerd•tum dign•tas, si digne & sacerdo ta•••er vixeris •ntra quorum manus, velut in v•ero virginis, filius d•i incarnatur. Item. Iste qui crea••t me, ded•t m•hi crear• s•. Qui crea•it •e sine me, creatur med•ante me. The creatours of the Cr•a•our
