A14462:172
A14462:172
The first part of the Christian instruction, and general so[m]me of the doctrine, contained in the holy Scriptures wherein the principal points of the religion are familiarly handled by dialogues, very necessary to be read of all Christians. Translated into English, by John Shute, according to the late copy set forth, by th'author Master Peter Viret. 1565. Overseen and perused, according to the order appointed, by the Queens majesties injunctions.The firste parte of the Christian instruction, and generall so[m]me of the doctrine, conteyned in the holy Scriptures wherein the principall pointes of the religion are familiarly handled by dialogues, very necessary to be read of all Christians. Translated into Englishe, by Iohn Shute, accordyng to the late copy set forth, by th'author Maister Peter Viret. 1565. Ouersene and perused, accordyng to the order appointed, by the Queenes maiesties iniunctions.
London: printed by John Day, 1565London: printed by Iohn Day, 1565
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
T. But God hath not only kept this order, in his civil laws, but also in those that he hath given for matters of Religion, which touch the soul. And beside that, those same Civil laws, which he gave, were they not given to help toward the observation, of those which properly had ⟨p. 64⟩regard to the soul. D. I deny not that which thou sayest, but thou oughtest to consider, that this change of laws & ordinances, the which God hath used, even in the very matter of Religion, doth not otherwise appertain, but to the ceremonies, which are but outward things, and not at all, of the proper substance of the unchangeable will of God. And therefore the ceremonial laws have a great agreement, with the positive laws: for as the civil laws are given for conservation of the civill policy, and to help also to lead men to yield that obedience unto God, which they owe unto him: even in like sort the ceremonial laws do serve to entertain the Ecclesiastic policy, & to frame men to the true service of God. But for that the means by the which this may be done, may be diverse, and that some of them may be mete for some time, in certain places and for certain people, which should not be mete for others: God hath therefore left it at liberty, provided that the rule which I touched before, be therein alway observed. For these things are in this respect as things indifferent, and the change that in them happeneth, doth not proceed of God, ne yet of any inconstancy y• is in his will, but of our weakness and inconstancy, saving only that God of his goodness, doth willingly condescend to our rudeness and capacity. But there is an other reason in his will which he hath declared to be eternal, and in the things that he hath once de clared to be for ever good or evil, and that depend of the same, and are not only as entries as are the ceremonies, for in such matters he never changed any thing, nor never made law, by the which he allowed Idolatry, blasphemy, adultery, murder, & other like wickedness, which he hath once forbidden by his law, which is nothing else, but a testimony of his eternal will, and of the natural law, which is naturally imprinted in the hearts of men, by the which he hath put in them an impression of his eternal will, which can never be clean plucked out.
T. BUt God hath not onely kepte thys order, in his ciuile lawes, but also in those that he hath geuē for matters of Religion, whiche touche the soule. And beside that, those same Ciuile lawes, whiche he gaue, were they not geuen to helpe towarde the obseruation, of those whiche properly had ⟨p. 64⟩regard to the soule. D. I denie not that which thou sayest, but thou oughtest to consider, that this chaunge of lawes & ordinaūces, the whiche God hath vsed, euen in the very matter of Religion, doth not otherwise appertayne, but to the ceremonies, whiche are but outwarde thinges, and not at all, of the proper substaunce of the vnchaungeable wyll of God. And therefore the ceremoniall lawes haue a greate agreement, with the positiue lawes: for as the ciuil lawes are gyuen for conseruation of the ciuill policie, and to helpe also to leade men to yelde that obedience vnto God, whiche they owe vnto him: euen in lyke sort the ceremonial lawes do serue to entertayne the Ecclesiastique policie, & to frame men to the true seruice of God. But for that the meanes by the whiche this may be done, may be diuerse, and that some of them may be mete for some tyme, in certayne places and for certayne people, whiche shoulde not be mete for others: God hath therfore left it at libertie, prouided that the rule which I touched before, be therin alway obserued. For these thynges are in this respecte as thynges indifferent, and the chaunge that in them happeneth, doth not procede of God, ne yet of any inconstancie y• is in his will, but of our weaknes and inconstancie, sauyng onely that God of hys goodnes, doth willingly condiscend to our rudenesse and capacitie. But there is an other reason in his wil which he hath declared to be eternall, and in the thinges that he hath once de clared to be for euer good or euill, and that depende of the same, and are not onely as entries as are the ceremonies, for in such matters he neuer changed any thing, nor neuer made law, by the whiche he allowed Idolatrie, blasphemie, adultery, murder, & other lyke wickednesse, whiche he hath once forbidden by his law, whiche is nothyng els, but a testimonie of his eternall will, and of the naturall law, which is naturally imprinted in the hartes of men, by the whiche he hath put in them an impression of his eternal will, which can neuer be cleane plucked out.
But for so much as it was ⟨p. 65⟩marvellously darkened by sin, and that it did remain as overwhelmed and buried, and in manner in us clean wiped out, it hath pleased God more plainly, to declare the same unto us, & to awake us, to the end we should give the greater regard unto it, and hath given it unto us, as well by writing as by word of mouth, and doth put us oftentimes in mind thereof by the ministry of his word.
But for so much as it was ⟨p. 65⟩meruelously darckened by sinne, and that it did remaine as ouerwhelmed and buried, and in maner in vs cleane wipte out, it hath pleased God more playnly, to declare the same vnto vs, & to awake vs, to the end we should gyue the greater regarde vnto it, and hath gyuen it vnto vs, as well by writting as by word of mouth, and doth put vs oftentimes in mynde therof by the ministerie of his worde.
T. IT shall then according to thy opinion, be lawful for men, to dispense with ceremonies, and with civil laws and to change them at their pleasures. D. My purpose tendeth not to such an end. For when I do declare for what cause God hath left in this, greater liberty unto men then in the rest, whereof we have spoken, I will not therefore say, although it be lawful for God to change all those things at his pleasure, according as he doth know it, to be mete for the health of man, that man should challenge to him self such a licence: but contrarily when they have received any ordinance of God, be it ceremonies or such like, they ought not at all to change any thing thereof, until that God him self, which only hath liberty so to do, do it: as we see it hath come to pass by the ceremonies, which were observed in the Church of Israel, which were abolished by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, for that they were not ordained, to serve but only until that time. Besides this, in that, in the which God hath given no certain, and expressed ordinance, but hath left those things in our liberty, as indifferent, we may use that liberty, which he hath left unto us, governing the same always according to the rule of faith and of charity, If there be then any question, as touching the ceremonies ordained in the law of Moses, we must then have regard unto that part of them, which was abolished by the coming of Jesus Christ, which may not now be observed, without ⟨p. 66⟩renouncing of Jesus Christ: as though men doubted whether he had accomplished or no that which was figured by them. If there be any question of Sacraments, ordained by our Lord Jesus Christ, and of the ceremonies, and of the discipline, which he him self hath ordained: we must then take good heed that we change no jot thereof, or to add, or diminish in any thing, that toucheth the substance of such things. If there be question of mans traditions, and of the ancient Canons & Decrees, it is requisite to consider, wherein and how they do agree, with the word of God, & also how they may serve, to the edification of the Church, or how they may hinder the same.
T. IT shall then accordyng to thy opiniō, be lawful for mē, to dispense with ceremonies, and with ciuile lawes and to chaunge them at their pleasures. D. My purpose tendeth not to such an ende. For when I do declare for what cause God hath left in this, greater libertie vnto men then in the rest, wherof we haue spokē, I wil not therfore say, although it be lawfull for God to chaūge all those thyngs at his pleasure, according as he doth know it, to be mete for the health of man, that man should chalenge to him self such a licēce: but contrarily when they haue receiued any ordinaunce of God, be it ceremonies or such lyke, they ought not at all to chaunge any thyng therof, vntill that God him selfe, which onely hath libertie so to do, do it: as we see it hath come to passe by the ceremonies, which were obserued in the Church of Israell, whiche were abolished by the commynge of our Lord Iesus Christ, for that they were not ordained, to serue but onely vntil that time. Besides this, in that, in the which God hath gyuen no certaine, and expressed ordinaunce, but hath left those things in our libertie, as indifferent, we may vse that libertie, whiche he hath left vnto vs, gouernyng the same alwayes according to the rule of faith and of charitie, If ther be then any questiō, as touching the ceremonies ordeined in the law of Moses, we must then haue regard vnto that parte of them, whiche was abolished by the commyng of Iesus Christ, whiche may not now be obserued, without
For there are many (I say even of those, which are not contrary to the word of God) which were good for a time, which not only would not serve at this present, but would do great hurt, because the time doth not now require that, which it then did when they were decreed. And therefore, if that of the very Apostles, touching the abstinence from blood and from strangled flesh, which was decreed in the Council at Jerusalem, was abolished in time convenient, when the usage thereof was no more necessary in the Church: how much more reason have we, to do the like of others, that are of such quality, when that the time and the edification of the Church should require it? T. I agree well to all this: But there is beside these an other sort of people, of whom we have not yet spoken, which seem to have more reason then the others of whom we have now made mention: but it may be, that we have spoken enough for one time, it shall be best that we leave them until an other time. For I do not doubt, but we shall have occasion to discourse sufficiently of them. D. Who are they I beseech thee? T. They be those that wait for a Council. D. And because that we have happened upon this matter of the Council, I am well content that we put it over to an other time: for it doth ⟨p. 67⟩well merit that men look narrowly unto it, for so much as many men depend upon them.
For there are many (I say euen of those, whiche are not contrarie to the worde of God) whiche were good for a tyme, which not onely would not serue at this present, but woulde do greate hurte, bycause the tyme doth not nowe require that, whiche it then dyd when they were decreed. And therefore, if that of the verye Apostles, touchynge the abstinence from bloud and from strangled fleshe, whiche was decreed in the Counsell at Ierusalem, was abolished in tyme conuenient, when the vsage thereof was no more necessarie in the Churche: howe muche more reason haue wee, to doe the lyke of others, that are of suche qualitie, when that the tyme and the edification of the Churche shoulde require it? T. I agree well to all thys: But there is beside these an other sorte of people, of whome wee haue not yet spoken, whiche seeme to haue more reason then the others of whome wee haue nowe made mention: but it maye bee, that wee haue spoken ynoughe for one tyme, it shall be beste that wee leaue them vntill an other tyme. For I doe not doubte, but wee shall haue occasion to discourse sufficientlye of them. D. Who are they I beseche thee? T. They bee those that wayte for a Councell. D. And bycause that we haue happened vppon thys matter of the Councel, I am wel content that we put it ouer to an other tyme: for it doth
Because, that the looking for a general Council, to appease the troubles that are in Christendom in causes of Religion, doth feed and entertain many poor ignorant men in vain hope, and doth let them from the diligent searching out of those things, that belong to their salvation, I have determined fully to entreat of the matter in Dialogues following, in which I will plainly declare, what hope the Christians may have of a Council, and what they may think will come of it, and how hard it will be to assemble it, and what issue, or what good, or evil we ought to look for of it, and what profit the lawful Councils may bring to Christianity, and which is the true Council, upon the which the true Christians ought to repose and to instruct their consciences. And in handling of these matters, I will touch chiefly in this Dialogue, what hope we may have in such affairs, as well of their part, that are called Prelates of the Church, as of the part of the Christian princes, as they have given us well and sufficiently to know by examples, and by experience that we have had already of the Council of Trent. And after that there is some thing said of the Interim, and of such solicitors & workers as will join Jesus Christ, & Antichrist together, & in stead of Christians, make Samaritans, & of the opinion of such as say, that the Council can not err, which is also continued in the other Dialogues following, in the which I do a little paint & set forth, the manner of proceeding, ⟨p. 68⟩which the Papists observe in their Councils, and I do con pare it with that, which God did use in his Council that he held with his people, first in the mount of Sinai, and after that in the hill of Zion. I do show also what preparation there ought to be for the doctrine of such Councils, and how that those two Councils, contain all the doctrine of the old and new Testament, & how they do so agree together, that they both tend to one, upon whom only it behoveth us all to stay.
BYcause, that the lookynge for a generall Councell, to appease the troubles yt are in Christendome in causes of Religion, doth feede and entertayne many poore ignoraunt men in vayne hope, and doth let thē from the diligent searchynge out of those thinges, that belong to their saluation, I haue determined fully to entreate of the matter in Dialogues folowing, in whiche I will playnely declare, what hope the Christians may haue of a Coūcel, and what they may thinck wil come of it, and how hard it wilbe to assemble it, and what issue, or what good, or euil we ought to looke for of it, and what profite the lawfull Councelles maye bryng to Christiantie, and whiche is the true Councell, vpon the which ye true Christians ought to repose and to instructe theyr consciences. And in handling of these matters, I wil touch chiefly in this Dialogue, what hope wee maye haue in such affaires, as wel of their part, that are called Prelates of the Church, as of the parte of the Christian princes, as they haue gyuen vs well and sufficiently to know by examples, and by experience that we haue had already of the Councell of Trent. And after that there is some thing sayd of the Interim, and of such soliciters & worckers as will ioyne Iesus Christ, & Antichriste together, & in stede of Christiās, make Samaritās, & of the opinion of such as say, yt the Coūcel cā not erre, which is also continued in ye other Dialogues folowing, in ye which I do a little paint & set forth, ye maner of proceding,
Whereupon also I make mention of the agreement and difference that may be between the old and new Testament, between Moses and Jesus Christ, between the law & the Gospel, and the law which is called the law of grace, and the law of rigour, & of the abolishing & also of the usage of the law of Moses, and of the vengeance of God, which is prepared against those that will not willingly receive the Decrees, & Canons, of this great and godly Council, and shall abuse his word, and of the great grace: which he hath offered to men, in his son Jesus Christ our Lord, which things shall be entreated of every one in his place. And as touching this present Dialogue, I have entitled it, the waiting for the Council, or the neutrals, in respect of the principal matters that therein are handled or entreated of.
Wherupon also I make mention of the agrement and difference that may be betwene the old and newe Testamēt, betwene Moses and Iesus Christ, betwene the law & the Gosspell, and the law which is called the lawe of grace, and the law of rigour, & of the abolishing & also of the vsage of ye law of Moses, and of the vengeance of God, which is prepared agaynst those that will not willingly receyue the Decrees, & Canons, of this great and godly Councel, and shall abuse his worde, and of the great grace: whiche he hath offered to men, in his sonne Iesus Christ our Lord, which things shal be entreated of euery one in his place. And as touching this present Dialogue, I haue intituled it, the waitynge for the Coūcell, or the newtrals, in respect of the principall matters that therin are handled or entreated of.
Daniel. Timothy.
Daniel. Timothe.
D. Thou dost well remember where we left, as touching those that wait for a Council. T. Yea in deed. D. Will these men tarry to believe in God, to serve him, and to enquire of his will, until the time ⟨p. 69⟩that the Council hath ben holden, and that it hath determined what order of life we should follow? T. It seemeth that these men take their foundation, of that which thou hast said, that if they should serve God truly, it were first requisite to be well instructed and assured of his will. D. Wherefore do they not then forthwith and withal diligence enquire thereof? why do they then tarry for a Council? T. Because they say, that in so great diversity of opinions, as at this present day, is in Christendom, in matters of Religion, they know not which to follow in surety. For they see that some teach after one sort, & the others after an other: & that there is often times as great contrariety of opinions, as between white and black, and between fire and water. That which one alloweth, an other disalloweth: that which one holdeth for Christian doctrine, and for true service of God, an other condemneth it as heresy, or else as superstition, hypocrisy, Idolatry, and Apostasy. And besides this, there are of both sides personages of great appearance, great understanding and great authority, according to the judgement of the world: notwithstanding the multitude is far greater of the one side, then of the other: men hear their discourses, men read their writings & books, there are goodly reasons of both parts, which every of them endeavoureth to prove and confirm by the holy Scriptures, and by all means possible. In this cause, what shall a poor man do, which feareth to offend God, and hath a good desire to serve him, according to his will, but he may not well attain to the knowledge thereof, because that which the one sayeth is the will of God, the other saith it is not the will of God.
D. THou doost well remēber where we left, as touchyng those that wayt for a Councell. T. Yea in dede. D. Will these men tary to beleue in God, to serue him, and to enquire of his will, vntill the tyme ⟨p. 69⟩that the Councell hath ben holden, and that it hath determined what order of lyfe we should folowe? T. It semeth that these mē take their foundation, of that which thou hast said, that if they should serue God truly, it were first requisite to be well instructed and assured of his will. D. Wherfore do they not then forthwith and withall diligence enquire therof? why do they then tary for a Councell? T. Bycause they say, that in so great diuersitie of opinions, as at this present day, is in Christendome, in matters of Religion, they know not whiche to folow in surety. For they see that some teache after one sort, & the others after an other: & that ther is often tymes as great contrarietie of opinions, as betwene white and blacke, and betwene fire and water. That whiche one aloweth, an other disaloweth: that whiche one holdeth for Christiā doctrine, and for true seruice of God, an other condempneth it as heresie, or els as superstition, hypocrisie, Idolatrie, and Apostasie. And besides this, ther are of both sides personnages of great apparance, great vnderstanding and great authoritie, accordyng to the iudgement of the worlde: notwithstandyng the multitude is farre greater of the one side, then of the other: men heare their discourses, men read their writtinges & bookes, there are goodly reasons of both partes, which euery of them endeuoureth to proue and confirme by the holy Scriptures, and by all meanes possible. In this cause, what shal a poore man do, whiche feareth to offend God, and hath a good desire to serue him, accordyng to his wil, but he may not wel attain to ye knowlege therof, bicause that which the one saieth is the wil of God, the other sayth it is not the will of God.