A14462:176
A14462:176
The first part of the Christian instruction, and general so[m]me of the doctrine, contained in the holy Scriptures wherein the principal points of the religion are familiarly handled by dialogues, very necessary to be read of all Christians. Translated into English, by John Shute, according to the late copy set forth, by th'author Master Peter Viret. 1565. Overseen and perused, according to the order appointed, by the Queens majesties injunctions.The firste parte of the Christian instruction, and generall so[m]me of the doctrine, conteyned in the holy Scriptures wherein the principall pointes of the religion are familiarly handled by dialogues, very necessary to be read of all Christians. Translated into Englishe, by Iohn Shute, accordyng to the late copy set forth, by th'author Maister Peter Viret. 1565. Ouersene and perused, accordyng to the order appointed, by the Queenes maiesties iniunctions.
London: printed by John Day, 1565London: printed by Iohn Day, 1565
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
T. IT shall then according to thy opinion, be lawful for men, to dispense with ceremonies, and with civil laws and to change them at their pleasures. D. My purpose tendeth not to such an end. For when I do declare for what cause God hath left in this, greater liberty unto men then in the rest, whereof we have spoken, I will not therefore say, although it be lawful for God to change all those things at his pleasure, according as he doth know it, to be mete for the health of man, that man should challenge to him self such a licence: but contrarily when they have received any ordinance of God, be it ceremonies or such like, they ought not at all to change any thing thereof, until that God him self, which only hath liberty so to do, do it: as we see it hath come to pass by the ceremonies, which were observed in the Church of Israel, which were abolished by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, for that they were not ordained, to serve but only until that time. Besides this, in that, in the which God hath given no certain, and expressed ordinance, but hath left those things in our liberty, as indifferent, we may use that liberty, which he hath left unto us, governing the same always according to the rule of faith and of charity, If there be then any question, as touching the ceremonies ordained in the law of Moses, we must then have regard unto that part of them, which was abolished by the coming of Jesus Christ, which may not now be observed, without ⟨p. 66⟩renouncing of Jesus Christ: as though men doubted whether he had accomplished or no that which was figured by them. If there be any question of Sacraments, ordained by our Lord Jesus Christ, and of the ceremonies, and of the discipline, which he him self hath ordained: we must then take good heed that we change no jot thereof, or to add, or diminish in any thing, that toucheth the substance of such things. If there be question of mans traditions, and of the ancient Canons & Decrees, it is requisite to consider, wherein and how they do agree, with the word of God, & also how they may serve, to the edification of the Church, or how they may hinder the same.
T. IT shall then accordyng to thy opiniō, be lawful for mē, to dispense with ceremonies, and with ciuile lawes and to chaunge them at their pleasures. D. My purpose tendeth not to such an ende. For when I do declare for what cause God hath left in this, greater libertie vnto men then in the rest, wherof we haue spokē, I wil not therfore say, although it be lawfull for God to chaūge all those thyngs at his pleasure, according as he doth know it, to be mete for the health of man, that man should chalenge to him self such a licēce: but contrarily when they haue receiued any ordinaunce of God, be it ceremonies or such lyke, they ought not at all to chaunge any thyng therof, vntill that God him selfe, which onely hath libertie so to do, do it: as we see it hath come to passe by the ceremonies, which were obserued in the Church of Israell, whiche were abolished by the commynge of our Lord Iesus Christ, for that they were not ordained, to serue but onely vntil that time. Besides this, in that, in the which God hath gyuen no certaine, and expressed ordinaunce, but hath left those things in our libertie, as indifferent, we may vse that libertie, whiche he hath left vnto vs, gouernyng the same alwayes according to the rule of faith and of charitie, If ther be then any questiō, as touching the ceremonies ordeined in the law of Moses, we must then haue regard vnto that parte of them, whiche was abolished by the commyng of Iesus Christ, whiche may not now be obserued, without ⟨p. 66⟩renouncyng of Iesus Christe: as thoughe men douted whether he had accomplished or no that whiche was figured by them. Yf there be any question of Sacramentes, ordayned by our Lord Iesus Christe, and of the ceremonies, and of the discipline, whiche he hym selfe hath ordeyned: we muste then take good hede that we chaunge no iote thereof, or to adde, or diminishe in any thing, that toucheth the substaūce of such thynges. If there be question of mans traditions, and of the auncient Canons & Decrees, it is requisite to cō sider, wherin and how they do agree, with the word of God, & also how they may serue, to the edification of the Church, or how they may hinder the same.
For there are many (I say even of those, which are not contrary to the word of God) which were good for a time, which not only would not serve at this present, but would do great hurt, because the time doth not now require that, which it then did when they were decreed. And therefore, if that of the very Apostles, touching the abstinence from blood and from strangled flesh, which was decreed in the Council at Jerusalem, was abolished in time convenient, when the usage thereof was no more necessary in the Church: how much more reason have we, to do the like of others, that are of such quality, when that the time and the edification of the Church should require it? T. I agree well to all this: But there is beside these an other sort of people, of whom we have not yet spoken, which seem to have more reason then the others of whom we have now made mention: but it may be, that we have spoken enough for one time, it shall be best that we leave them until an other time. For I do not doubt, but we shall have occasion to discourse sufficiently of them. D. Who are they I beseech thee? T. They be those that wait for a Council. D. And because that we have happened upon this matter of the Council, I am well content that we put it over to an other time: for it doth ⟨p. 67⟩well merit that men look narrowly unto it, for so much as many men depend upon them.
For there are many (I say euen of those, whiche are not contrarie to the worde of God) whiche were good for a tyme, which not onely would not serue at this present, but woulde do greate hurte, bycause the tyme doth not nowe require that, whiche it then dyd when they were decreed. And therefore, if that of the verye Apostles, touchynge the abstinence from bloud and from strangled fleshe, whiche was decreed in the Counsell at Ierusalem, was abolished in tyme conuenient, when the vsage thereof was no more necessarie in the Churche: howe muche more reason haue wee, to doe the lyke of others, that are of suche qualitie, when that the tyme and the edification of the Churche shoulde require it? T. I agree well to all thys: But there is beside these an other sorte of people, of whome wee haue not yet spoken, whiche seeme to haue more reason then the others of whome wee haue nowe made mention: but it maye bee, that wee haue spoken ynoughe for one tyme, it shall be beste that wee leaue them vntill an other tyme. For I doe not doubte, but wee shall haue occasion to discourse sufficientlye of them. D. Who are they I beseche thee? T. They bee those that wayte for a Councell. D. And bycause that we haue happened vppon thys matter of the Councel, I am wel content that we put it ouer to an other tyme: for it doth
Because, that the looking for a general Council, to appease the troubles that are in Christendom in causes of Religion, doth feed and entertain many poor ignorant men in vain hope, and doth let them from the diligent searching out of those things, that belong to their salvation, I have determined fully to entreat of the matter in Dialogues following, in which I will plainly declare, what hope the Christians may have of a Council, and what they may think will come of it, and how hard it will be to assemble it, and what issue, or what good, or evil we ought to look for of it, and what profit the lawful Councils may bring to Christianity, and which is the true Council, upon the which the true Christians ought to repose and to instruct their consciences. And in handling of these matters, I will touch chiefly in this Dialogue, what hope we may have in such affairs, as well of their part, that are called Prelates of the Church, as of the part of the Christian princes, as they have given us well and sufficiently to know by examples, and by experience that we have had already of the Council of Trent. And after that there is some thing said of the Interim, and of such solicitors & workers as will join Jesus Christ, & Antichrist together, & in stead of Christians, make Samaritans, & of the opinion of such as say, that the Council can not err, which is also continued in the other Dialogues following, in the which I do a little paint & set forth, the manner of proceeding, ⟨p. 68⟩which the Papists observe in their Councils, and I do con pare it with that, which God did use in his Council that he held with his people, first in the mount of Sinai, and after that in the hill of Zion. I do show also what preparation there ought to be for the doctrine of such Councils, and how that those two Councils, contain all the doctrine of the old and new Testament, & how they do so agree together, that they both tend to one, upon whom only it behoveth us all to stay.
BYcause, that the lookynge for a generall Councell, to appease the troubles yt are in Christendome in causes of Religion, doth feede and entertayne many poore ignoraunt men in vayne hope, and doth let thē from the diligent searchynge out of those thinges, that belong to their saluation, I haue determined fully to entreate of the matter in Dialogues folowing, in whiche I will playnely declare, what hope the Christians may haue of a Coūcel, and what they may thinck wil come of it, and how hard it wilbe to assemble it, and what issue, or what good, or euil we ought to looke for of it, and what profite the lawfull Councelles maye bryng to Christiantie, and whiche is the true Councell, vpon the which ye true Christians ought to repose and to instructe theyr consciences. And in handling of these matters, I wil touch chiefly in this Dialogue, what hope wee maye haue in such affaires, as wel of their part, that are called Prelates of the Church, as of the parte of the Christian princes, as they haue gyuen vs well and sufficiently to know by examples, and by experience that we haue had already of the Councell of Trent. And after that there is some thing sayd of the Interim, and of such soliciters & worckers as will ioyne Iesus Christ, & Antichriste together, & in stede of Christiās, make Samaritās, & of the opinion of such as say, yt the Coūcel cā not erre, which is also continued in ye other Dialogues folowing, in ye which I do a little paint & set forth, ye maner of proceding,
Whereupon also I make mention of the agreement and difference that may be between the old and new Testament, between Moses and Jesus Christ, between the law & the Gospel, and the law which is called the law of grace, and the law of rigour, & of the abolishing & also of the usage of the law of Moses, and of the vengeance of God, which is prepared against those that will not willingly receive the Decrees, & Canons, of this great and godly Council, and shall abuse his word, and of the great grace: which he hath offered to men, in his son Jesus Christ our Lord, which things shall be entreated of every one in his place. And as touching this present Dialogue, I have entitled it, the waiting for the Council, or the neutrals, in respect of the principal matters that therein are handled or entreated of.
Wherupon also I make mention of the agrement and difference that may be betwene the old and newe Testamēt, betwene Moses and Iesus Christ, betwene the law & the Gosspell, and the law which is called the lawe of grace, and the law of rigour, & of the abolishing & also of the vsage of ye law of Moses, and of the vengeance of God, which is prepared agaynst those that will not willingly receyue the Decrees, & Canons, of this great and godly Councel, and shall abuse his worde, and of the great grace: whiche he hath offered to men, in his sonne Iesus Christ our Lord, which things shal be entreated of euery one in his place. And as touching this present Dialogue, I haue intituled it, the waitynge for the Coūcell, or the newtrals, in respect of the principall matters that therin are handled or entreated of.
Daniel. Timothy.
Daniel. Timothe.
D. Thou dost well remember where we left, as touching those that wait for a Council. T. Yea in deed. D. Will these men tarry to believe in God, to serve him, and to enquire of his will, until the time ⟨p. 69⟩that the Council hath ben holden, and that it hath determined what order of life we should follow? T. It seemeth that these men take their foundation, of that which thou hast said, that if they should serve God truly, it were first requisite to be well instructed and assured of his will. D. Wherefore do they not then forthwith and withal diligence enquire thereof? why do they then tarry for a Council? T. Because they say, that in so great diversity of opinions, as at this present day, is in Christendom, in matters of Religion, they know not which to follow in surety. For they see that some teach after one sort, & the others after an other: & that there is often times as great contrariety of opinions, as between white and black, and between fire and water. That which one alloweth, an other disalloweth: that which one holdeth for Christian doctrine, and for true service of God, an other condemneth it as heresy, or else as superstition, hypocrisy, Idolatry, and Apostasy. And besides this, there are of both sides personages of great appearance, great understanding and great authority, according to the judgement of the world: notwithstanding the multitude is far greater of the one side, then of the other: men hear their discourses, men read their writings & books, there are goodly reasons of both parts, which every of them endeavoureth to prove and confirm by the holy Scriptures, and by all means possible. In this cause, what shall a poor man do, which feareth to offend God, and hath a good desire to serve him, according to his will, but he may not well attain to the knowledge thereof, because that which the one sayeth is the will of God, the other saith it is not the will of God.
D. THou doost well remēber where we left, as touchyng those that wayt for a Councell. T. Yea in dede. D. Will these men tary to beleue in God, to serue him, and to enquire of his will, vntill the tyme ⟨p. 69⟩that the Councell hath ben holden, and that it hath determined what order of lyfe we should folowe? T. It semeth that these mē take their foundation, of that which thou hast said, that if they should serue God truly, it were first requisite to be well instructed and assured of his will. D. Wherfore do they not then forthwith and withall diligence enquire therof? why do they then tary for a Councell? T. Bycause they say, that in so great diuersitie of opinions, as at this present day, is in Christendome, in matters of Religion, they know not whiche to folow in surety. For they see that some teache after one sort, & the others after an other: & that ther is often tymes as great contrarietie of opinions, as betwene white and blacke, and betwene fire and water. That whiche one aloweth, an other disaloweth: that whiche one holdeth for Christiā doctrine, and for true seruice of God, an other condempneth it as heresie, or els as superstition, hypocrisie, Idolatrie, and Apostasie. And besides this, ther are of both sides personnages of great apparance, great vnderstanding and great authoritie, accordyng to the iudgement of the worlde: notwithstandyng the multitude is farre greater of the one side, then of the other: men heare their discourses, men read their writtinges & bookes, there are goodly reasons of both partes, which euery of them endeuoureth to proue and confirme by the holy Scriptures, and by all meanes possible. In this cause, what shal a poore man do, whiche feareth to offend God, and hath a good desire to serue him, accordyng to his wil, but he may not wel attain to ye knowlege therof, bicause that which the one saieth is the wil of God, the other sayth it is not the will of God.
T. I Confess that these differences, which are in Christendom, engender great trouble in the poor consciences ⟨p. 70⟩of many: but that ought not at all to let them to enquire by all means possible, of the will of God, and to employ them selves with all speed possible to serve him: but they should the more earnestly be moved, and provoked to do it, to rid them selves, with as much speed, as they might out of such troubles. For why, least they tarry in it, if they have any fear of God, in what trouble shall they live: and what quietness may they ever have in their consciences. I for my part should think that I were in hell, if I should long live in such estate, without having some thing certain, and resolved in my mind, whereunto I might assuredly stay. T. For this they require a Council: for they think there will be there men of greater judgement then they are, by whose means the matter shall be so debated and examined, that there shall be a general, and a sure determination, through the which every man may be out of scruple and doubt, and may know whereunto to trust. D. It seemeth unto me, that their hope is very slender, if they have no better hope then this. I may not deny but their desire is good, we all ought to desire the same, if there were any hope to see it come to pass, & that with speed: for the sooner it were, yt better, because it is much more dangerous to delay or defer the medicining of the soul: than of the body, for if the medicine of the body come not in time to him that is sick, that sick person is not in danger, but only of his bodily life: but if the medicine of y• soul be to long deferred, there is danger of eternal death: wherefore, I do greatly fear, that many do perish, in tarrying for those medicines. T. There is much to be feared, and also to be doubted in this matter.
T. I Confesse that these differences, which are in Christendome, engender great trouble in the poore consciences ⟨p. 70⟩of many: but that ought not at all to let them to enquire by all meanes possible, of the will of God, and to employe thē selues with al spede possible to serue him: but they should the more earnestly be moued, and prouoked to do it, to ridde them selues, with as much speede, as they myght out of suche troubles. For why, least they tary in it, if they haue any feare of God, in what trouble shall they lyue: and what quyetnes maye they euer haue in theyr consciences. I for my parte shoulde thincke that I were in hell, if I shoulde longe lyue in suche estate, without hauynge some thynge certayne, and resolued in my mynde, whereunto I myght assuredlye staye. T. For thys they require a Councell: for they thincke there wil bee there men of greater iudgement then they are, by whose meanes the matter shall be so debated and examined, that there shall bee a generall, and a sure determination, throughe the which euery man may be out of scrupule and doubte, and may know wherunto to trust. D. It semeth vnto me, that their hope is very slender, if they haue no better hope then this. I maye not deny but their desire is good, we all ought to desire the same, if there were any hope to se it come to passe, & that with spede: for ye soner it were, yt better, bycause it is much more daūgerous to delay or defer the medicyning of ye soule: thē of the body, for if the medicine of ye body come not in tyme to hym yt is sicke, yt sicke person is not in daūger, but onely of his bodely life: but if the medicine of y soule be to long deferred, ther is daūger of eternall death: wherfore, I do greatly feare, that manye doo perish, in tarying for those medicines. T. There is much to be feared, and also to be doubted in this matter.
D. The Synods & lawful Councils, is one of the best remedies that men may have, to take away controversies in religion, ⟨p. 71⟩it is the remedy whereunto in like cases yt Apostles & their true successors, & all yt ancient church, have oftentimes had their recourse: for albeit that the Councils, have no authority nor power to give unto the church any new doctrine nor yet to forge any new articles of faith, but only to hold & maintain y• doctrine, which is revealed by the holy Scriptures, & yet notwithstanding they serve to great purpose, in so much that they be as public witnesses unto it, to succour the infirmity of the simple & weak, & also such as shall come after us, by the confession which is made of the same by them, & by the public testification y• there is declared, by the perpetual consent of the Church, of the doctrine of the Prophets & Apostles. But although the Councils be ordained to this end, & that the ancients have had more rule of them selves & better means, much more meet for such a purpose, then we have at this present: yet notwithstanding they could never obtain that in their Councils, which they desired. And such untowardness was there, that they did alway not only not appease the differences, & abolish schisms, & heresies which troubled the Church, but oftentimes even there right many new did spring, & have ben afterward from time to time increased: if it were needful to prove it by examples, it were easy to do, but we will not now enter into such matter. I will content me for this time, to allege only touching this matter, that testimony ye Gregory Nazianzen (which was Master to S. Hierom) did give, writing to Procopius of the Councils of his time, which were nothing so corrupted as are those of our time: if I must needs, saith he, write the truth, I have determined to refuse all the Councils of Bishops. For I have found the issue of no one Synod good, or rather that they have more increased the evil, then quenched it. Here is the judgement of Nazianzene, touching this matter.
D. THe Sinodes & lawfull Coūcels, is one of ye best remedies yt mē may haue, to take away cōtrouersies in religiō, ⟨p. 71⟩it is ye remedi wherunto in like cases yt Apostles & their true successors, & al yt aūciēt church, haue oftētimes had their recourse: for albeit that the Coūcels, haue no authority nor power to giue vnto ye churche any newe doctrine nor yet to forge ani new articles of faith, but only to hold & maintain y doctrine, which is reueled by ye holy Scriptures, & yet notwithstāding they serue to great purpose, in so much yt they be as publike witnesses vnto it, to succor ye infirmitie of the simple & weake, & also such as shall come after vs, by ye confessiō which is made of ye same by thē, & by the publike testificatiō y there is declared, by ye perpetual cōsent of ye Church, of ye doctrine of the Prophetes & Apostles. But although the Councels be ordeyned to this end, & that ye aūciēts haue had more rule of thē selues & better meanes, much more meete for such a purpose, then we haue at this presēt: yet notwithstāding they could neuer obtaine yt in their Coūcels, which they desired. And such vntowardnes was there, yt they did alway not onely not apease ye differences, & abolish scismes, & heresies which troubled ye Church, but oftētimes euē there right many new did spring, & haue ben afterward frō tyme to tyme encreased: if it were nedefull to proue it by exāples, it were easy to do, but we will not now enter into such matter. I will cōtent me for this time, to alledge onely touching this matter, yt testimonie ye Gregory Nazianzen (which was Master to S. Hierom) did giue, writting to Procopius of ye Coūcels of his tyme, whiche were nothyng so corrupted as ar those of our time: if I must nedes, sayth he, write ye truth, I haue determined to refuse al the Coūcels of Bishops. For I haue foūd the issue of no one Synode good, or rather that they haue more encreased the euil, then quenched it. Here is the iudgemēt of Nazianzene, touching this matter.
Which seemeth to me something hard, for it can not be denied that some of the ancient Councils, have greatly profited unto Christianity, notwithstanding that the perversity of the wicked, hath alway hindered that the fruit and issue ⟨p. 72⟩hath not ben such as was to be desired, yet notwithstanding, Nazianzene hath not given judgement of the Councils without some just cause, or like a man that did not know what the matter meant, but like a man of great understanding, and one well exercised in those matters. T. At the least he lived in such a time, and bare such office as of reason he ought to have had great experience.
Which semeth to me somethynge harde, for it can not bee denyed that some of the auncient Councels, haue greatly profited vnto Christianitie, notwithstandynge that the peruersitie of the wicked, hath alwaye hindered that the frute and issue ⟨p. 72⟩hath not ben such as was to be desired, yet notwithstandyng, Nazianzene hath not gyuen iudgement of the Councels without some iuste cause, or lyke a man that dyd not knowe what the matter meant, but like a man of great vnderstandyng, and one well exercised in those matters. T. At the least he lyued in such a tyme, and bare such office as of reason he ought to haue had great experience.