A14462:181
A14462:181
The first part of the Christian instruction, and general so[m]me of the doctrine, contained in the holy Scriptures wherein the principal points of the religion are familiarly handled by dialogues, very necessary to be read of all Christians. Translated into English, by John Shute, according to the late copy set forth, by th'author Master Peter Viret. 1565. Overseen and perused, according to the order appointed, by the Queens majesties injunctions.The firste parte of the Christian instruction, and generall so[m]me of the doctrine, conteyned in the holy Scriptures wherein the principall pointes of the religion are familiarly handled by dialogues, very necessary to be read of all Christians. Translated into Englishe, by Iohn Shute, accordyng to the late copy set forth, by th'author Maister Peter Viret. 1565. Ouersene and perused, accordyng to the order appointed, by the Queenes maiesties iniunctions.
London: printed by John Day, 1565London: printed by Iohn Day, 1565
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
Daniel. Timothy.
Daniel. Timothe.
D. Thou dost well remember where we left, as touching those that wait for a Council. T. Yea in deed. D. Will these men tarry to believe in God, to serve him, and to enquire of his will, until the time ⟨p. 69⟩that the Council hath ben holden, and that it hath determined what order of life we should follow? T. It seemeth that these men take their foundation, of that which thou hast said, that if they should serve God truly, it were first requisite to be well instructed and assured of his will. D. Wherefore do they not then forthwith and withal diligence enquire thereof? why do they then tarry for a Council? T. Because they say, that in so great diversity of opinions, as at this present day, is in Christendom, in matters of Religion, they know not which to follow in surety. For they see that some teach after one sort, & the others after an other: & that there is often times as great contrariety of opinions, as between white and black, and between fire and water. That which one alloweth, an other disalloweth: that which one holdeth for Christian doctrine, and for true service of God, an other condemneth it as heresy, or else as superstition, hypocrisy, Idolatry, and Apostasy. And besides this, there are of both sides personages of great appearance, great understanding and great authority, according to the judgement of the world: notwithstanding the multitude is far greater of the one side, then of the other: men hear their discourses, men read their writings & books, there are goodly reasons of both parts, which every of them endeavoureth to prove and confirm by the holy Scriptures, and by all means possible. In this cause, what shall a poor man do, which feareth to offend God, and hath a good desire to serve him, according to his will, but he may not well attain to the knowledge thereof, because that which the one sayeth is the will of God, the other saith it is not the will of God.
D. THou doost well remēber where we left, as touchyng those that wayt for a Councell. T. Yea in dede. D. Will these men tary to beleue in God, to serue him, and to enquire of his will, vntill the tyme ⟨p. 69⟩that the Councell hath ben holden, and that it hath determined what order of lyfe we should folowe? T. It semeth that these mē take their foundation, of that which thou hast said, that if they should serue God truly, it were first requisite to be well instructed and assured of his will. D. Wherfore do they not then forthwith and withall diligence enquire therof? why do they then tary for a Councell? T. Bycause they say, that in so great diuersitie of opinions, as at this present day, is in Christendome, in matters of Religion, they know not whiche to folow in surety. For they see that some teache after one sort, & the others after an other: & that ther is often tymes as great contrarietie of opinions, as betwene white and blacke, and betwene fire and water. That whiche one aloweth, an other disaloweth: that whiche one holdeth for Christiā doctrine, and for true seruice of God, an other condempneth it as heresie, or els as superstition, hypocrisie, Idolatrie, and Apostasie. And besides this, ther are of both sides personnages of great apparance, great vnderstanding and great authoritie, accordyng to the iudgement of the worlde: notwithstandyng the multitude is farre greater of the one side, then of the other: men heare their discourses, men read their writtinges & bookes, there are goodly reasons of both partes, which euery of them endeuoureth to proue and confirme by the holy Scriptures, and by all meanes possible. In this cause, what shal a poore man do, whiche feareth to offend God, and hath a good desire to serue him, accordyng to his wil, but he may not wel attain to ye knowlege therof, bicause that which the one saieth is the wil of God, the other sayth it is not the will of God.
T. I Confess that these differences, which are in Christendom, engender great trouble in the poor consciences ⟨p. 70⟩of many: but that ought not at all to let them to enquire by all means possible, of the will of God, and to employ them selves with all speed possible to serve him: but they should the more earnestly be moved, and provoked to do it, to rid them selves, with as much speed, as they might out of such troubles. For why, least they tarry in it, if they have any fear of God, in what trouble shall they live: and what quietness may they ever have in their consciences. I for my part should think that I were in hell, if I should long live in such estate, without having some thing certain, and resolved in my mind, whereunto I might assuredly stay. T. For this they require a Council: for they think there will be there men of greater judgement then they are, by whose means the matter shall be so debated and examined, that there shall be a general, and a sure determination, through the which every man may be out of scruple and doubt, and may know whereunto to trust. D. It seemeth unto me, that their hope is very slender, if they have no better hope then this. I may not deny but their desire is good, we all ought to desire the same, if there were any hope to see it come to pass, & that with speed: for the sooner it were, yt better, because it is much more dangerous to delay or defer the medicining of the soul: than of the body, for if the medicine of the body come not in time to him that is sick, that sick person is not in danger, but only of his bodily life: but if the medicine of y• soul be to long deferred, there is danger of eternal death: wherefore, I do greatly fear, that many do perish, in tarrying for those medicines. T. There is much to be feared, and also to be doubted in this matter.
T. I Confesse that these differences, which are in Christendome, engender great trouble in the poore consciences ⟨p. 70⟩of many: but that ought not at all to let them to enquire by all meanes possible, of the will of God, and to employe thē selues with al spede possible to serue him: but they should the more earnestly be moued, and prouoked to do it, to ridde them selues, with as much speede, as they myght out of suche troubles. For why, least they tary in it, if they haue any feare of God, in what trouble shall they lyue: and what quyetnes maye they euer haue in theyr consciences. I for my parte shoulde thincke that I were in hell, if I shoulde longe lyue in suche estate, without hauynge some thynge certayne, and resolued in my mynde, whereunto I myght assuredlye staye. T. For thys they require a Councell: for they thincke there wil bee there men of greater iudgement then they are, by whose meanes the matter shall be so debated and examined, that there shall bee a generall, and a sure determination, throughe the which euery man may be out of scrupule and doubte, and may know wherunto to trust. D. It semeth vnto me, that their hope is very slender, if they haue no better hope then this. I maye not deny but their desire is good, we all ought to desire the same, if there were any hope to se it come to passe, & that with spede: for ye soner it were, yt better, bycause it is much more daūgerous to delay or defer the medicyning of ye soule: thē of the body, for if the medicine of ye body come not in tyme to hym yt is sicke, yt sicke person is not in daūger, but onely of his bodely life: but if the medicine of y soule be to long deferred, ther is daūger of eternall death: wherfore, I do greatly feare, that manye doo perish, in tarying for those medicines. T. There is much to be feared, and also to be doubted in this matter.
D. The Synods & lawful Councils, is one of the best remedies that men may have, to take away controversies in religion, ⟨p. 71⟩it is the remedy whereunto in like cases yt Apostles & their true successors, & all yt ancient church, have oftentimes had their recourse: for albeit that the Councils, have no authority nor power to give unto the church any new doctrine nor yet to forge any new articles of faith, but only to hold & maintain y• doctrine, which is revealed by the holy Scriptures, & yet notwithstanding they serve to great purpose, in so much that they be as public witnesses unto it, to succour the infirmity of the simple & weak, & also such as shall come after us, by the confession which is made of the same by them, & by the public testification y• there is declared, by the perpetual consent of the Church, of the doctrine of the Prophets & Apostles. But although the Councils be ordained to this end, & that the ancients have had more rule of them selves & better means, much more meet for such a purpose, then we have at this present: yet notwithstanding they could never obtain that in their Councils, which they desired. And such untowardness was there, that they did alway not only not appease the differences, & abolish schisms, & heresies which troubled the Church, but oftentimes even there right many new did spring, & have ben afterward from time to time increased: if it were needful to prove it by examples, it were easy to do, but we will not now enter into such matter. I will content me for this time, to allege only touching this matter, that testimony ye Gregory Nazianzen (which was Master to S. Hierom) did give, writing to Procopius of the Councils of his time, which were nothing so corrupted as are those of our time: if I must needs, saith he, write the truth, I have determined to refuse all the Councils of Bishops. For I have found the issue of no one Synod good, or rather that they have more increased the evil, then quenched it. Here is the judgement of Nazianzene, touching this matter.
D. THe Sinodes & lawfull Coūcels, is one of ye best remedies yt mē may haue, to take away cōtrouersies in religiō, ⟨p. 71⟩it is ye remedi wherunto in like cases yt Apostles & their true successors, & al yt aūciēt church, haue oftētimes had their recourse: for albeit that the Coūcels, haue no authority nor power to giue vnto ye churche any newe doctrine nor yet to forge ani new articles of faith, but only to hold & maintain y doctrine, which is reueled by ye holy Scriptures, & yet notwithstāding they serue to great purpose, in so much yt they be as publike witnesses vnto it, to succor ye infirmitie of the simple & weake, & also such as shall come after vs, by ye confessiō which is made of ye same by thē, & by the publike testificatiō y there is declared, by ye perpetual cōsent of ye Church, of ye doctrine of the Prophetes & Apostles. But although the Councels be ordeyned to this end, & that ye aūciēts haue had more rule of thē selues & better meanes, much more meete for such a purpose, then we haue at this presēt: yet notwithstāding they could neuer obtaine yt in their Coūcels, which they desired. And such vntowardnes was there, yt they did alway not onely not apease ye differences, & abolish scismes, & heresies which troubled ye Church, but oftētimes euē there right many new did spring, & haue ben afterward frō tyme to tyme encreased: if it were nedefull to proue it by exāples, it were easy to do, but we will not now enter into such matter. I will cōtent me for this time, to alledge onely touching this matter, yt testimonie ye Gregory Nazianzen (which was Master to S. Hierom) did giue, writting to Procopius of ye Coūcels of his tyme, whiche were nothyng so corrupted as ar those of our time: if I must nedes, sayth he, write ye truth, I haue determined to refuse al the Coūcels of Bishops. For I haue foūd the issue of no one Synode good, or rather that they haue more encreased the euil, then quenched it. Here is the iudgemēt of Nazianzene, touching this matter.
Which seemeth to me something hard, for it can not be denied that some of the ancient Councils, have greatly profited unto Christianity, notwithstanding that the perversity of the wicked, hath alway hindered that the fruit and issue ⟨p. 72⟩hath not ben such as was to be desired, yet notwithstanding, Nazianzene hath not given judgement of the Councils without some just cause, or like a man that did not know what the matter meant, but like a man of great understanding, and one well exercised in those matters. T. At the least he lived in such a time, and bare such office as of reason he ought to have had great experience.
Which semeth to me somethynge harde, for it can not bee denyed that some of the auncient Councels, haue greatly profited vnto Christianitie, notwithstandynge that the peruersitie of the wicked, hath alwaye hindered that the frute and issue ⟨p. 72⟩hath not ben such as was to be desired, yet notwithstandyng, Nazianzene hath not gyuen iudgement of the Councels without some iuste cause, or lyke a man that dyd not knowe what the matter meant, but like a man of great vnderstandyng, and one well exercised in those matters. T. At the least he lyued in such a tyme, and bare such office as of reason he ought to haue had great experience.
D. Now if Councils had such issue in those days, that Nazianzene had just occasion to make such complaint: what hope may we have in these days, of such like remedy? For, first of all, what hope may we have to assemble a Council only? yea and if it might so come to pass, that one might be assembled, what goodness might we hope for of it? For who shall assemble it? who be they that shall be there assembled? Who shall there preside? Who shall make the determinations and conclusions of it? and who shall execute them? If a man would reform or suppress a stews, to whom wouldest thou give such a charge? Wouldest thou give it to the master of the stews? and wouldest thou, that he should have the chief authority in that reformation, and that his bawds and ruffians, whoremasters and whores should give their voice and sentence, and that all should be done, according to their will and mind? Might not men have great hope, to have some good resolution and reformation in such a case, of such a Council? T. It should be a great mockery, even like as to make the wolf to be keeper of the sheep. D. Doubtless no more is there any likelihood, considering the state of things at this day in Christendom, to have any Council much more honourable. For if the Pope and his ministers, have their authority, which they have had in time past, even sith they have usurped that tyranny, which they now exercise over the Church, & that ⟨p. 73⟩they pretend to have there, thou mayest easily understand what success men may look for. For it is a thing most certain, that such men will never agree to have a council holden, unless they know it to be for their profit, and that they may there rule at their pleasure, even as they now pretend to do in their Council of Trent. For if they did not think to reign & rule there at their pleasure, it would have been a hard matter ever to agree them thereupon, or to have drawn them thither. And if they may obtain this, it shall not be a Council, but a conjuration & conspiracy against God, as was the council of Annas and Caiaphas, of the Scribes and Pharisees, and of the priests of the law, and of the council of Jerusalem against our Lord Jesus Christ.
D. NOw if Councels had such issue in those dayes, that Nazianzene had iust occasion to make such complainte: what hope may wee haue in these dayes, of suche lyke remedie? For, first of all, what hope may we haue to assemble a Coūcel onely? yea and if it might so come to passe, that one might be assembled, what goodnes might we hope for of it? For whoe shall assemble it? who bee they that shalbe there assembled? Who shall there preside? Who shall make the determinacions and conclusions of it? and who shall execute them? Yf a man would reforme or suppresse a stewes, to whom wouldest thou gyue such a charge? Wouldest thou gyue it to the master of the stewes? and wouldest thou, that he should haue the chief auctoritie in that reformation, and that his bawdes and ruffiēs, whoremasters and whores should gyue their voyce and sentence, and that all should be done, accordyng to their will and minde? Might not mē haue great hope, to haue some good resolucion and reformation in such a case, of such a Councell? T. It should be a greate mockerie, euen lyke as to make the wolfe to be keper of the shepe. D. Doubtles no more is there any likelyhode, considering the state of thinges at this day in Christendome, to haue any Councel much more honorable. For if the Pope and his ministers, haue their auctoritie, whiche they haue had in time past, euen sith they haue vsurped that tyranny, whiche they now exercise ouer the Church, & that
This shall be a Council to establish more strongly the seat of Antichrist, and his tyranny against the Church, and wholly to abolish the course of the Gospel, and to fill the whole earth with the blood of the innocents & Martyrs, which shall sustain the truth, and rather die, then to renounce Jesus Christ. T. Certainly for my part I think it to be the only mark whereat they shoot. For what may we look for at the hands of him, & of all his race, which hath been a murderer and homicide from the beginning of the world, we need not to doubt whether the Antichrist the son of perdition and all his generation which make wars against the truth, be the very natural and lawful children of this great murderer & father of lies. Wherefore it must needs come to pass: that they work the works of their father, and that they put in practise those arts and sciences: which they have learned in his school.
This shal be a Councel to establishe more stronglye the seate of Antichrist, and his tyrannie agaynst the Church, and wholy to abolishe the course of the Gospel, and to fill the whole earth with the bloude of the innocentes & Martyrs, which shall susteine the truth, and rather die, then to renounce Iesus Christ. T. Certaynly for my part I thinke it to be the onely mark wherat they shoote. For what may we looke for at the handes of him, & of all his race, which hath bene a murtherer and homicide from the beginning of the worlde, we nede not to doubte whether the Antichrist the sonne of perdition and all his generation which make warres againste the truth, be the very naturall and lawful children of thys great murtherer & father of lies. Wherefore it must needes come to passe: that they worke the workes of their father, and that they put in practise those artes and sciences: which they haue learned in his schole.
D. AT the least they do declare right well by their threatenings how well they are inclined to follow that §5occupation. For in deed what could they do without that? in so much as the sword of the word of GOD is not to maintain their cause and devilish estate, they can not find one more meet then is the material sword, and the fire and fagots. There is the Bible which they have for their defence, with the which the tyrants and executioners furnish them. T. Their library is even meet for their study. D. By these means the Christianity shall be in worse estate then now it is, and there shall be less hope of reformation of it, than before was. And without passing any further, and without going from their council of Trent, they have already given us a fair testimony of the good will that they bear to a true Christian reformation: by those goodly determinations which have been concluded not long since, in their sessions of that worthy conjuration and conspiracy of Trent. T. The matter is plain, and therefore doest thou no wrong to such a council rather to call it a conspiracy to resist the truth, then a council to maintain it.
D. AT the least they do declare right well by their threatninges howe well they are inclined to followe that §5occupation. For in dede what coulde they do without that? in so muche as the sworde of the worde of GOD is not to maintayne their cause and deuelyshe estate, they can not finde one more meete then is the materiall sworde, and the fire and fagots. There is the Bible which they haue for their defence, with the which the tyrantes and executioners furnyshe them. T. Their librarie is euen meete for their studie. D. By these meanes ye Christianitie shall be in worse estate then now it is, and there shall bee lesse hope of reformation of it, thē before was. And without passing any further, and without going from their councell of Trent, they haue already geuen vs a fayre testimonye of the good will that they beare to a true Christian reformation: by those goodlye determinations which haue beene concluded not long since, in their sessions of that worthy coniuration and conspiracie of Trent. T. The matter is plaine, and therfore doest thou no wrong to such a councel rather to cal it a conspiracie to resiste the truth, then a councell to maintaine it.