The first part of the Christian instruction, and general so[m]me of the doctrine, contained…The firste parte of the Christian instruction, and generall so[m]me of the doctrine, conteyned…

¶ What fruit the Church may receive of lawful Councils, and what mixture there is in her of good and bad, and what is her office toward the one and the other.

¶ VVhat fruite the Church maye receaue of lavvfull Councells, and vvhat mixture there is in her of good and bad, and vvhat is her office tovvarde the one and the other.

T. I Do willingly consent & agree to all that thou sayest: but how so ever it be, the ancient Councils have not yet been without fruit, for at the least they have given some repose to the church for a certain time, and have armed the faithful against the heretics: as we do see in ¹Saint Augustine, for he doth arm himself against the Donatists with the union of the holy universal church, and of the authority of the full Council, as with a buckler: thinking that the full and lawful Council is the consent of the whole church. I do not deny but what so ever Council is holden, there may yet continue still in the church many hypocrites, which will seem to agree with it, and yet for all that in the mean time they will nourish their poison in their hearts. But the church leaveth such to the judgement ²of God. For even as our Lord Jesus Christ doth plainly show it in his parables, she can not be without hypocrites so long as she shall continue upon this earth: upon the which she can not be so pure, but that she shall always be mixed with good & evil. But it is enough for the church to teach simply and plainly that, which every man is bound to believe, and then the true children of the church do believe simply and constantly that which their mother teacheth them and that unfeignedly, and obey her without any gain saying. The hypocrites which are not her lawful children, but misbegotten and bastards, may well through their false ⟨p. 97⟩show deceive and abuse men, but not God: they may deceive the espouse, but not the bridegroom, wherefore she holdeth her well contented, when she hath done that, which she is able to do, to wit to teach the true doctrine, to correct by discipline such as be faulty, to the end that she may bring them into the right way, and that she may entertain them, every one in his place and vocation: or else if they be so perverse, wicked and incorrigible, that they will not change their opinions, and if they can do no good, with such kind of men, yet will they endeavour them selves, at the least so well to provide for others, that they shall not be able to hurt them, nor to trouble their peace, and union, & in the mean time she leaveth the judgement of the hart to god, and it is sufficient for her to entertain her sheep and lambs in peace, and to let the wolfs, that they scatter not the flock.

T. I Do willingly consent & agree to all that thou sayest: but how so euer it be, the auncient Councells haue not yet bene without fruite, for at the least they haue geuen some repose to the church for a certayne tyme, and haue armed the faythfull against the heretiques: as we doe see in ¹Saint Augustine, for he doth arme himself against the Donatistes with the vnion of the holy vniuersall church, and of the authoritie of the full Councell, as with a buckler: thinking that the full and lawfull Councell is the consent of the whole church. I do not denye but what so euer Councell is holden, there may yet continue still in the church many hipocrites, which will sceme to agree with it, and yet for all that in the meane tyme they will nourishe their poyson in their hartes. But the church leaueth such to the iudgement ²of God. For euen as our Lorde Iesus Christ doth playnlye shewe it in his parables, she can not be without hypocrites so long as she shall continue vpō this earth: vpon the which she can not be so pure, but that she shall alwayes be myxed with good & euill. But it is inough for the church to teach simplye and plainly that, which euery man is bound to beleue, and then the true children of the church do beleue simplye and constantly that which their mother teacheth them and that vnfaynedly, and obey her without any gayne saying. The hipocrites which are not her lawfull children, but misbegotten and bastardes, maye well through their false ⟨p. 97⟩shewe deceiue and abuse men, but not God: they may deceiue the espouse, but not the bridegrome, wherfore she holdeth her well contented, when she hath done that, which she is able to do, to wit to teache the true doctrine, to correcte by discipline such as be faultie, to the ende that she may bryng them into the right way, and that she may entertaine them, euery one in his place and vocation: or els if they be so peruerse, wicked and incorrigible, that they will not chaunge theyr oppinions, and if they can do no good, with such kind of men, yet will they endeuour them selues, at the least so well to prouide for others, that they shall not be able to hurt them, nor to trouble their peace, and vnion, & in the mean time she leaueth the iudgemēt of ye hart to god, and it is sufficient for her to entertaine her shepe and lambes in peace, and to let the wolfes, that they scatter not the flocke.

1. 1Lib. 7. cont. Donat. Lib. 1. cont. Donat.
2. 2Matth. xiii.

¶ What praise is due to good princes & Magistrates, which employ them selves in the reformation of the Church, and what fruit it getteth by their labour and office, as well for the cause of the faithful, as of the hypocrites: and of the changes that happen in Religion, according to the princes that reign.

¶ VVhat prayse is due to good princes & Magistrates, which employ them selues in the reformation of the Church, and vvhat fruite it getteth by their labor and office, as vvell for the cause of the faithfull, as of the hypocrites: and of the chaunges that happen in Religion, accordyng to the princes that raygne.

T. I Say not the contrary, or otherwise, when the Church is troubled and scattered, we should reject the means, which God hath given to repair it: which we may not do without tempting of God. Wherefore I do very well allow the goodwill and diligence of such as travail faithfully in the procuring of a lawful Council, or Synods, such as are requisite in the Church of God: and I Judge those princes worthy of great praise, which according to the example of Hezekiah, ¹and Josiah, do endeavour them selves to reform those Churches, that are within their liberties and countries. For albeit that many dwell still in their old skins, yet do they their duty, for their part. They glorify in their offices, they do assure & entertain the good in peace. They are a means to make strong those that are weak, and do discharge their ⟨p. 98⟩souls from the blood of such as perish through their own default, and not in that, that they have not done their duty. And therefore I deny not but that of lawful Councils, there cometh often times great profit, for a certain time, for the police and outward peace of the Church: but I say that they are not sufficient thoroughly to appease the troubles that are in Christendom, and to edify perfectly the inward man, & to quiet the conscience in deed, and to give it true quietness and assurance, if nothing else. They are unto the wicked as the authority of the sword and of the Magistrate, & may well stay their hands & feet, but they can not alter nor change ²their hearts, which only God hath in his hand, even as the division of waters, and inclineth them to what part he will. We have the example hereof very plain in Hezekiah, and Josiah, of whom we have already spoken: whilst these good kings lived all errors, abuses, Idolatries, and superstitions were abolished outwardly, and put away from among the people of God, and the Church was well reformed: but it was not clearly plucked out of the harts of them all, but was secretly nourished, unto that time, that occasion was offered to declare them selves, as experience doth witness. For as soon as they had changed their king, and that they had a prince which was an Idolater, the people forthwith changed with the prince, and returned immediately to their first Idolatry, as it came to pass under Manasseh, Joachim, and Zedechias.

And in manner the like happened in the time of the heretics, for they did always either loose or ¹increase their stoutness, accordingly as they found their princes. T. The ancient histories of the Church do yield clear and perfect witness of that which thou sayest.

And in maner the like happned in the tyme of the heretikes, for they did alwayes either loose or ¹increase their stoutnes, accordyngly as they founde theyr princes. T. The auncient histories of the Churche do yelde cleare and perfect witnesse of that whiche thou sayest.

1. 1•. Re. xxiiii

¶ Of the hypocrisy of those that depend only upon men, in matter of Religion, and of the proof thereof.

¶ Of the hypocrisie of those that depende onely vpon men, in matter of Religion, and of the proofe therof.

D. Now from whence do these sudden alterations and changes proceed? but that the one sort are enforced ⟨p. 99⟩through fear to leave of, & to set a good face on it: as a horse doth whilst a man hath him short rained in his bridle, which after being put into the fields, as soon as he is at liberty, or else as a river which is letted or holden back by force of ramparts, which floeth forth violently, as soon, as they are broken. The other sort do change as the prince doth, because they dwell upon the authority and doings of men, and not upon the only word of God. And therefore I say, that even as the Councils, do make the one sort hypocrites, so make they the other, disciples of men, rather then of Jesus Christ. For, to receive a doctrine, and to believe it, for the authority and appearance of men, which do allow it, that is not properly to believe the word of God, although it be nothing else but the very pure Gospel: but it is to believe and wholly to put trust in men. For if those men, which by their authority have moved me to receive it, should happen to forsake it: I should be no less prest and ready to refuse & to shake it of with them, then I was to receive it and to allow it be their means. We do at this present see very plainly the experience hereof in those Churches, which here to fore have been reformed by the preaching of the Gospel, which at this present have received the Interim, and the Mass. For yt Interim is a very perfect token or proof for men to know in deed, who they be that have unfeignedly believed God, and his word, and which they be, that have dwelled upon men, and their authority, and have received the Gospel, either through hypocrisy and dissimulation for the love of men, and the hope of their own gain and fleshly liberty, or else by perfect faith and true simplicity of heart, and by yt very persuasion of the spirit of God in their conscience, for the health of their souls, & to serve to the glory of God. Those men that do change in such sort their faith, with every wind that bloweth, do plainly declare that they never understood Jesus Christ very well, when he said: Be ¹not ye called masters upon earth, for ye have a master in ⟨p. 100⟩heaven, to wit Jesus Christ.

D. NOw from whence do these sodaine alterations and chaunges procede? but that the one sort are enforced

¶ In what sort we may esteem men for masters and teachers, and in what manner we are made the disciples of Jesus Christ, or of men.

¶ In vvhat sorte vve may esteme men for masters and teachers, and in vvhat maner vve are made the disciples of Iesus Christ, or of men.

T. Doth he thereby forbid us, to have masters to teach us, and to call those masters of whom we receive instruction? D. How should he forbid it, considering it is he him self, that doth teach us by them that are nothing else, but the ministers of his grace, by whom he, which is our chief master, doth declare him self to us: wherefore should he else have sent his Prophets, Apostles, and disciples, to teach and preach his holy Gospel unto us? would he not that we should hear those that he sendeth unto us, as if it were him self in proper person, that speaketh to us, and doth teach us? Wherefore said he then to his Apostles, he that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that refuseth and despiseth you, refuseth & ¹despiseth me? and after immediately he showeth the reason: For it is not you that speak, but the spirit of your heavenly father that speaketh in you. T. What is there to be understood by these? how may we both have, and not have, masters upon the earth. D. If by hearing those that he sendeth unto us, we receive the doctrine which they preach unto us, and believe the same, not for their sake that speak unto us, ne yet for their great authority and appearance, neither for the opinion that we have of them, either to please them, or else to receive some worldly honour or profit at their hands: but only because it is the pure and true word of God, and that we hear yt voice of Jesus Christ our shepherd, through their mouth: being certain and assured by his holy spirit, that it is he that speaketh in them: we are not then the disciples of men, but of Christ. And then is that same fulfilled in us, which our Lord Jesus Christ allegeth of the Prophet Isaiah, and that which he him self expoundeth in the Gospel of S. John: And thy sons shall be all taught ²of God. Then who soever hath heard, and learned of the father, ⟨p. 101⟩cometh to me. For when we believe, having been so taught by God, it is for his sake, that we do receive the doctrine, ³and we take him for our master, and not the men: all beit that he doth communicate his name unto them, because that they are his servants and ministers: as the name of God is given unto Judges, Prophets, and to the elect of God, because that the Image of his majesty & justice doth shine and is present in them, although they be continually men, and not Gods. And on the contrary:

If I believe the doctrine which I hear, because that Tertullian or Cyprian. Origene or Chrysostom, Irene or Ambrose, Hierome or Augustine, Gregory or Isidore, Luther or Erasme, Eccius or Melanchthon, Gratian or Peter Lombard, master of the sentences, John the Scot or Thomas of Alquine, do preach and teach the same unto me: or else because that the Popes, and Cardinals, the Bishops, and others, whom I esteem rich, mighty and wise personages, of great virtue and holiness, do allow and commend the same, or else because that the Emperors, kings, princes, and Lords, the Italians and Spaniards, the Almains the French, and other nations do believe it: I am then no disciple of Jesus Christ in this doing, but a disciple of men.

Yf I beleue the doctrine whiche I heare, bycause that Tertullian or Cyprian. Origene or Chrisostome, Irene or Ambrose, Hierome or Augustine, Gregory or Isidore, Luther or Erasme, Eccius or Melancthon, Gratian or Peter Lombard, master of the sentences, Iohn the Scotte or Thomas of Alquine, do preache and teach the same vnto me: or els bycause that the Popes, and Cardinals, the Bishops, and others, whom I esteme riche, mighty and wise personages, of great vertue and holynes, do alowe and cōmend the same, or els bycause that the Emperors, kynges, princes, and Lordes, the Italians and Spaniardes, the Almaignes the Frēche, and other nations do beleue it: I am then no disciple of Iesus Christ in this doyng, but a disciple of men.

¶ Of the nature and virtue of true faith, and what difference there is between it and opinion.

¶ Of the nature and vertue of true fayth, and vvhat difference there is betvvene it and opinion.

T. According to this account there are mo disciples of men, then of Jesus Christ. For there are very few which have not greater regard to men, then to any thing else. D. Yet notwithstanding if it be so, their faith to say truth is no faith, but opinion, as it hath ben already declared. For seeing that it is not builded upon the authority of God, and his word, but only upon the opinion which I have of such personages, it may be no faith. For faith may have none other regard, object, subject, nor foundation, but God in Jesus Christ, & his only truth. If it have any other ⟨p. 102⟩foundation, if it be builded upon men, and upon the opinion that men shall have of them, it shall change as men do, and as the opinion doth that men have conceived. It shall fall when they fall, it shall be inconstant, variable and subject to change, even as they are. For she shall not be builded upon ¹the lively stone, which is Jesus Christ, and upon the sure foundation of the Prophets and Apostles, upon the which, the true Church must be builded, if it will endure against the gates of hell, and the whole hellish power, otherwise how may it be a faith? For these vices are as contrary to faith, as is the fire to the water. Wherefore, such as dwell upon men in this sort, and do not discern of things, nor prove the spirits whether they be of God or no, according to the Coū cell given by Saint John: What assurance may they have ²in their consciences? Whilst they are at rest, and that they be not assailed by temptations, nor wakened by the judgement of God, and that they do haunt among such as are of the same religion, that they are of, it seemeth unto them, that their faith is very sure & strong: but when they shall find them selves assailed with divers temptations, & compassed round with great dangers, & that God shall a little astone their con sciences with his judgement, they shall then find what stay they have of men, & that there is no perfect assurance, nor true quietness of conscience, but in the true faith, engendered in the hearts of men, by the very persuasion of the word & spirit of God. And if it should happen that they should be conversant among men of an other Religion, what would they then do? T. If they should be in Turkey, they would as well receive the laws of Mahomet, & refuse the Christian Religion, as the Turks do:

for they have even the same reasons and arguments to do it, as otherwise they have to accept or refuse that, which they have already received or disallowed. They would even do the like, if that they were among the Jews, or any other nation, which should hold any other religion, then the Christian. D. It is not to be doubted.

for they haue euen the same reasons and argumentes to do it, as otherwise they haue to accepte or refuse that, whiche they haue already receiued or disalowed. They would euē do the lyke, if that they were among the Iewes, or any other nation, whiche should hold any other religion, then the Christian. D. It is not to be doubted.