A14462:260
A14462:260
The first part of the Christian instruction, and general so[m]me of the doctrine, contained in the holy Scriptures wherein the principal points of the religion are familiarly handled by dialogues, very necessary to be read of all Christians. Translated into English, by John Shute, according to the late copy set forth, by th'author Master Peter Viret. 1565. Overseen and perused, according to the order appointed, by the Queens majesties injunctions.The firste parte of the Christian instruction, and generall so[m]me of the doctrine, conteyned in the holy Scriptures wherein the principall pointes of the religion are familiarly handled by dialogues, very necessary to be read of all Christians. Translated into Englishe, by Iohn Shute, accordyng to the late copy set forth, by th'author Maister Peter Viret. 1565. Ouersene and perused, accordyng to the order appointed, by the Queenes maiesties iniunctions.
London: printed by John Day, 1565London: printed by Iohn Day, 1565
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
Timothy. Daniel.
Tymothe. Daniell.
IF thou haddest time I would very gladly that thou wouldest continue those matters, of the which ⟨p. 110⟩we did discourse at our last departure of the one, from the other. D. I am ready when so ever thou wilt be ready to hear. And therefore declare what thou haste to say, as touching the writings of the ancient Fathers and Doctors, & what difference there ought to be put between them and the decrees passed and determined in the lawful Councils. T. When these good fathers and ancient doctors, do teach or write any thing in particular, they may more easily err, being as particulars, than when they are assembled together at the Council, in the which the spirit of God doth assist in greater effect and virtue, in so much as the gifts & graces which he hath given to every member of the body of Jesus Christ, are all there together even as it were in one perfect 1body. Wherefore the one helpeth the other, and every man feeleth the more presently the virtue of the spirit of God in himself. For if Saul which was forsaken of God, did prophesy among the Prophets, after that he was come into their companies, in such sort that it became a common proverb among the Hebrews, and it was said: is not Saul also amongest the Prophets? Is it not more like to be true that God will give the spirit of prophecy to them that come together to the Council for his glory, and for the edification of the Church? For where is it that the promises by the which God doth promise his perpetual assistance, and an everlasting course of truth to his church, should have place, if not in such a company? Hath he not said: behold, my covenant which I have made with them. My spirit which is in thee, and my words which I have put into thy mouth, shall 2not depart from thy mouth, nor from the mouth of thy seed forever. And again, he will give you an other comforter, the spirit of truth, to the end that he tarry with you. And he shall 3lead you in the knowledge of all truth. D. I will not utterly deny all that thou sayest, if they come together to that end that thou speakest of. But all Synods, Seanes and Councils, have not always ben assembled in the name of Jesus ⟨p. 111⟩Christ. The examples which are in the ecclesiastical histories do witness the same, and the Canons and decrees which have been ordained and concluded in them. For oftentimes they repugn the one to the other, as much as do:
IF thou haddest tyme I woulde verye gladlye that thou wouldest continue those matters, of ye which ⟨p. 110⟩we did discourse at our laste departure of the one, from the other. D. I am readye when so euer thou wilte be ready to heare. And therfore declare what thou haste to saye, as touching the writings of the auncient Fathers and Doctors, & what difference there ought to be put betwene them and ye decrées passed and determined in the lawfull Councells. T. When these good fathers and auncient doctors, do teach or write any thing in particular, they may more easely erre, being as particulars, thē when they are assembled together at the Councel, in the which the spirit of God doth assiste in greater effecte and vertue, in so much as the giftes & graces which he hath geuen to euery member of the body of Iesus Christ, are all there together euen as it were in one perfecte 1body. Wherefore the one helpeth the other, and euery man feeleth the more presently the vertue of the spirit of God in himself. For if Saule which was forsaken of God, dyd prophecie among the Prophets, after yt he was come into their companies, in such sort that it became a common prouerbe among the Hebrewes, and it was sayd: is not Saule also amongest the Prophets? Is it not more like to be true that God will geue the spirite of prophecie to them that come together to the Councell for his glory, and for the edification of the Church? For where is it that the promises by ye which God doth promyse his perpetuall assistaunce, and an euerlasting course of truth to his church, shoulde haue place, if not in such a company? Hath he not sayd: behold, my couenaunt which I haue made with them. My spirit which is in thee, and my wordes which I haue put into thy mouth, shal 2not depart frō thy mouth, nor frō the mouth of thy seede foreuer. And agayne, he will geue you an other comforter, the spirit of truth, to the end that he tarye with you. And he shal 3lead you in the knowledge of all truth. D. I will not vtterly denie al that thou saiest, if they come together to that end that thou speakest of. But al Synedes, Seanes and Councels, haue not alwayes ben assembled in the name of Iesus ⟨p. 111⟩Christ. The examples which are in the ecclesiasticall hystoryes doe witnesse the same, and the Canons and decrees which haue bene ordayned and concluded in them. For oftentimes they repugne the one to the other, as much as do:
the fire and water.
the fyre and water.
T. I Would very gladly that thou wouldest prove by some examples worthy of faith, that which thou now sayest. D. Even those same that have been most lawfully assembled, although they have ordained & established very good things, founded upon the word of God, and that they have mightily defended the cause of the truth, & that God hath not suffered them to err in the chief points, & in matters that are properly the very substance of religion, and do concern the articles of the faith, necessary unto salvation: yet doth it not follow for all that, but that they may have erred in some things, & that they may have made constitutions that sometime are more contrary to the word of God, than conformable. And without seeking any further, we need but to examine the Canons, decrees & ordinances of the Council of Nice, which is accounted the chief of all, next to the Council of the Apostles, & of all yt rest consequently, which men think to be yt most perfect & certain, & most worthy of credit: and it shall be easy to judge, if every of them hold in all respects the Apostolic majesty & authority, how far of they are oftentimes from the purity of doctrine, which was in the primitive church. For God would not do unto others that honour, which he hath done to his Prophets, & Apostles: to the end that the human authority should not be comparable to the divine, which ought always to be preferred. How many laws & constitutions may men find made in these Councils, which draw more ⟨p. 112⟩near to mans wisdom: or to Jewish and Paganish superstition, then to the simplicity of the doctrine of the Apostles? I speak of the very same that have been decreed by those Councils that are best allowed in the church of God and Christ, and are worthy to be esteemed the true servants of God.
T. I Would very gladly yt thou wouldest proue by some examples worthy of fayth, yt which thou now sayest. D. Euen those same yt haue bene most lawfullye assembled, although thei haue ordained & established very good things, founded vpon the word of God, and yt they haue mightelye defended the cause of ye truth, & that God hath not suffered them to erre in the chiefe pointes, & in matters that are properly the very substance of religion, and do concerne the articles of the fayth, necessarye vnto saluation: yet doth it not follow for all yt, but yt they may haue erred in some thinges, & that they may haue made constitutions that somtime are more contrary to ye word of God, thē cōformable. And without seking any further, we nede but to examine ye Canons, decrées & ordinaunces of the Councell of Nice, which is accompted ye chiefe of all, next to ye Councell of ye Apostles, & of all yt reste consequently, which men thinke to be yt most perfect & certayn, & most worthy of credite: and it shall be easye to iudge, if euery of thē hold in al respectes ye Apostolike maiestie & authoritie, how farre of they are oftentimes frō ye puritie of doctrine, which was in ye primitiue church. For God would not do vnto others that honour, which he hath done to his Prophets, & Apostles: to the end yt the humaine authoritie should not be cōparable to ye deuine, which ought alwaies to be preferred. How many lawes & constitutions may men fynde made in these Councels, which draw more
T. Thou speakest as yet but in general: I pray thee let us now come to particular examples. D. We spake lastly of the Council of Nice: but thinkest thou that all the decrees of the same be as well founded upon the holy Scriptures, as were the disputations, arrests and determinations which were there agreed upon against the Arians? T. I have no occasion to doubt it, if I see not the contrary. D. If all those which are named unto it, were there determined, there are some touching the discipline of the Church very superstitious & curious, and an other sort rigorous and curious enough. Moreover I see no great appearance in that which forbiddeth men to kneel, when they pray on the Sundays, and on the day of Pentecost. I leave that whereof Gracian maketh mention under the same title, concerning the consecration of temples or churches: because it is to beastly and to unworthy of such a Council. On the other part, how much wanted it that it was not forbidden the ministers of the church to use their lawful wives, yea by the common consent of all such as did there assist, directly against the word of God, if one Paphnutius had not had more of the spirit of God in that behalf, then all 1the rest of the Council, who letted that determination, by the very word of God. Moreover in the same Council was not the Emperor Constantine greatly ashamed, to hear ⟨p. 113⟩the Bishops and pastors of the church, which were men so greatly esteemed for their doctrine and holiness of life, so to accuse the one the other (being personages of so great honesty) and to contend and outrage one an other, as it had been a number of women that had chidden. Was he not constrained to caste all their accusations and libels of evil report (which they had prepared the one against the other) in to the fire? For he well understood that these affections and particular causes which they had one against an other, should hinder the principal causes for the which they were assembled. For many of them were more affectionate to their particular causes, then to the common cause: and desired more their victory, then that of the truth. There were there, three hundred and threescore Bishops by account in that Council, the flower of Christendom:
T. THou speakest as yet but in generall: I praye thee let vs now come to particular examples. D. We spake lastly of the Councell of Nice: but thinkest thou that all the decrees of the same be as wel founded vpon the holy Scriptures, as were the disputations, arrestes and determinations which were there agreed vpon against the Arrians? T. I haue no occasion to doubt it, if I see not the contrarye. D. If all those which are named vnto it, were there determined, there are some touching the discipline of the Church very supersticious & curious, and an other sorte rigorous and curious inough. Moreouer I see no greate apparence in that which forbiddeth men to knele, when they praye on the Sondaies, and on the day of Pentecoste. I leaue that whereof Gracian maketh mencion vnder the same title, concerning the consecratiō of temples or churches: because it is to beastly and to vnworthy of such a Councell. On the other part, how much wanted it that it was not forbidden the ministers of the church to vse their lawfull wiues, yea by the common consent of all suche as dyd there assiste, directlye agaynst the worde of God, if one Paphnutius had not had more of the spirite of God in that behalfe, then all
among whom was this Paphnutius, a Bishop of Egypt, of whom we have already spoken, a very man of God who had endured much for the truth, and had the gift of miracle. Spiridion Bishop, of Cypre, who was a very excellent personage, there was in like sort present: Paul Neocharien Martyr, who had both his hands burnt in the persecution, of Maximian, and many other such like who had the gift of miracle, and had behaved them selves valiantly and constantly in that persecution, if then the imperfections, weaknesses and affections were so great among the Bishops, in such a company, that Constantine was all amazed and ashamed, to see at such a time, that so worthy personages should show them selves, in such sort men, and so subject to their affections: let us then think what might be in our time, and what assistance of the holy Ghost we may hope: for in such a company as shall there assemble. T. It is easy to discern.
amonge whom was thys Paphnutius, a Byshop of Egipte, of whom wee haue alreadye spoken, a very man of God who had endured muche for the truth, and had the gifte of myracle. Spiridion Bishop, of Cypre, who was a very excellent personnage, there was in lyke sorte present: Paule Neocharien Martyr, who had both hys handes burnte in the persecution, of Maximian, and many other suche lyke who had the gifte of miracle, and had behaued them selues valiauntly and constauntly in that persecution, if then the imperfections, weakenesses and affections wer so great among the Byshoppes, in suche a companie, that Constantine was all amased and ashamed, to see at suche a tyme, that so worthy personnages shoulde shewe them selues, in suche sorte men, and so subiecte to their affections: let vs then thincke what myght bee in our tyme, and what assistaunce of the holy Ghost wee may hope: for in suche a companie as shall there assemble. T. It is easie to discerne.
D. Let us proceed: and for greater proof of that which we have said, let men see in the histories of the Church what the partialities, the bands and dissentions of the Bishops have done, in the Councils holden in Tyr, in Jerusalem, in Antioch, in Sirmie, and at Constantinople. Moreover 1how hath the Council of Alexandria troubled that of Calcedonie, and the Council of Antioch, that of Ephesus. There arose so great trouble in Christendom, and it was so divided and was so full of sects, Schisms, heresies and humane affections, that if men should have given more place to the favour of Emperors, kings and princes, to the assembles of Popes and Bishops, to the authority of Councils, to the art and eloquence of Orators, to the subtlety & understanding of Philosophers, than to the truth, it had ben needful to have abrogated, cased, undone, and abolished, that which had ben agreed, determined and holily confessed for Christ, and for the Christian doctrine, in the Councils of Nice, Milan, Sardice, Corduba and such like, many other Councils, which were holden after them, would have overthrown all that ever was determined and agreed upon in them, which had not much less appearance then the others. If they had not so much or more. And the matters whereof the differences did grow, were of no small importance. For there was question of the divinity of Christ against 2the Arians, for the which the Bishops of the East and West did celebrate & hold Councils, the one against the other, the one sort condemning the cause and doctrine of the Arians, the other sort approving and maintaining the same.
D. LEt vs procede: and for greater proofe of that whiche we haue said, let men see in the hystories of ye Church what the partialities, the bandes and dissentions of the Bishops haue done, in the Councels holden in Tyr, in Ierusalem, in Antioche, in Sirmie, and at Constantinople. Moreouer 1howe hath the Councell of Alexandrie troubled that of Calcedonie, and the Councell of Antioche, that of Ephesus. There arose so great trouble in Christendome, and it was so denided and was so full of sectes, Scismes, heresies and humane affections, that if men shoulde haue gyuen more place to the fauour of Emperors, kinges and princes, to the assembles of Popes and Bishops, to the authoritie of Councels, to the arte and eloquence of Orators, to the subtilitie & vnderstandyng of Philosophers, thē to the truth, it had ben nedefull to haue abrogated, cassed, vndone, and abolished, that whiche had ben agreed, determined and hollyly confessed for Christe, and for the Christian doctrine, in the Councels of Nice, Millane, Sardice, Corduba and such like, many other Councels, whiche were holden after them, would haue ouerthrowē all that euer was determined and agreed vpon in them, which had not much lesse apparence then the others. Yf they had not so much or more. And the matters wherof the differences did growe, were of no small importaunce. For there was question of the diuinitie of Christ agaynst
T. Thou doest declare unto me, things very unpleasant and offensive to those that are Christians. D. There is yet much more, as well of Councils, as of Popes which ⟨p. 115⟩will be the presidents of them. For how many Popes have there been that have condemned and abolished that, which their predecessors have established & ordained? What a non ber hath there ben of them, which have even as the ancient Romaine Emperors did, who when they possessed the Empire after the decease of their predecessors, did abrogate and make of none effect, all that ever their predecessors had established and ordained? Behold one Pope shall make laws, and shall cause a Council to be holden for his purpose, in the which he will ordain, what so ever shall please him, and shall command it under pain of excommunication and everlasting cursing, that the same shall be kept and observed among the Christian people. And after him there shall come an other, which shall abolish all that, and shall do clean contrary, he shall excommunicate and curse all those that will do that which before was commanded under pain of excommunication and damnation. T. If it be so, the Christian people can not choose but stand always a cursed. D. It is certain. For it is an impossibility to observe and keep their Decrees and ordinances, without falling into such perplexities and inconveniences: he that will not believe me, let him read their Canons and Decrees, and Platina which hath written, the lives of the Popes, and hath been nourished and brought up in their Court, and Sabellicus, & the other historians which have entreated of these matters. T. I beseech thee show me some examples to prove this to be true, to the end that I may not think that thou speakest of pleasure, without proof. D. If I should allege all those that I might gather out of their books, I could find enough wherewith to outretayne thee a long time: but I will hold me contented with a reasonable number, to satisfy thy request. We will first speak of the Canons and Decrees that the Popes have made the one sort contrary to the other. 1What agreement is there between the Pope John, the xxij. & the Pope Nicholas, when the one pronounced judicially ye ⟨p. 116⟩Jesus Christ and his Apostles possessed nothing neither in private ne yet in common: and the other did the clean contrary.