A14462:282
A14462:282
The first part of the Christian instruction, and general so[m]me of the doctrine, contained in the holy Scriptures wherein the principal points of the religion are familiarly handled by dialogues, very necessary to be read of all Christians. Translated into English, by John Shute, according to the late copy set forth, by th'author Master Peter Viret. 1565. Overseen and perused, according to the order appointed, by the Queens majesties injunctions.The firste parte of the Christian instruction, and generall so[m]me of the doctrine, conteyned in the holy Scriptures wherein the principall pointes of the religion are familiarly handled by dialogues, very necessary to be read of all Christians. Translated into Englishe, by Iohn Shute, accordyng to the late copy set forth, by th'author Maister Peter Viret. 1565. Ouersene and perused, accordyng to the order appointed, by the Queenes maiesties iniunctions.
London: printed by John Day, 1565London: printed by Iohn Day, 1565
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
D. IF I should allege the dissentions, that have ben in diverse Councils concerning Images, it would require 1a long time. For Gregory the iij. decreed by his Council in Italy, that Images should be honoured in the Churches, and did revolt and caused Rome, and all Italy, to rebel against the Emperor Leo the iij. which was of contrary 2mind. And afterward Constantine the v. son to the said Leo, did ordain the contrary in the Council of Asia, and Gretia, about the year seven hundred forty and six, at the which there were assembled thirty eight Bishops at Constantinople. ⟨p. 121⟩Again Stephen the iij. Pope, condemned this Council of Constantine, by an other Council, which he caused to be holden at Rome in the Church of Lateran, by the Bishops of Italy and France. The which thing was done again by an other Council, in the time of Irene, wife to Leo the iiij. After that, the Council of Nice (in the which the Greeks would have condemned the Images again) was enforced to break up, by means of the dissentions that there were, and through the practises of those that held for the Pope. Whilst these things were in hand in Greece, the Council Elibertin was holden in Spain, by twenty & nine Bishops, and thirty six Spanish Priests, which pronounced their sentences against Images: who were also condemned by the twelfeth Council of Tolled, and afterward for the Popes pleasure, and for the French kings sake, they were again allowed by an other Council. T. Here was good stuff.
D. IF I should alledge the dissentions, that haue ben in diuerse Coūcels concernyng Images, it would require 1a longe tyme. For Gregorie the iij. decreed by his Councell in Italie, that Images should be honored in the Churches, and did reuolte and caused Rome, and all Italie, to rebell agaynst the Emperour Leo the iij. whiche was of contrarie 2minde. And afterwarde Constantine the v. sonne to the sayd Leo, did ordeyne the contrarie in the Councell of Asia, and Gretia, about the yeare seuen hundred fortie and sixe, at the which there were assembled thirtie eight Byshops at Constantinople. ⟨p. 121⟩Agayn Stephen the iij. Pope, condempned this Councell of Constantine, by an other Councell, whiche he caused to be holden at Rome in the Church of Laterane, by the Bishops of Italie and Fraunce. The which thynge was done again by an other Councel, in ye tyme of Hir•ne, wyfe to Leo the iiij. After that, the Councell of Nice (in the which the Greekes would haue condempned the Images agayne) was enforced to breake vp, by meanes of the dissentiōs that there were, and throughe the practises of those that helde for the Pope. Whilest these thinges were in hand in Grece, the Councel Elibertin was holdē in Spayn, by twentie & nine Bishops, and thirtie sixe Spanish Priests, which pronounced their sentences against Images: who were also condēpned by the twelfeth Councell of Tolede, and afterward for the Popes pleasure, and for the French kinges sake, they were agayne alowed by an other Councell. T. Here was good stuffe.
D. IT is no marvel since that the Romish Popes have usurped tyranny over the Church, and especially sith the time of the Emperor Phocas, if that there hath been small reason to be found in any of the Councils, but I will allege you others more ancient. It was concluded in the Council of Carthage (at the which S. Cyprian was present 1with. lxxxvi. Bishops, to wit in manner with all the Bishops of Aphrike, Numidia, and Mauritania) that the Baptism administered by heretics, should have no place, but that those which had been Baptised by them, should be Baptised again. The which sentence was afterward condemned, as appeareth. Dist 5 quare.
D. IT is no maruayle since that the Romishe Popes haue vsurped tyrannie ouer the Church, and especially sythe the tyme of the Emperour Phocas, if that there hath beene smal reason to be found in any of the Councells, but I wil alledge you others more auncient. It was concluded in the Councell of Carthage (at the which S. Cyprian was present 1with. lxxxvi. Bishops, to wit in maner with all the Bishops of Aphrike, Numidie, and Mauritanie) that the Baptisme administred by heretikes, shoulde haue no place, but that those which had beene Baptised by them, shoulde bee Baptised agayne. The which sentence was afterward condempned, as appeareth. Dist 5 quare.
T. These against whom thou doest inveigh, will confess unto thee that the Councils, yea the general Councils, §11in that that concerneth the manners and discipline of the Church, have oftentimes determined diverse things without any prejudice of the faith, according to the condition & circumstance of the places, times and men, and such like. 1For this cause Innocent the third said. That it ought not to be judged a thing worthy of blame, if that according to the change of time, mens ordinances did also change, chiefly when an urgent necessity and an apparent commodity doth require it. For God himself hath changed diverse of those things in the new Testament which he ordained in the old. And therefore men may not rashly judge and say, that the Councils are contrary the one sort to the other, although that in things concerning the policy of the church more then the faith, the one hath oftentimes changed: that the other hath decreed. For the lawful general Councils, were never contrary the one to the other in any piece of the substance of our faith, which is necessary to our salvation. And in this sort must it be understood that S. Augustine hath said. The former Councils have been amended 2by the latter: and that the ordinances and decrees of provincial Councils, ought to give place to those of greater Councils: but the Canonical Scripture doth give place to none. And as touching the Council of Carthage, it was no general but a particular Council, as Saint Augustine proveth against the Donatists. And in deed they deny not but that particular Councils may err: and that they ought to be reformed by the general, as it is already declared.
T. THese against whō thou doest inuey, will confesse vnto thée that the Councells, yea the general Councels, §11in that that concerneth the manners and discipline of the Church, haue oftentimes determined diuerse thyngs without any preiudice of the fayth, according to the condition & circumstance of the places, times and men, and such lyke. 1For this cause Innocent the third sayd. That it ought not to be iudged a thing worthy of blame, if that according to the chaunge of time, mens ordinaunces dyd also chaunge, chiefely when an vrgent necessitie and an apparaunt commoditie doth requyre it. For God himselfe hath chaūged diuerse of those things in the new Testament which he ordeined in the olde. And therfore mē may not rashlye iudge and say, that the Councells are contrary the one sort to ye other, although that in thinges concerning the policie of ye church more then the fayth, the one hath oftentimes chaunged: that the other hath decreed. For the lawfull generall Councells, were neuer contrarye the one to the other in anye peece of the substaunce of our fayth, which is necessarye to our saluation. And in this sort muste it be vnderstoode that S. Augustine hath sayd. The former Councells haue bene amended
D. Then they do confess, at the least, that the provincial Councils may err, yea even those, in the which the ⟨p. 123⟩most wise and holy men that were in the world since the Apostles time have been present. For S. Cyprian was one 1of the best learned men that hath been in the church since that time, and was of such zeal towards the word of God and his church, that he dyed a martyr for the truth of Jesus Christ, And then judge you that if a Council in the which such personages were, might err: what we may think of many Idolatries and superstitions, and of many vain ceremonies, traditions and abuses that have been sowed in the church, not by Councils and particular Synods only, but by particular men, who have charged the church to what so ever pleased them. For one hooded Monk or Fryer had been sufficient to have invented a thousand manner of doings clean contrary to the Scriptures, and forthwith they should have been put in use, and allowed as if they had been articles of the faith. If it were lawful then to change those same very things which the general and lawful Councils had decreed, concerning the policy and discipline of the Church, as touching their manners, according to the needfulness of the circumstances, and the capacity of men, of places and times: it ought then to be no less lawful to those unto whom God hath given the knowledge of his word to condemn and abolish so many abuses & innumerable errors, which by so many means and wrong ways, without order or ecclesiastic discipline have been sowed in the Church of the Lord: and are so intolerable, that the very greatest enemies of verity, even the Romaine Antichrist have been constrained to confess it. And without going any further to prove it, did not the Pope Adrian confess, not many years since, that there were many enormities and inconveniences in the Romish seat, and many abuses, offences, and disorders in the government of the Church? And beside this, what confession did the Legates and orators of the Pope Paul deceased make, at the Council of Trent, of the estate of their church? ⟨p. 124⟩But what wilt thou say if I do prove by S. Augustine that not only the provincial and national Councils may be corrected by the great and general Councils, but also even they them selves may be corrected the one by the others, the first by the last. T.
If it be so, our adversaries should not then think it strange if we would not wholly dwell upon the authority of their Councils. D. That same doth plainly appear by his writings, whereupon he declareth, when that same ought to be done and by what mean: To wit, that when by experience of things, that which was secret is opened, and that which was hidden is known, without any puffing up in pride full of sacrilege, without any swollen arrogance, without any contention and envy, but with holy humility, with the universal Christian peace, he speaketh here generally of all Councils, and of all that ever may be determined in them.
If it be so, our aduersaries shoulde not then thinke it straunge if we would not wholly dwell vppon the authoritie of their Councells. D. That same doth playnlye appeare by his writinges, wherevpon he declareth, when that same ought to be done and by what meane: To witte, that when by experience of thinges, that which was secret is opened, and that which was hidden is knowen, without any puffing vp in pryde full of sacrilege, without any swollen arrogancie, withoute any contention and enuye, but with holy humilitie, with the vniuersall Christiā peace, he speaketh here generally of all Councells, and of all that euer may be determined in them.
T. They do not utterly deny but that there are some abuses and errors in the Church, but they say that it appertaineth not to every man to reform them: but that the charge thereof belongeth to the prelates of the Church, unto whom GOD hath given it. Wherefore, they think meet, to have a general Council, to determine what things should be observed, and what should be abolished, before that any thing should be changed or altered. D. The Seducers and false Prophets, which filled the church with errors, did not tarry a general Council to pour out their poison and to corrupt the Church of the Lord, but we must tarry for a Council to purge it: and in the ⟨p. 125⟩mean time the poor souls shall go to the devil. Must we put the matter in question in a Council, whether we ought to believe that Jesus Christ is God, and the very Son of God, and our only Saviour and redeemer? Shall we do as did the Emperor Tiberius, who put the matter in deliberation in the Council at Rome, with the prerogative of his voice and the testimony of his consent, whether Christ should be accepted and received amongest the Gods, or no? Which thing he did for that (as Tertullian witnesseth) that the Romans had a very ancient law, by the which it was ordained, that there should 1be no God canonized by the Emperors, and that none should be so received, unless he were allowed and confirmed by the Council. For this cause Jesus Christ was not received for a God, because it pleased not the Council: albeit that the Emperor was of contrary opinion. T. Then had not the Emperor so great authority in the Council at Rome, ne yet in his Empire as the Pope will challenge over the Councils, over the whole church, over all Christendom, yea and over the word of god it self. D. It is true, and therefore I fear greatly that if Jesus Christ were now to be received, he should be as far of from being received at the Councils, in the which this Romaine Antichrist doth preside, as he was then at that Council of Rome. For sith they do reject and disallow his doctrine, they do sufficiently declare what opinion they have of him. T. It can not be better known by any thing then by that, for that is a proof most sure.
T. THey doe not vtterly denye but that there are some abuses and errours in the Church, but they say that it appertayneth not to euery man to reforme them: but that the charge thereof belongeth to the prelates of the Church, vnto whom GOD hath geuen it. Wherfore, they thinke meete, to haue a generall Councell, to determyne what thynges shoulde bee obserued, and what shoulde bee abolyshed, before that any thyng shoulde be chaunged or altered. D. The Seducers and false Prophets, which filled ye church with errours, dyd not tarye a generall Councell to poure out their poyson and to corrupte the Church of the Lorde, but we muste tarrye for a Councell to pourge it: and in the
D. IF they think him to be the very Son of God, and that his Gospel is the word of God, they need not to ⟨p. 126⟩tarry for a Council to determine whether it shall be received and observed, or no, but would rather endeavour themselves to put in execution those things which are not in controversy, but are already agreed upon & resolved among all men, as well by the word of God, as by their own Councils. Let them therefore correct their ignorance and beastliness, their negligence and slothfulness in the executing of their office, and their pomps and ambition, their insatiable covetousness, their execrable whoredom, with the number of those horrible vices which reign among them. For there needeth not any tarrying for yt Council, to condemn or allow it, for it is already resolved. Why do they not observe the decrees of the Pope Alexander the third, of Gelase, of Nicolas the second, of the Elibertin Council of Tolled, of Carthage, of * Cabylone, of Chalcedony, and of Lateran, which have forbidden to any, money or presents for the satisfaction of sins, for baptism, for the churches, for the Sacraments, and for the gifts of God: which ordained also that none should be advanced to any place in the church for money, ne yet for rewards: and that he should be holden for Apostatic, and not for Apostolic, that should obtain the seat of Rome, either by money or else by favour? Why are not the poor nourished and clad, and also the sick and weak, by the Bishops, according to the ordinances of the Aurelian Council? Why do the Monks possess any thing in proper, contrary to the determination of that same Council? But all this is old and abolished, why may we not lawfully reproach them in that sort that Jesus Christ did those Jews, which sought to have him dead, because he had healed a man sick of the Palsy upon the Sabbath day: and yet left not they to violate and break the whole law upon the Sabbath day? And therefore he said unto them, did not Moses give you the law, 1and none of you observeth the same? Why do you seek to put me to death? They declared plainly by that what ⟨p. 127⟩zeal they had to the law, and yet would they show as though they had a great care for the observation thereof, and chiefly in the pursuit which they made against Jesus Christ.
These good men do even the like, making a show as though they did greatly desire the reformation of the Church, and yet in the mean time there is no one piece of the word of God, Council nor Canon which they do not violate and corrupt, without giving order in any one thing. Now seeing that men are come so far, there needeth now but a Council to abolish the rest that remaineth: for who be they that shall hold it? Even those which have sowed, authorised, and allowed these errors and abuses. And yet will they glory that their law, and faith, with their whole religion is so well approved, that no one jot thereof ought to be called in doubt. It may be no more disputed of, then may the Alcoran of Mahomet among the Turks, but must be holden for fully resolved, what so ever they do approve or disallow.
These good men doe euen the lyke, making a shewe as though they dyd greatlye desire the reformation of the Church, and yet in the meane tyme there is no one peece of the worde of God, Councell nor Canon which they doe not violate and corrupte, without geuing order in anye one thing. Nowe seing that men are come so farre, there needeth nowe but a Councell to abolishe the reast that remayneth: for who be they that shall holde it? Euen those which haue sowed, authorised, and allowed these errours and abuses. And yet will they glorye that their law, and fayth, with their whole religion is so well approued, that no one iote thereof ought to be called in doubte. It may be no more disputed of, then maye the Alcoran of Mahomet amonge the Turkes, but must be holden for fullye resolued, what so euer they do approue or disalowe.