A14463:1461
A14463:1461
A Christian instruction, containing the law and the Gospel Also a summary of the principal points of the Christian faith and religion, and of the abuses and errors contrary to the same. Done in certain dialogues in french, by M. Peter Viret, sometime minister of the Word of God at Nymes in Province. Translated by I.S. Seen and allowed according to the Queens Majesties injunctions.A Christian instruction, conteyning the law and the Gospell Also a summarie of the principall poyntes of the Christian fayth and religion, and of the abuses and errors contrary to the same. Done in certayne dialogues in french, by M. Peter Viret, sometime minister of the Word of God at Nymes in Prouince. Translated by I.S. Seene and allowed according to the Queenes Maiesties iniunctions.
London: printed by Henry Bynneman? for Abraham Veale, 1573
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
P. No. For the Father cannot be without the son, and the holy Ghost, as the son and the holy Ghost cannot be without the father.
P. No. For the Father cannot be without the sonne, and the holy Ghost, as the sonne and the holy Ghost cannot be without the father.
M. Show me then in what other sort the father is before the son, and the father and the son before the holy Ghost.
M. Shewe me then in what other sorte the father is before the sonne, and the father and the sonne before the holy Ghoste.
P. Thou must fourthly note, concerning things that be equal of time, of dignity, and of nature, that forasmuch as a man cannot consider and comprehend them all at one time or instant, we do consider them the one after the other, and we place the one before the other, even as we comprehend and dispose them in our understanding. And even so, that which we first consider and comprehend, or that which first is showed unto us, is first in order in respect of us, albeit that it be equal to the others, of time, of dignity, ⟨p. 214⟩and of nature.
P. Thou must fourthly note, concerning thinges that be equall of time, of dignitie, and of nature, that for asmuch as a man cannot consider and comprehend them all at one time or instante, we do consider them the one after the other, and we place the one before the other, euen as we comprehende and dispose them in our vnderstanding. And euen so, that whiche wée firste consider and comprehende, or that which firste is shewed vnto vs, is firste in order in respecte of vs, albeit that it be equall to the others, of time, of dignitie, ⟨p. 214⟩and of nature.
M. In so doing that which we place first or last, is neither first nor last in it self, but only in our understanding and in regard of the same, which because of his weakness, is enforced to depart that which is joined together, and to divide that which cannot in it self be separate, to the end that he may the better comprehend by parts that which he cannot wholly at a time comprehend.
M. In so doing that whiche we place firste or laste, is neyther firste nor last in it selfe, but only in our vnderstanding and in regarde of the same, whiche bycause of hys weakenesse, is enforced to departe that whiche is ioyned togither, and to deuide that which cannot in it selfe be separate, to the ende that hée may the better comprehende by partes that whiche he cannot wholly at a time comprehende.
P. Thou sayest very well.
Matthew. Is it then thy meaning, that in this sort we please the Father as the first in the divine essence, and the son as the second, and the holy Ghost as the third, albeit that all these three divine persons be in one very essence and equal in all and by all, both in time, in dignity, and in nature, and in all things which belong to the nature of God?
Mathevv. Is it then thy meaning, that in this sorte we please the Father as the first in the diuine essence, and the sonne as the second, and the holy Ghost as the thirde, albeit that all these thrée diuine persons be in one very essence and equall in all and by all, both in time, in dignitie, and in nature, and in all things which belong to the nature of God?
P. We may very well take it so. But there is yet a fifth manner, which is also very agreeable to the point upon the which we are, the which hath a certain agreement with that before cited.
P. We maye very well take it so. But there is yet a fyfte manner, whiche is also very agréeable to the pointe vppon the whiche wée are, the which hath a certaine agréement with that before cited.
Matthew. Which is it.
Mathevv. Whiche is it.
Peter. It is among the things that are in such sort of one very nature, that ⟨p. 215⟩the one cannot be without the other, and yet for all that the one is as the spring of the other, and the other as a dependence of the same.
Peter. It is among the thinges that are in suche sorte of one very nature, that ⟨p. 215⟩the one cannot be withoute the other, and yet for all that the one is as the spring of the other, and the other as a dependaunce of the same.
Matthew. Give me an example of the same.
Mathevv. Gyue me an example of the same.
Peter. The light and the shining or brightness, cannot be the one without the other. For the light doth engender and bring forth the shining. And albeit that the one be not before the other, yet we give the light the first place, as though it were before the shining as the mother of it, even as also we consider the sun before his beams and his heat, albeit they be all at once.
Peter. The lighte and the shyning or brightnesse, cannot be the one withoute the other. For the lighte doth engender and bring foorthe the shyning. And albeit that the one be not before the other, yet we gyue the lyghte the firste place, as though it were before the shyning as the mother of it, euen as also we consider the sunne before his beames and his heate, albeit they be all at once.
Matthew. Thou meanest then that God hath so declared himself to us in his works and in his word, and by such mean, and in such order.
Mathevv. Thou meanest then that God hathe so declared himselfe to vs in his workes and in his worde, and by such meane, and in suche order.
Pet. It cannot be otherwise understood without overthrowing of all that which is set forth to us in the holy scriptures of the unity of god, and of the Trinity of persons, in the essence of the same.
Pet. It cannot bée otherwise vnderstoode without ouerthrowing of al that which is set foorth to vs in ye holy scriptures of ye vnitie of god, and of the Trinitie of persons, in ye essence of ye same.
P. Seeing that it is so, the which thou sayest agreeth alway with that which I even now said, to wit, the that which we place first, second, and third, amongst the persons ⟨p. 216⟩which are in the divine essence, is more in respect of our understanding, than of the divine nature, wherein, to speak properly, there is neither first, second nor third, seeing there is no difference, neither of time, nor of dignity nor of nature: but only in the order according to the which God hath manifested himself to us in his word, according as our capacity may best comprehend him.
P. Séeing that it is so, ye which thou saist agréeth alway wc yt which I euē now said, to wit, ye that whiche we place firste, second, and thirde, amongst the persons ⟨p. 216⟩whiche are in the diuine essence, is more in respect of our vnderstanding, than of the diuine nature, wherein, to speake properly, there is neyther firste, seconde nor thirde, seing there is no difference, neyther of time, nor of dignitie nor of nature: but only in the order according to the whiche God hath manifested himselfe to vs in his word, according as our capacitie may best comprehend him.
P. Seeing that God is eternal and infinite in himself, and that we cannot comprehend him in that infiniteness and eternity, it hath pleased him so to show himself to us, making himself meet, as thou haste already said, to the rudeness of our understandings. And therefore he will that we know him, and that we speak in such sort in the which he hath declared himself to us by his word and by his works, and not otherwise.
P. Seeing that God is eternall and infinite in hymselfe, and that we cannot comprehende him in that infinitenesse and eternitie, it hath pleased him so to shewe himselfe to vs, making himselfe méete, as thou haste alredy said, to the rudenesse of our vnderstandings. And therefore he will that we know him, and that we speake in suche sorte in the whiche he hath declared hymselfe to vs by his worde and by hys works, and not otherwise.