An apologetical reply to a book called an answer to the unjust complaint of…An apologeticall reply to a booke called an ansvver to the unjust complaint of…

To the first, For a man of plausible gifts, eminent, and of fame, & wanting present employment, to present himself where a place is vacant where much contention hath been &c. I answer. 1. For the titles which he giveth me, I account them, as they fall from his pen, but an honourable reproach. 2. For the matter of it:¹ The extreme necessity of the place, he being so weak and unfit to preach, together with the importunity of those that solicited me, was the cause moving me (who then was out of employment, and in continual danger) to come over to that place, choosing rather to cast my self upon Gods providence, in perils of the sea, and in a strange land, where I might be of some use to the Church, for a time, then to live privately, but neither safely nor profitably, in my own land, in hope that 3 or 4 month would quiet, and pacify their spirits, that were most exasperated and incensed against me, without any just cause; that so my return to my own land might be with safety and comfort. What if this might give them occasion of seeking, and calling me? will it thence follow, that I sought the place before I was called? or that I did intrude, or thrust my self in for a Pastor? ²or that I run before I was sent, as he slandereth me before? No marvel, if diverse learned and godly Ministers, being their neighbours in this country, have been loath to show themselves in this place &c. least they should seem to offer themselves unto this calling. For they knew the Answerers disposition and spirit, and the contentions which have thereby been in this place, which if I had known, so as now I do, no persuasions should have drawn me thither. And it is very likely, that I had stayed at Rotterdam till the Eldership had sent for me, as Mr. H. did, if the necessity of the place had not hurried me sooner, to prevent the shutting up of the Church doors, which (as I have been told, and the event showed) would come to pass the next Lords day, if my coming prevented it not. Yet two of the Elders, with some other members of the Congregation, met me at Harlem, and accompanied me to Amsterdam, & took care for my accommodation with a convenient entertainment:

To the first, For a man of plausible gifts, eminent, and of fame, & wanting present imployment, to present himselfe where a place is vacant where much contention hath bene &c. I answer. 1. For the titles which he giveth me, I account them, as they fall from his pen, but an honourable reproach. 2. For the matter of it:¹ The extreame necessity of the place, he being so weake and unfit to preach, together with the importunity of those that sollicited me, was the cause moving me (who then was out of imployment, and in continuall danger) to come over to that place, chusing rather to cast my selfe upon Gods providence, in perills of the sea, and in a strange land, where I might be of some use to the Church, for a time, then to live privately, but neither safely nor proffitably, in my owne land, in hope that 3 or 4 moneth would quiet, and pacifye theyre spirits, that were most exasperated and incensed against me, without any just cause; that so my returne to my owne land might be with safety and comfort. What if this might give them occasion of seeking, and calling me? will it thence follow, that I saught the place before I was called? or that I did intrude, or thrust my selfe in for a Pastor? ²or that I runne before I was sent, as he slandereth me before? No marvell, if diverse learned and godly Ministers, being theyre neighbours in this country, have bene loath to shew themselves in this place &c. least they should seeme to offer themselves unto this calling. For they knew the Answerers disposition and spirit, and the contentions which have thereby bene in this place, which if I had knowne, so as now I doe, no perswasions should have drawne me thither. And it is very likely, that I had stayed at Rotterdam till the Eldership had sent for me, as Mr. H. did, if the necessity of the place had not hurryed me sooner, to prevent the shutting up of the Church dores, which (as I have bene told, and the event shewed) would come to passe the next Lords day, if my comming prevented it not. Yet two of the Elders, with some other members of the Congregation, met me at Harlem, and accompanied me to Amsterdam, & tooke care for my accomodation with a convenient intertaynment:

1. 1Honorifica contumelia. Hieron ad Pammach: & Ocean.
2. 2Pag. 16▪

and, the joy, that was generally expressed soon ⟨p. 114⟩after my being there was known, showed a great desire in the members that they might enjoy me, And the Answerer himself, at that time, acknowledged Gods good providence in my being there, at that time, and jointly with the Elders, who were then present, when I first visited him, entreated my help the Lords day following, and so long as my time would permit, and their need should require.

and, the joy, that was generally expressed soone ⟨p. 114⟩after my being there was knowne, shewed a great desire in the members that they might injoy me, And the Answerer himselfe, at that time, acknowledged Gods good providence in my being there, at that time, and joyntly with the Elders, who were then present, when I first visited him, intreated my helpe the Lords day following, and so long as my time would permit, and theyre need should require.

To the second presumption, that they that sent for me, and I. C. that fetched me over, did not seek me but for 3 or 4 months; J answer. 1. Suppose their desire was to enjoy me longer; will it thence follow, that I yielded for longer time? 2. By what hath been formerly said it appeareth sufficiently that I agreed with him for no longer time, which himself is able and ready to testify. if it be required.

To the second praesumption, that they that sent for me, and I. C. that fetched me over, did not seeke me but for 3 or 4 moneths; J answer. 1. Suppose theyr desire was to injoy me longer; will it thence follow, that I yeelded for longer time? 2. By what hath bene formerly said it appeareth sufficiently that I agreed with him for no longer time, which himselfe is able and ready to testifye. if it be required.

Answer. I think, never did Laban search so narrowly Jacobs stuff to find his Idols, as this Answerer doeth to find an untruth in my assertion. To what end is this brought in? If he think, or would persuade others, that I procured that friends letter that I might obtain the place, he is much deceived. For neither stands it with my judgment to seek a place (much less by such private recommendations) nor need I the letters of any private friend, having a more public testimony. And how little I minded that letter, may appear in this, that I know not that it was unsealed, and, if indeed it was unsealed, I know not at all what was written in it. It is likely, that, knowing the author of it to be my approved friend, and one that hath deserved well of the Answerer, I supposed, he would commend me to him affectionately, to be lovingly entertained, & used by him in a strange Country, and so took no further heed to it. But, what if that friend did entreat him to receive me for a fellow helper? Will it follow thence, that I sought it? who seeth not the vanity of these pretences?

Answer. I thinck, never did Laban search so narrowly Iacobs stuff to find his Idolls, as this Answerer doeth to find an untrueth in my assertion. To what end is this brought in? If he thinck, or would perswade others, that I procured that freinds letter that I might obtaine the place, he is much deceived. For neither stands it with my judgment to seeke a place (much lesse by such private recommendations) nor need I the letters of any private freind, having a more publick testimony. And how litle I minded that letter, may appeare in this, that I know not that it was unsealed, and, if indeed it was unsealed, I know not at all what was written in it. It is likely, that, knowing the authour of it to be my approved freind, and one that hath deserved well of the Answerer, I supposed, he would commend me to him affectionately, to be lovingly intertayned, & used by him in a strange Country, and so tooke no further heed to it. But, what if that freind did intreate him to receive me for a fellowhelper? Will it follow thence, that I saught it? who seeth not the vanity of these pretences?

To the fourth presumption. That it was not likely, that, ⟨p. 115⟩after 3 or 4 months preaching amongst them, I could easily be dismissed, and their labour and care of seeking and calling another must be interrupted, if not wholly broken off.

To the fourth praesumption. That it was not likely, that, ⟨p. 115⟩after 3 or 4 moneths preaching amongst them, I could easily be dismissed, and theyre labour and care of seeking and calling another must be interruped, if not wholly broken off.

Answer. 1. Grant all this to be true: will it thence follow that I sought it? 2. Grant, that at the end of 3 or 4 months, I had accepted of a call to that place (which it is probable, I should have done, if it had been offered upon safe conditions, rather then to live without public employment) will it thence follow, that I inordinately desired, or basely, or unworthily sought it, or unwarrantably, or without a calling intruded my self? 3. what hindrance could my mere preaching there be to their seeking, or calling another, if I should refuse it? Let the indifferent Judge.

Answer. 1. Grant all this to be true: will it thence follow that I saught it? 2. Grant, that at the end of 3 or 4 moneths, I had accepted of a call to that place (which it is probable, I should have done, if it had bene offered upon safe conditions, rather then to live without publick imployment) will it thence follow, that I inordinately desired, or basely, or unworthily saught it, or unwarrantably, or without a calling intruded my selfe? 3. what hindrance could my mere preaching there be to theyre seeking, or calling another, if I should refuse it? Let the indifferent Iudge.

To what he saith in the two following answers, about the necessity of my knowing the state of the Dutch Churches, whet her I stayed here or not. I Answer, that even for that Reason, my coming over was needful. For no mans word or letters could make that so well known to me, as mine own observation, & experience hath done. But the supposition, whereupon he groundeth that opinion, I do not approve. For, in some cases, a good conscience suffers a man to be neutral, viz, in those things which he is not bound to know or practise, & wherein he hath wanted occasion, or means of full information. And what hurt can that man be supposed to do, by private conference, who suspendeth his judgment, and determineth neither way? Are not these passages mere ropes of sand?

To what he sayth in the two following answers, about the necessity of my knowing the state of the Dutch Churches, whet her I stayed here or not. I Answer, that even for that Reason, my comming over was needfull. For no mans word or letters could make that so well knowne to me, as myne owne observation, & experience hath done. But the suppositiō, whereupon he groundeth that opinion, I doe not approve. For, in some cases, a good conscience suffers a man to be neutrall, viz, in those things which he is not bound to know or practise, & wherein he hath wanted occasiō, or meanes of full informatiō. And what hurt can that man be supposed to doe, by private conference, who suspendeth his judgment, and determineth neyther way? Are not these passages mere roapes of sand?

Lastly. Whereas he seemeth to doubt, in the beginning of this Section, whether I came not over with a discordant mind; I profess, in simplicity of my heart, that I came over with a reverent esteem of him, and with confidence that I should reap more fruits of his brotherly love then I have received, and was far from any purpose of raising contention, which I naturally abhor, or suspicion, that I should have met with such contentions, as I have been troubled with, which if I had foreseen, J should never have come to Amsterdam. Yet I do not repine at, but contentedly submit to that good hand of Divine providence, which brought me hither, and is pleased this way ⟨p. 116⟩to try me, and do with a childlike submission and reverence (in my measure) kiss the rod in my Fathers hand, even when I lament the unkindness of my Elder brother, which yet I would not have published, if he would have suffered me to be silent.

Lastly. Whereas he seemeth to doubt, in the beginning of this Section, whether I came not over with a discordant mind; I professe, in simplicity of my heart, that I came over with a reverent esteeme of him, and with confidence that I should reape more fruits of his brotherly love then I have received, and was farr from any purpose of raysing contention, which I naturally abhorr, or suspition, that I should have met with such contentions, as I have bene troubled with, which if I had foreseene, J should never have come to Amsterdam. Yet I doe not repine at, but contentedly submit to that good hand of Divine providence, which brought me hither, and is pleased this way ⟨p. 116⟩to trye me, and doe with a childelike submission and reverence (in my measure) kisse the rod in my Fathers hand, even when I lament the unkindnes of my Elder brother, which yet I would not have published, if he would have suffered me to be silent.

The Answer to the eleventh Section examined. Of the private conference had with me after my coming over.

The Answer to the eleventh Section examined. Of the private conference had with me after my comming over.

IN this Section three things are to be considered. 1. his gird at Mr. Hook: 2. His partial and defective report of a conference between us. 3. his pretended answer to some passages in my third writing. These we will examine severally and briefly.

IN this Section three things are to be considered. 1. his gird at Mr. Hook: 2. His partiall and defective report of a conference betweene us. 3. his pretended answer to some passages in my third wrighting. These we will examine severally and breifely.

For the first. 1. the great disturbance, which here he seemeth to impute to Mr. Hook: is to be charged upon himself, and his own violent and unjust opposition against Mr. Hook: and the Church, and not at all to Mr. Hook: unless by accident, as Paul might be said to be an occasion of the disturbance at Ephesus,¹ the cause whereof was Demetrius & his companions. 2. It would be known how I seemed to accord with him, and to dislike Mr. Hook: opinions, in general? If he mean, by my my silence, I confess, I heard him speak some things, at which I was silent, being not called to speak. For himself said, that, in some of their differences, he would not inquire after my opinion, being persuaded that I was therein clear, And, in conclusion, pitched upon two questions. 1. Concerning the power and authority of C••sses, whereunto what I answered he knoweth. 2. Concerning promiscuous administration of Baptism, according to the custom of the Dutch Church in Amsterdam, wherein what I held and do hold shall appear.

For the first. 1. the great disturbance, which here he seemeth to impute to Mr. Hook: is to be charged upon himselfe, and his owne violent and unjust opposition against Mr. Hook: and the Church, and not at all to Mr. Hook: unles by accident, as Paul might be said to be an occasion of the disturbance at Ephesus,¹ the cause whereof was Demetrius & his companions. 2. It would be knowne how I seemed to accord with him, and to dislike Mr. Hook: opinions, in generall? If he meane, by my my silence, I confesse, I heard him speake some things, at which I was silent, being not called to speake. For himselfe said, that, in some of their differences, he would not inquire after my opinion, being perswaded that I was therein cleare, And, in conclusion, pitched upon two questions. 1. Concerning the power and authority of C••sses, whereunto what I answered he knoweth. 2. Concerning promiscuous administration of Baptisme, according to the custom of the Dutch Church in Amsterstam, wherein what I held and doe hold shall appeare.

1. 1Ast. 19.22.

For the second. By comparing this report with my notes of our conferences (which I wrote upon my return to my lodging ⟨p. 117⟩whilst matters were fresh in memory) I find it to be partial and defective.

For the second. By comparing this report with my noates of our conferences (which I wrote upon my returne to my lodging ⟨p. 117⟩whilest matters were fresh in memory) I finde it to be partiall and defective.

First, partial, in declaring the state of the question, which was not as he intimateth, but thus. After an historical narration made by him of a difference between the Classis and Mr. Hook; about a custom, which the Ministers of the Dutch Church in Amsterdam have, of baptizing all that are brought by whomsoever, he asked me what I thought of it. I desired (for my satisfaction) to know wh•t their custom was, being then, in part, ignorant thereof. He told me, that they baptized all, refusing none. I replied, that I would baptize all their infants, who were members of his Church, refusing none. He said, that is not sufficient. I, desiring to carry matters with all possible peaceableness, told him that I would not refuse to baptize others also, which were no members of his Church, if I were satisfied concerning the Parents, and instanced in such as might occasionally be there from England, & were sufficiently known to me. But yet the case might be such, in some others, as I should not adventure to do it. He answered. But here they except none, but baptize all that are brought, though the parents be not known, or the infant be presented, in the f•thers absence, by persons unknown. I told him, that, I hoped, such cases were seldom, especially in the English Church. He said, it must be expected to fall out often. I told him, I should desire to be satisfied concerning the parents, before the child were presented. He said. They would often bring them, in sermon time, without giving any notice before, and, in such a case, to refuse any, would give offence, if the child should be unbaptized. I replied, that offence may be prevented, seeing those, whom I dare not admit, may repair to the Dutch Church, where none are refused. He added, that it would give offence to the Classis, if our Church •hould not do as they did, in this. I answered, the difference between the small English Church, & the vast Dutch Church in the same town being considered, that might easily be answered.

First, partiall, in declaring the state of the question, which was not as he intimateth, but thus. After an hystoricall narration made by him of a difference betweene the Classis and Mr. Hook; about a custom, which the Ministers of the Dutch Church in Amsterdam have, of baptizing all that are brought by whomsoever, he asked me what I thought of it. I desired (for my satisfaction) to know wh•t their custom was, being then, in part, ignorant thereof. He told me, that they baptized all, refusing none. I replyed, that I would baptize all their infants, who were members of his Church, refusing none. He sayd, that is not sufficient. I, desiring to carry matters with all possible peaceablenes, told him that I would not refuse to baptize others also, which were no members of his Church, if I were satisfyed cōcerning the Parents, and instanced in such as might occasionally be there from England, & were sufficiently knowne to me. But yet the case might be such, in some others, as I should not adventure to doe it. He answered. But here they except none, but baptize all that are brought, though the parents be not knowne, or the infant be presented, in the fthers absence, by persons unknowne. I told him, that, I hoped, such cases were seldom, especially in the English Church. He said, it must be expected to fall out often. I told him, I should desire to be satisfyed concerning the parents, before the child were presented. He sayd. They would often bring them, in sermon time, without giving any notice before, and, in such a case, to refuse any, would give offence, if the child should be unbaptized. I replyed, that offence may be prevented, seing those, whom I dare not admit, may repayre to the Dutch Church, where none are refused. He added, that it would give offence to the Classis, if our Church hould not doe as they did, in this. I answered, the difference betweene the small English Church, & the vast Dutch Church in the same towne being considered, that might easily be answered.

By all which it appeareth that the thing which I refused (and whereupon our difference arose) was the promiscuous administration of baptism to all that are presented, by whomsoever; ⟨p. 118⟩and not that J made the parents submission to my private examination a necessary condition of baptism, but only I propounded it as a prudent mean for avoiding that promiscuous baptizing which he required. Thus the Reader may see the report to be partial.

By all which it appeareth that the thing which I refused (and whereupon our difference arose) was the promiscuous administration of baptisme to all that are presented, by whomsoever; ⟨p. 118⟩and not that J made the parents submission to my private examination a necessary condition of baptisme, but only I propounded it as a prudent meane for avoyding that promiscuous baptizing which he required. Thus the Reader may see the report to be partiall.

Secondly, it is defective, not mentioning diverse passages of discourse between us, which I will but point at. As about an order in the Classis, which he said was for this, concerning which, what I demanded and, what he answered, I will, for this time, conceal, as also what he spake about this custom being always observed in that Church, as also about passages that, he said, had been between the Classis, and Mr. Forbes about Mr. Hooker, in reference to this question. He omitteth also our discourse about the case of an unbaptized Turk presenting his child to baptism, with no other profession then that which is required in their Church. And how he thought it to be more for a mans satisfaction, to baptize all, upon the injunction of the Classis, then to refuse any, upon his own judgement. Other passages also I could name, but these may suffice, to show that his memory hath not retained particulars so well as my notes, at least, that this report is defective. But let us consider his Arguments.

Secondly, it is defective, not mentioning diverse passages of discourse betweene us, which I will but point at. As about an order in the Classis, which he sayd was for this, concerning which, what I demanded and, what he answered, I will, for this time, conceale, as also what he spake about this custom being alwaies observed in that Church, as also about passages that, he sayd, had bene betweene the Classis, and Mr. Forbes about Mr. Hooker, in reference to this question. He omitteth also our discourse about the case of an unbaptized Turke presenting his child to baptisme, with no other profession then that which is required in theyre Church. And how he thought it to be more for a mans satisfaction, to baptize all, upon the injunction of the Classis, then to refuse any, upon his owne judgement. Other passages also I could name, but these may suffice, to shew that his memory hath not retayned particulars so well as my noates, at least, that this report is defective. But let us consider his Arguments.