An apologetical reply to a book called an answer to the unjust complaint of…An apologeticall reply to a booke called an ansvver to the unjust complaint of…

The answer to the seventeenth Section examined, concerning my withdrawing of my consent first made known unto him, as is pretended.

The answer to the seaventeenth Section examined, concerning my withdrawing of my consent first made knowne unto him, as is pretended.

The title of this Section supposeth. 1. that I had consented, 2. that afterwards J with drew my consent: the untruth of both which assertions hath been shown in the foregoing Sections. Here, he speaketh of matters that passed between us the next Consistory, after this meeting of the Classis. The story whereof was thus. A writing, wherein the agreement of the Answerer with the officers of the Church about my calling, was delivered to me by the Answerer, & Mr. A, which when I had read, I first gave them thanks for this expression of their good esteem of me, and then, to omit other passages, desired to be certified, whether the order was made in the Consistory which was promised. Whereby it appeareth that I still expected that an order should be made, more to my content then yet it had been. For answer hereunto, the Answerer told me, that they could do no more in that business, then had been done formerly When I heard this, & perceived, by a clause in that writing, that, in accepting this call, I should bind my self to conform to ⟨p. 188⟩the orders and customs of the Dutch Church in this particular, as well as in others, I made some demur indeed, and desired time for deliberation, and being urged by the Answerer to a speedy resolution, I gave my answer to them in the Consistory, in the end of the same week. But desiring, & obtaining secret conference with the Answerer, I acquainted him, in as inoffensive manner as I could, with my still continuing unsatisfiedness, about the lawfulness of that conformity which was expected, praying him to help me with his advise, that my desistance might be so ordered as might best conduce to the preventing of all disturbance, and offence. He refused to give advice, saying he might do nothing, of himself, in that matter. To omit other passages, seeing the Elders, and Deacons were now come together, we agreed to speak with them in the Consistory. As for his proceeding to hasten my calling, without delay, upon my supposed consent; the examining of the former Sections, hath sufficiently given light to the intelligent Reader, for the discovery of the vanity of this overture.

THe title of this Section supposeth. 1. that I had consented, 2. that afterwards J with drew my consent: the untruth of both which assertions hath bene shewen in the foregoing Sections. Here, he speaketh of matters that passed betweene us the next Consistory, after this meeting of the Classis. The story whereof was thus. A wrighting, wherein the agreement of the Answerer with the officers of the Church about my calling, was delivered to me by the Answerer, & Mr. A, which whē I had read, I first gave them thanckes for this expression of their good esteeme of me, and then, to omit other passages, desired to be certifyed, whether the order was made in the Consistory which was promised. Whereby it appeareth that I still expected that an order should be made, more to my content then yet it had bene. For answer hereunto, the Answerer told me, that they could doe no more in that buisenes, then had bene done formerly When I heard this, & perceived, by a clause in that wrighting, that, in accepting this call, I should bind my selfe to conforme to ⟨p. 188⟩the orders and customs of the Dutch Church in this particular, as well as in others, I made some demurr indeed, and desired time for deliberation, and being urged by the Answerer to a speedy resolution, I gave my answer to them in the Consistory, in the end of the same weeke. But desiring, & obtayning secret conference with the Answerer, I acquainted him, in as inoffencive manner as I could, with my still continuing unsatisfyednes, about the lawfullnes of that conformity which was expected, praying him to helpe me with his advise, that my desistance might be so ordered as might best conduce to the preventing of all disturbance, and offence. He refused to give advice, saying he might doe nothing, of himselfe, in that matter. To omitt other passages, seing the Elders, and Deacons were now come together, we agreed to speake with them in the Consistory. As for his proceeding to hasten my calling, without delay, upon my supposed consent; the examining of the former Sections, hath sufficiently given light to the intelligent Reader, for the discovery of the vanity of this overture.

But if any man think I made too strict an interpretation of the words in that writing, which the Answerer calleth a form of calling (because, upon the reading of it; I made some demur, desiring time of deliberation) let him know that, if I had accepted the calling delivered to me in that form, I had actually bound my self to conform to that unwarrantable custom. Nor is this my opinion alone, but the judgment of the Answerer, and (as he saith) of the Classis also, which will appear by his own words hereafter to be examined,¹ wherein, to prove that M.B. was not of the same opinion with me, he produceth these words out of the form of his calling, which was sent to him in writing. For (saith he) being called to administer the word and dependences thereof, according to the order of these Reformed Churches, and especially of those which are combined with the Classis of Amsterdam, and making no exception against this form, but resting therein, after this question had been propounded unto him, this is taken for an evidence that he was willing to observe their order in the administration of Baptism. TO SUCH AS THEY USE TO DO, and so it was understood by the Classis.

But if any man thinck I made too strict an interpretation of the words in that wrighting, which the Answerer calleth a forme of calling (because, upon the reading of it; I made some demurr, desiring time of deliberation) let him know that, if I had accepted the calling delivered to me in that forme, I had actually bound my selfe to conforme to that unwarrantable custom. Nor is this my opinion alone, but the judgment of the Answerer, and (as he sayth) of the Classis also, which will appeare by his owne words hereafter to be examined,¹ wherein, to prove that M.B. was not of the same opinion with me, he produceth these words out of the forme of his calling, which was sent to him in wrighting. For (sayth he) being called to administer the word and dependances thereof, according to the •rder of these Reformed Churches, and especially of those which are combined with the Classis of Amsterdam, and making no exception against this forme, but resting therein, after this question had bene propounded unto him, this is taken for an evidence that he was willing to observe their order in the administration of Baptisme. TO SƲCH AS THEY ƲSE TO DOE, and so it was understood by the Classis.

The answer to the 18. Section examined, concerning another Act of accommodation for my satisfaction.

The Answerer beginneth this Section with a misreport of my withdrawing my consent, which, he saith, I had formerly given, whereas the truth is, that, from first to last, I was of the same judgment against this unwarrantable custom, and so expressed my self, without any alteration.

THe Answerer beginneth this Section with a misreport of my withdrawing my consent, which, he sayth, I had formerly given, whereas the truth is, that, from first to last, I was of the same judgment against this unwarrantable custom, and so expressed my selfe, without any alteration.

The passages in the Consistory, the 11. of Feb. 1634. the Answerer reporteth some what disorderly, in that he beginneth with that which was last, and maketh the testification of the Elders to follow that Act, which went before it, whereby the right understanding of things is hindered. For, after that private discourse, before mentioned, had passed between him and me, and after some other speeches in the Consistory, and ⟨p. 190⟩after I had walked forth, at their entreaty, a great while, that they might privately consult, being called in again to hear the issue, whereunto matters were brought, I found that the order, spoken of in the 13. Section, was again renewed and enlarged, with this addition, that the Elders and Deacons likewise promised to send such to me as should come to them. Which was as much as just nothing. For, the same objections which were made against the same offer made on the behalf of the Answerer and of the Coster, in the 13. Section, are of force against this also.

The passages in the Consistory, the 11. of Feb. 1634. the Answerer reporteth some what disorderly, in that he beginneth with that which was last, and maketh the testification of the Elders to follow that Act, which went before it, whereby the right understanding of things is hindred. For, after that private discourse, before mentioned, had passed betweene him and me, and after some other speeches in the Consistory, and ⟨p. 190⟩after I had walked forth, at their intreaty, a great while, that they might privately consult, being called in againe to heare the issue, whereunto matters were brought, I found that the order, spoken of in the 13. Section, was againe renewed and inlarged, with this addition, that the Elders and Deacons likewise promised to send such to me as should come to them. Which was as much as just nothing. For, the same objections which were made against the same offer made on the behalfe of the Answerer and of the Coster, in the 13. Section, are of force against this also.

Whereas he addeth, that, both he, and they promised to prevent all further occasion of offence, so much as in them lay, had this been done accordingly, the Elders might well have added, in way of testification, their persuasion, that no occasion would befall to work any scruple unto me in that which I feared. For, then the order which I desired, had been made to prevent further occasion of offence, seeing that lay in their power to do, if the Answerer would have joined with the Elders lovingly and freely therein, and no other course could help me, as the case now stood, which the Answerer knew, though the Elders and Deacons did not, all of them, see so far into it. Now, seeing this lay in them to do, and yet they did it not, neither would the Answerer suffer it to be done, how was this promise performed of doing what lay in them?

Whereas he addeth, that, both he, and they promised to prevent all further occasion of offence, so much as in them lay, had this bene done accordingly, the Elders might well have added, in way of testification, their persuasion, that no occasion would befall to worke any scruple unto me in that which I feared. For, then the order which I desired, had bene made to prevent further occasion of offence, seing that lay in their power to doe, if the Answerer would have joyned with the Elders lovingly and freely therein, and no other course could helpe me, as the case now stood, which the Answerer knew, though the Elders and Deacons did not, all of them, see so farr into it. Now, seing this lay in them to doe, and yet they did it not, neither would the Answerer suffer it to be done, how was this promise performed of doing what lay in them?

When I had spoken somewhat, to show the insufficiency of this order to secure me: they again prayed me to walk forth, and, after a shorter absence then before, they sent for me to return to them, to hear what was added for perfecting that order, which they wrote down, in these words. And further we purpose if any should at unawares, bring such children, whose parents are not members, we shall desire and counsel them by the Coster (without absolute denial) to bring their children the next exercise following, that, in the mean time, there may be conveniency of examination.

When I had spoken somewhat, to shew the insufficiency of this order to secure me: they againe prayed me to walke forth, and, after a shorter absence then before, they sent for me to returne to them, to heare what was added for perfecting that order, which they wrote downe, in these words. And further we purpose if any should at unawares, bring such children, whose parents are not members, we shall desire and counsaile them by the Coster (without absolute denyall) to bring their children the next excercise following, that, in the meane time, there may be conveniency of examination.

Upon which Additional I will note some observations. 1. That the Elders and Deacons, did, in effect, revoke that testification, which was last spoken of. For, by their adding of this ⟨p. 191⟩to what was then done, it appeared that themselves saw that the former order was not sufficient to safeguard me from the thing that I feared. 2. That this Additional is only a declaration of their purpose, but hath not the force of an order, 3. That, considering that they purposed only to signify so much privately to those persons who should at anytime so come (and not to have it published, that the whole Church might take knowledge of it) and that by the Coster, a mean man, whom they, to whom he should speak, would easily slight, and his commission was only to desire and counsel them, which they would easily reject, and ask him, what he had to do to counsel them to defer the baptising of their children, In this case, what could he answer but this, J do only desire and counsel you, but I may not absolutely deny you? And, how can such a course secure me?

Vpon which Additionall I will noate some observations. 1. That the Elders and Deacons, did, in effect, revoke that testification, which was last spoken of. For, by their adding of this ⟨p. 191⟩to what was then done, it appeared that themselves saw that the former order was not sufficient to safeguard me from the thing that I feared. 2. That this Additionall is onely a declaration of their purpose, but hath not the force of an order, 3. That, considering that they purposed onely to signifye so much privately to those persons who should at anytime so come (and not to have it published, that the wholl Church might take knowledge of it) and that by the Coster, a meane man, whom they, to whom he should speake, would easily slight, and his commission was only to desire and counsaile them, which they would easily reject, and aske him, what he had to doe to counsaile them to deferr the baptising of their children, In this case, what could he answer but this, J doe onely desire and counsail you, but I may not absolutely deny you? And, how can such a course secure me?

Here again the Answerer misreporteth my answer: for he affirmeth, that this would not content me, unless there might have been an absolute denial of Baptism, in such a case, if entreaty would not serve. But I made no such Answer, neither is any such answer recorded in the Acts of that Consistory, which I have purposely examined. All that I stood upon, was, that a firm order might be made in the Consistory to secure me from future trouble, about that matter. But this the Answerer would not permit to be done, though it might have been done, without any offence to the Classis, and with much content to the Church. So that I have just cause to complain of his want of brotherly moderation, in this point, what soever he seemed to yield, which, he knew, was not sufficient to prevent the thing which I feared.

Here againe the Answerer misreporteth my answer: for he affirmeth, that this would not content me, unlesse there might have benean absolute denyall of Baptisme, in such a case, if intreaty would not serve. But I made no such Answer, neither is any such answer recorded in the Acts of that Consistory, which I have purposely examined. All that I stoode upon, was, that a firme order might be made in the Consistory to secure me from future trouble, about that matter. But this the Answerer would not permit to be done, though it might have bene done, without any offence to the Classis, and with much content to the Church. So that I have just cause to complaine of his want of brotherly moderation, in this point, what soever he seemed to yeeld, which, he knew, was not sufficient to prevent the thing which I feared.

The following passage is an unjust reproach, which I will pass by, having answered to the substance of it formerly. How unlawful that practise is, and how necessary it was that I should witness against, it doth appear in my Reply to his twelfth Section.

The following passage is an unjust reproach, which I will passe by, having answered to the substance of it formerly. How unlawfull that practise is, and how necessary it was that I should witnesse against, it doth appeare in my Reply to his twelfth Section.

In Conclusion. when the Elders prayed me to defer my answer to another time, the Answerer told me, that, when I should give mine answer, if I did accept of this calling, I must promise ⟨p. 192⟩to rest in, that is, to conform to, the writing of the five Ministers. Whereby it appeareth, that, not withstanding all these pretences of accommodation, conformity to that writing, which bound me to this disorder of promiscuous baptizing, was, first and last, the condition, whereupon my calling to that ministry, must stand or fall, and that the Answerer would have it so. Thus that day passed.

In Conclusion. when the Elders prayed me to deferr my answer to another time, the Answerer told me, that, when I should give myne answer, if I did accept of this calling, I must promise ⟨p. 192⟩to rest in, that is, to conforme to, the wrighting of the five Ministers. Whereby it appeareth, that, not withstanding all these pretences of accommodation, conformity to that wrighting, which bound me to this disorder of promiscuous baptizing, was, first and last, the condition, whereupon my calling to that ministry, must stand or fall, and that the Answerer would have it so. Thus that day passed.

Now, though I had just cause of offence at these passages, yet, that it might appear how much I was for peace and brotherly concord, the next day of their meeting, being the 15 of Feb. I came into the Consistory to give my answer, which was, that, if a promise must be made by me to conform to the judgment of those Ministers set down as an order for me to rest in, I could not do it, because the promise of doing any thing is a Confession that the thing is lawful to be done, which I do not believe to be so, in this case, yet, because I much prized their loves and tendered their peace (as I truly told them) I was willing; if they desired it, to go on in assisting the Answerer, as I formerly had done, for a convenient time, to see, if, in the interim, by a friendly acquainting my self with the Dutch Ministers, I might be satisfied about the lawfulness of this custom, whereunto my conformity was required, or procure that this question might be laid down, & might understand what those other orders & customs of the Dutch Church are which I must observe, & more fully know the members & state of the English Church, wherewith I should join. In which motion I intended no intrusion (which I have always abhorred, and was very far from, in that place) but only the peace and good of the Church. This the Elders apprehended to be very reasonable, & desired that it might take effect, but the Answerer was otherwise minded, as it is, in express words, by the Elders recorded in the Acts of that Consistory.

Now, though I had just cause of offence at these passages, yet, that it might appeare how much I was for peace and brotherly concord, the next day of their meeting, being the 15 of Feb. I came into the Consistory to give my answer, which was, that, if a promise must be made by me to conforme to the judgment of those Ministers set downe as an order for me to rest in, I could not doe it, because the promise of doing any thing is a Confessiō that the thing is lawfull to be done, which I doe not beleive to be so, in this case, yet, because I much prized their loves and tendred their peace (as I truely told them) I was willing; if they desired it, to goe on in assisting the Answerer, as I formerly had done, for a convenient time, to see, if, in the interim, by a freindly acquainting my selfe with the Dutch Ministers, I might be satisfyed about the lawfullnes of this custom, whereunto my conformity was required, or procure that this questiō might be layd downe, & might understand what those other orders & customs of the Dutch Church are which I must observe, & more fully know the mēbers & state of the English Church, wherwith I should joyne. In which motion I intended no intrusion (which I have alwayes abhorred, and was very farr from, in that place) but onely the peace and good of the Church. This the Elders apprehended to be very reasonable, & desired that it might take effect, but the Answerer was otherwise minded, as it is, in expresse words, by the Elders recorded in the Acts of that Consistory.

His Answer to the 19. Section examined containing certain Acts of the Classis after that my dissent and refusal of the call was known.

His Answer to the 19. Section examined containing certaine Acts of the Classis after that my dissent and refusall of the call was knowne.

IN this Section we have the story of passages concerning this business, in three Classes, and with the Magistrates. But, before I examine them, it may be demanded, why this matter was brought into the Classis, seeing I had in the Consistory declared my not accepting the call, which was offered me, upon those terms? was it because the Consistory had not power to give me a convenient time for informing my self concerning the orders & customs of the Dutch Church, by consent amongst themselves, without seeking to the Classis? But I come to the particulars.

IN this Section we have the story of passages concerning this buisenes, in three Classes, and with the Magistrates. But, before I examine them, it may be demanded, why this matter was brought into the Classis, seing I had in the Consistory declared my not accepting the call, which was offered me, upon those termes? was it because the Consistory had not power to give me a convenient time for informing my selfe concerning the orders & customs of the Dutch Church, by consent amongst themselves, without seeking to the Classis? But I come to the particulars.