Filter authors and titles

A26865:682

An apology for the nonconformists ministry containing I. the reasons of their preaching, II.…

Name: An apology for the nonconformists ministry containing I. the reasons of their preaching, II.…
Author: Richard Baxter

An apology for the nonconformists ministry containing I. the reasons of their preaching, II. an answer to the accusations urged as reasons for the silencing of about 2000 by Bishop Morley ..., III. reasons proving it the duty and interest of the bishops and conformists to endeavour earnestly their restoration : with a postscript upon oral debates with Mr. H. Dodwell, against his reasons for their silence ... : written in 1668 and 1669, for the most of it, and now published as an addition to the defence against Dr. Stillingfleet, and as an account to the silencers of the reasons of our practice / by Richard Baxter.

:679p. 194–195

6. It is a most certain thing that your method will not attain the Churches Edification, Unity or Concord, but is the directest way to subvert all these: No nor your own establishment, or honour ⟨p. 195⟩in the world, if that be it which you mean still, by the Interest of the Church. And why should any men use a means that will subvert, and will never attain his ends? Did you know this, you would never choose or use it. But I perceive you do not, and for ought I see you will not know it. I shall give you those reasons that should make you know it, if you have but the understanding of ordinary men; supposing what is distinctly said in the Propositions.

6. It is a most certain thing that your method will not attain the Churches Edification, Unity or Concord, but is the directest way to subvert all these: No nor your own establishment, or honour ⟨p. 195⟩in the world, if that be it which you mean still, by the Interest of the Church. And why should any men use a means that will subvert, and will never attain his ends? Did you know this, you would never chuse or use it. But I perceive you do not, and for ought I see you will not know it. I shall give you those reasons that should make you know it, if you have but the understanding of ordinary men; supposing what is distinctly said in the Propositions.

:680p. 195

Every wise man in the use of means, will both foresee the probable effect, and fore resolve how far to carry them on. Either you think that your silencing, and other hard usages of the Ministers, shall convince and change them, or disable and destroy them. The former I have showed you is a most vain surmise: For, 1. Kindness is more forcible to change the judgment; than violence and hard usage. This useth oftener to set men in opposition to what a hurtful adversary reasoneth for. It is seldom that an enemies words convert. Opposition rather kindleth an opposing zeal.

Every wise man in the use of means, will both foresee the probable effect, and fore resolve how far to carry them on. Either you think that your silencing, and other hard usages of the Ministers, shall convince and change them, or disable and destroy them. The former I have shewed you is a most vain surmise: For, 1. Kindness is more forcible to change the judgment; than violence and hard usage. This useth oftener to set men in opposition to what a hurtful adversary reasoneth for. It is seldom that an enemies words convert. Opposition rather kindleth an opposing zeal.

:681p. 195

2. You may partly conjecture by your selves. If you thought it were Lying, Perjury and false Worship which was imposed on you, would you change your judgment, by threatenings or by punishments? There is nothing in force to illuminate the mind. If you say, It will tame their obstinacy, and make them hearken more to reason, I answer as before: It most powerfully exciteth those prejudices and passions, which hinder reason, though it may promote hypocrisy in some.

2. You may partly conjecture by your selves. If you thought it were Lying, Perjury and false Worship which was imposed on you, would you change your judgment, by threatnings or by punishments? There is nothing in force to illuminate the mind. If you say, It will tame their obstinacy, and make them hearken more to reason, I answer as before: It most powerfully exciteth those prejudices and passions, which hinder reason, though it may promote hypocrisie in some.

:682p. 195

3. And experience telleth you and all the world, that you are mistaken: We read the same books out of a prison, as in it (if there we may have them): And what abundance of Ministers▪ within these ten years, have come out of long imprisonment in the same mind as they went in (yea much confirmed). But who can you name that came out convinced that his way was wrong? How long have they suffered, not only poverty and reproach, but that silencing which they account a greater evil? And yet how few are changed by all this (For the Novel-Politicians talk of a hundred men that continue to displease you, is but a means to tell the world, how exactly your Actions and Historical Narratives agree, and what posterity must expect from the later, as well as we from the former).

:683p. 195–196

4. But if 9 or 10 years experience be too little for you, look back to the experience of all the world. Your Bishop Taylor, and ⟨p. 196⟩many of your own, can tell you, how opposition inflameth the opposed party into a greater zeal.

:684p. 196

5. In a word, I know not only my self, but so many of the Nonconformable Ministers of England, that I utterly despair that even silencing or imprisonment should change their judgments.

:685p. 196

2. The next question then is, Whether it will make them hypocrites, and force them to go against their judgments? And this I am as confident it will never do with the most: 1. Because I know so many of them to be truer to God and to their Consciences. 2. Because experience also long evinced this. 3. And so hath the experience of former ages, in such as they: some have still shrunk in a time of suffering: But enow have suffered to fill up such Volumes as Mr. Fox's, and the Century-Writers, and many others. 4. And here also I ask, Would you do so your selves? Would you do that which you think to be Lying, Perjury, renouncing Reformation, &c. against your consciences, rather than suffer? or would you not? If yea, you tell the world what your Religion is? If not, judge by your own course, both now and formerly, whether they or you be liker to choose sin before suffering. I know not you so well as them; and therefore know not what you would do, so well as I, and you, and all the world may know what they will do. 5. And if they were such Villains, as to sell their Souls for the safety of their flesh, why should not the same principle now prevail with them, to stretch their conscience by some distinction, and take Livings and Honour among you with Conformity, instead of a hunted and afflicted state of life? If Satan shall say, Skin for skin, and all that he hath will a man give for his life: Let me touch his body, and I will make him curse thee to thy face; whereas now he serveth not God for nought. Yet God would support and vindicate the integrity of Job; and though he may fall into some impatience, he would not yet forsake his Master, nor leave his integrity to the death.

2. The next question then is, Whether it will make them hypocrites, and force them to go against their judgments? And this I am as confident it will never do with the most: 1. Because I know so many of them to be truer to God and to their Consciences. 2. Because experience also long evinced this. 3. And so hath the experience of former ages, in such as they: some have still shrunk in a time of suffering: But enow have suffered to fill up such Volumes as Mr. Fox's, and the Century-Writers, and many others. 4. And here also I ask, Would you do so your selves? Would you do that which you think to be Lying, Perjury, renouncing Reformation, &c. against your consciences, rather than suffer? or would you not? If yea, you tell the world what your Religion is? If not, judge by your own course, both now and formerly, whether they or you be liker to chuse sin before suffering. I know not you so well as them; and therefore know not what you would do, so well as I, and you, and all the world may know what they will do. 5. And if they were such Villains, as to sell their Souls for the safety of their flesh, why should not the same principle now prevail with them, to stretch their conscience by some distinction, and take Livings and Honour among you with Conformity, instead of a hunted and afflicted state of life? If Satan shall say, Skin for skin, and all that he hath will a man give for his life: Let me touch his body, and I will make him curse thee to thy face; whereas now he serveth not God for nought. Yet God would support and vindicate the integrity of Job; and though he may fall into some impatiency, he would not yet forsake his Master, nor leave his integrity to the death.

:686p. 196

3. The last question therefore is, Whether their destruction will do your work, or not, seeing neither their change of judgment, nor for saking their consciences, is to be expected by your means?

:687p. 196–197

I find that the Novel-Politician is confident of it, that sharp execution is the way, and would easily do it: And so are most that write against us, as well as Bishop Gunnings Chaplain. But, 1. He speaketh but like one of Rehoboams puny Councillors; contrary to all the experience of the world. I hope God will give his Majesty wisdom to avoid such counsels, that would have him make his little ⟨p. 197⟩finger heavier than Solomons loins. I confess if the work be to extirpate Christianity it self, they that will and can follow it to the height of the example of Japan, might imagine a possibility of the like success. But it cannot be done so in England, if there were any that would do it: Because the body of the Nation is of the same Religion, as the Japonions were against. Or if the work were to suppress the Protestant Religion, the Inquisition in Spain would be a probable means, where there are but very few to be tormented, and the thing may be done secretly in vaults, out of the peoples sight and noise. But for Protestants to destroy each other, yea such and so many as must be so destroyed, and this for the advancement of the Protestant interest, is a course that will not do that work for which it is pretended.

I find that the Novel-Politician is confident of it, that sharp execution is the way, and would easily do it: And so are most that write against us, as well as Bishop Gunnings Chaplain. But, 1. He speaketh but like one of Rehoboams puny Councellors; contrary to all the experience of the world. I hope God will give his Majesty wisdom to avoid such counsels, that would have him make his little ⟨p. 197⟩finger heavier than Solomons loyns. I confess if the work be to extirpate Christianity it self, they that will and can follow it to the height of the example of Japon, might imagine a possibility of the like success. But it cannot be done so in England, if there were any that would do it: Because the body of the Nation is of the same Religion, as the Japonions were against. Or if the work were to suppress the Protestant Religion, the Inquisition in Spain would be a probable means, where there are but very few to be tormented, and the thing may be done secretly in vaults, out of the peoples sight and noise. But for Protestants to destroy each other, yea such and so many as must be so destroyed, and this for the advancement of the Protestant interest, is a course that will not do that work for which it is pretended.

:688p. 197–199

For, 1. Blood was never yet of light digestion: Nebuchadnezzars furnace devoured the Executioners; and so did Daniel's Lyons too. God hath ever showed himself a God of Love, and an enemy to the enemies of it. Many are the afflictions of the righteous; but God hath many ways to deliver them out of all. As I said already, who would have thought that enow should have escaped Queen Mary's Bonfires to have planted a Protestant Church so soon? Or so many escaped the French Massacre, as so soon to have made that fact repented of, and ring to the Odium of the Actors through the world; Yea that so many should survive the Two hundred thousand murdered in Ireland, as to see so terrible a revenge: Yea that the far greater Murders of the poor Waldenses and Albigenses should be followed with a resurrection of the witnesses of the truth, with double advantage; and leave the everlasting odium of bloody cruelties upon Rome; and that the German-sufferings should so soon be revenged by the Swedes? Or that the desolations, which for the Interim were made among the German Ministers, should so soon be repaired? Or that the Prelacy which Constantius, and other Arian Emperors set up, should so soon be changed, and the Arian cruelties recorded to their perpetual shame? And that the Vandals in Africa should but murder Ministers enow to kill themselves with the stroke: Or that the true Persecutions of the Heathen Emperors should but increase the Church of Christ, and the blood of Martyrs should be its seed? Or that fewer Nonconformist Ministers than there be Counties in England in 1640, should multiply into that number as they did within two or three years? Or that the Diocesan-Ministers, supperest ⟨p. 199⟩by Cromwell, should revive to the strength that they were in, within three years after his death? Men may contrive, but God will dispose: Caiaphas may think that one should dye for the people, rather than all the Nation perish; and the fact may prove their speedy and most dreadful ruin.

For, 1. Blood was never yet of light digestion: Nebuchadnezzars furnace devoured the Executioners; and so did Daniel's Lyons too. God hath ever shewed himself a God of Love, and an enemy to the enemies of it. Many are the afflictions of the righteous; but God hath many ways to deliver them out of all. As I said already, who would have thought that enow should have escaped Queen Maries Bonefires to have planted a Protestant Church so soon? Or so many escaped the French Massacre, as so soon to have made that fact repented of, and ring to the Odium of the Actors through the world; Yea that so many should survive the Two hundred thousand murdered in Ireland, as to see so terrible a revenge: Yea that the far greater Murders of the poor Waldenses and Albigenses should be followed with a resurrection of the witnesses of the truth, with double advantage; and leave the everlasting odium of bloody cruelties upon Rome; and that the German-sufferings should so soon be revenged by the Swedes? Or that the desolations, which for the Interim were made among the German Ministers, should so soon be repaired? Or that the Prelacy which Constantius, and other Arrian Emperors set up, should so soon be changed, and the Arrian cruelties recorded to their perpetual shame? And that the Vandals in Africa should but murder Ministers enow to kill themselves with the stroke: Or that the true Persecutions of the Heathen Emperors should but increase the Church of Christ, and the blood of Martyrs should be its seed? Or that fewer Nonconformist Ministers than there be Counties in England in 1640, should multiply into that number as they did within two or three years? Or that the Diocesan-Ministers, supprest

:689p. 199

2. And as blood crieth loud to God for revenge, so it usually maketh the actors so odious in the world, that men will hardly leave it unrevenged. There is no hope that ever you should be able to extirpate both grace and good nature out of the world. There will be some sparks of love and humanity in the minds of men, when interest quencheth them not, when you have done all. And these sparks of charity and humanity will make all the actors of cruelty odious; and the people will take them for Bears and Wolves. Yea, if you were able to persuade others by your words and books, as you do your selves by your interest and passions, that we are as very fools, and disobedient to your Lordships, as you describe us, yet most men, and especially English men, will pity the suffering side, and will think with heart-rising on the men of blood. When the Puritans suffered, the people pitied them, and cried out against the Prelates. When the Diocesan party suffered, the people pitied them, and cried out against Cromwell and those that cast them out. And now they are turning about again (tho' I know there are many more cases do concur).

2. And as blood cryeth loud to God for revenge, so it usually maketh the actors so odious in the world, that men will hardly leave it unrevenged. There is no hope that ever you should be able to extirpate both grace and good nature out of the world. There will be some sparks of love and humanity in the minds of men, when interest quencheth them not, when you have done all. And these sparks of charity and humanity will make all the actors of cruelty odious; and the people will take them for Bears and Wolves. Yea, if you were able to perswade others by your words and books, as you do your selves by your interest and passions, that we are as very fools, and disobedient to your Lordships, as you describe us, yet most men, and especially English men, will pity the suffering side, and will think with heart-rising on the men of blood. When the Puritans suffered, the people pitied them, and cryed out against the Prelates. When the Diocesan party suffered, the people pitied them, and cryed out against Cromwel and those that cast them out. And now they are turning about again (tho' I know there are many more cases do concur).

:690p. 199

3. And God having resolved that the memory of the just shall be blessed, and that the name of the wicked shall •ot, and that the greatest of the ungodly shall not be the Master of Fame, nor any more able to leave an odium on the name of the just, than to pursue their souls with malice into heaven; no, nor so much as to preserve their own names from odium, any more than to keep their bodies from corruption. It hence comes to pass, that the very odour and perfume of sufferers names that endure the wrath of man for the sake of God and conscience, doth so invite posterity to their mind and way, that multitudes quickly rise up in their steads. And the loathed names of the persecutors of the godly, doth make posterity shun their courses. What a stink hath the name of David Seton in Scotland, of Bonner of London, and Gardiner Bishop of Winchester, left behind? The like I may say of all such men.

3. And God having resolved that the memory of the just shall be blessed, and that the name of the wicked shall •ot, and that the greatest of the ungodly shall not be the Master of Fame, nor any more able to leave an odium on the name of the just, than to pursue their souls with malice into heaven; no, nor so much as to preserve their own names from odium, any more than to keep their bodies from corruption. It hence comes to pass, that the very odor and perfume of sufferers names that endure the wrath of man for the sake of God and conscience, doth so invite posterity to their mind and way, that multitudes quickly rise up in their steads. And the loathed names of the persecutors of the godly, doth make posterity shun their courses. What a stink hath the name of David Seton in Scotland, of Bonner of London, and Gardiner Bishop of Winchester, left behind? The like I may say of all such men.

:691p. 199–198

4 Moreover the same reasons that prevail with us, will prevail with others when we are dead. They will be as fearful of lying, ⟨p. 198⟩and perjury, and of swearing Allegiance to Church-usurpers, as we have been. There will still be a people seriously religious, that are Christians in good sadness, and really believe a life to come. There is no hindering it; God will have it so, and who can gainsay him? And these men will be as loth under pretence of order and decency to have Religion dwindle into a lifeless form of words and ceremonies, and to take the chaff and straw for the corn, as ever we have been before them. And the History of our sufferings will but animate them.

:692p. 198

5. Besides this, 1. While you are doing your work, you are dying; you are (alas! that's the cut-throat of your comforts) but mortal men your selves; Bonner is dead, and Gardiner is dead; Guise is dead, and D' Alva is dead. King Edward's Reformation, and Q. Mary's Persecution were both cut short by the shortness of their lives. When you have destroyed ten, or twenty, or an hundred Ministers, and are resolving, Thus we will use them all; A Fever, or an Apoplexy, or some other Messenger of an offended God, doth stop you in your course, and call you to judgment, and tell you that when it is too late, which you could not hear from such as we. Cum tamen a figulis munitam intraverit urbem. Sarcophago contentus erit: Mors sola fatetur, Quantula sint hominum Corpuscula—.

5. Besides this, 1. While you are doing your work, you are dying; you are (alas! that's the cut-throat of your comforts) but mortal men your selves; Bonner is dead, and Gardiner is dead; Guise is dead, and D' Alva is dead. King Edward's Reformation, and Q. Maries Persecution were both cut short by the shortness of their lives. When you have destroyed ten, or twenty, or an hundred Ministers, and are resolving, Thus we will use them all; A Fever, or an Apoplexy, or some other Messenger of an offended God, doth stop you in your course, and call you to judgment, and tell you that when it is too late, which you could not hear from such as we. Cum tamen a figulis munitam intraverit urbem. Sarcophago contentus erit: Mors sola fatetur, Quantula sint hominum Corpuscula—.

:693p. 198

Nature will not suffer you long; and Justice oft anticipateth the time of Nature. The strange Histories of Gods Judgments are not all fables. Nullane perjury capitis, fraudisque nefandae Poena erit? Juv.

Nature will not suffer you long; and Justice oft anticipateth the time of Nature. The strange Histories of Gods Judgments are not all fables. Nullane perjuri capitis, fraudisque nefandae Poena erit? Juv.

:694p. 198–200

6. And sometimes God stoppeth a Saul in his way with greater mercy. And sometimes crosses make men melancholy, and retire from their cruel course. Can you think of two such instance; as Diocletian and Charles the fifth, without admiration? And oft-times an accusing-conscience beginneth such a hell on earth, as interrupteth the execution of malicious purposes. And sometimes the very odium of the people turneth them off with shame; both which the same Poet intimateth, Sat. 13.⟨p. 200⟩ Exemplo quodcunque malo committitur, ipsi Displicet auctori, Prima est haec ultio, quod se Judice, nemo nocens absolvitur, improbae quamvis. Gratia fallacis Praetoris vicerit urnam. Quid sentire putas omnes Calvine, recenti De scelere, & fidei violatae crimine.

6. And sometimes God stoppeth a Saul in his way with greater mercy. And sometimes crosses make men melancholy, and retire from their cruel course. Can you think of two such instance; as Dioclesian and Charles the fifth, without admiration? And oft-times an accusing-conscience beginneth such a hell on earth, as interrupteth the execution of malicious purposes. And sometimes the very odium of the people turneth them off with shame; both which the same Poet intimateth, Sat. 13.⟨p. 200⟩ Exemplo quodcunque malo committitur, ipsi Displicet auctori, Prima est haec ultio, quod se Judice, nemo nocens absolvitur, improbae quamvis. Gratia fallacis Praetoris vicerit urnam. Quid sentire putas omnes Calvine, recenti De scelere, & fidei violatae crimine.

Reformers309

Puritans1,782

Westminster Assembly24

Evangelicals36