Filter authors and titles

A26865:689

An apology for the nonconformists ministry containing I. the reasons of their preaching, II.…

Name: An apology for the nonconformists ministry containing I. the reasons of their preaching, II.…
Author: Richard Baxter

An apology for the nonconformists ministry containing I. the reasons of their preaching, II. an answer to the accusations urged as reasons for the silencing of about 2000 by Bishop Morley ..., III. reasons proving it the duty and interest of the bishops and conformists to endeavour earnestly their restoration : with a postscript upon oral debates with Mr. H. Dodwell, against his reasons for their silence ... : written in 1668 and 1669, for the most of it, and now published as an addition to the defence against Dr. Stillingfleet, and as an account to the silencers of the reasons of our practice / by Richard Baxter.

:686p. 196

3. The last question therefore is, Whether their destruction will do your work, or not, seeing neither their change of judgment, nor for saking their consciences, is to be expected by your means?

:687p. 196–197

I find that the Novel-Politician is confident of it, that sharp execution is the way, and would easily do it: And so are most that write against us, as well as Bishop Gunnings Chaplain. But, 1. He speaketh but like one of Rehoboams puny Councillors; contrary to all the experience of the world. I hope God will give his Majesty wisdom to avoid such counsels, that would have him make his little ⟨p. 197⟩finger heavier than Solomons loins. I confess if the work be to extirpate Christianity it self, they that will and can follow it to the height of the example of Japan, might imagine a possibility of the like success. But it cannot be done so in England, if there were any that would do it: Because the body of the Nation is of the same Religion, as the Japonions were against. Or if the work were to suppress the Protestant Religion, the Inquisition in Spain would be a probable means, where there are but very few to be tormented, and the thing may be done secretly in vaults, out of the peoples sight and noise. But for Protestants to destroy each other, yea such and so many as must be so destroyed, and this for the advancement of the Protestant interest, is a course that will not do that work for which it is pretended.

I find that the Novel-Politician is confident of it, that sharp execution is the way, and would easily do it: And so are most that write against us, as well as Bishop Gunnings Chaplain. But, 1. He speaketh but like one of Rehoboams puny Councellors; contrary to all the experience of the world. I hope God will give his Majesty wisdom to avoid such counsels, that would have him make his little ⟨p. 197⟩finger heavier than Solomons loyns. I confess if the work be to extirpate Christianity it self, they that will and can follow it to the height of the example of Japon, might imagine a possibility of the like success. But it cannot be done so in England, if there were any that would do it: Because the body of the Nation is of the same Religion, as the Japonions were against. Or if the work were to suppress the Protestant Religion, the Inquisition in Spain would be a probable means, where there are but very few to be tormented, and the thing may be done secretly in vaults, out of the peoples sight and noise. But for Protestants to destroy each other, yea such and so many as must be so destroyed, and this for the advancement of the Protestant interest, is a course that will not do that work for which it is pretended.

:688p. 197–199

For, 1. Blood was never yet of light digestion: Nebuchadnezzars furnace devoured the Executioners; and so did Daniel's Lyons too. God hath ever showed himself a God of Love, and an enemy to the enemies of it. Many are the afflictions of the righteous; but God hath many ways to deliver them out of all. As I said already, who would have thought that enow should have escaped Queen Mary's Bonfires to have planted a Protestant Church so soon? Or so many escaped the French Massacre, as so soon to have made that fact repented of, and ring to the Odium of the Actors through the world; Yea that so many should survive the Two hundred thousand murdered in Ireland, as to see so terrible a revenge: Yea that the far greater Murders of the poor Waldenses and Albigenses should be followed with a resurrection of the witnesses of the truth, with double advantage; and leave the everlasting odium of bloody cruelties upon Rome; and that the German-sufferings should so soon be revenged by the Swedes? Or that the desolations, which for the Interim were made among the German Ministers, should so soon be repaired? Or that the Prelacy which Constantius, and other Arian Emperors set up, should so soon be changed, and the Arian cruelties recorded to their perpetual shame? And that the Vandals in Africa should but murder Ministers enow to kill themselves with the stroke: Or that the true Persecutions of the Heathen Emperors should but increase the Church of Christ, and the blood of Martyrs should be its seed? Or that fewer Nonconformist Ministers than there be Counties in England in 1640, should multiply into that number as they did within two or three years? Or that the Diocesan-Ministers, supperest ⟨p. 199⟩by Cromwell, should revive to the strength that they were in, within three years after his death? Men may contrive, but God will dispose: Caiaphas may think that one should dye for the people, rather than all the Nation perish; and the fact may prove their speedy and most dreadful ruin.

For, 1. Blood was never yet of light digestion: Nebuchadnezzars furnace devoured the Executioners; and so did Daniel's Lyons too. God hath ever shewed himself a God of Love, and an enemy to the enemies of it. Many are the afflictions of the righteous; but God hath many ways to deliver them out of all. As I said already, who would have thought that enow should have escaped Queen Maries Bonefires to have planted a Protestant Church so soon? Or so many escaped the French Massacre, as so soon to have made that fact repented of, and ring to the Odium of the Actors through the world; Yea that so many should survive the Two hundred thousand murdered in Ireland, as to see so terrible a revenge: Yea that the far greater Murders of the poor Waldenses and Albigenses should be followed with a resurrection of the witnesses of the truth, with double advantage; and leave the everlasting odium of bloody cruelties upon Rome; and that the German-sufferings should so soon be revenged by the Swedes? Or that the desolations, which for the Interim were made among the German Ministers, should so soon be repaired? Or that the Prelacy which Constantius, and other Arrian Emperors set up, should so soon be changed, and the Arrian cruelties recorded to their perpetual shame? And that the Vandals in Africa should but murder Ministers enow to kill themselves with the stroke: Or that the true Persecutions of the Heathen Emperors should but increase the Church of Christ, and the blood of Martyrs should be its seed? Or that fewer Nonconformist Ministers than there be Counties in England in 1640, should multiply into that number as they did within two or three years? Or that the Diocesan-Ministers, supprest

:689p. 199

2. And as blood crieth loud to God for revenge, so it usually maketh the actors so odious in the world, that men will hardly leave it unrevenged. There is no hope that ever you should be able to extirpate both grace and good nature out of the world. There will be some sparks of love and humanity in the minds of men, when interest quencheth them not, when you have done all. And these sparks of charity and humanity will make all the actors of cruelty odious; and the people will take them for Bears and Wolves. Yea, if you were able to persuade others by your words and books, as you do your selves by your interest and passions, that we are as very fools, and disobedient to your Lordships, as you describe us, yet most men, and especially English men, will pity the suffering side, and will think with heart-rising on the men of blood. When the Puritans suffered, the people pitied them, and cried out against the Prelates. When the Diocesan party suffered, the people pitied them, and cried out against Cromwell and those that cast them out. And now they are turning about again (tho' I know there are many more cases do concur).

2. And as blood cryeth loud to God for revenge, so it usually maketh the actors so odious in the world, that men will hardly leave it unrevenged. There is no hope that ever you should be able to extirpate both grace and good nature out of the world. There will be some sparks of love and humanity in the minds of men, when interest quencheth them not, when you have done all. And these sparks of charity and humanity will make all the actors of cruelty odious; and the people will take them for Bears and Wolves. Yea, if you were able to perswade others by your words and books, as you do your selves by your interest and passions, that we are as very fools, and disobedient to your Lordships, as you describe us, yet most men, and especially English men, will pity the suffering side, and will think with heart-rising on the men of blood. When the Puritans suffered, the people pitied them, and cryed out against the Prelates. When the Diocesan party suffered, the people pitied them, and cryed out against Cromwel and those that cast them out. And now they are turning about again (tho' I know there are many more cases do concur).

:690p. 199

3. And God having resolved that the memory of the just shall be blessed, and that the name of the wicked shall •ot, and that the greatest of the ungodly shall not be the Master of Fame, nor any more able to leave an odium on the name of the just, than to pursue their souls with malice into heaven; no, nor so much as to preserve their own names from odium, any more than to keep their bodies from corruption. It hence comes to pass, that the very odour and perfume of sufferers names that endure the wrath of man for the sake of God and conscience, doth so invite posterity to their mind and way, that multitudes quickly rise up in their steads. And the loathed names of the persecutors of the godly, doth make posterity shun their courses. What a stink hath the name of David Seton in Scotland, of Bonner of London, and Gardiner Bishop of Winchester, left behind? The like I may say of all such men.

3. And God having resolved that the memory of the just shall be blessed, and that the name of the wicked shall •ot, and that the greatest of the ungodly shall not be the Master of Fame, nor any more able to leave an odium on the name of the just, than to pursue their souls with malice into heaven; no, nor so much as to preserve their own names from odium, any more than to keep their bodies from corruption. It hence comes to pass, that the very odor and perfume of sufferers names that endure the wrath of man for the sake of God and conscience, doth so invite posterity to their mind and way, that multitudes quickly rise up in their steads. And the loathed names of the persecutors of the godly, doth make posterity shun their courses. What a stink hath the name of David Seton in Scotland, of Bonner of London, and Gardiner Bishop of Winchester, left behind? The like I may say of all such men.

:691p. 199–198

4 Moreover the same reasons that prevail with us, will prevail with others when we are dead. They will be as fearful of lying, ⟨p. 198⟩and perjury, and of swearing Allegiance to Church-usurpers, as we have been. There will still be a people seriously religious, that are Christians in good sadness, and really believe a life to come. There is no hindering it; God will have it so, and who can gainsay him? And these men will be as loth under pretence of order and decency to have Religion dwindle into a lifeless form of words and ceremonies, and to take the chaff and straw for the corn, as ever we have been before them. And the History of our sufferings will but animate them.

:692p. 198

5. Besides this, 1. While you are doing your work, you are dying; you are (alas! that's the cut-throat of your comforts) but mortal men your selves; Bonner is dead, and Gardiner is dead; Guise is dead, and D' Alva is dead. King Edward's Reformation, and Q. Mary's Persecution were both cut short by the shortness of their lives. When you have destroyed ten, or twenty, or an hundred Ministers, and are resolving, Thus we will use them all; A Fever, or an Apoplexy, or some other Messenger of an offended God, doth stop you in your course, and call you to judgment, and tell you that when it is too late, which you could not hear from such as we. Cum tamen a figulis munitam intraverit urbem. Sarcophago contentus erit: Mors sola fatetur, Quantula sint hominum Corpuscula—.

5. Besides this, 1. While you are doing your work, you are dying; you are (alas! that's the cut-throat of your comforts) but mortal men your selves; Bonner is dead, and Gardiner is dead; Guise is dead, and D' Alva is dead. King Edward's Reformation, and Q. Maries Persecution were both cut short by the shortness of their lives. When you have destroyed ten, or twenty, or an hundred Ministers, and are resolving, Thus we will use them all; A Fever, or an Apoplexy, or some other Messenger of an offended God, doth stop you in your course, and call you to judgment, and tell you that when it is too late, which you could not hear from such as we. Cum tamen a figulis munitam intraverit urbem. Sarcophago contentus erit: Mors sola fatetur, Quantula sint hominum Corpuscula—.

:693p. 198

Nature will not suffer you long; and Justice oft anticipateth the time of Nature. The strange Histories of Gods Judgments are not all fables. Nullane perjury capitis, fraudisque nefandae Poena erit? Juv.

Nature will not suffer you long; and Justice oft anticipateth the time of Nature. The strange Histories of Gods Judgments are not all fables. Nullane perjuri capitis, fraudisque nefandae Poena erit? Juv.

:694p. 198–200

6. And sometimes God stoppeth a Saul in his way with greater mercy. And sometimes crosses make men melancholy, and retire from their cruel course. Can you think of two such instance; as Diocletian and Charles the fifth, without admiration? And oft-times an accusing-conscience beginneth such a hell on earth, as interrupteth the execution of malicious purposes. And sometimes the very odium of the people turneth them off with shame; both which the same Poet intimateth, Sat. 13.⟨p. 200⟩ Exemplo quodcunque malo committitur, ipsi Displicet auctori, Prima est haec ultio, quod se Judice, nemo nocens absolvitur, improbae quamvis. Gratia fallacis Praetoris vicerit urnam. Quid sentire putas omnes Calvine, recenti De scelere, & fidei violatae crimine.

6. And sometimes God stoppeth a Saul in his way with greater mercy. And sometimes crosses make men melancholy, and retire from their cruel course. Can you think of two such instance; as Dioclesian and Charles the fifth, without admiration? And oft-times an accusing-conscience beginneth such a hell on earth, as interrupteth the execution of malicious purposes. And sometimes the very odium of the people turneth them off with shame; both which the same Poet intimateth, Sat. 13.⟨p. 200⟩ Exemplo quodcunque malo committitur, ipsi Displicet auctori, Prima est haec ultio, quod se Judice, nemo nocens absolvitur, improbae quamvis. Gratia fallacis Praetoris vicerit urnam. Quid sentire putas omnes Calvine, recenti De scelere, & fidei violatae crimine.

:695p. 200

And domestical afflictions may cool the fire of your consuming zeal! You must not look to be still imposing crosses, and making crosses for your neighbours, and feel none your selves: It may be your great Patrons may dye, or fall, or forsake you, and then your hearts are broken! It may be death may enter into your own families, and make you think what blood-thirstiness doth tend to. Ut Vigeant sensus animi, ducenda tamen sunt Funera natarum; rogus aspiciendus amatae Conjugis, & fratris, plenaeque sororibus urnae. Haec data poena diu viventibus, ut renovata. Semper clade domus, multis in luctibus, inque Perpetuo maerore, & ingra veste senescant.

And domestical afflictions may cool the fire of vour consuming zeal! You must not look to be still imposing crosses, and making crosses for your neighbours, and feel none your selves: It may be your great Patrons may dye, or fall, or forsake you, and then your hearts are broken! It may be death may enter into your own families, and make you think what blood-thirstiness doth tend to. Ut Vigeant sensus animi, ducenda tamen sunt Funera natarum; rogus aspiciendus amatae Conjugis, & fratris, plenaeque sororibus urnae. Haec data poena diu viventibus, ut renovata. Semper clade domus, multis in luctibus, inque Perpetuo maerore, & ingra veste senescant.

:696p. 200–201

7. And you must consider also, that if blood or destruction be the means which you trust to, you must set up a Shambles, or trade of butchery, and make it the profession of all your lives: For it is egregious folly to think, that it is but like the fighting with an Army, where all your enemies are in sight before you; and if you conquer them, you may kill them all at once: For they are dispersed all over the Land; and they cannot all, in a little time, be detected, and fairly convicted and brought to execution: But you must be a long time about the killing of those that are now in being; And when they are gone, the Surculi that spring out of their stumps, will in number perhaps exceed them, and find you work as long as you live. And then one cruel act will seem to cause a necessity of another, to justify it, and to make sure work, lest those that you have wronged, or any of their friends should possibly live to see your folly make you miserable (Therefore the Japonians killed and tormented not only the Christians, but their kindred, and all the next inhabitants). And besides, when men turn to so great sin, God usually so forsaketh them, that they ⟨p. 201⟩cannot tell how to make an end; They thirst for blood, till like Leeches they fall off with fullness: And the more wickedness they do, the more they are disposed to do. That you may see I have my boys School-books, though I am driven from my own, you shall have some more of Juvenal: Mobilis & varia est fermè natura malorum. Cum scelus admittunt, superest constantia: quid fas Atque nefas tandem incipiunt sentire peractis Criminibus; tamen ad mores natura recurrit Damnatos fixa, & mutari nescia: Nam quis Peccandi finem posuit sibi? quando recepit Ejectum semel attrita de fronte ruborem? Quisnam hominum est quem contentum videris uno Flagitio?

:697p. 201–202

And verily there was never any, or many known, that set up this carnificine trade, the stink of whose name did not reach as far as fame could carry it to the ears of men. And you will tempt men not only to think odiously of your selves, but to suspect your cause that needeth such a trade to keep it up: Even Erasmus had almost been made a Protestant, by the burning and tormenting of some Protestants: And Hospitalius, Thuanus, and the whole tribe of those learned moderators in France, were driven from the extremer sort of Popery by the extremity of their bloody cruelties. The nature of man pitieth and loveth chickens, and lambs and harmless loving creatures; and it hateth Foxes, Wolves and Kites, that live on flesh, and devour those that are better than themselves. Or if you could pretend that you had been first abused your selves, and did it in revenge, the world will think that you should be revenged but proportionably, and that on none but them that did it: yea revenge it self is a sign of a weak, ignoble soul, that hath little of a man, and less of a Christian. Quippe minuti Semper & infirmi est animi, exignique, voluptas Ultio; continuò sic collige quod vindicta Nemo magis gaudet quam faemina; cur tamen hos tu Evasisse putes, quos diri conscia facti Mens habet attonitos, & surdo verbere coedit ⟨p. 202⟩Occultam quationte animo tortore flagellum? Poena autem vehemens, ac multo saevior illis Quas & Caeditius gravis invenit, aut Rhadamanthus, Nocte dieque suum gestare in pectore testem.

And verily there was never any, or many known, that set up this carnificine trade, the stink of whose name did not reach as far as fame could carry it to the ears of men. And you will tempt men not only to think odiously of your selves, but to suspect your cause that needeth such a trade to keep it up: Even Erasmus had almost been made a Protestant, by the burning and tormenting of some Protestants: And Hospitalius, Thuanus, and the whole tribe of those learned moderators in France, were driven from the extreamer sort of Popery by the extremity of their bloody cruelties. The nature of man pitieth and loveth chickens, and lambs and harmless loving creatures; and it hateth Foxes, Wolves and Kites, that live on flesh, and devour those that are better than themselves. Or if you could pretend that you had been first abused your selves, and did it in revenge, the world will think that you should be revenged but proportionably, and that on none but them that did it: yea revenge it self is a sign of a weak, ignoble soul, that hath little of a man, and less of a Christian. Quippe minuti Semper & infirmi est animi, exignique, voluptas Ultio; continuò sic collige quod vindicta Nemo magis gaudet quam faemina; cur tamen hos tu Evasisse putes, quos diri conscia facti Mens habet attonitos, & surdo verbere coedit

:698p. 202

Therefore the foolish Ambitious Idols, who would fain be like to God in power, will yet pretend, that they would be like him also in Love and Mercy! And Nero will not disdain to read Seneca de clementiâ, & de Irâ. They would have power to do as much mischief as you can imagine; but they say they would not use it, but affright men by it into the obedience of their wills. Et qui nolunt occidere quenquam Posse volunt.

:699p. 202

But as the power breeds fear, so usually fear breedeth hatred. Though, I confess, it is not possible to have a sufficient Power to do good, without a Power to do some hurt.

:700p. 202

8. And then the whole Country will take notice how many worse men you leave alive, which will increase the odium; and make them look on you but as the enemies of mankind, and of all virtue and civility: or as the seed of the Serpent, that have an enmity to the Woman's seed: They will call you by the name of Cainites, when they see the blood of your brother Abel, while evil workers still survive. When such as Ames, Bath, Bradshaw, Hildersham, Dod, &c. yea as Hooker, Bilson, Jewel, &c. are hanged (which must be done if you will extend the punishment to all Nonconformists), the people will take notice, that thousands of fornicators, drunkards, ignorant sots, and senseless Atheists are suffered to live in peace! And do you not know what they will say and think of you upon such observations? They will say, If these Learned, holy, faithful Preachers would but have turned drunken sots, they might have scaped your jaws as such have done. As the forecited Poet mocked at Cicero's, O fortunatam, natam me Consul Romam, Antoni gladios potuit contemnere si sic Omnia dixisset: ridenda poemata malo, Quam te conspicuae divina Philippica famae—.

8. And then the whole Countrey will take notice how many worse men you leave alive, which will increase the odium; and make them look on you but as the enemies of mankind, and of all virtue and civility: or as the seed of the Serpent, that have an enmity to the Womans seed: They will call you by the name of Cainites, when they see the blood of your brother Abel, while evil workers still survive. When such as Ames, Baine, Bradshaw, Hildersham, Dod, &c. yea as Hooker, Bilson, Jewel, &c. are hanged (which must be done if you will extend the punishment to all Nonconsormists), the people will take notice, that thousands of fornicators, drunkards, ignorant sots, and sensless Atheists are suffered to live in peace! And do you not know what they will say and think of you upon such observations? They will say, If these Learned, holy, faithful Preachers would but have turned drunken sots, they might have scaped your jaws as such have done. As the forecited Poet mockt at Cicero's, O fortunatam, natam me Consule Romam, Antoni gladios potuit contemnere si sic Omnia dixisset: ridenda poemata malo, Quam te conspicuae divina Philippica famae—.

:701p. 203

If these Preachers would have talked a little half sense, and read a cold Oration, and lived like those that have little to do with God and Heaven, and would save men by a charm of words and shows, without this serious Godliness and Christianity, they might have had countenance and maintenance, and as much honour as such men as these can put upon them: But judicious, serious, hearty Godliness is intolerable to all the fleshly tribe, whose mind neither is nor can be subject to the Law of God, to which their interest and disposition hath an enmity. Eloquium ac famam Demosthenis aut Ciceronis Incipit optare, & totis quinquatribus optat, Quisquis adhuc uno partam colit ass Minervam, Quem sequitur custos Augustae vernula capsae: Eloquio sed uterque perit orator: utrunque Largus & exundans letho dedit ingenii fons: Ingenio manus est, & cervix caesa, nec unquam Sanguine Causidici maduerunt nostra pusilli.

If these Preachers would have talkt a little half sense, and read a cold Oration, and lived like those that have little to do with God and Heaven, and would save men by a charm of words and shews, without this serious Godliness and Christianity, they might have had countenance and maintenance, and as much honour as such men as these can put upon them: But judicious, serious, hearty Godliness is intolerable to all the fleshly tribe, whose mind neither is nor can be subject to the Law of God, to which their interest and disposition hath an enmity. Eloquium ac famam Demosthenis aut Ciceronis Incipit optare, & totis quinquatribus optat, Quisquis adhuc uno partam colit asse Minervam, Quem sequitur custos Augustae vernula capsae: Eloquio sed uterque perit orator: utrunque Largus & exundans letho dedit ingenii fons: Ingenio manus est, & cervix caesa, nec unquam Sanguine Causidici maduerunt nostra pusilli.

Reformers309

Puritans1,782

Westminster Assembly24

Evangelicals36