S. Well, for all this, I take it to be Gods Mercy to possess the unlearned Professors themselves, with so great a zeal against all that savoureth of Popery; so that were it not for them, the Ministers themselves would comply further than they do: But when they see that it is the sensus communis fidelium, and they must lose all the good people if they comply, it holds them in. Many that cannot dispute against Popish errors and practices, can hate them.

P. No doubt, but the habit of Divine Love, doth hold many good Christians much faster to God and the certain Essentials of Christianity and Piety, than the strongest disputing Reason would do without it. But if you will say the same of doubtful disputations, you will much mistake. In many such things the stricter professors go with the stream of their party, and follow them that carry it for the reputation of most godliness, or those leaders or friends that have most advantage on them. And do they not use the very same argument as you in different Countries for different ⟨p. 298⟩and contrary causes? In Germany the Communis sensus fideliu•• is one thing, and in England another, and in France another in such matters. Yea, in the same Country in several times. I can remember since among the Religious stricter party, it was abominable to wear long hair, even to cover the ears, and now these twenty years they many of them exceed those that then were accounted Ruffians. It was then a crime with them to take Tobacco, and now it is none: and thus custom changes the matter with them. And now in some Congregations they will not sing Psalms, in others they will not read the Scripture; In others these can be endured, but not the use of the Creed, Lords Prayer and Decalogue: In others that much, but no Forms of Prayer of mans devising: In others, the Ministers own self-imposed Form, but none imposed by Superiors: In one Congregation they are commonly for Universal Redemption and Free-will, and in another commonly against it: And why then would you persuade us, that in such things as these, the common sense of the faithful goeth all one way, when they usually are carried down the stream of pious reputation where they live? And indeed you have small reason to be glad, that Ministers have the temptation of popular esteem or censure to conflict with, or that so many are conquered by it. Is it a lovely thing to hear silly women (ever learning, or rather hearing, but never coming to a competent knowledge of such matters) to cant out against their Teachers [Antichristian] and [Popery] upon words or actions not understood, which suit not with their vain conceits?

P. No doubt, but the habit of Divine Love, doth hold many good Christians much faster to God and the certain Essentials of Christianity and Piety, than the strongest disputing Reason would do without it. But if you will say the same of doubtful disputations, you will much mistake. In many such things the stricter professors go with the stream of their party, and follow them that carry it for the reputation of most godliness, or those leaders or friends that have most advantage on them. And do they not use the very same argument as you in different Countreys for different ⟨p. 298⟩and contrary causes? In Germany the Communis sensus fideliu•• is one thing, and in England another, and in France another in such matters. Yea, in the same Countrey in several times. I can remember since among the Religious stricter party, it was abominable to wear long hair, even to cover the ears, and now these twenty years they many of them exceed those that then were accounted Ruffians. It was then a crime with them to take Tobacco, and now it is none: and thus custome changes the matter with them. And now in some Congregations they will not sing Psalms, in others they will not read the Scripture; In others these can be endured, but not the use of the Creed, Lords Prayer and Decalogue: In others that much, but no Forms of Prayer of mans devising: In others, the Ministers own self-imposed Form, but none imposed by Superiours: In one Congregation they are commonly for Universal Redemption and Free-will, and in another commonly against it: And why then would you perswade us, that in such things as these, the common sense of the faithful goeth all one way, when they usually are carryed down the stream of pious reputation where they live? And indeed you have small reason to be glad, that Ministers have the temptation of popular esteem or censure to conflict with, or that so many are conquered by it. Is it a lovely thing to hear silly women (ever learning, or rather hearing, but never coming to a competent knowledge of such matters) to cant out against their Teachers [Antichristian] and [Popery] upon words or actions not understood, which suit not with their vain conceits?

S. It is one of the artifices of the Papists which you have learned: when they would draw men to set light by the purity of Religion and the Worship of God, to cry up Love and Concord and Peace instead of it, and so to tie all mens tongues and hands from resisting their wicked Church-pollutions, by the fear of Schism, or being uncharitable to the polluters. And so you will draw men to an indifferency in Religion on pretence of Peace and Charity.

S. It is one of the artifices of the Papists which you have learned: when they would draw men to set light by the purity of Religion and the Worship of God, to cry up Love and Concord and Peace instead of it, and so to tye all mens tongues and hands from resisting their wicked Church-pollutions, by the fear of Schism, or being uncharitable to the polluters. And so you will draw men to an indifferency in Religion on pretence of Peace and Charity.

S. Is not the Church of Ephesus commended, Rev. 2. 3. that could not bear them that were evil, and that tried false Apostles and found them liars; and are they not blamed that did bear with the woman Jezebel and the doctrine of the Nicolaitans? And if God hate such doctrine, so must we.

S. Is not the Church of Ephesus commended, Rev. 2. 3. that could not bear them that were evil, and that tryed false Apostles and found them lyars; and are they not blamed that did bear with the woman Jezabel and the doctrine of the Nicolaitans? And if God hate such doctrine, so must we.

P. All this is true and good; but do not you misapply it to defend your uncharitableness, or error? I am not persuading you to Indifferency as to truth and falsehood, good and evil, nor to abate your hatred of Idolatry or such doctrine of wickedness and uncleanness as the Nicolaitan's was; nor yet to corrupt the Churches by neglecting Discipline. We would have a man that is an Heretic rejected after the first and second admonition: Bear not with any such evil in your Church Communion which should be cast out, and maketh men uncapable of Communion, (so far as it is in your power regularly to cast out such.) But as you must not take such for enemies, but still afford them a common sort of Charity, so you must not on this pretence, in your ignorance and rashness rave against truth or harmless things, or your Brethren that think not in all things as you do; nor call that Popery which sober wiser men than you, (yea, almost all Christs Church on earth) do take to be sound doctrine, or laudable practice. It is the shame of the party among us that most inclineth to separation, when sober understanding men shall hear an ignorant fellow or woman with confident boldness, rail at a controverted Doctrine, or a Form of Prayer, or Ceremony as Popery, and admonish their Teachers not to receive the Mark of the Beast, when they do but show their pride and ignorance, in overvaluing their own conceptions and unfurnished understandings, and vilifying the knowledge of others in their dark presumption. If you would bring such lesser errors under Church Discipline or Separation, on pretence of not bearing with them that are evil, it is you your selves that would soonest be found worthy to be separated from or cast out, who credit Popery by placing it in sound, good, decent or harmless things, and corrupt Doctrine and Worship by your▪ Errors and Superstitions, which you run into on the contrary extreme.

P. All this is true and good; but do not you misapply it to defend your uncharitableness, or error? I am not perswading you to Indifferency as to truth and falshood, good and evil, nor to abate your hatred of Idolatry or such doctrine of wickedness and uncleanness as the Nicolaitan's was; nor yet to corrupt the Churches by neglecting Discipline. We would have a man that is an Heretick rejected after the first and second admonition: Bear not with any such evil in your Church Communion which should be cast out, and maketh men uncapable of Communion, (so far as it is in your power regularly to cast out such.) But as you must not take such for enemies, but still afford them a common sort of Charity, so you must not on this pretence, in your ignorance and rashness rave against truth or harmless things, or your Brethren that think not in all things as you do; nor call that Popery which sober wiser men than you, (yea, almost all Christs Church on earth) do take to be sound doctrine, or laudable practice. It is the shame of the party among us that most inclineth to separation, when sober understanding men shall hear an ignorant fellow or woman with confident boldness, rail at a controverted Doctrine, or a Form of Prayer, or Ceremony as Popery, and admonish their Teachers not to receive the Mark of the Beast, when they do but shew their pride and ignorance, in overvaluing their own conceptions and unfurnished understandings, and vilifying the knowledge of others in their dark presumption. If you would bring such lesser errors under Church Discipline or Separation, on pretence of not bearing with them that are evil, it is you your selves that would soonest be found worthy to be separated from or cast out, who credit Popery by placing it in sound, good, decent or harmless things, and corrupt Doctrine and Worship by your Errors and Superstitions, which you run into on the contrary extream.

S. Your lax and loose principles would cast out all Discipline out of the Church.

S. Your laxe and loose principles would cast out all Discipline out of the Church.

P. You know not how much in your pretences to over-much strictness of Discipline, you agree with those Papists and Prelatists whom you seem to be most averse from. How hath the Pope subdued Emperors and Princes to himself, and captivated the World, but by the pretence of Discipline, by his Excommunications and Absolutions? How else have his Prelates disturbed this Kingdom in former Ages? And I my self had lately to do with one of the greatest Clergy-men that hath had a hand in our ejection, silencing and present Church-state, against whom I am fain to defend, that Kings and Chief Magistrates are not to be excommunicated: And I find the aforesaid English Non-conformist in the said Latin Tract. de Vera & Genuina Relig. pag. 280, 281. put upon the same task, and performing it by the same arguments which I used. I confess, the Papists and Worldly Tyrannical Clergy do corrupt Discipline, and cast out the true cleansing useful exercise of it; but for so much and such use as is conducible to maintain the interest of their Sect and Party and Carnality, no men are more hot: and is it not so with you?

P. You know not how much in your pretences to over-much strictness of Discipline, you agree with those Papists and Prelatists whom you seem to be most averse from. How hath the Pope subdued Emperours and Princes to himself, and captivated the World, but by the pretence of Discipline, by his Excommunications and Absolutions? How else have his Prelates disturbed this Kingdom in former Ages? And I my self had lately to do with one of the greatest Clergie-men that hath had a hand in our ejection, silencing and present Church-state, against whom I am fain to defend, that Kings and Chief Magistrates are not to be excommunicated: And I find the aforesaid English Non-conformist in the said Latin Tract. de Vera & Genuina Relig. pag. 280, 281. put upon the same task, and performing it by the same arguments which I used. I confess, the Papists and Worldly Tyrannical Clergie do corrupt Discipline, and cast out the true cleansing useful exercise of it; but for so much and such use as is conducible to maintain the interest of their Sect and Party and Carnality, no men are more hot: and is it not so with you?

FINIS.