Chapter 9: Difference VII., Church concord by Richard Baxter (1691) | AskReformation

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:197p. 36–37

Take Mr. Norton's yet larger Concessions, Pag. 110, &c. [Ecclesiae particulars mutuam Communionem inter se inire possunt, & in eis causae Communes omnium Ecclesiarum, i. e. talis res quae omnibus Ecclesiis particularibus Communes sunt, quamvis immediatè unam tantum Ecclesiam tangunt, ut sunt Pastorum ⟨p. 37⟩vocationes, Membrorum excommunicationes, &c. Vel etiam tales res quae immediatè omnes Ecclesias ex aequo tangunt communiter) Communi consensu Ecclesiarum dijudicentur & discernantur]—Pag. 111. [Solummodò inde Colligimus ei potestatem supremam decidendi quaestiones fidei debitam, quod & promptè damus—] Pag. 112. De necessitate Synodorum. Tametsi, Concilia non sint ita absolutè necessaria, ut Ecclesia sine illis nunquam bene esse possit; tamen in tantâ hominum malitia, & temporum perversitate, non tantum insigniter sunt utilia, sed etiam quodammodo necessaria: ita ut Ecclesia salutari hoc remedio non possit carere; sine insigni veritatis, pietatis & Concordiae Christianae detrimento. Nemo, inquit Parkerus, quod sciam, Ecclesiae alicujus reformatae alumnus ante Hugonem Grotium, negavit Synodos esse necessarias: quibus nos [Greek or Hebrew] libenter profitemur, sequentibus freti rationibus. 1. A Natura duce; Cujus dictamine in Controversiis difficilioribus & grandioribus à judicio inferiori ad. praecellentius confugimus. Hinc jus appellationum in causis gravioribus ab inferiori ad superiorem sententiam. Parker: Cum in causis & Personis Ecclesiasticis multae lites oriantur, jus appellationum necessariò concedendum quis neget? Appellationes sunt juris Divini, & naturalis, & in omni societate admodum necessariae, propter multorum judicum iniquitatem & ignorantiam. 2. A fine Concilii—3. Ab exemplo, &c. 4. A Praecellentia Concilii, &c. 5. A [Greek or Hebrew] Ecclesiarum; quam valde tuetur unio sententiarum in Synodis; unde [Greek or Hebrew] suavissima & diuturna, cum doctrina & mores probantur ad invicem: sin autem singulis Ecclesiis particularibus juxta sententias proprias incedere licet, nulla habita vicinarum ratione, quam facilè in parts & dissidia abiturae sunt? 6. A fructu administrationum: quae si caeteris Ecclesiis consentientibus fiant, spes est etiam fore efficaces: sin dissentientibus timendum ne inefficaces sint. E. g. in casu excommunicationis vicinis comprobantibus excommunicatus argutus ab omnibus, dijudicatus ab omnibus, procidens, &c.—Pag.

Take Mr. Norton's yet larger Concessions, Pag. 110, &c. [Ecclesiae particulares mutuam Communionem inter se inire possunt, & in eis causae Communes omnium Ecclesiarum, i. e. talis res quae omnibus Ecclesiis particularibus Communes sunt, quamvis immediatè unam tantum Ecclesiam tangunt, ut sunt Pastorum ⟨p. 37⟩vocationes, Membrorum excommunicationes, &c. Vel etiam tales res quae immediatè omnes Ecclesias ex aequo tangunt communiter) Communi consensu Ecclesiarum dijudicentur & discernantur]—Pag. 111. [Solummodò inde Colligimus ei potestatem supremam decidendi quaestiones fidei debitam, quod & promptè damus—] Pag. 112. De necessitate Synodorum. Tametsi, Concilia non sint ita absolutè necessaria, ut Ecclesia sine illis nunquam bene esse possit; tamen in tantâ hominum malitia, & temporum perversitate, non tantum insigniter sunt utilia, sed etiam quodammodo necessaria: ita ut Ecclesia salutari hoc remedio non possit carere; sine insigni veritatis, pietatis & Concordiae Christianae detrimento. Nemo, inquit Parkerus, quod sciam, Ecclesiae alicujus reformatae alumnus ante Hugonem Grotium, negavit Synodos esse necessarias: quibus nos 〈non-Latin alphabet〉 libenter profitemur, sequentibus freti rationibus. 1. A Natura duce; Cujus dictamine in Controversiis difficilioribus & grandioribus à judicio inferiori ad. praecellentius confugimus. Hinc jus appellationum in causis gravioribus ab inferiori ad superiorem sententiam. Parker: Cum in causis & Personis Ecclesiasticis multae lites oriantur, jus appellationum necessariò concedendum quis neget? Appellationes sunt juris Divini, & naturalis, & in omni societate admodum necessariae, propter multorum judicum iniquitatem & ignorantiam. 2. A fine Concilii—3. Ab exemplo, &c. 4. A Praecellentia Concilii, &c. 5. A 〈non-Latin alphabet〉 Ecclesiarum; quam valde tuetur unio sententiarum in Synodis; unde 〈non-Latin alphabet〉 suavissima & diuturna, cum doctrina & mores probantur ad invicem: sin autem singulis Ecclesiis particularibus juxta sententias proprias incedere licet, nulla habita vicinarum ratione, quam facilè in partes & dissidia abiturae sunt? 6. A fructu administrationum: quae si caeteris Ecclesiis consentientibus fiant, spes est etiam fore efficaces: sin dissentientibus timendum ne inefficaces sint. E. g. in casu excommunicationis vicinis comprobantibus excommunicatus argutus ab omnibus, dijudicatus ab omnibus, procidens, &c.—Pag.

:204p. 38–39

The Presbyterians deny not but Private men may Preach in some cases. None that fear God do desire any to bury their Talent, nor would hinder men from doing the Work of God. But they would have bona been, God's Work done in God's Order. On these Conditions we allow Private men to Preach. 1. If they do it but ex Charitate, and pretend not to the Ministerial Office. 2. And if they do it occasionally, and not as men separated to that work as their Calling (for then they become Ministers indeed while they disclaim it in Name. 3. If they do it not needlessly, to a proud ostentation of their parts; but only when Abler Men, or Ministers are not to be had, or else on some urgent weighty cause. 4. If they make not themselves the Judges of their own fitness, but expect the Approbation of the judicious, faithful, concordant Ministers that know them. 5. If they undertake no more than they can perform, and suppose not themselves fitter than they are, and so run not beyond their Knowledge, nor dishonour not the Work of God. 6. If they thrust not themselves into any Church to Preach without a Call, nor ordinarily without the Pastors consent. 7. If they do it not unseasonably when by offending they are likely to do more hurt than good. 8. If in the manner, season and continuance they submit to the Guidance of the Pastors of the Church (if it be more than ordinary Teaching, and not such as every able. Master of a Family may there do). With these Cautions we grant that Private men may Preach Many Episcopal Divines grant it: And the Presbyterians ordinarily permit it in their Expectants that are trained up for the Ministry. A Maid begun the Conversion of the Iberians by Conference; And interlocutory Preaching is truly Preaching. Edesius and Frumentius converted the Indians. Alexander Bishop of Jerusalem, and Theoctistus of Caesarea, maintained Origene's Teaching while he was a Private man: ⟨p. 39⟩and that in the Church before the Bishops. And when Demetrius of Alexandria reprehended them, affirming it to be an unknown case, that a Layman should preach in the presence of a Bishop, they gainsay him, and produce the Examples of Neon a Bishop that required Evelpius to teach, and of Celsus that set Paulinus to preach at Iconium, and of A••icus that set Theodorus to teach at Synnadorum. And, saith Dr.

The Presbyterians deny not but Private men may Preach in some cases. None that fear God do desire any to bury their Talent, nor would hinder men from doing the Work of God. But they would have bona bene, God's Work done in God's Order. On these Conditions we allow Private men to Preach. 1. If they do it but ex Charitate, and pretend not to the Ministerial Office. 2. And if they do it occasionally, and not as men separated to that work as their Calling (for then they become Ministers indeed while they disclaim it in Name. 3. If they do it not needlesly, to a proud ostentation of their parts; but only when Abler Men, or Ministers are not to be had, or else on some urgent weighty cause. 4. If they make not themselves the Judges of their own fitness, but expect the Approbation of the judicious, faithful, concordant Ministers that know them. 5. If they undertake no more than they can perform, and suppose not themselves fitter than they are, and so run not beyond their Knowledge, nor dishonour not the Work of God. 6. If they thrust not themselves into any Church to Preach without a Call, nor ordinarily without the Pastors consent. 7. If they do it not unseasonably when by offending they are likely to do more hurt than good. 8. If in the manner, season and continuance they submit to the Guidance of the Pastors of the Church (if it be more than ordinary Teaching, and not such as every able. Master of a Family may there do). With these Cautions we grant that Private men may Preach Many Episcopal Divines grant it: And the Presbyterians ordinarily permit it in their Expectants that are trained up for the Ministery. A Maid begun the Conversion of the Iberians by Conference; And interlocutory Preaching is truly Preaching. Edesius and Frumentius converted the Indians. Alexander Bishop of Ierusalem, and Theoctistus of Caesaria, maintained Origene's Teaching while he was a Private man: ⟨p. 39⟩and that in the Church before the Bishops. And when Demetrius of Alexandria reprehended them, affirming it to be an unknown case, that a Layman should preach in the presence of a Bishop, they gainsay him, and produce the Examples of Neon a Bishop that required Evelpius to teach, and of Celsus that set Paulinus to preach at Iconium, and of A••icus that set Theodorus to teach at Synnadorum. And, saith Dr.

:207p. 39

But are we not agreed in this? Hear and Judge: Mr. Cotton so downright denieth ordinary private Men to Prophesy, interpreting 1 Cor. 14. 31. of extraordinarily Gifted Prophets (of which see his Keys, pag. 20, 21.) that Mr. Goodwin and Mr. Nigh thought meet to signify some Dissent, Pref. p. 6. And yet they grant, that this must be performed by private Men, [1. Only Occasionally, not in an ordinary Course. 2. By Men of such Abilities as are fit for Office. 3. And not assuming this of themselves, but judged such by those that have the power, and so allowed and designed to it. And, 4. So as their Doctrine be subjected (for the judging of it) in an especial manner, to the Teaching Elders of that Church.] And I think that this is enough to signify, that here we shall have no cause of a breach with them. Mr. Norton speaks to the same purpose, pag. 123, 124, 125. and joins with Mr. Cotton in denying Prophesy to private Men, and expounding 1 Cor. 14. of extraordinarily Gifted Prophets only: In this therefore Doctrinally we agree.

But are we not agreed in this? Hear and Judge: Mr. Cotton so downright denieth ordinary private Men to Prophesie, interpreting 1 Cor. 14. 31. of extraordinarily Gifted Prophets (of which see his Keys, pag. 20, 21.) that Mr. Goodwin and Mr. Nye thought meet to signifie some Dissent, Pref. p. 6. And yet they grant, that this must be performed by private Men, [1. Only Occasionally, not in an ordinary Course. 2. By Men of such Abilities as are fit for Office. 3. And not assuming this of themselves, but judged such by those that have the power, and so allowed and designed to it. And, 4. So as their Doctrine be subjected (for the judging of it) in an especial manner, to the Teaching Elders of that Church.] And I think that this is enough to signifie, that here we shall have no cause of a breach with them. Mr. Norton speaks to the same purpose, pag. 123, 124, 125. and joins with Mr. Cotton in denying Prophesie to private Men, and expounding 1 Cor. 14. of extraordinarily Gifted Prophets only: In this therefore Doctrinally we agree.