A30189:130
An answer to two treatises of Mr. John Can, the leader of the English…An answer to two treatises of Mr. Iohn Can, the leader of the English…
An answer to two treatises of Mr. John Can, the leader of the English Brownists in Amsterdam the former called, A necessity of separation from the Church of England, proved by the Nonconformists principles : the other, A stay against straying : wherein in opposition to M. John Robinson, he undertakes to prove the unlawfulness of hearing the ministers of the Church of England ... / by the late learned, laborious and faithful servant of Jesus Christ, John Ball.An answer to two treatises of Mr. Iohn Can, the leader of the English Brownists in Amsterdam the former called, A necessitie of separation from the Church of England, proved by the Nonconformists principles : the other, A stay against straying : wherein in opposition to M. Iohn Robinson, he undertakes to prove the unlawfulnesse of hearing the ministers of the Church of England ... / by the late learned, laborious and faithfull servant of Jesus Christ, John Ball.
London: printed by R.B., 1642
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
And if haste had not blinded, 1this you might have observed out of the Separatists themselves. There is (saith one speaking of Baptism) in this point a further consideration to be had, unto which both the Scriptures, and our own experience do lead us: namely, that as the Lord hath his people in Babylon, his I mean, both in respect of election, and of personal sanctification: so hath he for their sakes there preserved (notwithstanding all the Apostasy and confusion which is found in it) sundry his holy truths and ordinances, amongst which Baptism is one. But if his ordinances be preserved, or any one of them true for substance, of necessity some truth of Ministry, whereby those ordinances be administered, must be preserved also.
And if haste had not blinded, 1this you might have observed out of the Separatists themselves. There is (saith one speaking of Baptisme) in this point a further consideration to be had, unto which both the Scriptures, and our owne experience doe lead us: namely, that as the Lord hath his people in Babylon, his I meane, both in respect of election, and of personall sanctification: so hath he for their sakes there preserved (notwithstanding all the Apostasie and confusion which is found in it) sundry his holy truths and ordinances, amongst which Baptisme is one. But if his ordinances be preserved, or any one of them true for substance, of necessity some truth of Ministerie, whereby those ordinances be administred, must bee preserved also.
- 1Robinson against Bern. reasons discuss. p. 285.
It is an injury to the people (as the Non-conformists hold) ⟨p. 36⟩1that a Minister should be thrust upon them against their wills, or whom they never saw, nor heard of. But if the people be few, simple, apt to be deceived, unable to judge of the fitness of a Minister, they stand in need of direction, not only from their own Elders, but from other Churches. The practice of the Apostles will confirm this: for sometimes men were propounded unto the Church to be chosen, and sometimes the choice was wholly left unto them. And was not this for our direction, that more liberty may be given, where the danger is less, and more caution and restraint used, where the danger is apparent, that if they be left unto themselves, either an ill, or an unfit choice shall be made? In reason it is evident, for the child's consent is required in marriage, and the more able he is to choose for himself, the more liberty may Parents grant him in his choice, but if he be not able, or less able, the more watchful must they be over him; and so in this matter.