A30189:307
An answer to two treatises of Mr. John Can, the leader of the English…An answer to two treatises of Mr. Iohn Can, the leader of the English…
An answer to two treatises of Mr. John Can, the leader of the English Brownists in Amsterdam the former called, A necessity of separation from the Church of England, proved by the Nonconformists principles : the other, A stay against straying : wherein in opposition to M. John Robinson, he undertakes to prove the unlawfulness of hearing the ministers of the Church of England ... / by the late learned, laborious and faithful servant of Jesus Christ, John Ball.An answer to two treatises of Mr. Iohn Can, the leader of the English Brownists in Amsterdam the former called, A necessitie of separation from the Church of England, proved by the Nonconformists principles : the other, A stay against straying : wherein in opposition to M. Iohn Robinson, he undertakes to prove the unlawfulnesse of hearing the ministers of the Church of England ... / by the late learned, laborious and faithfull servant of Jesus Christ, John Ball.
London: printed by R.B., 1642
Chapter 1 › Section 6 › CAN. Necess. of Separation, Pag. 37. › ANSWER.
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
And on the other side, if they be not lawful Ministers who receive their Ordination from Bishops, the Churches of God throughout the world, have been destitute of lawful Ministers for the space of this fourteen or fifteen hundred ⟨p. 96⟩years, which the Non-conformists will never affirm. As Rome it self is a Church, as the Church is opposed to Turks, and Infidels, and as Heretics, specially they whose opinions are not in specie (as they say) pernicious, 1are the Church: So in Rome and amongst Heretics, so much truth of Ministry is found, as the acts they do are not void altogether and of none effect.
And on the other side, if they bee not lawfull Ministers who receive their Ordination from Bishops, the Churches of God throughout the world, have beene destitute of lawfull Ministers for the space of this foureteene or fifteene hundred ⟨p. 96⟩yeares, which the Non-conformists will never affirme. As Rome it selfe is a Church, as the Church is opposed to Turkes, and Infidels, and as Heretickes, specially they whose opinions are not in specie (as they say) pernicious, 1are the Church: So in Rome and amongst Heretickes, so much truth of Ministery is found, as the acts they doe are not voyd altogether and of none effect.
- 1CAN Stay. § 2. pag. 11.
The doctrine of the Nicolaitaus (which was, that adultery and fornication were no sins, and that men might communicate with the sacrifices of Idolaters in their Idol Temples. Iren. l. 1. c. 27. Epiphan. 1. Tom. 1.) Was not (you say) in the judgment of the Churches at Pergamus & Thyatira esteemed as a thing that might not be born withal. If Pergamus and Thyatyra, so grievously corrupted were true Churches, The receiving of Ordination from the hands of a Bishop doth not so leaven the Ministry as to make a nullity thereof, or make it unlawful for others to join therewith in the worship of God.