A30189:426
An answer to two treatises of Mr. John Can, the leader of the English…An answer to two treatises of Mr. Iohn Can, the leader of the English…
An answer to two treatises of Mr. John Can, the leader of the English Brownists in Amsterdam the former called, A necessity of separation from the Church of England, proved by the Nonconformists principles : the other, A stay against straying : wherein in opposition to M. John Robinson, he undertakes to prove the unlawfulness of hearing the ministers of the Church of England ... / by the late learned, laborious and faithful servant of Jesus Christ, John Ball.An answer to two treatises of Mr. Iohn Can, the leader of the English Brownists in Amsterdam the former called, A necessitie of separation from the Church of England, proved by the Nonconformists principles : the other, A stay against straying : wherein in opposition to M. Iohn Robinson, he undertakes to prove the unlawfulnesse of hearing the ministers of the Church of England ... / by the late learned, laborious and faithfull servant of Jesus Christ, John Ball.
London: printed by R.B., 1642
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
You allege D. Amos saying, It cannot be a true Church that wants order; For by this the parts and members thereof are knit together. But this is not to be found in the place mentioned: But D. Ames moving the question, whether it be lawful to stick to that Church, from whom power of removing scandals, and purging out the ungodly, is taken away? He answereth. That power, •jure & quoad actum primum, cannot be separated from the true Church, because immediately and necessarily it floweth from the essence it self, for it is contained in that covenant, whereby the faithful are gathered into a Church. The use of this power cannot be taken away, without the great sin of them that take it away, and the heinous injury of them from whom it is taken. Neither ought the Church to rest in this, that, she seeth her self unjustly oppressed of others. For it belongeth to the office of the Church to defend that liberty, where with she is endowed of Christ. But yet if the faithful contending for their liberty, cannot obtain their right in that part, nor without grievous inconveniences come to a more free Church, and can keep themselves from the approbation of evil, and do also study as much as in them lieth to supply that want, they sin not, if they join themselves to such a Church, or continue in it; Thus D. Ames, clean contrary to that which you make him affirm.
You alledge D. Amos saying, It cannot be a true Church that wants order; For by this the parts and members thereof are knit together. But this is not to bee found in the place mentioned: But D. Aines moving the question, whether it be lawfull to stick to that Church, from whom power of removing scandals, and purging out the ungodly, is taken away? He answereth. That power, •jure & quoad actum primum, cannot be separated from the true Church, because immediately and necessarily it floweth from the essence it selfe, for it is contained in that covenant, whereby the faithfull are gathered into a Church. The use of this power cannot be taken away, without the great sin of them that take it away, and the hainous injurie of them from whom it is taken. Neither ought the Church to rest in this, that, she seeth her selfe unjustly oppressed of others. For it belongeth to the office of the Church to defend that libertie, where with she is endowed of Christ. But yet if the faithfull contending for their libertie, cannot obtaine their right in that part, nor without grievous inconveniences come to a more free Church, and can keepe themselves from the approbation of evill, and doe also studie as much as in them lieth to supply that want, they sinne not, if they joyne themselves to such a Church, or continue in it; Thus D. Ames, cleane contrary to that which you make him affirme.