A30189:494
An answer to two treatises of Mr. John Can, the leader of the English…An answer to two treatises of Mr. Iohn Can, the leader of the English…
An answer to two treatises of Mr. John Can, the leader of the English Brownists in Amsterdam the former called, A necessity of separation from the Church of England, proved by the Nonconformists principles : the other, A stay against straying : wherein in opposition to M. John Robinson, he undertakes to prove the unlawfulness of hearing the ministers of the Church of England ... / by the late learned, laborious and faithful servant of Jesus Christ, John Ball.An answer to two treatises of Mr. Iohn Can, the leader of the English Brownists in Amsterdam the former called, A necessitie of separation from the Church of England, proved by the Nonconformists principles : the other, A stay against straying : wherein in opposition to M. Iohn Robinson, he undertakes to prove the unlawfulnesse of hearing the ministers of the Church of England ... / by the late learned, laborious and faithfull servant of Jesus Christ, John Ball.
London: printed by R.B., 1642
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
you clean contrary make him to say, That men cannot communicate in the ordinances, or worship God in that society, where such things are practised, but of necessity they must communicate in the sin. He teacheth, That he that useth the Idolothite or material Idol, is not an Idolater, because he doth not use it idolatrously: but you make the Nonconformists to say, that it is an idolatrous worship, and that it defileth the true worship of God, to all that are present. Mr Parker extendeth the guilt of participation in part only, to him that useth the Idolothite, you make him to affirm, that every one present at the worship, doth communicate in his offence. Perhaps you will say, it is your inference upon his words: But the consequence is absurd and senseless: And to charge men to affirm directly as a principle, what you would infer contrary to their express words, is far from honest and plain dealing.
you cleane contrary make him to say, That men cannot communicate in the ordinances, or worship God in that societie, where such things are practised, but of necessitie they must communicate in the sinne. He teacheth, That he that useth the Idolothite or materiall Idoll, is not an Idolater, because he doth not use it idolatrously: but you make the Nonconformists to say, that it is an idolatrous worship, and that it defileth the true worship of God, to all that are present. Mr Parker extendeth the guilt of participation in part onely, to him that useth the Idolothite, you make him to affirme, that every one present at the worship, doth communicate in his offence. Perhaps you will say, it is your inference upon his words: But the consequence is absurd and sencelesse: And to charge men to affirme directly as a principle, what you would inferre contrary to their expresse words, is far from honest and plaine dealing.
Secondly, You produce Mr Bates, saying, That bare presence argues approbation or yielding in show to Ceremonies, I cannot say, you deal with Mr Bates, as you have done by Mr Parker and others, for I have not seen his Book. But if any such passage be found in him, it is his private opinion, not the judgement of the most learned and zealous Inconformists: It is a bare assertion, not confirmed by Scripture, or backed with reason, as is meet and convenient, when it is the main thing in question, and might easily be opposed by the testimonies of Scripture, approved practice of the Saints in all ages of the Church, the judgement of the godly learned, sound reason, and the consent of all States that ever upheld or maintained Christian Religion. If bare presence be approbation, I desire to know, how you can reconcile your self to your self. When Dr Ames allegeth, that every Church is not to be left, which hath something in it by participation Idolatrous.