A30189:549
An answer to two treatises of Mr. John Can, the leader of the English…An answer to two treatises of Mr. Iohn Can, the leader of the English…
An answer to two treatises of Mr. John Can, the leader of the English Brownists in Amsterdam the former called, A necessity of separation from the Church of England, proved by the Nonconformists principles : the other, A stay against straying : wherein in opposition to M. John Robinson, he undertakes to prove the unlawfulness of hearing the ministers of the Church of England ... / by the late learned, laborious and faithful servant of Jesus Christ, John Ball.An answer to two treatises of Mr. Iohn Can, the leader of the English Brownists in Amsterdam the former called, A necessitie of separation from the Church of England, proved by the Nonconformists principles : the other, A stay against straying : wherein in opposition to M. Iohn Robinson, he undertakes to prove the unlawfulnesse of hearing the ministers of the Church of England ... / by the late learned, laborious and faithfull servant of Jesus Christ, John Ball.
London: printed by R.B., 1642
Chapter 4 › Section 2 › ANSWER.Chapter 4 › Section 2 › ANSVVER.
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
ANSWER.
ANSVVER.
When you speak of visible Churches, and visible and external holiness, so far as men can judge, it is to small purpose to mention the Church of Angels in heaven. For the Church whereof you entreat, is a society of men, holy in profession, and outward conformity, but not evermore in truth, whereas the society of Angels (if it be comprehended under the Church) is invisible and perfectly holy. I speak of them as they were by creation, and of as many as stood in ⟨p. 52⟩their integrity, who only are to be understood by that title.
VVHen you speake of visible Churches, and visible and externall holinesse, so farre as men can judge, it is to small purpose to mention the Church of Angels in heaven. For the Church whereof you intreat, is a societie of men, holy in profession, and outward conformitie, but not evermore in truth, whereas the societie of Angels (if it be comprehended under the Church) is invisible and perfectly holy. I speake of them as they were by creation, and of as many as stood in ⟨p. 52⟩their integritie, who onely are to be understood by that title.
It is to as little purpose, to speak of the Church in Paradise in the state of innocency: For the Church understood in this present business, consists of men considered in the estate, which they now have promised by God being made man: or man fallen by sin and restored by Christ, who tooe them by the hand and lifted them up. That is properly the Church, which was gathered after man fallen, and is restored in Christ, which as it is visible consisteth of good and bad, as you say. But the Church in the state of innocency, consisted of such only as were created of God, perfectly holy, as befitted such creatures, until by transgression they fell from their integrity. The state of the Church which we must enquire into, is that which God hath gathered, planted, constituted, preserved, continued and propagated since the fall of man.