Irenicum, to the lovers of truth and peace heart-divisions opened in the causes and…

To this he answers, Tyranny in the Ministers needs not be feared, where the rule of the Gospel for censures is observed; for in casting out any who will not be reclaimed, the consent of the Church must be had; and if it be done by this authority, none can complain of the tyranny of a few.

To this he answers, Tyrannie in the Ministers needs not be feared, where the rule of the Gospel for censures is observed; for in casting out any who will not be reclaimed, the consent of the Church must be had; and if it be done by this authority, none can complain of the tyrannie of a few.

Cyprian in his sixth Epistle professeth his resolution to do nothing without the counsel of the Elders,¹ and consent of the people. Our Brethren of Scotland in their opposition to the Prelates, give very much to the people in the matter of Excommunication: It pertaineth say they to the whole Church collectively taken to deny her Christian communion to such wicked persons as add contumacy to their disobedience,² therefore it pertaineth to the whole Church to excommunicate them.³ Again, It pertaineth to the whole Church to admit one into her communion, therefore to the whole Church to cast one out of her communion. And a page or two after, The Apostle writing to the whole Church of Corinth will have them being gathered together, to deliver that incestuous person to Satan, therefore every particular Church or Congregation hath power to excommunicate. There they give many arguments to prove, that the Apostle would not excommunicate by his own authority alone, but by the authority of the Church, and that collectively taken, (so they say) not the Ministers or Elders of the Church only.

Cyprian in his sixt Epistle professeth his resolution to doe nothing without the counsell of the Elders,¹ and consent of the people. Our Brethren of Scotland in their opposition to the Prelates, give very much to the people in the matter of Excommunication: It pertaineth say they to the whole Church collectively taken to deny her Christian communion to such wicked persons as adde contumacie to their disobedience,² therefore it pertaineth to the whole Church to excommunicate them.³ Againe, It pertaineth to the whole Church to admit one into her communion, therefore to the whole Church to cast one out of her communion. And a page or two after, The Apostle writing to the whole Church of Corinth will have them being gathered together, to deliver that incestuous person to Satan, therefore every particular Church or Congregation hath power to excommunicate. There they give many arguments to prove, that the Apostle would not excommunicate by his owne authority alone, but by the authority of the Church, and that collectively taken, (so they say) not the Ministers or Elders of the Church onely.

1. 1Statuerim nihil fine con•ilio vestro, & •ine consensu plebis agere. Cyp. ep. 6
2. 2Part 3. cap. 8. digres. 4. l. 181.
3. 3Dispute against English Popish Ceremonies.

Let no man say, this was the judgement but of one Minister, ⟨p. 156⟩for at the beginning of this Parliament, my self, together with a reverend Brother, asked Master Henderson, two or three of the Ministers of Scotland being with him, Whether we might not take that Book as the judgement of the most godly and able of the Ministers of Scotland, for the matters of Church-discipline? They answered, we might.

Let no man say, this was the judgement but of one Minister, ⟨p. 156⟩for at the beginning of this Parliament, my selfe, together with a reverend Brother, asked Master Henderson, two or three of the Ministers of Scotland being with him, Whether we might not take that Book as the judgement of the most godly and able of the Ministers of Scotland, for the matters of Church-discipline? They answered, we might.

Some say that no Minister can have the charge of ruling over people in a large extent then his charge over them for Word and Sacraments reaches; they think that those people that can say to a Minister, That charge that Christ hath given you for Word and Sacraments, extends not to take care of our souls to feed them, therefore you have no charge of our souls for ruling; if you think you may, preach or administer Sacraments in an accidental arbitrary way only, not as challenging power over us for this, or looking upon us as those committed to you, for whom you are to answer; then at the farthest you may exercise rule over us but in this way.

Some say that no Minister can have the charge of ruling over people in a large extent then his charge over them for Word and Sacraments reaches; they thinke that those people that can say to a Minister, That charge that Christ hath given you for Word and Sacraments, extends not to take care of our soules to feed them, therefore you have no charge of our souls for ruling; if you thinke you may, preach or administer Sacraments in an accidentall arbitrary way onely, not as chalenging power over us for this, or looking upon us as those committed to you, for whom you are to answer; then at the farthest you may exercise rule over us but in this way.

But others hold this, That a Minister may answer to this people thus, I confess I have indeed only such a particular Congregation to be my flock, and although I being desired to help sometimes in another to preach or administer Sacraments▪ yet I do it not as having the charge of their souls as being Pastor to them: But as for that ruling power that Christ hath given me, I conceive by joining of it with others, it extends to hundreds of Congregations, or more, according as our association shall be, so as we have not only liberty to be helpful to those who have the special charge of the Congregations; but we have the supreme ruling power in our hands, ⟨p. 157⟩to challenge in the Name of Christ, to exercise over these Congregations, as we shall see cause. I say, the supreme power above what your Ministers or Elders in your particular Congregations have; for though these Ministers and Elders of yours be admitted to be members of our Court, yet if they all should be of a contrary mind from us, in some matter that concerns your Congregation, we yet will judge and determine, we will censure and exercise all kind of Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction in that congregation, as we see cause, though it may be not one of us ever saw any of the faces of any of the men of your congregation before. Here, I say, lies the great dividing controversy, which is right, which is wrong is not my work to show; all I am to do, is but to show you what the controversy is, about which there is so much dispute.

But others hold this, That a Minister may answer to this people thus, I confesse I have indeed onely such a particular Congregation to be my flock, and although I being desired to help sometimes in another to preach or administer Sacraments▪ yet I doe it not as having the charge of their soules as being Pastor to them: But as for that ruling power that Christ hath given me, I conceive by joyning of it with others, it extends to hundreds of Congregations, or more, according as our association shall be, so as we have not onely liberty to be helpfull to those who have the speciall charge of the Congregations; but we have the supreame ruling power in our hands, ⟨p. 157⟩to challenge in the Name of Christ, to exercise over these Congregations, as we shall see cause. I say, the supreme power above what your Ministers or Elders in your particular Congregations have; for though these Ministers and Elders of yours be admitted to be members of our Court, yet if they all should be of a contrary minde from us, in some matter that concernes your Congregation, we yet will judge and determine, we will censure and exercise all kinde of Ecclesiasticall Jurisdiction in that congregation, as we see cause, though it may be not one of us ever saw any of the faces of any of the men of your congregation before. Here, I say, lyes the great dividing controversie, which is right, which is wrong is not my worke to shew; all I am to doe, is but to shew you what the controversie is, about which there is so much dispute.

And though I determine not the case either way, yet I shall leave two considerations to help you in your thoughts about it.

First, the extent of power of Jurisdiction must be by institution §1as well as the power it self; all juridical power whatsoever, either in State or Church receives limits or extent from the same authority it first had its rise, this is impossible to be denied: If a man by a Charter be made a Mayor of a Town, he cannot therefore challenge the power of a Mayor wheresoever he comes, except the authority that first gave him his power shall also extend it. Now the Charter by which any Church-Officer is invested with power, is the Word, therefore we cannot straiten or enlarge the power of a Minister otherwise then we find it in the Word; for Civill power it may be straitened or enlarged, as the Governors of State shall see cause, because their Charter is from man, it is [Greek or Hebrew].

First, the extent of power of Jurisdiction must be by institution §1as well as the power it selfe; all juridicall power whatsoever, either in State or Church receives limits or extent from the same authority it first had its rise, this is impossible to be denyed: If a man by a Charter be made a Mayor of a Towne, he cannot therefore challenge the power of a Mayor wheresoever he comes, except the authority that first gave him his powver shall also extend it. Now the Charter by which any Church-Officer is invested with power, is the Word, therefore we cannot streighten or enlarge the power of a Minister otherwise then we find it in the Word; for Civill power it may be streightned or enlarged, as the Governours of State shall see cause, because their Charter is from man, it is 〈non-Latin alphabet〉.

Secondly, man naturally is of nothing more impatient then to §2have Jurisdiction challenged over him, except he sees the claim to be right; and in the point of spiritual jurisdiction, man is the most tender of all, because in that men come in the Name of Christ to him, challenging authority to exercise the power of Christ over him, not over the outward man so much as over his soul, to deliver it up to Satan. Surely there had need be shown a clear and full Charter, that any men have, that gives them such a power as this, that men in conscience ⟨p. 158⟩shall be bound to submit to. Now then here lies the division, on says his Charter does extend so far; the other says, he does not find it so in the reading of it.

Secondly, man naturally is of nothing more impatient then to §2have Jurisdiction challenged over him, except hee sees the claime to be right; and in the point of spirituall jurisdiction, man is the most tender of all, because in that men come in the Name of Christ to him, challenging authority to exercise the power of Christ over him, not over the outward man so much as over his soule, to deliver it up to Satan. Surely there had need be shewne a cleare and full Charter, that any men have, that gives them such a power as this, that men in conscience ⟨p. 158⟩shall be bound to submit to. Now then here lyes the division, on sayes his Charter does extend so farre; the other sayes, hee does not finde it so in the reading of it.

There is yet a further consideration of the stretching either Civill or Ecclesiastical authority beyond their bounds, which hath been, and may be the cause of much division; that is, their challenging and exercising power in things indifferent, beyond what God hath given them; for the opening of which we must know:

There is yet a further consideration of the stretching either Civill or Ecclesiasticall authority beyond their bounds, which hath been, and may be the cause of much division; that is, their challenging and excercising power in things indifferent, beyond what God hath given them; for the opening of which we must know:

First, no man either in State or Church, hath any authority given him by God, to command any thing merely because he will; especially, when the things concern the worship of God. Our Brethren of Scotland in their dispute against English Popish Ceremonies, part 3. chap. 8. pag. 127. have this passage, Princes have enjoined things pertaining to the worship of God, but those things were the very same which Gods written Word had expressly commanded; when Princes went beyond these limits and bounds, they took upon them to judge and command more then God hath put within the compass of their power: And pag. 136. of the same Book they say, The Apostle, 1 Cor. 7. 23. forbiddeth us to be the servants of men, that is, to do things for which we have no other warrant beside the pleasure and will of men. This was the Doctrine in Tertullians time, ¹You exercise, says he, an unjust dominion over others, if you deny a thing may be done, because you will, not because it ought not to be done.

First, no man either in State or Church, hath any authority given him by God, to command any thing meerely because hee will; especially, when the things concerne the worship of God. Our Brethren of Scotland in their dispute against English Popish Ceremonies, part 3. chap. 8. pag. 127. have this passage, Princes have enjoyned things pertaining to the worship of God, but those things were the very same which Gods written Word had expresly commanded; when Princes went beyond these limits and bounds, they tooke upon them to judge and command more then God hath put within the compasse of their power: And pag. 136. of the same Booke they say, The Apostle, 1 Cor. 7. 23. forbiddeth us to be the servants of men, that is, to doe things for which wee have no other warrant beside the pleasure and will of men. This was the Doctrine in Tertullians time, ¹You exercise, sayes he, an unjust dominion over others, if you deny a thing may bee done, because you will, not because it ought not to bee done.

1. 1Iniquam excercetis dominationem, si ideo negatis licere quia vultis, non quia debuit non licere, Tertul. Apol. advers. Gentes.

It is only the Prerogative of God, of Jesus Christ, to command a thing because they will.

It is onely the Prerogative of God, of Jesus Christ, to command a thing because they will.

God hath appointed Civill Governors to be his Ministers for our good. Rom. 13. Those things only which they can do in Gods Name as his Ministers, and are for the good of a State, are the object about which their power is to be exercised; they are not to require a thing because there is nothing against it, but because this thing is for God: And Church-governors are to require only such things as Christ requires, all the exercise of their power ought to be in the Name of Christ, hence not because they will, or because nothing can be said to the contrary.

God hath appointed Civill Governours to be his Ministers for our good. Rom. 13. Those things onely which they can doe in Gods Name as his Ministers, and are for the good of a State, are the object about which their power is to be exercised; they are not to require a thing because there is nothing against it, but because this thing is for God: And Church-governours are to require onely such things as Christ requires, all the exercise of their power ought to be in the Name of Christ, hence not because they will, or because nothing can be said to the contrary.

In all they require of us, they must be able to say as Paul, ⟨p. 159⟩1 Cor. 14. 38. giving rules about order and decency, If any man think himself to be a Prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the Commandments of the Lord.

In all they require of us, they must be able to say as Paul, ⟨p. 159⟩1 Cor. 14. 38. giving rules about order and decencie, If any man thinke himselfe to be a Prophet, or spirituall, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the Commandements of the Lord.

You will say, But are Governors always bound to show a reason of their will, to those who are under them; or may not they obey except they know some good in the thing, besides their doing the will of those who do command them?

You will say, But are Governours alwayes bound to shew a reason of their will, to those who are under them; or may not they obey except they know some good in the thing, besides their doing the will of those who doe command them?

Though no Governors may command but upon reason,¹ yet the Governors of State need not always discover the reasons of their commands.

Though no Governours may command but upon reason,¹ yet the Governours of State need not alwayes discover the reasons of their commands.

1. 1Answ.