A41334:163
A sober reply to the sober answer of Reverend Mr. Cawdrey, to A serious…
A sober reply to the sober answer of Reverend Mr. Cawdrey, to A serious question propounded viz. whether the ministers of England are bound by the word of God to baptise the children of all such parents, which say they believe in Jesus Christ, but are grossly ignorant, scandalous in their conversations, scoffers at godliness, and refuse to submit to church discipline ... : also, the question of Reverend Mr. Hooker concerning the baptism of infants : with a post-script to Reverend Mr. Blake / by G.I. Firmin ...A sober reply to the sober answer of Reverend Mr. Cawdrey, to A serious question propounded viz. whether the ministers of England are bound by the word of God to baptise the children of all such parents, which say they believe in Jesus Christ, but are grosly ignorant, scandalous in their conversations, scoffers at godliness, and refuse to submit to church dicipline ... : also, the question of Reverend Mr. Hooker concerning the baptisme of infants : with a post-script to Reverend Mr. Blake / by G.I. Firmin ...
London: printed by J.G., 1653
A SOBER REPLY TO A SOBER ANSWER, &c.A SOBER REPLY TO A SOBER ANSVVER, &c.
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
Further, I should much desire that those who oppose the Church-Covenant, would lay down a Church-member in his essential causes, then they teach clearest: as for profession, Christianity [or what you will call this is but the causa materialis of a Church member, for it is not Man quâ sio (for then all) but Man quâ professing, as Saint visible, that is the materialis causa, this then is not the formalis causa, for to have the same thing to be Causa materialis & formalis respectu ejusdem effecti is strange: therefore till I see a better I must say, that this Christians consenting or covenanting with this particular Church, and these Officers in it, to walk according to the Gospel, &c. is the formal cause of this Church-member.
Further, I should much desire that those who oppose the Church-Covenant, would lay down a Church-member in his estentiall causes, then they teach clearest: as for profession, Christianity [or what you will call this is but the causa materialis of a Church member, for it is not Man quâ sio (for then all) but Man quâ professing, as Saint visible, that is the materialis causa, this then is not the formalis causa, for to have the same thing to be Causa materialis & formalis respectu ejusdem effecti is strange: therefore till I see a better I must say, that this Christians consenting or covenanting with this particular Church, and these Officers in it, to walke according to the Gospell, &c. is the formall cause of this Church-member.
In some sense we may say, the matter doth distinguish things, a lump of Gold, from a lump of Clay differs materially: but one Golden vessel differs not from another, but per formam: Christians as visible Saints or Churches constituted of such, differ materially from all other Societies of Men, but how one Church, a Golden Candlestick differ from one another, but per formam, I know not, which is this that our Congregational men speak of.
In some sense we may say, the matter doth distinguish things, a lump of Gold, from a lump of Clay differs materially: but one Golden vessel differs not from another, but per formam: Christians as visible Saints or Churches constituted of such, differ materially from all other Societies of Men, but how one Church, a Golden Candlestick differ from one another, but per formam, I know not, which is this that our Congregationall men speak of.