A41334:46
A sober reply to the sober answer of Reverend Mr. Cawdrey, to A serious…
A sober reply to the sober answer of Reverend Mr. Cawdrey, to A serious question propounded viz. whether the ministers of England are bound by the word of God to baptise the children of all such parents, which say they believe in Jesus Christ, but are grossly ignorant, scandalous in their conversations, scoffers at godliness, and refuse to submit to church discipline ... : also, the question of Reverend Mr. Hooker concerning the baptism of infants : with a post-script to Reverend Mr. Blake / by G.I. Firmin ...A sober reply to the sober answer of Reverend Mr. Cawdrey, to A serious question propounded viz. whether the ministers of England are bound by the word of God to baptise the children of all such parents, which say they believe in Jesus Christ, but are grosly ignorant, scandalous in their conversations, scoffers at godliness, and refuse to submit to church dicipline ... : also, the question of Reverend Mr. Hooker concerning the baptisme of infants : with a post-script to Reverend Mr. Blake / by G.I. Firmin ...
London: printed by J.G., 1653
A SOBER REPLY TO A SOBER ANSWER, &c.A SOBER REPLY TO A SOBER ANSVVER, &c.
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
But Ministers have now power put into their hands, whereby they may reform if they will, &c. Ergo:
The Minor is clear: for what power opposes? Church power there is none above the Ministers; for the civill power that doth not oppose, but that power actually defends such Ministers, and Churches as do reform, and do deny Baptism to such scandalous ones; This favour once would have been esteemed very great: what ever we conceive of Toleration, as now it stands, yet this benefit we have by Toleration, that Ministers need not Tolerate such persons if they will. It is an ill wind, blows no body good.
The Minor is cleare: for what power opposes? Church power there is none above the Ministers; for the civill power that doth not oppose, but that power actually defends such Ministers, and Churches as doe reforme, and doe deny Baptisme to such scandalous ones; This favour once would have beene esteemed very great: what ever we conceive of Toleration, as now it stands, yet this benefit we have by Toleration, that Ministers need not Tolerate such persons if they will. It is an ill wind, blowes no body good.
But I perceive your Answer in P. 30: you tell us, of a Pope-like power ⟨p. 7⟩[…] such a Minister doth usurp, who alone shall reform though by su••ention: you suppose others will charge us with it, but whether Mr. Cawdrey will not say so also. I somewhat doubt, by observing this place and Page 20.21. I will not conclude so of him; but that he is against any Minister that shall do so, that is clear. By a Minister alone, if you mean thus, that a Minister alone without his people, or against the Christians consent shall suspend, whom he please, indeed I doubt of such a practise: but if the Members (visible Believers) shall come and bring in witness against persons, and desire to have them debarred, till they will amend, and thus they consent to their Officer in suspending. I know of no Pope-like power here usurped.