Answ. We will borrow the Argument (and give it back again) for us; no public business is to be done without the knowledge and consent of Eldership.1 Ergo, The Eldership hath the jurisdiction. 2. That all be done by their consent,2 I grant, but with these distinctions, 1. Their quiet and tacit consent, for there is not required an express consent by word of mouth of all the multitude (as of women) speaking in the Church, for they should give reasons of their consent, if an express consent be required. 2 Consent of manyest, not all, else the Churches deed should bind none absent. 3. A consent popular, not judicial, else they are all made Judges. 4. Their privity is thought a consent; how could six thousand that our Brethren make an independent Church in the Apostles time all speak. 2. All judge in Excommunication. 3▪ All reason, dispute, propone, answer, as Judges must do; here grave Beza, our Divines Calvin, Bucer, Bullinger, Melancton, Beza, Bucan, Pareus, Rivetus, Sibrandus, Junius, Treleatius, the fathers Cyprian, Jerome, Augustine, Nazianzen, Chrysostom, Ambrose, Theodoret, Theophylact require all to be done, consentiente plebe. ⟨p. 50⟩But my Brethren, what if there be a discord, and believers deny consent. In a matter of Excommunication Zepperus, 3Zanchius, Beza, Bucanus, Pareus think the Eldership should not excommunicate. 2. But what if the contagion of the not excommunicated leaven the whole lump? I see not how believers have a negative consent. 3. If the matter be a point of necessary truth to be determined, and the Pastors and Elders in the Lord and from his Word command it as a necessary truth to be obeyed, but the Believers consent not, I ask whither or not that which Watchmen command from Gods Word and authoritatively and judicially in his name, ought not to stand as an obliging Mandate and Canon, even when the Believers gain-say? Our Brethren say, the Mandate tieth and obligeth materially and in it self, but not ecclesiastically, because believers do not consent, it hath not the force of a Canon, seeing they have the keys. Ans. But this Canon (Arianism is Heresy) we suppose is all one both materially and Ecclesiastically, according to that (He that heareth you, heareth me) and so it tieth being determined by Pastors with others Synodically convened.
Answ. We will borrow the Argument (and give it back againe) for us; no publike businesse is to be done without the knowledge and consent of Eldership.1 Ergo, The Eldership hath the jurisdiction. 2. That all be done by their consent,2 I grant, but with these distinctions, 1. Their quiet and tacite consent, for there is not required an expresse consent by word of mouth of all the multitude (as of women) speaking in the Church, for they should give reasons of their consent, if an expresse consent be required. 2 Consent of manyest, not all, els the Churches deed should bind none absent. 3. A consent popular, not judiciall, els they are all made Judges. 4. Their privity is thought a consent; how could six thousand that our Bretheren make an independent Church in the Apostles time all speake. 2. All judge in Excommunication. 3▪ All reason, dispute, propone, answer, as Judges must doe; heere grave Beza, our Divines Calvine, Bucer, Bullinger, Melancton, Beza, Bucan, Pareus, Rivetus, Sibrandus, Junius, Treleatius, the fathers Cyprian, Jerome, Augustine, Nazianzen, Chrysostome, Ambrose, Theodoret, Theophylact require all to be done, consentiente plebe. ⟨p. 50⟩But my Bretheren, what if there be a discord, and beleevers deny consent. In a matter of Excommunication Zepperus, 3Zanchius, Beza, Bucanus, Pareus thinke the Eldership should not excommunicate. 2. But what if the contagion of the not excommunicated leaven the whole lump? I see not how believers have a negative consent. 3. If the matter be a point of necessary truth to be determined, and the Pastours and Elders in the Lord and from his Word command it as a necessary truth to be obeyed, but the Beleevers consent not, I aske whither or not that which Watchmen command from Gods Word and authoritatively and judicially in his name, ought not to stand as an obliging Mandat and Canon, even when the Beleevers gain-say? Our Bretheren say, the Mandat tyeth and obligeth materially and in it selfe, but not ecclesiastically, because beleevers doe not consent, it hath not the force of a Canon, seeing they have the keyes. Ans. But this Canon (Arrianisme is Heresie) we suppose is all one both materially and Ecclesiastically, according to that (Hee that heareth you, heareth me) and so it tyeth being determined by Pastours with others Synodically conveened.
- 1Beza Confess. Q. 43.Beza Confes. Q. 43.
- 2Neque enim ijs assen•ior qui non nisi ex totius Ecclesiae consensu & rogati• singulu quemqu• excommunicari volunt.
- 3Pareus Ursin, quest Catech 85. art 3. pag 47•. Si videant sequi maiora mala multos inter se dissentire, scindi Ecc•esiam, non debent procedere▪Pareus Vrsin, quest Catech 85. art 3. pag 47•. Si videant sequi maiora mala multos inter se dissentire, scindi Ecc•esiam, non debent procedere▪
