A69535:261
The grand debate between the most reverend bishops and the Presbyterian divines appointed by…
The grand debate between the most reverend bishops and the Presbyterian divines appointed by His Sacred Majesty as commissioners for the review and alteration of the Book of common prayer, &c. : being an exact account of their whole proceedings : the most perfect copy.
London printed : s.n., 1661
THE PAPERS That passed between the COMMISSIONERS Appointed by His M… › Reply
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
Reply. If you look to the time past, by our Duties we suppose you mean our Faults; For it is not Duty when it's past: If you in these words respect only the time present and to come, we Reply, 1. The Liturgy we are assured will not be a less, but a more probable means of Concord after the desired Reformation than before; the defects and inconveniences make it less fit to attain the end. 2ly. Whether the Apostle by speaking the same thing did mean either (all using this Liturgy of ours) or [all using any one form of Liturgy as to the words] may easily be determined. This is of much later date, unless you will denominate the whole form of the Lords Prayer, and some little parts. And those that affirm, that the Apostles then had any other, must undertake the task of proving it, and excusing the Churches for losing and dis-using so precious a Relict; which if preserved would have prevented all our strifes about these things. And in the mean time they must satisfy our Arguments for the Negative: As 1. If a Liturgy had been indited by the Apostles for the Churches, being by universal Officers inspired by the Holy Ghost, and so of universal use, it would have been used and preserved by the Church as the Holy Scriptures were. But so it was not. Ergo no such Liturgy, was indited by them for the Churches. 2ly. If a prescript form of words had been delivered them, there would have been no such need of exhorting them to speak the same thing, for the Liturgy would have held them close enough to that. And if the meaning had been (see that you use the same Liturgy) some word or other to some of the Churches would have acquainted us with the existence of such a thing, and some Reproofs we should have found of those that used various Liturgies, or formed Liturgies of their own, or used extemporary prayers: and some express exhortations to use the same Liturgy or Forms: But the holy Scripture is silent in all those matters: It is apparent therefore that the Churches then had no Liturgy, but took liberty of extemporate expressions, and spoke in the things of God, as men do in other matters, with a natural plainness and seriousness, suiting their expressions to the subjects and occasions.
Reply. If you look to the time past, by our Duties we suppose you mean our Faults; For it is not Duty when it's past: If you in these words respect only the time present and to come, we Reply, 1. The Liturgy we are assured will not be a less, but a more probable means of Concord after the desired Reformation than before; the defects and inconveniencies make it less fit to attain the end. 2ly. Whether the Apostle by speaking the same thing did mean either (all using this Liturgy of ours) or [all using any one form of Liturgy as to the words] may easily be determined. This is of much later date, unless you will denominate the whole form of the Lords Prayer, and some little parts. And those that affirm, that the Apostles then had any other, must undertake the task of proving it, and excusing the Churches for losing and dis-using so precious a Relict; which if preserved would have prevented all our strifes about these things. And in the mean time they must satisfie our Arguments for the Negative: As 1. If a Liturgy had been indited by the Apostles for the Churches, being by universal Officers inspired by the Holy Ghost, and so of universal use, it would have been used and preserved by the Church as the Holy Scriptures were. But so it was not. Ergo no such Liturgy, was indited by them for the Churches. 2ly. If a prescript form of words had been delivered them, there would have been no such need of exhorting them to speak the same thing, for the Liturgy would have held them close enough to that. And if the meaning had been (see that you use the same Liturgy) some word or other to some of the Churches would have acquainted us with the existence of such a thing, and some Reproofs we should have found of those that used various Liturgies, or formed Liturgies of their own, or used extemporary prayers: and some express exhortations to use the same Liturgie or Forms: But the holy Scripture is silent in all those matters: It is apparent therefore that the Churches then had no Liturgy, but took liberty of extemporate expressions, and spoke in the things of God, as men do in other matters, with a natural plainess and seriousness, suiting their expressions to the subjects and occasions.