Confirmation and restoration the necessary means of reformation, and reconciliation; for the healing of…

17. The Papists commonly confess, that Presbyters may ex dispensatione, Confirm by Imposition of hands: so Bellarmine himself. And the Shall-men ordinarily make it an act of the Presbyters Power.

17. The Papists commonly confess, that Presbyters may ex dispensatione, Confirm by Imposition of hands: so Bellarmine himself. And the Shool-men ordinarily make it an act of the Presbyters Power.

18. If it be proper to Bishops, then either because of their Order or Jurisdiction: Not of Order: For they are of the same Order with Presbyters, as is frequently confessed by Bishops and Papists themselves, and ⟨p. 264⟩differ but in degree: Not of Jurisdiction: for it is no more an act of Jurisdiction to Confirm, then to Baptize or give the Eucharist.

19 Protestant Divines are commonly agreed, that Confirmation is not proper to Bishops, but may be used by Presbyters. For 1. France, Belgia, Helvetia, Denmark, Saxony, Sweden, the Palatinate, the Countries of the Duke of Brandenburg, of the Duke of Brunswick, the Land-grave of Hassia, with the rest of the Protestant Princes of Germany, and also Hungary, Transylvania, the Protestants in Poland, &c. besides Scotland, and so many in England, are all without Bishops, having put them down: And though three or four of these countries have superintendents, yet they make not Confirmation proper to them. 2. The English Bishops, ordinarily maintain against the Papists, that Presbyters may Confirm, and therefore we have their concurrence, as in Dr. Field, Bishop Downam, Mason, and many others is apparent.

19 Protestant Divines are commonly agreed, that Confirmation is not proper to Bishops, but may be used by Presbyters. For 1. France, Belgia, Helvetia, Denmarke, Saxonie, Sweden, the Palatinate, the Countries of the Duke of Brandenburge, of the Duke of Brunswike, the Land-grave of Hassia, with the rest of the Protestant Princes of Germany, and also Hungarie, Transilvania, the Protestants in Poland, &c. besides Scotland, and so many in England, are all without Bishops, having put them down: And though three or foure of these countries have superintendents, yet they make not Confirmation proper to them. 2. The English Bishops, ordinarily maintaine against the Papists, that Presbyters may Confirm, and therefore we have their concurrance, as in Dr. Field, Bishop Downam, Mason, and many others is apparent.

Object. 16. But if Presbyters may do it, yet so cannot you; For you are no Presbyters, as wanting Episcopal Ordination: or else schismatical, as having cast them off to whom you were sworn.

Answ. 1. In my second sheet for the Ministry, and my Christian Concord, I have answered already: And for fuller answer, I refer you to the London Ministers Vindication, to Mr. Mason's Vindication of the Ordination of the Protestant Churches, &c. If Bishop Bancroft himself, as Dr. Bernard mentions, in Bishop Usher's Judgment, and the rest of the Prelates, were against the reordaining the Scots Ministers, me thinks, few should be so much more intemperate, then that intemperate Prelate, as to judge their Ordination Null. And if the Papists in the Canon Law, do judge that in some cases an excommunicate mans Ordination is valid, me thinks Protestants should ⟨p. 266⟩not be worse to the Church then they: Especially those that are for the Necessity of an uninterrupted succession of justly ordained Pastors; who must (I dare boldly say) derive their succession from unmeeter, and more uncapable hands, then English Pastors.

Answ. 1. In my second sheet for the Ministry, and my Christian Concord, I have answered already: And for fuller answer, I referre you to the London Ministers Vindication, to Mr. Mason's Vindication of the Ordination of the Protestant Churches, &c. If Bishop Bancroft himself, as Dr. Bernard mentions, in Bishop Ʋsher's Judgment, and the rest of the Prelates, were against the reordaining the Scots Ministers, me thinks, few should be so much more intemperate, then that intemperate Prelate, as to judge their Ordination Null. And if the Papists in the Canon Law, do judge that in some cases an excommunicate mans Ordination is valid, me thinks Protestants should ⟨p. 266⟩not be worse to the Church then they: Especially those that are for the Necessity of an uninterrupted succession of justly ordained Pastours; who must (I dare boldly say) derive their succession from unmeeter, and more uncapable hands, then English Pastours.

2.¹ No more is necessary to the Authority and just ordination of a Pastor, but that he enter according to the Laws of God; which Laws require us to submit to the trial, of our Rulers and Brethren, Magistrates (in some cases) and Pastors; and to come in according to the best means, for Election and Approbation, that are then to be had and used; but they bind us not to come in by ways Impossible, nor to see that our Antecessors through all generations have been lawfully ordained.

2.¹ No more is necessary to the Authority and just ordination of a Pastour, but that he enter according to the Laws of God; which Laws require us to submit to the tryal, of our Rulers and Brethren, Magistrates (in some cases) and Pastours; and to come in according to the best means, for Election and Approbation, that are then to be had and used; but they bind us not to come in by waies Impossible, nor to see that our Antecessours through all generations have been lawfully ordained.

1. 1☜

3. I have showed already, and God willing shall more fully do it, in a Disputation on that subject, that our English Episcopacy was not that which God established, but intolerably inconsistent with it: And therefore neither are men the less Ministers for being without their Ordinations, nor are they Schismatics for consenting to their deposition.

3. I have shewed already, and God willing shall more fully do it, in a Disputation on that subject, that our English Episcopcay was not that which God established, but intollerably inconsident with it: And therefore neither are men the less Ministers for being without their Ordinations, nor are they Schismaticks for consenting to their deposition.

4 As for breaking Oaths of Canonical ⟨p. 267⟩Obedience to them, I think but few among us did take any such oath, and therefore broke none.

4 As for breaking Oathes of Canonical ⟨p. 267⟩Obedience to them, I think but few among us did take any such oath, and therefore broke none.

5. Many among us were Ordained by Bishops, and some that were Ordained took not that oath: and others that did, yet obeyed them while they stood, and what could they do more.

6 The younger sort of Ministers had no hand in taking down the Bishops; and therefore are not schismatical thereby: And that their Ordination is no Nullity, Bishop Usher and other twenty Prelatical witnesses forecited will testify.

6 The younger sort of Ministers had no hand in taking down the Bishops; and therefore are not scismatical thereby: And that their Ordination is no Nullity, Bshiop Ʋsher and other twenty Prelatical witnesses forecited will testifie.

Object. 17. But on the contrary side it will be said, that you would set up the Popish Sacrament of Confirmation again.

Object. 17. But on the contrary side it will be said, that you would set up the Popish Sacrament of Confirmation againe.

Answ. The Papists have made another thing of it: They use it to Infants, and so will not we: They make a proper Sacrament of it: They make the visible signs to be Anointing and Crossing, in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost; and they make Imposition of hands no part of it, but cast it off, (though in words they own it) They adjoin a box of the ear, to signify, the opposition that Christs Soldiers must expect:¹ They make it to imprint I know not ⟨p. 268⟩what indelible Character, and to give grace ex opere operato: They make it to be an entering of us into Christs militia abusing Baptism, as being but an entering us into his Family, and not his warfare: All this is nothing to that, which I am pleading for, and which the protestant writers do wish for.

Answ. The Papists have made another thing of it: They use it to Infants, and so will not we: They make a proper Sacrament of it: They make the visible signes to be Anointing and Crossing, in the name of the Father, Sonne and Holy Ghost; and they make Imposition of hands no part of it, but cast it off, (though in words they own it) They adjoyn a boxe of the eare, to signifie, the opposition that Christs Souldiers must expect:¹ They make it to imprint I know not ⟨p. 268⟩what indelible Caracter, and to give grace ex opere operato: They make it to be an entering of us into Christs militia abusing Baptism, as being but an entering us into his Family, and not his warfare: All this is nothing to that, which I am pleading for, and which the protestant writers do wish for.

1. 1Vid. Chamier. l. 4. de Sacra. cap. 10, & 11.

Object. 18. At least you will revive the Prelatical Confirmation again, which the old non-conformists were against.

Object. 18. At least you will revive the Prelatical Confirmation againe, which the old non-conformists were against.

Answ. We will revive nothing of it, but what was good: The corruption we shall omit. They did it but on a few, (contrary to their own Laws) but we would have it used to all. They Confirmed children that understood not what they said: But we shall expect an understanding Profession of Faith. They did it in a hurry as an idle Ceremony: we would have it done deliberately and with great reverence. The Bishop only did it with them, that knew not whom he did Confirm, but ventured on other mens words, or without: But we would have the Pastor do it, that knoweth the persons, and hath time to try them, having one Parish and not two hundred to oversee.

Answ. We will revive nothing of it, but what was good: The corruption we shall omit. They did it but on a few, (contrary to their own Laws) but we would have it used to all. They Confirmed children that understood not what they said: But we shall expect an understanding Profession of Faith. They did it in a hurry as an idle Ceremony: we would have it done deliberately and with great reverence. The Bishop only did it with them, that knew not whom he did Confirm, but ventured on other mens words, or without: But we would have the Pastour do it, that knoweth the persons, and hath time to try them, having one Parish and not two hundred to oversee.

Object. But, at least, the Papists and Prelates will be hardened or encouraged by your coming so near them.

Object. But, at least, the Papists and Prelats will be hardened or encouraged by your coming so neare them.