A92287:115
The reasons of the Dissenting Brethren against the third proposition, concerning presbyterial government· Humbly presented.
London: printed by G.M. for Ralph Smith, 1645
Title page typeset from the transcription.
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
Lastly, although these false Teachers had subverted their faith, and against their own light, had avouched their Doctrine to be the doctrine of the Apostles, which deserved the highest censure being a sin so scandalous, yet they proceeded not to censure them by way of admonition or excommunication (which are acts of government) but only do declare their sin and error, and give their Judgement of it. Whereas in the close of the proof from the Church of Jerusalem for many Congregations to be under one Presbyterial government, it is asserted whether these Congregations be fixed or not fixed it is all one to the truth of the proposition; this reason is offered against it. There is this difference, every Congregation having Elders fixed to it is a Church; for the relation of Elders and Church is mutual, Acts 14. 23. They ordained Elders in every Church; This relation of Elders to a Church is a special distinct relation to that Congregation of which they are Elders, so as they are not related to other Congregations, and these Congregations are Ecclesiae primae, Churches formed up though uncompleat, as being according to our Brethren's opinion, members of a more general Presbyterial Church.
Lastly, although these false Teachers had subverted their faith, and against their owne light, had avouched their Doctrine to bee the doctrine of the Apostles, which deserved the highest censure being a sinne so scandalous, yet they proceeded not to censure them by way of admonition or excommunication (which are acts of government) but onely do declare their sinne and errour, and give their Judgement of it. Whereas in the close of the proofe from the Church of Jerusalem for many Congregations to bee under one Presbyteriall government, it is asserted whether these Congregations bee fixed or not fixed it is all one to the truth of the proposition; this reason is offered against it. There is this difference, every Congregation having Elders fixed to it is a Church; for the relation of Elders and Church is mutuall, Acts 14. 23. They ordained Elders in every Church; This relation of Elders to a Church is a speciall distinct relation to that Congregation of which they are Elders, so as they are not related to other Congregations, and these Congregations are Ecclesiae primae, Churches formed up though uncompleat, as being according to our Brethrens opinion, members of a more generall Presbyteriall Church.
But if Congregations have no fixed Officers they are not Churches according to their Principles. Now it makes a great difference as to the truth of the Proposition, whether many Churches may be under the government of one, or whether many Congregations which to them are no Churches ⟨p. 37⟩may be under the government of one? Whatsoever our Brethren show of divers Congregations to be under the government of a Church Presbyterial, yet they no where show any one pattern or example in Scripture wherein many Churches were under the power of one, nay nor where any one Church was under the power of another.
But if Congregations have no fixed Officers they are not Churches according to their Principles. Now it makes a great difference as to the truth of the Proposition, whether many Churches may bee under the government of one, or whether many Congregations which to them are no Churches ⟨p. 37⟩may bee under the government of one? Whatsoever our Brethren shew of divers Congregations to bee under the government of a Church Presbyteriall, yet they no where shew any one patterne or example in Scripture wherein many Churches were under the power of one, nay nor where any one Church was under the power of another.
And lastly, if there were many Congregations in Jerusalem, having their Officers fixed to them, and not in common, then during the time before the dispersion the Apostles must be those Officers that were thus fixedly disposed of to those several Congregations, some over one, others over another, as ordinary Elders now are. Now suppose this number of Believers to have been as many thousands as is argued, at 10. or 12000. souls, and these to be divided into as many Congregations as might be divided to twelve Apostles severally to watch over; Or suppose the several Congregations made up of 2000. (which is an allotment small enough to be set apart for the pains of two Apostles.
And lastly, if there were many Congregations in Jerusalem, having their Officers fixed to them, and not in common, then during the time before the dispersion the Apostles must bee those Officers that were thus fixedly disposed of to those severall Congregations, some over one, others over another, as ordinary Elders now are. Now suppose this number of Beleevers to have beene as many thousands as is argued, at 10. or 12000. soules, and these to bee divided into as many Congregations as might bee divided to twelve Apostles severally to watch over; Or suppose the severall Congregations made up of 2000. (which is an alotment small enough to bee set apart for the paines of two Apostles.
Hereupon great incongruity doth follow, that Apostles are brought to the state and condition and work of Parish Ministers, to whom yet it was committed, and inseparably annexed to their Office, yea and constituted it, as Apostles, to have the care of all Churches; and if when the Churches were multiplied and dispersed into several Countries, they were to have the care of them, then much more when they were in one City. Some of the writers against Episcopacy, (when those that write for it allege the instance of James abiding at Jerusalem, as the Bishop of that Church) have judged it a debasing of the Apostolical power to limit it to one Diocesan Church: but this position doth debase all the Apostles at once, much more it makes them not Bishops to many Churches, but ordinary Elders, in that one or two of them perhaps, are over one single Church; yea, and which is yet more incredible, if these Churches and their government were like to those under the Presbytery, and no material difference between them and ours, these Apostles were in their several Parishes not only subordinate in their government to the common Presbytery of all the Apostles, but limited to lesser Acts of government, for so the lesser Elderships in the Churches under the Presbyterial government are confined only to examine, and admonish, and prepare for the greater Presbytery, and therein not enabled to ordain Elders over the Congregation, or excommunicate a member: Peter and John joined together were by this principle not enabled to it. And yet if we do not suppose such a limited government in those several Congregations, here can be no pattern for the Presbyterian government as it is practised. Or if otherwise we should suppose them fixed Officers for teaching only to one of those Congregations, and to have no government at all over it, but ⟨p. 38⟩to bring all to the common Presbytery of Apostles, that is a greater incongruity then the former; for this casts them below the condition of our Parish Elders, for unto them the greater Presbytery doth allow some measure and part of the Government, but such a supposition would allow Apostles none in their several Congregations.
BY particular Congregations either first an Assembly of Christians meeting for worship only, as to hear, pray, &c. or secondly, an Assembly so furnished with Officers as fit for Discipline having a Presbytery, is meant; in the latter sense, which is that the proofs are brought to confirm, and that that is practised where this government is set up, the proposition is equivalent to such an assertion as this▪ Many Presbyteries may be under one Presbyterial government, as thus, many Parochial Presbyteries may be under one Classical, many Classical, under one Provincial, &c. which is the same as to affirm that one Presbytery may be over another, as the Bishops affirm. That one Presbyter may be over another, this is evident, if you assert a Presbyterial government may be over a Congregation that is composed of a Presbytery and people: for it cannot be said to be over a Congregation, if it be over the people only, that is not over their Presbytery also, for then the Presbytery will be Independent, and the people under two Presbyteries coordinate and not subordinate, which stands not with common reason.
BY particular Congregations either first an Assembly of Christians meeting for worship onely, as to heare, pray, &c. or secondly, an Assembly so furnished with Officers as fit for Discipline having a Presbytery, is meant; in the latter sense, which is that the proofs are brought to confirme, and that that is practised where this government is set up, the proposition is equivalent to such an assertion as this▪ Many Presbyteries may bee under one Presbyteriall government, as thus, many Parochiall Presbyteries may bee under one Classicall, many Classicall, under one Provinciall, &c. which is the same as to affirme that one Presbytery may bee over another, as the Bishops affirme. That one Presbyter may bee over another, this is evident, if you assert a Presbyteriall government may bee over a Congregation that is composed of a Presbytery and people: for it cannot bee said to bee over a Congregation, if it bee over the people onely, that is not over their Presbytery also, for then the Presbytery will be Independent, and the people under two Presbyteries coordinate and not subordinate, which stands not with common reason.
This then being the Assertion, it is thus argued against. A Presbytery over a Presbytery, or power over power necessarily implieth two sorts of Presbyteries, or Ecclesiastical Jurisdictions, specifically distinct or at least more then numerically. A greater or lesser vary not the kind in a Physical or Theological consideration, but in a Political it doth; He that hath a greater power then I have, that is a power over my power, a power to order, direct or correct the power I have, this mans power and mine differ as two sorts or kinds of power. And although this superior Presbytery be made up of Presbyters sent as Commissioners from the congregational or parochial Presbyteries, yet this hinders not at all but that they may be thus ⟨p. 39⟩distinct; For some Cities and towns corporate their Officers are sent up, & sit as Members of Parliament, yet this Honourable House hath a power distinct▪ and superior to that which is in London or York, though the superior Presbytery be made up of Presbyters from several Congregations, yet it is not made up of Presbyteries, it hath the persons materially considered, but not that power formally considered: for as while the Parliament sits and certain Burgesses from Borough towns sit as Members in it, these Townes notwithstanding still retain all the power those Corporations were ever invested with; so particular Congregations whilst some of their Elders sit in the Classical Presbytery, have Elderships or a Presbytery still. Now that it is very probable the Scripture holds not forth two sorts of Presbyteries thus specifically distinct, may be thus argued.
This then being the Assertion, it is thus argued against. A Presbytery over a Presbytery, or power over power necessarily implyeth two sorts of Presbyteries, or Ecclesiasticall Jurisdictions, specifically distinct or at least more then numerically. A greater or lesser vary not the kind in a Physicall or Theologicall consideration, but in a Politicall it doth; Hee that hath a greater power then I have, that is a power over my power, a power to order, direct or correct the power I have, this mans power and mine differ as two sorts or kinds of power. And although this superior Presbytery bee made up of Presbyters sent as Commissioners from the congregationall or parochiall Presbyteries, yet this hinders not at all but that they may bee thus ⟨p. 39⟩distinct; For some Cities and townes corporate their Officers are sent up, & sit as Members of Parliament, yet this Honorable House hath a power distinct and superior to that which is in London or Yorke, though the superior Presbytery bee made up of Presbyters from severall Congregations, yet it is not made up of Presbyteries, it hath the persons materially considered, but not that power formally considered: for as while the Parliament sits and certaine Burgesses from Burrough townes sit as Members in it, these Townes notwithstanding still retaine all the power those Corporations were ever invested with; so particular Congregations whilst some of their Elders sit in the Classicall Presbytery, have Elderships or a Presbytery still. Now that it is very probable the Scripture holds not forth two sorts of Presbyteries thus specifically distinct, may bee thus argued.
First, where the Scripture holds forth distinct sorts in any kind, there will be found either distinct and proper names and titles, or at least some adjunct or difference added to that which is common or general; In the Apostles times there were Presbyters over Presbyters, Apostles were superior to Prophets, and Prophets a distinct order from Teachers▪ Therefore in 1▪ Corinth. 12. God hath set some in the Church: First Apostles, secondarily Prophets, thirdly Teachers, after that Miracles, then gifts of Healings, &c. They have not only particular names and titles, but special notes of distinction added, [Greek or Hebrew], as in Genesis 1. where no distinction in names is given, The Sun, Moon, and Stars of Heaven, are all called Lights, yet there are terms of difference added, they are called first great Lights, and then the greater to rule the day, and the lesser to rule the night.
First, where the Scripture holds forth distinct sorts in any kinde, there will bee found either distinct and proper names and titles, or at least some adjunct or difference added to that which is common or generall; In the Apostles times there were Presbyters over Presbyters, Apostles were superior to Prophets, and Prophets a distinct order from Teachers▪ Therefore in 1▪ Corinth. 12. God hath set some in the Church: First Apostles, secondarily Prophets, thirdly Teachers, after that Miracles, then gifts of Healings, &c. They have not onely particular names and titles, but speciall notes of distinction added, 〈non-Latin alphabet〉, as in Genesis 1. where no distinction in names is given, The Sunne, Moon, and Starres of Heaven, are all called Lights, yet there are termes of difference added, they are called first great Lights, and then the greater to rule the day, and the lesser to rule the night.
Throughout the New Testament we find this word [Greek or Hebrew], but in three places, whereof there is but one that holdeth out the Government in hand, and in that place you have the naked word only without the addition of any such expression, greater, lesser, superior, inferior, or any kind of adjunct, that can possibly put a thought in us, of more Presbyteries then one. Notwithstanding so useful are peculiar distinct names where there are distinct sorts or kinds of administration, as it is not omitted by any Church in their Ordinances for Government; in Scotland the lowest is termed a Consistory, the next a Classis or Presbytery, the third a Provincial Synod, the fourth a General Assembly. The French in these terms, Consistories, and Colloquel, and Synods: so in the Episcopal Republic there was the like variety.
Throughout the New Testament wee finde this word 〈non-Latin alphabet〉, but in three places, whereof there is but one that holdeth out the Government in hand, and in that place you have the naked word onely without the addition of any such expression, greater, lesser, superiour, inferior, or any kinde of adjunct, that can possibly put a thought in us, of more Presbyteries then one. Notwithstanding so usefull are peculiar distinct names where there are distinct sorts or kindes of administration, as it is not omitted by any Church in their Ordinances for Government; in Scotland the lowest is termed a Consistory, the next a Classis or Presbytery, the third a Provinciall Synod, the fourth a Generall Assembly. The French in these termes, Consistories, and Colloquel, and Synods: so in the Episcopall Republique there was the like varietie.
Secondly, As the Scriptures hold forth nothing in any title or name to ⟨p. 40⟩distinguish, no more can we thence discover any sorts of Government different in nature; for trial of this, let it be supposed there is a Parochial or Consistorian Presbytery for one sort, there is another sort we call Classical, what Scripture gives light by any kind of reasoning to warrant the setting up one of those above, or over the other? Do you read any where God hath set in his Church, first Presbyteries, secondarily Classes, then Consistories? Or is there any thing in the word directing a different composition or constitution in these?
Secondly, As the Scriptures hold forth nothing in any title or name to ⟨p. 40⟩distinguish, no more can wee thence discover any sorts of Government different in nature; for tryall of this, let it bee supposed there is a Parochiall or Consistorian Presbytery for one sort, there is another sort wee call Classicall, what Scripture gives light by any kinde of reasoning to warrant the setting up one of those above, or over the other? Doe you read any where God hath set in his Church, first Presbyteries, secondarily Classes, then Consistories? Or is there any thing in the word directing a different composition or constitution in these?
First, For the materiale, the Persons that these Presbyteries are made up of, are the same; The Consistory hath gifted men set apart to the Office of the Ministry; Those that are in a Classical Presbytery are no otherwise qualified, nor indeed doth the Scripture require any thing but a Presbyteration to qualify men for any sort, if there were sorts of Presbytery.
First, For the materiale, the Persons that these Presbyteries are made up of, are the same; The Consistory hath gifted men set apart to the Office of the Ministery; Those that are in a Classicall Presbytery are no otherwise qualifyed, nor indeed doth the Scripture require any thing but a Presbyteration to qualifie men for any sort, if there were sorts of Presbytery.
Hereupon great incongruitie doth follow, that Apostles are brought to the state and condition and worke of Parish Ministers, to whom yet it was committed, and inseparably annexed to their Office, yea and constituted it, as Apostles, to have the care of all Churches; and if when the Churches were multiplyed and dispersed into severall Countries, they were to have the care of them, then much more when they were in one Citie. Some of the writers against Episcopacie, (when those that write for it alledg the instance of James abiding at Jerusalem, as the Bishop of that Church) have judged it a debasing of the Apostolicall power to limit it to one Diocesan Church: but this position doth debase all the Apostles at once, much more it makes them not Bishops to many Churches, but ordinary Elders, in that one or two of them perhaps, are over one single Church; yea, and which is yet more incredible, if these Churches and their government were like to those under the Presbytery, and no materiall difference betweene them and ours, these Apostles were in their severall Parishes not onely subordinate in their government to the common Presbytery of all the Apostles, but limited to lesser Acts of government, for so the lesser Elderships in the Churches under the Presbyteriall government are confined onely to examine, and admonish, and prepare for the greater Presbytery, and therein not enabled to ordaine Elders over the Congregation, or excommunicate a member: Peter and John joyned together were by this principle not enabled to it. And yet if we doe not suppose such a limited government in those severall Congregations, here can bee no patterne for the Presbyterian government as it is practised. Or if otherwise wee should suppose them fixed Officers for teaching onely to one of those Congregations, and to have no government at all over it, but ⟨p. 38⟩to bring all to the common Presbytery of Apostles, that is a greater incongruitie then the former; for this casts them below the condition of our Parish Elders, for unto them the greater Presbytery doth allow some measure and part of the Government, but such a supposition would allow Apostles none in their severall Congregations.
