Th'overthrow of stage-plays, by the way of controversy betwixt D. Gager and D. Rainoldes…Th'overthrow of stage-playes, by the way of controversie betwixt D. Gager and D. Rainoldes…
Th'overthrow of stage-plays, by the way of controversy betwixt D. Gager and D. Rainoldes wherein all the reasons that can be made for them are notably refuted; th'objections answered, and the case so cleared and resolved, as that the judgement of any man, that is not froward and perverse, may easily be satisfied. Wherein is manifestly proved, that it is not only unlawful to be an actor, but a beholder of those vanities. Whereunto are added also and annexed in th'end certain latin letters betwixt the said Master Rainoldes, and D. Gentiles, reader of the civill law in Oxford, concerning the same matter.Th'overthrow of stage-playes, by the way of controversie betwixt D. Gager and D. Rainoldes wherein all the reasons that can be made for them are notably refuted; th'objections aunswered, and the case so cleared and resolved, as that the iudgement of any man, that is not froward and perverse, may easelie be satisfied. Wherein is manifestly proved, that it is not onely vnlawfull to bee an actor, but a beholder of those vanities. Wherevnto are added also and annexed in th'end certeine latine letters betwixt the sayed Maister Rainoldes, and D. Gentiles, reader of the civill law in Oxford, concerning the same matter.
John Rainolds 1549–1607Middelburg: printed by Richard Schilders, 1599
[8], 163, [1], 164-190, [1] p. · 74k words · STC 20616 · ESTC S115568
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
As for the worshipful, and sometimes honourable presence at your plays, you might seem to press it against me with more credit, ⟨p. 153⟩if honourable and worshipful persons never used to grace any plays, save only yours, with their presence. But if they be present at common plays also, such as our University-statute banisheth hence, and your self make offer that 3you will join with me in writing against the players thereof, if I will: consider with your self what you would answer to this argument alleged by those players, and let the same serve on my behalf to yours. For a supply whereof I add, that worthy personages, who, upon entreaty, become your spectators, perhaps think with Plato, that the seeing of Comedies played can do no harm, of tragedies may be dangerous; perhaps incline to Aristotle, that they both may safely be seen by elder folk, not by younger: and so, though them selves behold one, or both, yet do they warrant neither of the points you strive for; I mean, that either students of Christ-church may be actors, or the youth of Oxford spectators of your plays. xThere were at Vienna, in the time of Trajan the Emperor, by some bodies last will and testament, certain solemn games and shows set forth yearly: 4the which, as Pliny saith, had stained the manners of the inhabitants of that city, in like sort as the games & shows set forth at Rome had stained the manners of all the world. This corruption of manners was not bred by other exercises and masteries tried, in those games, but by the stage-plays, as a ylearned man of your profession judgeth: and zPlinies own speech, concerning sundry kinds of games among the Romans, maketh it most probable, that he meant, the corruption grew from stage-plays chiefly, if not from them alone.
As for the worshipfull, and sometimes honorable presence at your playes, you might seeme to presse it against me with more credit,
if honorable and worshipfull persons never vsed to grace any playes, saue onely yours, with their presence. But if they be present at common playes also, such as our Vniversitie-statute banisheth hence, and your selfe make offer that
you will ioyne with me in writing aginst the players thereof, if I will: consider with your selfe what you would aunswere to this argument alleaged by those players, and let the same serve on my behalfe to yours. For a supply whereof I adde, that worthy personages, who, vpon intreatty, become your spectators, perhaps thinke with Plato, that the seeing of Comedies played can doe no harme, of tragedies may be dangerous; perhaps incline to Aristotle, that they both may safely bee seene by elder folke, not by younger: and so, though them selves beholde one, or both, yet doe they warrant neither of the pointes you strive for; I meane, that either students of Christ-church may bee actors, or the youth of Oxford spectators of your playes.
There were at Uienna, in the time of Traian the Emperour, by some bodyes last will and testament, certaine solemne games and shewes sett foorth yearely:
the which, as Plinie saith, had stained the maners of the inhabitants of that citie, in like sort as the games & shewes sett foorth at Rome had stained the maners of all the world. This corruption of maners was not bredde by other exercises and masteries tried, in those games, but by the stage-playes, as a
Plinies owne speech, concerning sundry kindes of games among the Romans, maketh it most probable, that he meant, the corruption grew from stage-playes chiefly, if not from them alone.
3Histrioniam ipsam vel tecum accusabo, si voles.
xPliny epistolar. lib. […]. ep. 22. ad Sempronium Rufum.Plini epistolar. lib. 〈…〉. ep. 22. ad Sempronium Rufum.
4Placuit ag• na tolli, qui mores Viennensium infecerat, ut noster hic omnium.Placuit ag• na tolli, qui mores Viennensium infecerat, vt noster hic omnium.
But when the Uiennians plays were taken away by Trebonius Rufinus, a governor of theirs, and he was accused to the Emperor for it: Junius Mauricus, a grave and faithful Counsellor, being asked by the Emperor, what he thought thereof, said, 5it was not meet the plays should be restored again to the Viennians; adding, 6I would to God they might be taken away at Rome too. Which corollary of his sentence touching plays at Rome, it may be, that as 7Pliny liked very well of, so the Emperor did: albeit he gave order for the not restoring of the Uiennians only; and yet showed great mislike of plays therein ⟨p. 154⟩also, forbidding that to be done which by ones atestament was required. Deceive not your self, Master D. Gager, with a vain conceit, as if, because a Prince, far and far more excellent then Trajan, though surnamed 8most virtuous, with Her counsellors and Nobles more honourable then Mauricus, did vouchsafe the last year to see that Comedy played, which being played a few months before I reproved, therefore you had gained against me the matter in question between us. Her Majesty with their Honours, & Commons of the realm, having made an Act of Parliament blong since, and csith that time renewed it, that common players in interludes, not licensed by special authority to go abroad, shall be adjudged rogues and vagabonds, hath taken away more plays, and in more places, then Trajan did by giving order that they should not be used again at Vienna. Whether the taking of them away at Oxford too, have been wished by any of the Counsellors, who might be notwithstanding present with her Highness, as Pliny & Mauricus of likelihood were with Trajan at the plays in Rome: you and I are not so near of their counsel, that we can define. But thus much I may say, and say it upon knowledge, that, if your Comedy had still as homely speeches (to say no worse) as it had when your dprologue praised it, there is greater cause why you should fear the check which 9Augustus gave one (were not our Augusta the more gracious to us) for presuming to play it before a presence of such honour: then why you should mention to the credit of your plays, and to my discredit, that they are things done by you, in a worshipful, and sometimes honourable presence.
But when the Uiennians playes were taken away by Trebonius Rufinus, a governour of theirs, and he was accused to the Emperour for it: Iunius Mauricus, a graue and faithfull Counseller, being asked by the Emperour, what he thought thereof, said, 5it was not meete the playes should be restored againe to the Viennians; adding, 6I would to God they might be taken away at Rome too. Which corollarie of his sentence touching playes at Rome, it may bee, that as 7Plinie liked very well of, so the Emperour did: albeit he gave order for the not restoring of the Uiennians onely; and yet shewed great mislike of playes therein ⟨p. 154⟩also, forbidding that to bee done which by ones atestament was required. Deceve not your selfe, Maister D. Gager, with a vaine conceit, as if, because a Prince, farre and farre more excellent then Traian, though surnamed 8most vertuous, with Her counsellers and Nobles more honorable then Mauricus, did vouchsafe the last yeare to see that Comedie played, which being played a few moonths before I reprooved, therefore you had gained against me the matter in question betwene vs. Her Maiestie with their Honors, & Commons of the realme, having made an Act of Parlament blong since, and csith that time renewed it, that common players in enterludes, not licensed by speciall autoritie to goe abrode, shall bee adiudged rogues and vagabonds, hath taken away more playes, and in more places, then Traian did by giving order that they should not bee vsed againe at Vienna. Whether the taking of them away at Oxford too, haue bene wished by any of the Counsellers, who might bee notwithstanding present with her Highnes, as Plinie & Mauricus of likelyhoode were with Trajan at the playes in Rome: you and I are not so neere of their counsell, that we can define. But thus much I may say, and say it vpon knowledge, that, if your Comedie had still as homely speeches (to say no worse) as it had when your dprologue praysed it, there is greater cause why you should feare the checke which
5Non esse restituendū Viennensibus agôna.Non esse restituendū Viennensibus agôna.
6Vellem etiam Romae tolli posset.
7Viennensium vitia intra ipsos residunt: nostra late vagantur. Utque in corporibus, si• imperio gravissinus est morbus, qui à capite d• funditur.Viennensium vitia intra ipsos residunt: nostra late vagantur. Vtque in corporibus, si• imperio gravissinus est morbus, qui à capite d• funditur.
aL. ult in sin. c. de fideicomm. Nov. 1. in praefat. §. Semper.
8Optimus, Plin. locis citatis; & Dio, Trajan. Xiphilini epit.
b14 Eliz. ca. 5
c35 Eliz. ca. 7
dPrologue. in Rivals comaediam: actam Febr. 1591.Prolog. in Rivales comaediam: actam Febr. 1591.
9Non putabā me tibi tam familiarem. Macrob. Saturn. lib. 2. cap. 4.Non putabā me tibi tam familiarem. Macrob. Saturn. lib. 2. cap. 4.
But reverend, famous, excellent men, for life, and learning (you say) and for their places in the Church of God, have been not only writers of such things themselves, but also actors; and to this day do think well of them: to whom it were a great reproach (thus you amplify it) at any time to have been acquainted with things of so vile & base quality; & much more, still to allow of them. eWhen the Donatists praised St 1Cyprian's life, and learning, and spake of 2his place in the church of God, to countenance their error by the reputation of such a Bishop and Martyr, ⟨p. 155⟩S. Austin, answering them, said that 3the authority of Cyprian did not dismay him, because the humility of Cyprian did relieve him. Which as Austin said, considering how fCyprian had set down in writing, that Peter, whom the Lord chose his gfirst Apostle, and hupon whom he built his Church, did not, when iPaul afterward grew to question with him touching circumcision, take proudly on him self, to say that he had the prerogative of being first, and that new-sprung and later-come ought rather to obey him; neither despised he Paul for khaving been a persecutor of the Church before, but yielded to the advise of truth, and easily approved the rightful way, which Paul contended for; giving us a lesson of peaceableness, and patience, that we should not obstinately love our own conceits; but such things as sometimes are profitably and wholesomely showed us by our brethren and fellows in office, those should we account of as our own rather, if they be true and rightful: whereunto Paul having a careful eye also, and Christianly providing for concord and peace, said, lLet the Prophets speak, two or three, and let the rest judge; and if any thing be revealed to an other that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace; teaching therein that many things are revealed better to particular persons; and that every one, if any thing be found better and more profitable, ought gladly to embrace it, not obstinately to strive for that which he hath once conceived and maintained: as these points (I say) noted thus by Cyprian made mAustin be persuaded of him, that seeing he knew, he might more easily err then Peter, he would have been very well content to change his mind, if any man by 4Scripture had proved him to be overseen, or 5the Church had sifted the truth in a general Council, and agreed of it;
But reverend, famous, excellent men, for life, and learning (you say) and for their places in the Church of God, have bene not onely writers of such thinges themselves, but also actors; and to this day doe thinke well of them: to whom it were a great reproche (thus you amplifie it) at any time to have bene acquainted with things of so vile & base qualitie; & much more, still to allow of thē. eWhen the Donatists praysed St 1Cyprians life, and learning, and spake of 2his place in the church of God, to countenance their errour by the reputation of such a Bishop and Martyr, ⟨p. 155⟩S. Austin, answering thē, said that 3the autoritie of Cyprian did not dismay him, because the humilitie of Cyprian did relieve him. Which as Austin saide, considering how fCyprian had sett down in writing, that Peter, whom the Lord chose his gfirst Apostle, and hvpon whom he built his Church, did not, when iPaul afterward grew to question with him touching circumcision, take proudly on him selfe, to say that hee had the prerogative of beeing first, and that new-sprong and later-come ought rather to obey him; neither despised he Paul for khaving bene a persequuter of the Church before, but yeelded to the advise of truth, and easily approoved the rightfull way, which Paul contended for; giving vs a lesson of peaceablenes, and patience, that wee should not obstinately loue our owne conceits; but such things as sometimes are profitably and holesomly shewed vs by our brethren and felowes in office, those should we account of as our owne rather, if they bee true and rightfull: whervnto Paul having a carefull eye also, and Christianly providing for concord and peace, said, lLet the Prophets speake, two or three, and let the rest iudge; and if any thing be reveiled to an other that sitteth by, lett the first holde his peace; teaching therein that many things are reveiled better to particular persons; and that every one, if any thing bee found better and more profitable, ought gladly to embrace it, not obstinately to striue for that which hee hath once conceived and mainteined: as these points (I say) noted thus by Cyprian made
eAugust. de bapt. contr. Donatist. lib. 2. cap. 1.
1Cyprianus, cujus tantum meritum novimus, tantā que doctrinā.Cyprianus, cujus tantum meritum novimus, tantā que doctrinā.
2Cum coëpiscopis suis.
3Non me deterret autoritas Cypriani, quia reficit humilitas Cypriani.
4Satis ostendit, facillimè see correcturū fuisse sententiam suam, si quis ei demonstraret, and so forth; meaning this kind of proof, as appeareth by that he addeth, undè multa jam diximus, con pared with yt he pointeth to, lib. 1. ca. 7. & by Cypri. ep. 47. ad Pompeium.Satis ostendit, facillimè se correcturū fuisse sententiam suam, si quis ei demonstraret, and so forth; meaning this kinde of proofe, as appeereth by that hee addeth, vndè multa jam diximus, cō pared with yt hee pointeth to, lib. 1. ca. 7. & by Cypri. ep. 47. ad Pompeium.
5Gu• & ipse sine dubio cederet, si jam illo tempore quaestionis hu jus veritas eliquata & declarata per plenariū concilium solidaretur.Gu• & ipse sine dubio cederet, si jam illo tempore quaestionis hu ius veritas eliquata & declarata per plenariū concilium solidaretur.
so the knowledge of the same engraven in those learned and godly men, whom you speak of, induceth me to think that when they shall have weighed what grounds of Gods word, what consent of the Church, what Councils, what Fathers, impugn their opinion, they will not approve your obstinate striving for it. It may be, that they will mislike of your art too, in that, for the surer uniting of them to you, and stirring them up against me, you do not only affirm that they are exceedingly tainted in honour, if plays, which they ⟨p. 156⟩allow of, be justly disallowed by me: but also, that it were a great reproach to them, though not so exceedingly great, as is the other, yet a great reproach, at any time to have been acquainted with things of so vile and base quality. For why? Is the writing of Comedies, or tragedies, but what speak I of writing? in mentioning whereof your art appeareth farther, sith I condemned it not: is the playing of them made by me a thing of so vile and base quality, as persecuting, or blaspheming? Yet Saint Paul thought it no great disgrace for him, nin former time to have been a blasphemer, and a persecutor, when ohe was now become a faithful minister of Christ: no more then for the Romans pto have been slaves of sin, when they did now obey the doctrine of the Gospel; or for Abraham qto have been in the land of Chaldea & served other Gods there; when rhe came now to Canaan. and sserved there the Lord. Not, tto have been evil, is a reproach; but to be. Again, what reason have you to say that a much greater reproach it were to them, still to allow of plays: when you commend St Cyprian as a man of singular godliness, and zeal, vwho did more then allow, an other manner of matter then plays, even rebaptizing of men baptized by heretics? For as he followed xhis predecessors in this error, and therefore was the more excusable: so had the reverend men, whom you allege, their predecessors that trained them to the liking of plays. Neither is it probable that they have been advertised of their oversight by any such mans writing, as Cyprian was by yStephanus. And zCyprian continued in his error still, notwithstanding that advertisement: how know you that they have not changed their opinion? Or, if they have not changed it, they may ere they dye:
so the knowledge of the same engraven in those learned and godlie men, whom you speake of, induceth me to thinke that when they shall haue weighed what grounds of Gods woord, what consent of the Church, what Councels, what Fathers, impugne their opinion, they will not approove your obstinat striving for it. It may bee, that they will mislike of your art too, in that, for the surer vniting of them to you, and stirring them vpp against mee, you doe not onelie affirme that they are exceedinglie tainted in honour, if playes, which they ⟨p. 156⟩allow of, bee iustlie disallowed by mee: but also, that it were a great reproche to them, though not so exceedingly great, as is the other, yet a great reproch, at any time to haue bene acquainted with things of so vile and base qualitie. For why? Is the writing of Comedies, or tragedies, but what speake I of writing? in mentioning whereof your art appeereth farther, sith I condemned it not: is the playing of them made by mee a thing of so vile and base qualitie, as persequuting, or blaspheming? Yet Saint Paul thought it no great disgrace for him, nin former time to have bene a blaspemer, and a persequuter, when ohe was now become a faithfull minister of Christ: no more then for the Romans pto haue bene slaves of sinne, when they did now obey the doctrine of the Gospell; or for Abraham qto haue bene in the land of Chaldaea & served other Gods there; when rhe came now to Chanaan. and sserved there the Lord. Not, tto haue bene evill, is a reproche; but to bee. Againe, what reason have you to say that a much greater reproch it were to them, still to allow of playes: when you commend St Cyprian as a man of singular godlines, and zeale, vwho did more then allow, an other maner of matter then playes, even rebaptizing of men baptized by heretikes? For as he folowed x
which none is able to say that Cyprian did, for ought that aAustin could find, a man most likely to have found it, had there been ought that could have showed it. Wherefore it savoureth strongly of a bad quality, that you would persuade them, they must by my judgement be noted and disgraced with a foul exceeding great reproach and infamy, if they allow of plays still. Much worse doeth it savour, that you bear them in hand, although their minds should alter and think hereof when they pray, bRemember ⟨p. 157⟩not, O Lord; the sins of my youth, it must be nevertheless a great reproach unto them, at any time to have been acquainted with the writing and playing of such matters. But what quality, nay, what canker shall I say it savoureth of, that, unto the Prophets, whose judgement and authority the cspirits of these Prophets were likely to be moved with, I mean, unto the Fathers and Councils laid in balance by me against your testimonies, you reply, that, if they be rightly understood, their forces are not bent against you; Whereas your own pen telleth you, that you know the contrary. For, the first and greatest Council that I quoted, is dthat general Council of Constantinople, which (grounding it self upon the place of Deuteronomy) noteth mens wearing of women's raiment in plays as a heinous crime. Now this to make against you, even being rightly understood, your self did acknowledge when I alleged it afore: in so much that you opposed thereunto the opinion of others interpreting that text otherwise then the Council doeth. The same did you likewise confess of sundry Fathers upon the same occasion, & namely of Saint Cyprian; whom here notwithstanding you do namely mention as making not against you: yea, whom you moreover do set down for a special pattern of the rest, to infer the general, that none of all the Fathers or Councils do reprove your plays. For, Saint eCyprian (say you) inveigheth most eloquently and godly against the abuses of the 6tragic buskin in his time. So he doeth also against the evils of war, of judgement seats, of judges, of advocates, of gold, and riches. Shall we therefore conclude there should be no war, no tribunals, no judges, no advocates, no gold, no riches; and likewise no tragic buskin in any sort? Whereupon you add;
which none is able to say that Cyprian did, for ought that aAustin could finde, a man most likely to haue found it, had there bene ought that could haue shewed it. Wherefore it savoureth stronglie of a bad qualitie, that you would perswade them, they must by my iudgement bee noted and disgraced with a fowle exceeding great reproche and infamie, if they allow of playes still. Much woorse doeth it savour, that you beare them in hand, although their mindes should alter and thinke hereof when they praye, bRemember ⟨p. 157⟩not, O Lord; the sinnes of my youth, it must bee neverthelesse a great reproche vnto them, at anie time to have bene acquainted with the writing and playing of such matters. But what qualitie, nay, what canker shall I say it savoureth of, that, vnto the Prophets, whose iudgement and autoritie the cspirits of these Prophets were likely to be mooved with, I meane, vnto the Fathers and Councels laid in balance by me against your testimonies, you reply, that, if they be rightly vnderstoode, their forces are not bent against you; Whereas your owne penne telleth you, that you know the contrary. For, the first and greatest Councell that I quoted, is dthat generall Councell of Constantinople, which (grounding it selfe vpō the place of Deuteronomie) noteth mens wearing of wemens raiment in playes as a heinous crime. Now this to make against you, euen being rightly vnderstoode, your selfe did acknowledge whē I alleaged it afore: in so much that you opposed therevnto the opinion of others interpreting that text otherwise then the Councell doeth. The same did you likewise confesse of sundry Fathers vpon the same occasion, & namely of Saint Cyprian; whom here notwithstāding you doe namelie mention as making not against you: yea, whom you moreover doe sett downe for a speciall paterne of the rest, to inferre the generall, that none of all the Fathers or Councells doe reproove your playes. For, Saint eCyprian (say you) inveigheth most eloquentlie and godly against the abuses of the 6tragike buskin in his time. So hee doeth also against the evills of warre, of iudgement seates, of iudges, of advocates, of golde, and riches. Shall we therefore conclude there should bee no warre, no tribunals, no iudges, no advocates, no golde, no riches; and likewise no tragike buskin in any sort? Wherevpon you adde;
No doubt the Fathers, as holy men of God, both in their Councils, and in their books, have decreed, and written, many zealous & most godly things against the theatrical sights of their times: but distinguish the times, the places, the qualities of the sights & actors, and the use from the abuse; and it is evident by that which is said before, that we and our plays are not reproached by them. Thus labour you to face it out that your plays are not reproached by the Fathers, as dealing forsooth, just like Saint Cyprian ⟨p. 158⟩against the abuses of playing tragedies, not the use; when yet you had granted that fhe condemneth 7the attiring of boys in women's raiment, and teaching them to 8play the women, the self same thing he doth in the 9place you quote: so that your tragedy-playing is reproved by him in your own conscience, because of your Melantho and Nais played by boys, although it were true that he inveigheth only against the abuses thereof, as you distinguish.
No doubt the Fathers, as holy men of God, both in their Councelles, and in their bookes, have decreed, and written, many zealous & most godly things against the theatricall sightes of their times: but distinguish the times, the places, the qualities of the sights & actors, and the vse from the abuse; and it is evident by that which is said before, that we and our playes are not reproched by them. Thus labour you to face it out that your playes are not reproched by the Fathers, as dealing forsooth, iust like Saint Cyprian ⟨p. 158⟩against the abuses of playing tragedies, not the vse; when yet you had graunted that fhe condemneth 7the attyring of boyes in womens raiment, and teaching them to 8play the women, the self same thing he doth in the 9place you quote: so that your tragedie-playing is reprooved by him in your owne conscience, because of your Melantho and Nais played by boyes, although it were true that hee inveigheth onely against the abuses thereof, as you distinguish.
fEpist. 61. or (as your copy hath it) lib. 1. ep. 10.Epist. 61. or (as your copie hath it) lib. 1. ep. 10.
7Cùm in lege prohibeantur viri mu•ierē induere vestē & maledicti eiusmodi judicentur: quā to maioris est criminis non tantum muliebria indumenta accipere, sed & gestus quoque turpes, & molles, & muliebres, magisterio artis impudicae exprimere?Cùm in lege prohibeantur viri mu•ierē induere vestē & maledicti eiusmodi iudicentur: quā to maioris est criminis non tantum muliebria indumenta accipere, sed & gestus quoque turpes, & molles, & muliebres, magisterio artis impudicae exprimere?
8Quemadmodum masculus frangatur in foeminam.
9Evirantur mares; honor omnis & vigor sexus enervati corporis dedecore mollitur; plusque illic placet quisquis virū in foeminam magis fregerit.Evirantur mares; honor omnis & vigor sexus enervati corporis dedecore mollitur; plusque illic placet quisquis virū in foeminam magis fregerit.
The trueth is that he distinguished not so, neither for tragic buskin, nor for comic startup, but inveigheth against stage-playing it self: in like sort as he doeth against the games and sights of 1fencers, or sword-players, and of 2beast-players (so to term them) wherewith he matcheth this of 3stage-players. So that the absurd conclusion which you frame, of no war, no judges, no advocates, no riches, if no tragic buskin, is framed amiss on error, and would have reason enough if it were framed rightly, as it should be, thus, that, if no stage-playing ought to be allowed by Saint Cyprian's judgement, then ought there no. 4unjust wars, no perfidious advocates, no 56corrupt judges, no. 7covetous encroachers on the poor, to be allowed: because he inveigheth as well against the iniquity, treachery, bribery, and misery of these, as he doeth against stage-playing. Or, if you will needs have him to reprove the abuses only of stage-playing, not the thing: then by like reason he reproveth not the bloody sport and game of beast-players, or of sword-players, but the abuses of it. Which, I hope you will not affirm to be his meaning, no not for the former, sith 8the Church condemned it, as gEpiphanius witnesseth: 9it, I say, the thing, not the abuses of it, as if it had a right use, allowed by the Church. At least you will not make it his meaning ⟨p. 159⟩for the later; which Emperors, less severe then that holy Martyr, even hConstantine, iTheodosius, kHonorius, and lJustinian, took absolutely away by edicts and laws, as a thing faulty of it self. Though, when I consider your speech, above rehearsed, of so many Circi, Theatra, Amphitheatra, builded by the greatest & bravest Romans with huge charge; and of games set out therein, referred by Aristotle to magnificence, a goodly virtue: Your professed desire of approving the Romans judgement so far forth, as serveth for the necessary defence of your own doings, causeth me to doubt that seeing in 1Theatra, condemned by the Church, you distinguish abuse from use, you will in 2Circi also, and 3Amphitheatra; and therefore say that Cyprian reproveth not the use, but the abuses only of beast-plays, yea of sword-plays, unless there come some other shift into your mind for severance of your stage-plays from them.
The trueth is that he distinguished not so, neither for tragike buskin, nor for comike stertvp, but inveigheth against stage-playing it selfe: in like sort as he doeth against the games and sights of 1fensers, or sword-players, and of 2beast-players (so to terme them) wherewith he matcheth this of 3stage-players. So that the absurd conclusion which you frame, of no warre, no iudges, no advocates, no riches, if no tragike buskin, is framed amisse on errour, and would have reason enough if it were framed rightlie, as it should be, thus, that, if no stage-playing ought to be allowed by Saint Cyprians iudgement, then ought there no. 4vniust warres, no perfidious advocates, no 56corrupt iudges, no. 7covetous encrochers on the poore, to be allowed: because he inveigheth as well against the iniquitie, treacherie, briberie, and miserie of these, as he doeth against stage-playing. Or, if you will needes have him to reproove the abuses onely of stage-playing, not the thing: then by like reason he reprooveth not the blooddy sport and game of beast-players, or of sword-players, but the abuses of it. Which, I hope you will not affirme to be his meaning, no not for the former, sith 8the Church condemned it, as gEpiphanius witnesseth: 9it, I say, the thing, not the abuses of it, as if it had a right vse, allowed by the Church. At least you will not make it his meaning ⟨p. 159⟩for the later; which Emperours, lesse severe then that holie Martyr, even hConstantine, i
2Quid illud, oro te, quale est, ubi se feris obiiciunt quos nemo damnavit?Quid illud, oro te, quale est, vbi se feris obiiciunt quos nemo damnauit?
3Convert hi• vultus ad diversa spectaculi non minus paenitenda contagia: in theatris conspicies, quod tibi & dolori sit & pudori.Converte hi• vultus ad diuersa spectaculi non minus paenitenda contagia: in theatris conspicies, quod tibi & dolori sit & pudori.
9[Greek or Hebrew], translated venationem, meaning that hunting which Cassiodore describeth, variar. lib. 5. epist. 42. Quo muner• venator explendus est, qui, ut spectantibus placeat, suis mortibus elaborat. &c.〈non-Latin alphabet〉, translated venationem, meaning that hunting which Cassiodore describeth, variar. lib. 5. epist. 42. Quo muner• venator explendus est, qui, vt spectantibus placeat, suis mortibus elaborat. &c.
And sure if one possessed with mMachiavells humour and love of bloody sacrifices, as helping by the sight thereof to make men valiant, should wish for bloody games of sword-players in like respect: he might, by your example, not only challenge them from the mark of infamy wherewith the Romans branded them, (for nfuvenal, oSuetonius, pTacitus, and so forth, do reproach noble men and Knights for sword-playing, not base folk;) but also defend them from the reproof of Cyprian and all the rest of the Fathers. For qCyprian inveigheth most eloquently and godly against the abuses of sword-playing in his time. So rhe doth also against the evils of war, of judgement seats, of judges, of advocates, of gold, and riches. Shall we therefore conclude there should be no war, no tribunals, no judges, no advocates, no gold, no riches, and likewise no sword-playing in any sort? No doubt the sFathers, as holy men of God, have written many Zealous and most godly things against the amphitheatrical sights of their times: but distinguish the times, the places, the qualities of the sights and actors, and the use from the abuse; and it is evident by that which Machiavell saith, that sword-plays of our age are ⟨p. 160⟩not reproached by them. A very true sentence, that, no doubt the Fathers have written many zealous and most godly things against those sights of both sorts: and likewise true, no doubt, that it is as evident by Machiavel's discourse, that, if such swordplays should now be used in London, as were then at Rome, the Fathers check them not; as it is by yours, that the Fathers do not reproach the same stage-plays of Plautus, Terence, Seneca, or worse (which comparison Rivals may well bear) played here, of late, among us. Wherefore it had been better for your credit to contain your self within generalities, by saying that men mistake the Fathers: as Machiavell contented him self to say in gross, that base and cowardly wretches have miss-interpreted our religion. For then I could not have blamed you about particulars; your policy had prevented me, as it hath in Chrysostom: whose testimony, tquoted by me against your wasteful expenses on such toys, you make no answer to, no more then to vothers whom I quoted not.
And sure if one possessed with mMachiavells humour and loue of blooddy sacrifices, as helping by the sight thereof to make men valiant, should wish for blooddy games of swoord-players in like respect: he might, by your example, not onely chalenge them from the marke of infamie wherewith the Romans branded them, (for nfuvenal, oSuetonius, pTacitus, and so foorth, doe reproche noble men and Knights for swoord-playing, not base folke;) but also defende them from the reproofe of Cyprian and all the rest of the Fathers. For qCyprian inveigheth most eloquently and godly against the abuses of swoord-playing in his time. So rhe doth also against the evills of warre, of iudgement seates, of iudges, of advocates, of gold, and riches. Shall wee therefore conclude there should be no warre, no tribunals, no iudges, no advocates, no gold, no riches, and likewise no swoord-playing in any sort? No dout the sFathers, as holy men of God, haue written many Zealous and most godly things against the amphitheatricall sights of their times: but distinguish the times, the places, the qualities of the sights and actors, and the vse from the abuse; and it is evident by that which Machiavell saith, that swoord-playes of our age are ⟨p. 160⟩not reproched by them. A very true sentence, that, no dout the Fathers haue written many zealous and most godly thinges against those sights of both sorts: and likewise true, no dout, that it is as evident by Machiavels discourse, that, if such swoordplayes should now be vsed in London, as were then at Rome, the Fathers checke them not; as it is by yours, that the Fathers doe not repoche the same stage-playes of Plautus, Terence, Seneca, or woorse (which comparison Rivales may well beare) played here, of late, among vs. Wherefore it had bene better for your credit to conteine your selfe within generalities, by saying that men mistake the Fathers: as Machiavell contented him selfe to say in grosse, that base and cowardly wretches have misse-interpreted our religion. For then I could not haue blamed you about particulars; your policie had prevented me, as it hath in Chrysostome: whose testimonie,
Now, when you affirm that Cyprian, and the rest, writing against the theatrical sights of their times, do not write against such as in our time are used: I must needs tell you, that you show less conscience and singleness in your writing, then to whom you ought and easily might excel in all religious duties, Bodinus, and Lipsius. Of whom xthe one, declaring what need there is for Censors for theatres of our time, allegeth sundry Fathers, and namely Cyprian, against them: yea, that very epistle of yCyprian, which you specify, and wring to the contrary. The zother, observing how the Fathers have inveighed against games, as 4springs of lust, and cruelty; pointing, in the term of lust, unto theatres; of cruelty, unto amphitheatres; doeth argue that sword-plays, if they were used in our time, might be as well denied to be reproached by the Fathers, as stage-plays of our time are. But, with whatsoever cunning or boldness, you blind the eyes of children, and make them believe that these ancient Prophets write not against your fancy: the praise given by you to our own Prophets, those reverend and famous persons now living, causeth me to fear I was too faint when I said, They will not approve your obstinate striving for it; I should have said, They ⟨p. 161⟩will not approve your bare opinion or this, will, is also too faint; They do not approve it. For, being excellent men in life, they love modesty, and yield unto the known truth. Being excellent in learning, they know that your theatrical sights are of the same kind, that the Fathers have decreed in their Councils, and written in their books against. The things which the Fathers have decreed and written, are not only zealous, but also most godly, as you say. Most godly; therefore consonant to the holy Scriptures: on the ground whereof it is expressly noted by aEpiphanius likewise that 5the churches doctrine and ordinances were framed. And how can it be thought then with any likelihood, that those reverend persons do approve your stage-plays: which, by all presumptions, and your own verdict, they know that the Church, the Fathers, the Councils, the Scriptures have condemned? In deed if they were Papists, and such as would rather put on the shameless forehead of the whore of Babylon, then confess them selves to have been overseen:
Now, when you affirme that Cyprian, and the rest, writing against the theatricall sights of their times, doe not write against such as in our time are vsed: I must needes tell you, that you shew lesse conscience and singlenes in your writing, then to whom you ought and easily might excell in all religious duties, Bodinus, and Lipsius. Of whom xthe one, declaring what neede there is for Censors for theaters of our time, alleageth sundry Fathers, and namelie Cyprian, against them: yea, that very epistle of yCyprian, which you specifie, and wring to the contrarie. The zother, observing how the Fathers have inveighed against games, as 4springes of lust, and crueltie; pointing, in the terme of lust, vnto theaters; of crueltie, vnto amphitheaters; doeth argue that swoord-playes, if they were vsed in our time, might bee as well denied to bee reproched by the Fathers, as stage-playes of our time are. But, with whatsoever cunning or boldnes, you blinde the eyes of children, and make them beleeve that these ancient Prophets write not against your fansie: the praise given by you to our owne Prophets, those reverend and famous persons now living, causeth me to feare I was too faint when I said, They will not approove your obstinate striving for it; I should haue said, They ⟨p. 161⟩will not approove your bare opinion or this, will, is also too faint; They doe not approove it. For, being excellent men in life, they love modestie, and yeeld vnto the knowen truth. Beeing excellent in learning, they know that your theatricall sights are of the same kinde, that the Fathers have decreed in their Councells, and written in their bookes against. The thinges which the Fathers have decreed and written, are not only zealous, but also most godly, as you say. Most godly; therefore consonant to the holy Scriptures: on the ground whereof it is expressely noted by aEpiphanius likewise that 5the churches doctrine and ordinances were framed. And how can it bee thought then with any likelyhoode, that those reverend persons doe approove your stage-playes: which, by all presumptions, and your own verdict, they know that the Church, the Fathers, the Councels, the Scriptures have condemned? In deede if they were Papists, and such as would rather put on the shamelesse forehead of the hoore of Babylon, then confesse them selves to have bene overseene:
a man might have reason to think, that their own doings they would still allow of. For, whereas the profane and wicked toys of Passion-plays, plays setting forth Christs passion, procured 6by Popish Priests, who, being bcorrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ, as they have transformed the celebrating of the Sacrament of cthe Lords supper into a dMass-game, and all other parts of Ecclesiastical service into etheatrical sights; so, in stead of fpreaching the word, they caused it to be played; a thing gput in practise by their flowers, the Jesuits, among the poor Indians; but whereas these babbles were reproved by hVives: the iPurgatory-censors commanded 7that reproof of his to be defaced; and the kDivines of Lovan have razed it out accordingly. Yea, though lsome Italian Bishops in a Council, under their Archbishop Cardinal Borrhomaeus, have 8ordered, for their Province, that the Passion shall not be played hereafter any where: yet (for fear of breeding a scruple in mens minds that their Church might err) they say, 9it was a custom religiously brought in. So loth are ambitious spirits to acknowledge ⟨p. 162⟩their oversights and faults. But seeing that our reverend Pastors and Doctors have an other spirit, as mhe saith of Caleb, and profess a purer religion then Papists: you must give me leave to suspect rather that you charge them wrongfully, then that men of excellent godliness and wisdom do allow and think well of so manifold evils, as in your plays I have disclosed.
a man might haue reason to think, that their owne doeings they would still allow of. For, wheras the profane and wicked toyes of Passion-playes, playes setting foorth Christs passion, procured 6by Popish Priests, who, being bcorrupted from the simplicitie that is in Christ, as they have transformed the celebrating of the Sacrament of cthe Lords supper into a dMasse-game, and all other partes of Ecclesiasticall service into etheatricall sights; so, in steede of fpreaching the word, they caused it to be played; a thing gput in practise by their flowres, the Iesuits, among the poore Indians; but whereas these bables were reprooved by hVives: the iPurgatorie-censors commanded 7that reproofe of his to be defaced; and the kDivines of Lovan have razed it out accordingly. Yea, though lsome Italian Bishops in a Councell, vnder their Archbishop Cardinall Borrhomaeus, have 8ordered, for their Province, that the Passion shall not bee played hereafter any where: yet (for feare of breeding a scruple in mens mindes that their Church might erre) they say, 9it was a custome religiously brought in. So loth are ambitious spirits to acknowledge ⟨p. 162⟩
6Magno scelere atque impretate sacerdotum, qui eiusmodi fieri curant: faith Vives.Magno scelere atque impretate sacerdotum, qui eiusmodi fieri curant: faith Viues.
8Statuimus ut deinceps Saluatoris passio nec in sacro, nec in profano loco agatur.Statuimus vt deinceps Saluatoris passio nec in sacro, nec in profano loco agatur.
9Pie introducta consuetudo repraesentandi populo venerandam Christi Domini passionem.
And thus, a great deal later then my desire and hope was, but as soon as sickness and business would permit, have you that performed, which in your conclusion, by words, you request me to forbear the doing of; in your whole discourse, by deeds, you have induced and urged me to undertake. The reason added by you to move me to forbear it, namely, that I have some thing else to do, then to trouble my self, and my better studies, with a matter of this nature and moment; I know not whether it would have seemed sound to others, sure to me it did not. For, if I had lived among the Jews at that time, when nthe priests neglecting the service of the altar, and sacrifices of the law, made hast to be partakers 1of unlawful games in the wrestling place: I should of all studies have deemed that the best, which the Lord requireth at his Prophets hands, oto rise up in the gap, and keep out pthe enemy striving to enter in thereby, What study therefore could I account so good, as this, to spend my vacant time in, when Christians, qanointed by God, ran holy Priesthood, make hast from spiritual sacrifices and service to be partakers of stage-plays; that is, of more unlawful games then were 2those exercises in the wrestling place, as sthe thing it self, & your own tlaw may teach you? Again, the vvirtuous training up of youth among us, and the xgodly life of all sorts of persons, are matters of great moment and weight in his sight, ywho without respect of person judgeth every man according to his work. Now, what hurt it is for youth to be seasoned with a liking of stage-players; I say not, to be stage-players them selves, which is worse, but to have a liking and love of such only; the author of zthe dialogue (were it Tacitus, or Quintilian) touching the decay of eloquence among the Romans, doeth show by 3their example. And, how the manners of all spectators commonly are hazarded by the contagion of ⟨p. 163⟩theatrical sights, I made plain unto you in my former letters by the testimonies of learned men and noble nations; all granted by your self, or as good as granted, in that you have either not answered them at all, or unsufficientlie. Wherefore, considering S. aAust. zealous care to reclaim Alipius (a young man whom he loved, a worthy Bishop afterward) from 4the vain delight that he took in seeing games of chariot-drivers:
And thus, a great deale later then my desire and hope was, but as soone as sicknes and busines would permit, haue you that performed, which in your conclusion, by woords, you request me to forbeare the doeing of; in your whole discourse, by deedes, you haue induced and vrged mee to vndertake. The reason added by you to move mee to forbeare it, namely, that I have some thing else to doe, then to trouble my selfe, and my better studies, with a matter of this nature and moment; I knowe not whether it would haue seemed sound to others, sure to mee it did not. For, if I had lived among the Iewes at that time, when nthe priests neglecting the service of the altar, and sacrifices of the law, made hast to be partakers 1of vnlawfull games in the wrastling place: I should of all studies haue deemed that the best, which the Lord requireth at his Prophets hands, oto rise vp in the gappe, and keepe out pthe enemie striving to enter in thereby, What studie therefore could I account so good, as this, to spend my vacant time in, when Christians, qanointed by God, ran holy Priesthood, make hast from spirituall sacrifices and service to be partakers of stage-playes; that is, of more vnlawful games then were 2those exercises in the wrastling place, as sthe thing it selfe, & your own tlaw may teach you? Againe, the vvertuous training vp of youth among vs, and the xgodly life of all sorts of persons, are matters of great moment and weight in his sight, ywho without respect of person iudgeth everie man according to his woorke. Now, what hurt it is for youth to bee seasoned with a liking of stage-players; I say not, to bee stage-players them selves, which is woorse, but to have a liking and love of such onely; the autour of
I could not but esteem it a thing of price, and worth, to seek to reclaim from a far more vain and dangerous delight the Students of your house, among whom there are many no less deer to me then Alipius was to Austin, and as likely (by Gods grace) hereafter to prove well. With whom I have also greater cause to hope that I shall prevail, then he had with Alipius, because your self tell me, that you do and ever will most gladly embrace, not only my good will, but also my judgement in this cause so far as I write in the general against stage-players. For I am persuaded that their opinions of me are as kind as yours: and then do they agree with me in a manner about the point we treat of. They will agree wholly, if they weigh advisedly one rule, which byou can teach them, and I would I might entreat you so to do: namely, that 5the general doeth evermore comprise the special. The Lord behold both them, and you, in his mercy: and give you all his grace to know the way that leadeth unto life eternal, and to walk therein.
I could not but esteeme it a thing of price, and woorth, to seeke to reclaime from a farre more vaine and dangerous delite the Students of your house, among whom there are many no lesse deere to me then Alipius was to Austin, and as likelie (by Gods grace) hereafter to proove well. With whom I have also greater cause to hope that I shall prevaile, then he had with Alipius, because your selfe tell me, that you doe and ever will most gladly embrace, not onely my good will, but also my iudgement in this cause so farre as I write in the generall against stage-players. For I am perswaded that their opinions of me are as kinde as yours: and then doe they agree with me in a maner about the point wee treate of. They will agree wholy, if they weigh advisedlie one rule, which byou can teach them, and I would I might entreat you so to doe: namely, that 5the generall doeth evermore comprise the speciall. The Lord behold both them, and you, in his mercy: and giue you all his grace to know the way that leadeth vnto life eternall, and to walke therein.
bL. 147. D. de regulis juris.L. 147. D. de regulis iuris.
NON feres, opinor, aegrè, missa haec à me in vulgus, quae unum habent, & alterum aliter, atque tu senseris, & docueris. Neque enim ego contra te stare volui, à quo steti semper, & Deo faciente stabo: sed adversus alios disputavi, quos sequi non potui: eos etsi tu sequereris, & ad probares. Rogavi te coram de utraque quaestione: nec tamen audire à te nisi nudam sententiam tuam valui. Petii etiam à communi amico nostro Errico Cuffio, ut de te ipsum hoc sciscitaretur, si mihi autor esses, ut commentationes istas typis mandarem. Sed aut te convenire ille non potuit: aut accepit nihil, quod responderet. Audi, mi Rainolde: quaestionem de histrionibus publicè ego tractavi antea quam tibi haec quaestio cum altero esset. Itaque ipsam demere nunc de corpore reliquo, honestum non fuerit. Imo ad me spectare videtur, defendere semper jus civile, quod profiteor, & quod semper justissimum observavi. In vestras autem si sedesque veni, non solùm tutari conatus sum nostras: tu illud nosti juris esse, quando & tu invisere nos in nostris sedibus voluisti. Quanquam de te ego cogitare nequivi, qui post meam commentationem ingressus es istam disceptationem: at moralia, & politica sacrorum librorum aut nostra existimavi, aut certè communia nobis, & theologis: & verò etiamnum versor in eadem opinion. Vale, vir clarissime. Et de meis his chartis, •t literis sic facies, ut te in opere, quod nunc aggrederis, arduo, et summo, ne tantillum quidem morentur: neque enim tanti sunt.
NON feres, opinor, aegrè, missa haec à me in vulgus, quae unum habent, & alterum aliter, atque tu senseris, & docueris. Neque enim ego contra te stare volui, à quo steti semper, & Deo faciente stabo: sed adversus alios disputavi, quos sequi non potui: eos etsi tu sequereris, & ad probares. Rogavi te coram de utraque quaestione: nec tamen audire à te nisi nudam sententiam tuam valui. Petii etiam à communi amico nostro Errico Cuffio, ut de te ipsum hoc sciscitaretur, si mihi autor esses, ut commentationes istas typis mandarem. Sed aut te convenire ille non potuit: aut accepit nihil, quod responderet. Audi, mi Rainolde: quaestionem de histrionibus publicè ego tractavi antea quam tibi haec quaestio cum altero esset. Itaque ipsam demere nunc de corpore reliquo, honestum non fuerit. Imo ad me spectare videtur, defendere semper jus civile, quod profiteor, & quod semper iustissimum observavi. In vestras autem si sedesque veni, non solùm tutari conatus sum nostras: tu illud nosti iuris esse, quando & tu invisere nos in nostris sedibus voluisti. Quanquam de te ego cogitare nequivi, qui post meam commentationem ingressus es istam disceptationem: at moralia, & politica sacrorum librorum aut nostra existimavi, aut certè communia nobis, & theologis: & verò etiamnum versor in eadem opinione. Uale, vir clarissime. Et de meis his chartis, •t literis sic facies, vt te in opere, quod nunc aggrederis, arduo, et summo, ne tantillum quidem morentur: neque enim tanti sunt.
Augustus gaue one (were not our Augusta the more gratious to vs) for presuming to play it before a presence of such honour: then why you should mention to the credit of your playes, and to my discredit, that they are thinges done by you, in a worshipfull, and sometimes honorable presence.
Austin bee perswaded of him, that seeing he knew, he might more easilie erre then Peter, he would haue bene very well content to change his minde, if any man by
the Church had sifted the truth in a generall Councell, and agreed of it;
his predecessors in this errour, and therfore was the more excusable: so had the reverend men, whom you alleage, their predecessors that trained them to the liking of playes. Neither is it probable that they have bene advertised of their oversight by any such mans writing, as Cyprian was by
Cyprian continued in his errour still, notwithstanding that advertisement: howe knowe you that they haue not changed their opinion? Or, if they have not changed it, they may ere they dye:
Iustinian, tooke absolutely away by edictes and lawes, as a thing faulty of it selfe. Though, when I consider your speech, above rehearsed, of so many Circi, Theatra, Amphitheatra, builded by the greatest & bravest Romans with huge charge; and of games sett out therein, referred by Aristotle to magnificence, a goodlie vertue: Your professed desire of approoving the Romans iudgement so farre foorth, as serveth for the necessarie defense of your owne dooings, causeth mee to dout that seeing in
Amphitheatra; and therefore say that Cyprian reprooveth not the vse, but the abuses onely of beast-playes, yea of swoord-playes, vnlesse there come some other shift into your minde for severance of your stageplayes from them.
1[Greek or Hebrew]. Epiphanius. in the place quoted.〈non-Latin alphabet〉. Epiphanius. in the place quoted.
2Ludi circenses: which he nameth [Greek or Hebrew].Ludi circenses: which he nameth 〈non-Latin alphabet〉.
3[Greek or Hebrew]. Dio. lib. 43. used not only to [Greek or Hebrew], whereof Epiphanius; but also to [Greek or Hebrew] & gladiatoria certamina. Tertull. de spect. cap. 12 & 1•.〈non-Latin alphabet〉. Dio. lib. 43. vsed not onely to 〈non-Latin alphabet〉, whereof Epiphanius; but also to 〈non-Latin alphabet〉 & gladiatoria certamina. Tertull. de spect. cap. 12 & 1•.
he saith of Caleb, and professe a purer religion then Papists: you must give mee leave to suspect rather that you charge them wrongfully, then that men of excellent godlines and wisdome doo allow and thinke well of so manifold evills, as in your playes I haue disclosed.
their example. And, how the maners of all spectators commonlie are hazarded by the contagion of
⟨p. 163⟩
theatricall sights, I made plaine vnto you in my former letters by the testimonies of learned men and noble nations; all granted by your selfe, or as good as granted, in that you haue either not answered them at all, or vnsufficientlie. Wherefore, considering S.
