The sum of the conference between John Rainoldes and John Hart touching the head…The summe of the conference betwene Iohn Rainoldes and Iohn Hart touching the head…
The sum of the conference between John Rainoldes and John Hart touching the head and the faith of the Church. Wherein by the way are handled sundry points, of the sufficiency and right expounding of the Scriptures, the ministry of the Church, the function of priesthood, the sacrifice of the mass, with other controversies of religion: but chiefly and purposely the point of Church-government ... Penned by John Rainoldes, according to the notes set down in writing by them both: perused by John Hart, and (after things supplied, & altered, as he thought good) allowed for the faithful report of that which past in conference between them. Whereunto is annexed a treatise entitled, Six conclusions touching the Holy Scripture and the Church, written by John Rainoldes. With a defence of such things as Thomas Stapleton and Gregory Martin have carped at therein.The summe of the conference betwene Iohn Rainoldes and Iohn Hart touching the head and the faith of the Church. Wherein by the way are handled sundrie points, of the sufficiencie and right expounding of the Scriptures, the ministerie of the Church, the function of priesthood, the sacrifice of the masse, with other controuerises of religion: but chiefly and purposely the point of Church-gouernment ... Penned by Iohn Rainoldes, according to the notes set downe in writing by them both: perused by Iohn Hart, and (after things supplied, & altered, as he thought good) allowed for the faithfull report of that which past in conference betwene them. Whereunto is annexed a treatise intitled, Six conclusions touching the Holie Scripture and the Church, writen by Iohn Rainoldes. With a defence of such thinges as Thomas Stapleton and Gregorie Martin haue carped at therein.
John Rainolds 1549–1607Londini: printed by John Wolfe, 1584Londini: printed by Iohn Wolfe, 1584
475, [1], 479-674, 659-750 p. · 304k words · STC 20626 · ESTC S115546
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
and going, first, before Bishops; afterward, before Arch-bishops; and at the last, before Patriarchs. nHe chose the greatest Prelates of sundry dioceses and provinces, as of York (for example) and Canterbury in England; Rhemes and Roan, in France; Toledo, in Spain; Lisbon, in Portugal; Milan, Ravenna, Venice, in Italy; in Germany Cologne, Trier, and Mens; in Bohemia, Praga; Cracovia, in Poland; Strigonium, in Hungary: and so forth the chiefest Bishops of all Christendom, to be his Cardinal Priests and Deacons. Yea, they were glad to be so, because the Cardinalship was a degree unto the Popedom. oNeither did he accustom them to give over their Bishoply charge, that others placed in their rooms might supply that duty, and they might attend ⟨p. 384⟩their charge of Cardinal Priestship and Deaconship in Rome: but for the better maintenance of their own port, and strengthening of the Popedom, he suffered them to keep the livings of their Bishoprics and Cardinalships both. Wherein least he might seem to break that rule of discipline, one man to have but one charge: he took order that they should not be called Bishops though they had Bishoprics. How then? Forsooth, a Bishop, if he were made Cardinal Deacon, must be called elect Bishop: if he were made Cardinal Priest, must be called perpetual administrator of his Bishopric. As namely Thomas Wolsey Archbishop of York, when he was made Cardinal parish-priest of Rome, he must be called, not Archbishop, but Cardinal Woolsey, pPriest of S. Cecilie's parish, and perpetual administrator of the Archbishopric of York. And Aeneas Siluius, Bishop of Siena, when he was made Cardinal Deacon, must be called, not Bishop, but Cardinal Siluius, dDeacon of S. Eustace's, and elect Bishop of Siena. A shift somewhat strange, and such as a while the Popes themselves were ashamed off: at least they used it sparingly, until the time of Clemens the fifth. He, when the ice was broken, did wade more boldly through. And after him his successors, who staid in France, as he did, and set the See of Rome in the city of Avignon, did bring it to a common practise: in so much that none almost was made Cardinal, who had not a Bishopric either
and going, first, before Bishops; afterward, before Arch-bishops; and at the last, before Patriarkes. nHe chose the greatest Prelates of sundry dioceses and prouinces, as of Yorke (for example) and Canterburie in England; Rhemes and Roan, in France; Toledo, in Spaine; Lisbon, in Portugall; Milan, Rauenna, Venice, in Italie; in Germanie Coolcin, Trier, and Mens; in Boheme, Praga; Cracouia, in Poleland; Strigonium, in Hungarie: and so forth the chiefest Bishops of all Christendome, to be his Cardinall Priestes and Deacons. Yea, they were glad to be so, because the Cardinalship was a degree vnto the Popedome. oNeither did he accustome them to giue ouer their Bishoply charge, that others placed in their roomes might supplie that duetie, and they might attend ⟨p. 384⟩their charge of Cardinall Priestship and Deaconship in Rome: but for the better maintenance of their owne porte, and strengthning of the Popedome, he suffered them to keépe the liuings of their Bishoprickes and Cardinalships both. Wherein least he might séeme to breake that rule of discipline, one man to haue but one charge: he tooke order that they should not be called Bishops though they had Bishoprickes. How then? Forsooth, a Bishop, if he were made Cardinall Deacon, must be called elect Bishop: if he were made Cardinall Priest, must be called perpetuall administrator of his Bishopricke. As namely Thomas Wolsey Archbishop of Yorke, when he was made Cardinall parish-priest of Rome, he must be called, not Archbishop, but Cardinall Woolsey, pPriest of S. Cecilies parish, and perpetuall administrator of the Archbishopricke of Yorke. And Aeneas Siluius, Bishop of Siena, when he was made Cardinall Deacon, must be called, not Bishop, but Cardinall Siluius, dDeacon of S. Eustaces, and elect Bishop of Siena. A shift somewhat straunge, and such as a while the Popes themselues were ashamed off: at least they vsed it sparingly, vntill the time of Clemens the fifth. He, when the yse was broken, did wade more boldly through. And after him his successours, who staide in France, as he did, and set the Sée of Rome in the citie of Auinion, did bring it to a common practise: in so much that none almost was made Cardinal, who had not a Bishopricke either 4in title, or 5in commenda, or 6in perpetuall administration.
nOnuphr. de Romanis Pontificibus & Cardinalibus.
oDe episcopat▪ tit. & diacon••• Card.
pPresbyter Cardinalis, tit. S. Caeciliae, perpetuus administrator archiepiscopatus Eboracensis.
dDiaconus Cardinals S. Eustachii, electus episcopus Senensis.Diaconus Cardinal•s S. Eustachii, electus episcopus Senensis.
So by these devises (which all were invented by the Popes at Avignon) they had now disfurnished many Churches of Bishops, to furnish, in word, the Church of Rome with Priests, and Deacons; in deed, the Court of Rome with rich and mighty Cardinals. Yet this is the least part of that abomination of desolation, which they have set in the holy places. For under pretence, that it is their duty to see that all Churches be provided of fit pastors, they have 7reserved Church-livings, when and which they listed, to their own bestowing, and them have they seized on to maintain the port of their Cardinals too. This was not only done, but also professed to be done to that end by Clemens the sixth. Who having made new Cardinals, reserved the benefices in England that were void, and should be void next, (besides Bishoprics & Abbeys) to the sum of two thousand marks, ⟨p. 385⟩and for them he provided two Cardinals to be their pastors. Whereof when stay was made by king Edward the third, who seeing how the Church and realm were both decayed by tho•e provisions for aliens, did inhibit them to be se•u•d: oPope Clemens wrote unto him, that having lately made new Cardinals of the Church of Rome, he could not with reason but provide for them, 1as it was seemly for their state; & this he had done by providing benefices which either were presently void, or should be after, unto a certain sum, for two of them in England, for the rest in other kingdoms and coasts of Christendom; through all the which almost he had made the like provision for new Cardinals, neither amongst them all had found any 2rebellion, (so he termed it,) save this in England only. The Cardinals, which Clemens had pthen made, were twelve. Two of them he furnished with so many benefices, as should be worth two thousand marks. I cannot say precisely what number that might be. But it must be noted that (as the rate of money and price of things hath grown) a benefice, worth three hundred marks or better now, was then not worth a hundred; neither did the Pope choose the fattest benefices but such as next came to the net: and he meant his Cardinals should have that pension clear, besides their farmers shares, and vicars, or curates. So that the two Cardinals (by probable conjecture) might have an hundred benefices before they had their yearly two thousand mark pension.
So by these deuises (which all were inuented by the Popes at Auinion) they had now disfurnished many Churches of Bishops, to furnish, in word, the Church of Rome with Priestes, and Deacons; in déede, the Court of Rome with rich and mightie Cardinals. Yet this is the least parte of that abomination of desolation, which they haue set in the holy places. For vnder pretense, that it is their duetie to sée that all Churches be prouided of fitte pastors, they haue 7reserued Church-liuings, when and which they listed, to their own bestowing, and them haue they seazed on to maintaine the port of their Cardinals too. This was not onely done, but also professed to be done to that ende by Clemens the sixth. Who hauing made new Cardinals, reserued the benefices in England that were void, and should be void next, (besides Bishoprickes & Abbeies) to the summe of two thousand markes, ⟨p. 385⟩and for them he prouided two Cardinalls to be their pastours. Whereof when stay was made by king Edward the third, who seeing how the Church and realme were both decayed by tho•e prouisions for aliens, did inhibit them to bee se•u•d: oPope Clemens wrote vnto him, that hauing lately made newe Cardinalls of the Church of Rome, he could not with reason but prouide for them, 1as it was seemely for their state; & this he had doon by prouiding benefices which either were presently voide, or should be after, vnto a certaine summe, for two of them in England, for the rest in other kingdomes and coastes of Christendome; through all the which almost hee had made the like prouision for new Cardinalls, neither amongst them all had found any 2rebellion, (so he termed it,) saue this in England onely. The Cardinals, which Clemens had pthen made, were twelue. Two of them he furnished with so many benefices, as should be woorth two thousand markes. I cannot say precisely what number that might be. But it must be noted that (as the rate of money and price of thinges hath growen) a benefice, worth thrée hundred markes or better now, was then not worth a hundred; neither did the Pope choose the fattest benefices but such as next came to the net: and hee meant his Cardinals should haue that pension cléere, besides their farmers shares, and vicars, or curates. So that the two Cardinals (by probable coniecture) might haue an hundred benefices before they had their yearely two thowsand marke pension.
oEpist. Clemen••s Papae ad R••em Angliae Edwa. du• tert•um. Walsingham hist. Angl. i• Edward. […].Epist. Clemen••s Papae ad R••em Angliae Edwa. du• tert•um. Walsingam hist. Angl. i• Edward. 〈…〉.
But let it be eighty, seventy, sixty: let it be fifty: or, if that seem too much, let it be forty. The Pope did provide, as for them, so for the rest: who being ten mo, must have two hundred by proportion. Which proportion if it be drawn to all, nay to half, nay to a quarter of the Cardinals, whom Clemens and his successors have made sith that time nfor these twelve score years: the number of parishes will rise to many thousands, which they have laid waste, as flocks without pastors, to maintain the state of their Cardinals only. Yet this is but a part of that abomination of desolation which they have set in the holy places. For as though the profits of so many Churches were too small a living for the Priests and Deacons of the Court of Rome: they have gone forward from pluralities of benefices to pluralities of bishoprics. And under the colour of *commending ⟨p. 386⟩(as they name it,) that is, committing them to some of trust for a time, till good and godly Bishops might be provided for them: qthey have put two Bishoprics unto one Cardinal, yea sometimes three, yea four, yea five, yea some times six. Cardinal Hippolytus, rwho plucked out the eyes of the Lord Julius his own natural brother, because a damsel, whom he loved, did love his brother more then him, and confessed to him that it was the beauty of his brothers eyes, wherewith she was so ravished: sthis Cardinal being deacon of S. Lucies in Rome, & Archpriest of S. Peters, had the Bishoprics of Milan, Capua, Strigonium, Agria, Mutina, and Ferrara. Of the which six, three be Archbishoprics of sundry kingdoms and dominions, Milan, of Lombardy; Capua, of Naples; Strigonium, of Hungary; distant each from other some hundreds of miles: the other three are somewhat nearer to their fellows, one in Hungary, two in Italy. But if the Popes have taken six dioceses and provinces lying so far a sunder, and made them all desolate of Bishops and Archbishops, to maintain one Cardinals pomp, and him a Deacon: what hath the desolation been which they have brought on dioceses and provinces that might be joined more fitly, to maintain the rest, and them of higher calling, as Cardinal Priests and Bishops? Yet behold a greater abomination of desolation then this, nay, then all these, which I have touched hitherto.
But let it be eightie, seuentie, sixtie: let it be fiftie: or, if that séeme too much, let it be fortie. The Pope did prouide, as for them, so for the rest: who being ten mo, must haue two hundred by proportion. Which proportion if it be drawne to all, nay to halfe, nay to a quarter of the Cardinals, whom Clemens and his successours haue made sith that time nfor these twelue score yeares: the number of parishes will rise to many thousandes, which they haue laide waste, as flockes without pastors, to maintaine the state of their Cardinals onely. Yet this is but a part of that abomination of desolation which they haue set in the holy places. For as though the profits of so many Churches were too small a liuing for the Priestes and Deacons of ye Court of Rome: they haue gone forwarde from pluralities of benefices to pluralities of bishopricks. And vnder the colour of *commending ⟨p. 386⟩(as they name it,) that is, commiting them to some of trust for a time, till good and godly Bishops might bee prouided for them: qthey haue put two Bishoprickes vnto one Cardinall, yea sometimes three, yea foure, yea fiue, yea some times sixe. Cardinall Hippolytus, rwho plucked out the eyes of the Lord Iulius his owne naturall brother, because a damsell, whom hee loued, did loue his brother more then him, and confessed to him that it was the beautie of his brothers eyes, wherewith she was so rauished: sthis Cardinall being deacon of S. Lucies in Rome, & Archpriest of S. Peters, had the Bishoprickes of Milan, Capua, Strigonium, Agria, Mutina, and Ferrara. Of the which sixe, three be Archbishoprickes of sundrie kingdomes and dominions, Milan, of Lombardie; Capua, of Naples; Strigonium, of Hungarie; distant ech from other some hundreds of miles: the other three are somewhat neerer to their felowes, one in Hungarie, two in Italie. But if the Popes haue taken sixe dioceses and prouinces lying so farre a sunder, and made them all desolate of Bishops and Archbishops, to maintaine one Cardinals pompe, and him a Deacon: what hath the desolation béene which they haue brought on dioceses and prouinces that might bee ioyned more fitly, to maintaine the rest, and them of higher calling, as Cardinall Priestes and Bishops? Yet behold a greater abomination of desolation then this, nay, then al these, which I haue touched hitherto.
nSith the year of Christ 1343. in the which Pope Clemens m•de those provisions for his Cardinals.Sith the yeare of Christ 1343. in the which Pope Clemens m•de those proui•ions for his Cardinals.
*Commend••• al•cuius cur• whence the name of commenda comech▪ c. Obitum. c Catinensis. Dist. 61. c. Clericum. c. qui plures. 2. q. 1. c. dudum. 2. de elect. c. Nemo. de elect▪ in Sexto.
qOnuphr. de e•iscopatibus •••ulis & diacon••s Card.
For tthe livings of the Cardinals (with uavails thereto belonging) were great of themselves, and did perhaps content some: or if they did not, yet the number of those caterpillars was small in comparison. But the Popes had other hungry knights about them, kinsmen, officers, servants, retainers, vassals, hangers on, and all the rabble of their Court, whose livings were not crumbs of the Cardinals tables, whose number was as *the grasshoppers which covered the face of Egypt. And they were also made pastors of Churches, (not to feed them, but to sleese them,) by the same conveyances of Papal reservations, commendams, provisions, and other such Egyptian tricks. An example of it in our xEnglish Chronicles of Henry the third: in whose days the Pope enjoined by one mandate to the Bishops of Canterbury, Lincoln, and Salisbury, that they should provide for 1three hundred Romans in benefices next ••cant, and they should give no benefice until they had provided ⟨p. 387⟩for so many, 2competently. But what speak I of three hundred? The Romans and Italians were multiplied so within a few years in English church livings, by Gregory the ninth much, but more by Innocentius the fourth: that *when the king caused a view thereof to be taken throughout the whole realm, the sum of their revenues was found to be yearly 3three score thousand marks, to the which sum the yearly revenues of the crown of England did not amount. The king though misliking the disorder greatly, yet being loth to meddle with the redress of it for fear of the Pope, (the stripes of whose wrath against his father king John, against his cozen Otho the Emperor, and Otho's successor Frederick the second, were bleeding fresh before his eyes:) 4the Nobles and Commons sent a supplication to Pope Innocentius and the general Council assembled then at Lyons. Wherein, upon complaint that 5an infinite number of Italians in England had the charge of flocks, who neither fed, nor knew, nor cared for their sheep, 6but received only the fruits & revenues, and carried them out of the realm: that the yearly rents of Italians in England amounted to three score thousand marks, and upward, besides divers other avails, which they reaped where they sowed not:
For tthe liuinges of the Cardinals (with uauailes thereto belonging) were great of themselues, and did perhaps content some: or if they did not, yet the number of those caterpillers was small in comparison. But the Popes had other hungrie knightes about them, kinsmen, officers, seruants, retainers, vasals, hangers on, and all the rable of their Court, whose liuing•s were not crummes of ye Cardinals tables, whose number was as *the grashoppers which couered the face of Egipt. And they were also made pastors of Churches, (not to féede them, but to sléese them,) by the same conueyances of Papall reseruations, commendaes, prouisions, and other such Egyptian t•ickes. An example of it in our xEnglish Chronicles of Henry the third: in whose dayes the Pope enioyned by one mandate to ye Bishops of Canterburie, Lincolne, and Sarisburie, that they should prouide for 1thrée hundred Romans in benefices next ••cant, and they should giue no benefice vntill they had p•ouided ⟨p. 387⟩for so many, 2competently. But what speake I of thrée hundred? The Romans and Italians were multiplyed so within a fewe yeares in English church liuings, by Gregorie the ninth much, but more by Innocentius the fourth: th•t *when the king caused a vewe thereof to bee taken throughout the whole realme, the summe of their reuenues was found to be yearely 3thrée score thousand markes, to the which summe the yearely reuenues of the crowne of England did not amount. The king though misliking the disorder greatly, yet being loth to medle with the redresse of it for feare of the Pope, (the stripes of whose wrath against his father king Iohn, against his coosen Otho the Emperour, and Othos successour Fridericke the second, were bleeding fresh before his eyes:)
xMatt. Paris in Henri•. tert. in the year 12•0.Matt. Paris in Henri•. tert. in the yeare 12•0.
1Trece•tis Romanis.
2Compe•e•ter.
*In the ye•re 1245.
3Sexagi••• […]. •• rum.Sexagi•••〈…〉. •• rum.
4Epist. magnatum & universitatis •eg•• Angliae ad ••nocent. Papam in Conc Lugdun.Epist. magnatum & vniuersitatis •eg•• Angliae ad ••nocent. Papam in Conc Lugdun.
5Italici, quorum nume•a• jam est infinitus.Italici, quorum nume•a iam est infinitus.
that England hoped for some relief of these grievances when Innocentius was made Pope, but now it is oppressed more out of measure by the Popes legate, who entering late into the land with larger power and commission then ever legate had, doth exceed excessively; he giveth to Italians some benefices already void, worth thirty marks or more yearly; some, that fall void by the decease of Italians, he thrusteth new Italians into; some he doth provide when they shall be void to be reserved for Italians; moreover, he wresteth out immoderate pensions from religious persons, and 7useth to excommunicate & interdict of Church-service, of sacraments, of Christian burial, them who gainsay him and resist him: upon this complaint the Nobles and Commons of the realm of England made humble suit unto his fatherhood, that he would extend the hand of mercy to his children, & ease them of those burdens of grievances and oppressions detestable to God and men. The messengers, by whom this supplication was sent, presented it before the ⟨p. 388⟩Pope unto the general Council. To whom they made complaint withal of a clause in the Popes *bulles, called [8 Non obstante,] by which he brake all laws and orders of the church to serve these his purposes. For whatsoever made against the tenor of his bull, he used to remove it with a Non obstante. As, for example, the Churches law and order confirmed by a Council, was, that one man should have but one benefice, and none should have any, but he, who could himself discharge the duty personally. The Pope zsendeth forth his bulls for five Romans, the son of Rumfrede, and such, and such, that they shall be provided for of so many benefices as may be worth to each of them a hundred pounde yearely, Non obstante that law. Pope Innocent was grieved at this supplication, and complaint of England, which touched his supremacy so near to the quick.y Howbeit for the present he made them fair promises, and sent them sundry privileges from the Council of Lyons: that Patrons thenceforth should 6freely present, and Bishops should admit fit persons to benefices, who would and could well serve the charge: that the Clerk of his Exchequer (that was his legate) should provide but for twelve moe, without consent of the Patrons;
that England hoped for some reliefe of these grieuances when Innocentius was made Pope, but now it is oppressed more out of measure by the Popes legat, who entring late into the land with larger power and commission then euer legate had, doth exceede excessiuely; he giueth to Italians some benefices alreadie voide, worth thirtie markes or more yearely; some, that fall voide by the decease of Italians, he thrusteth new Italians into; some he doth prouide when they shall be voide to be reserued for Italians; moreouer, he wresteth out immoderate pensions from religious persons, and 7vseth to excommunicate & interdict of Church-seruice, of sacraments, of Christian buriall, them who gainesay him and resist him: vpon this complaint the Nobles and Commons of the realme of England made humble sute vnto his fatherhood, that he wold extend the hand of mercy to his children, & ease them of those burdens of grieuances and oppressions detestable to God and men. The messengers, by whom this supplication was sent, presented it before the ⟨p. 388⟩Pope vnto the generall Councell. To whom they made complaint withall of a clause in the Popes *bulles, called [8 Non obstante,] by which hee brake all lawes and orders of the church to serue these his purposes. For whatsoeuer made against the tenor of his bull, he vsed to remoue it with a Non obstante. As, for example, the Churches law and order confirmed by a Councell, was, that one man should haue but one benefice, and none should haue any, but he, who could himselfe discharge the duetie personally. The Pope zsendeth forth his bulles for fiue Romans, the sonne of Rumfrede, and such, and such, that they shall be prouided for of so many benefices as may be worth to each of them a hundred pounde yearely, Non obstante that law. Pope Innocent was grieued at this supplication, and complaint of England, which touched his supremacie so néere to the quicke.y Howbeit for the present hee made them faire promises, and sent them sundry priuileges from the Councell of Lyons: that Patrones thenceforth should 6freely presente, and Bishops should admitte fit persons to benefices, who would and could well serue the charge: that the Clerke of his Escheker (that was his legate) should prouide but for twelue moe, without consent of the Patrones;
*The Popes letters are called bulls, of bul••, a tablet or boss: because a boss of lead […] hanged to t••m like a •••let, (having S. Peters image and S. Pauls on one side, the Popes name on the other) with the which they are sealed.The Popes letters are called buls, of bul••, a tablet or bosse: because a bosse of lead 〈…〉 hanged to t••m like a •••let, (hauing S. Peters image and S. Paules on one side, the Popes name on the other) with the which they are sealed.
8That is to say, Notwithstanding.
zMatt. Paris in Henrico tert in the year 1231.Matt. Paris in Henrico tert in the yere 1231.
that if English men would be studious, honest, and thankful, (chiefly the sons of Noble men,) he would provide for them also, *and dispense honourably with the worthiest of them for plurality of benefices; finally, that no Italian should immediately succeed an Italian; which was obtained for their treacheries, who when one that had a benefice was dead, would foist an other into his room. And these things were promised: but they were promised only. For after that the Council was dissolved once, the Pope played the Pope, and 8brake them all with Non obstante. And as aPharaoh hardened his hart against Israel, and laid more work upon them, when they desired ease of bondage: so did Innocent against England. In so much, that after six or seven years, when a view was taken again of the brick made of our English Israel for the Italian Pharaoh: the sum of those revenues which before amounted to three score thousand marks, bwas grown to three score thousand and ten with the advantage. Now if the outrage of this abomination were so monstrous in one realm▪ what was it in all, throughout the rest of ⟨p. 389⟩Christendom? If Popes did so exceed above three hundred years ago, in the prime of their Papacy, when the joints of it were yet scarcely knit: what is it likely they did after? If by one policy they brought so great wealth unto their Court and state, yea, by part of one applied to furnish their Italians: what may be thought of the same, applied to furnish the home-borne, each in their own country? What of so many others, some of them as fruitful as this, some more fruitful? What of their whole government: wherein they have claimed a fullness of power to do what they list, and they have put their claim in practise? What words may serve to utter the spoils which they have made of the Church of Christ; first, by ordaining of the Church-officers, in creating Bishops, Archbishops, Patriarchs, and weaving palls for them; in disannulling the elections of some who lawfully were chosen; in granting some (who could not be chosen lawfully) to have the rooms by postulations; in chopping and changing their persons from one See to an other by translations, and their dioceses by divisions; in giving pastors livings away •uer their heads by *reversions, or advowsons; in shaping new creatures, 1Preaching Friars, and 2Minorites, and giving them the power of pastors;
that if English men would be studious, honest, and thankeful, (chiefely the sonnes of Noble men,) he would prouide for them also, *and dispense honorably with the worthiest of them for pluralitie of benefices; finally, that no Italian should immediately succeede an Italian; which was obtained for their treacheries, who when one that had a benefice was dead, would foyst an other into his roome. And these thinges were promised: but they were promised onely. For after that the Councell was dissolued once, the Pope played the Pope, and 8brake them all with Non obstante. And as aPharao hardened his hart against Israel, and laied more worke vpon them, when they desired ease of bondage: so did Innocent against England. In so much, that after sixe or seuen yeares, when a vew was taken againe of the bricke made of our English Israel for ye Italian Pharao: ye summe of those reuenues which before amounted to three score thousand marks, bwas growne to three score thousand and ten with the aduantage. Now if the outrage of this abominat•on were so monstrous in one realme▪ what was it in all, throughout the rest of ⟨p. 389⟩Christendome? If Popes did so exceede aboue three hundred yeares ago, in the prime of their Papacie, when the iointes of it were yet scarsely knit: what is it likely they did after? If by one policy they brought so great wealth vnto their Court and state, yea, by part of one applyed to furnish their Italians: what may bee thought of the same, applied to furnish the home-borne, each in their owne countrie? What of so many others, some of them as fruitfull as this, some more fruitfull? What of their whole gouernment: wherein they haue claimed a fulnes of power to doo what they list, and they haue put their claime in practise? What wordes may serue to vtter the spoiles which they haue made of the Church of Christ; first, by ordeining of the Church-officers, in creating Bishops, Archbishops, Patriarkes, and weauing palls for them; in disanulling the elections of some who lawfully were chosen; in graunting some (who could not be chosen lawfully) to haue the roomes by postulations; in chopping and changing their persons from one Sée to an other by translations, and their dioceses by diuisions; in giuing pastours liuings away •uer their heads by
8Omnia haec & alia per hoc repagulun. [Non obstante] infirmantur. In the year 1246.Omnia haec & alia per hoc repagulun. [Non obstante] infirmantur. In the yeare 1246.
in dispensations with boys, dispensations with bastards, dispensations with idiots, that they may have the charge of souls; dispensations with murderers, with adulterers, with Simoniacs, that they may keep their benefices; dispensations for pluralities, that one may have twenty; dispensations for non-residence, that they need never come unto them; to be short, in reseruaes, accesses, regresses, coadiutories, unions, preventions, permutations, and a thousand such devises belonging to the market of benefices and bishoprics. Secondly, by dealing with the Church causes: wherein they have received appeals from all quarters, that they might fish in troubled water; they have fetched persons a thousand miles off by citations to their consistory; they have disturbed the peace and discipline of the Church by sending legates a latere, by putting matters to their delegates, by privileging men from laws, and exempting inferiors from their superiors regiment; they have multiplied human decrees, and made them snares to catch fowls, laws, that none shall marry in this or that degree of carnal kindred, ⟨p. 390⟩or 3spiritual; canons, that men whose persons have such or such a blemish shall not ascend to priestly orders; vows, of pilgrimage, of chastity, of poverty, of obedience, of Nunrie, Moonkry, Fryery; which all they have released for money; yea, they have released oaths, solemn oaths, and have given licences to commit perjury: they have made sale of forgiveness of sins, and merchandise of mens souls: they have turned repentance into pains of penance, and penance into mines of silver and gold: they have proclaimed Jubilees of pardons plenary (as they call them) to all who came to Rome every hundred year, and visited Churches there *devoutly: these Jubilees they have abridged from an hundred years to fifty, from fifty to thirty three, from thirty three to twenty five; & because all Christians came to not Rome for them, they have sent their peddlers abroad with p•ckes of pardons, that all might buy them at their doors: they have reserved cases and crimes of greatest value, as Simony, Sodomy, offence of Church-liberty, from which none might absolve but they: and, to absolve men upon doing of penance, they have built at Rome a Papal exchange called the Penitentiary, where these absolutions are sold at certain rates:
in dispensations with boyes, dispensations with bastards, dispensations with idiotes, that they may haue the charge of soules; dispensations with murderers, with adulterers, with Simoniaks, that they may kepe their benefices; dispensations for pluralities, that one may haue twentie; dispensations for non-residence, that they néede neuer come vnto them; to be short, in reseruaes, acces•es, regresses, coadiutories, vnions, preuentions, permutations, and a thousand such deuises belonging to the market of benefices and bishoprickes. Secondly, by dealing with the Church causes: wherein they haue receyued appeales from all quarters, that they might fish in troubled water; they haue fetched persons a thousand miles off by citations to their consistorie; they haue disturbed the peace and discipline of the Church by sending legates a latere, by putting matters to their delegates, by priuileging men from lawes, and exempting inferiours from their superiours regiment; they haue multiplied humaine decrees, and made them snares to catch foules, lawes, that none shall mary in this or that degrée of carnall kinred, ⟨p. 390⟩or 3spirituall; canons, that men whose persons haue such or such a blemish shall not ascend to priestly orders; vowes, of pilgrimage, of chastitie, of pouertie, of obedience, of Nunrie, Moonkry, Fryery; which all they haue released for money; yea, they haue released othes, solemne othes, and haue giuen licences to commit periurie: they haue made sale of forgiuenes of sinnes, and marchandize of mens soules: they haue turned repentance into paines of penance, and penance into mines of siluer and golde: they haue proclaimed Iubilees of pardons plenarie (as they call them) to all who came to Rome euery hundreth yeare, and visited Churches there *deuoutly: these Iubilees they haue abridged from an hundred yeares to fiftie, from fiftie to thirtie thrée, from thirtie thrée to twentie fiue; & because all Christians came to not Rome for them, they haue sent their pedlers abroad with p•ckes of pardons, that all might buye them at their doores: they haue reserued cases and crimes of greatest value, as Simonie, Sodomie, offense of Church-liberty, from which none might absolue but they: and, to absolue men vpon doing of penance, they haue built at Rome a Papall exchange called the Penitentiarie, where these absolutions are sold at certaine rates:
3Spiritual kindred, is a kindred imagined by the Pope to be betwixt them, who are linked by suretyship for […] in baptism, as godfathers, godmothers, godchildren godbrothers, godsisters, & gossips, as they are called.Spiritual kinred, is a kinred imagined by the Pope to be betwixt them, who are lincked by suretyship for 〈…〉 in baptisme, as godfathers, godmothers, godchildren godbrothers, godsisters, & gossyps, as they are called.
*Hic des devo••• coelestibus associote. Merits aegrotae per munera sunt ibi lotae. Ergo venitote gentes a seed re notae. Qui da cis, estote certi de divite dote.Hic des deuo••• coelestibus associote. Mentes aegrotae per munera sunt ibi lotae. Ergo venitote gentes a sede re notae. Qui da cis, estote certi de diuite dote.
neither being satisfied by this exchange with the living, they have sold their wares unto the dead also (but the living must pay for them,) so many crowns, so many souls to be forgiven all their sins, and rid out of the pains of purgatory. Thirdly, by disposing of the Church-goods, which they have conveyed (as cthe unjust, but wise steward ▪) from the Lord to serve them selves: they have charged the livings of Churches and Churchmen with pensions, tributes, subsidies: they have exacted of them fifteens, tenths, fifths, thirds, moieties of their substance, to the maintenance of wars which they have waged with the Emperors: they have robbed benefices to enrich Abbeys by appropriations, that afterward themselves might glean the greater fruit of Abbeys: they have made Prelates, and such as would be Prelates, to compound with them selves, for 4palls, for crosier-staves, for mitres, for rings, for signing of bills, and to compound with their servants for writing, perusing, subscribing, allowing, conferring, registering, taxing, receiving, keeping, delivering, and for the cord and lead, wherewith their bulls are tied and sealed: they have devised new officers, ⟨p. 391⟩yea new herds and companies of officers in their chancery, purposely to this intent that they might sell those rooms, the which being sold for many thousand crowns they forced poor suitors, who came to Rome for grace or justice, to pay it, by enhancing the charges of their bulls: the army of their Registers, Notaries, Protonotaries, Inditers, Writers, Abridgers, Dataries, Rescribendaries, Accounters, Solicitors, 5Plummers, Regarders, Regents, Poursuivants, Clerks of their Ceremonies, Clerks of their chamber, Clerks of their exchequer, and infinite other peasants they have kept in wages with the price of Christians blood: they have raised an yearly and ordinary revenue of first fruits, of tithes, of the goods of Abbots, Bishops, and Cardinals deceased, which they have seized upon, as executors, and when they have licensed them to make testaments, yet have they kept them selves a share, as, of every Cardinal (beside five hundred ducats which he payeth for his 6ring) all his chapel-jewels, ornaments, and vessels, whether of gold or silver, crosses, candlesticks, chalices, Images, and other such escheats:
neither being satisfied by this exchaunge with the liuing, they haue sold their wares vnto the dead also (but ye liuing must pay for them,) so many crownes, so many soules to be forgiuen all their sinnes, and rid out of the paines of purgatorie. Thirdly, by disposing of the Church-goods, which they haue conueyed (as cthe vniust, but wise steward ▪) from the Lord to serue them selues: they haue charged the liuinges of Churches and Churchmen with pensions, tributes, subsidies: they haue exacted of them fifteenes, tenthes, fiftes, thirdes, moyities of their substance, to the maintenance of warres which they haue waged with the Emperours: they haue robbed benefices to enrich Abbeies by appropriations, that afterwarde themselues might gleane the greater fruit of Abbeyes: they haue made Prelates, and such as would be Prelates, to compound with them selues, for 4palls, for crosier-staues, for miters, for ringes, for signing of billes, and to compound with their seruants for writing, perusing, subscribing, allowing, conferring, registring, taxing, receyuing, keeping, deliuering, and for the coarde and lead, wherewith their bulles are tyed and sealed: they haue deuised new officers, ⟨p. 391⟩yea new heardes and companies of officers in their chauncery, purposely to this intent that they might sell those roomes, the which being sold for many thousand crownes they forced poore suters, who came to Rome for grace or iustice, to pay it, by enhauncing the charges of their bulles: the armie of their Registers, Notaries, Protonotaries, Enditers, Writers, Abridgers, Dataries, Rescribendaries, Accounters, Soliciters, 5Plummers, Regarders, Regentes, Poursuiuants, Clerkes of their Ceremonies, Clerkes of their chamber, Clerkes of their eschequer, and infinite other peasantes they haue kept in wages with the price of Christians bloud: they haue raised an yearely and ordinarie reuenue of first fruites, of tithes, of the goods of Abbats, Bishops, and Cardinals deceased, which they haue seazed vpon, as exectors, and when they haue licensed them to make testaments, yet haue they kept them selues a share, as, of euery Cardinall (beside fiue hundred ducates which he payeth for his 6ring) all his chappell-iewels, ornaments, and vessels, whether of gold or siluer, crosses, candlestickes, chalices, Images, and other such eschetes:
4Pa•les are little tipets made of holy wool of the Popes lambs. A toad whereof is worth him more then a kings ransom. For the power of Archbishops & Patriarchs doth lye in them. And they who will weare them, must fetch them far, and buy them •eare.Pa•les are litle tipets made of holy wooll of the Popes lambes. A todde wherof is worth him more then a kinges ransom. For the power of Archbishops & Patriarkes doth lye in them. And they who will weare them, must fetch them far, and buye them •eare.
5Plumba•• res. So they call the clerks of the signet, because they seal with leadPlumba•• res. So they cal the cle•kes of the signet, because they seale with lead
6The Pope doth give a ring to him whom he createth Cardinal. And for that ring the Cardinal at his death must pay the Pope five hundred ducats ▪ which is some what dearer then goldsmiths sell them in cheapside.The Pope doth giue a ring to him whom he createth Cardinal. And for that ring the Cardinall at his death must pay the Pope fiue hundred ducats ▪ which is some what deerer then goldsmiths sell them in cheapside.
and, in a word, their gins & hooks have been so many to get the goods of men out of all coasts, into their coffers, that da Roman Courtier saith, *the Popes exchequer is like unto the Sea, whereinto all rivers do run, and yet it overfloweth not. Fourthly, by abusing of the Church censures: for what else should I call it? when they have used them as instruments of violence, to compass all that they did covet. If any, either Patron, or Bishop, or Archbishop refused to commit the charge of English flocks to Roman pastors, or rather wolves: if any reproved the wicked sale and godless chaffer of their dispensations, absolutions, pardons: if any would not yield to pay them such taxes as they required by their legates, their merchants, their collectors, their nuntios, spies, & poursuivants: straight, as the person was, so came a censure out against him, either suspension from administering his office, or interditement from use of Church-service, or excommunication from the fellowship of Christians, or citing him to Rome to chastise him by correption, or denouncing him an heretic if he continued rebellious, and then the secular power must burn him. A practise so common, that ordinarily the Auditor of the Popes Exchequer is authorized to excommunicate and execute other ⟨p. 392⟩censures, if the Courtesans, (who pay tribute for license to be common whores) & other farmers of holy rents, keep not touch in bringing in. And because these censures have not prevailed always to achieve their purposes: therefore as they enlarged them against civill powers to purchase somewhat thence, (as from the king of England, beside his Peter-pence, a thousand marks yearly, which yet was but a petty-larceny:) so they strengthened them against ecclesiastical by the oath of fealty (which they have won of Prelates,) to maintain the Papacy and royalties of S. Peter. Chiefly by winding in authority withal, that they may deprive them, and none may deprive Bishops, but they. That if Bishops will not agree to them in all things, when they are commanded in virtue of obedience: yet for fear of losing their livings and promotions, yea their liberty, yea their life, (if they be in the Popes subjection) they may learn to serve their Lord. But the head of all, whereby those wild boars have made the chiefest wast of the Lords vineyard, is the fifth and last point:
and, in a word, their ginnes & hookes haue béene so many to get the goods of men out of al coastes, into their coffers, that da Roman Courtier saith, *the Popes eschequer is like vnto the Sea, whereinto all riuers doo runne, and yet it ouerfloweth not. Fourthly, by abusing of the Churchcensures: for what els should I call it? when they haue vsed them as instruments of violence, to compasse all that they did couet. If any, eyther Patrone, or Bishop, or Archbishop refused to commit the charge of English flockes to Roman pastors, or rather woolues: if any reproued the wicked sale and godlesse chaffer of their dispensations, absolutions, pardons: if any would not yeelde to pay them such taxes as they required by their legats, their marchants, their collectors, their nuntios, spies, & poursuiuāts: straight, as ye person was, so came a censure out against him, either suspension from administring his office, or interditement from vse of Church-seruice, or excommunication from the felowship of Christians, or citing him to Rome to chastise him by correption, or denouncing him an heretike if he continued rebellious, and then the secular power must burne him. A practise so common, that ordinarily the Auditour of the Popes Eschequer is autorized to excommunicate and execute other ⟨p. 392⟩censures, if the Courtisans, (who pay tribute for license to bee common whoores) & other farmers of holy rents, kepe not touch in bringing in. And because these censures haue not preuailed alwayes to atchieue their purposes: therefore as they enlarged them against ciuill powers to purchase somewhat thence, (as from the king of England, beside his Peter-pence, a thousand markes yearely, which yet was but a pety-larceny:) so they strengthned them against ecclesiasticall by the othe of fealty (which they haue woon of Prelats,) to maintaine the Papacie and royalties of S. Peter. Chiefly by winding in autoritie withal, that they may depriue them, and none may depriue Bishops, but they. That if Bishops will not agrée to them in all thinges, when they are commanded in vertue of obedience: yet for feare of léesing their liuinges and promotions, yea their libertie, yea their life, (if they be in the Popes subiection) they may learne to serue their Lord. But the head of all, whereby those wilde boares haue made the chiefest wast of the Lordes vineyarde, is the fifth and last point:
dTheodoric. a Niem in Nemor. union. T•act. 6. cap. 37.Theodori•. a Niem in Nemor. vnion. T•act. 6. cap. 37.
*Camera Apo•to ica assimilatur mari. in quod intrant omnia flumina, & non inundat.
their making and establishing of the Church-laws. For if they had done, and only done these villainies: they might seem to have done them, as men, not as Popes; and it might be hoped, when one tyrant were gone, the next would govern well. But they have confirmed the doing of them by their laws, and procured those laws to be received as canons & rules of the Church-government: their Decretals, their Clementines, their Extravagants, in deed extravagant, their constitutions Apostolic, and their unruly rules of the Apostolic chancery. The gross intent and practise whereof is so palpable, that Budaeus, a learned lawyer, the French kings secretary, making a complaint of the great disorder of the Popes, and clergy, doth lay the blame thereof upon their laws and jurisdiction. eIt is grown (saith he) so much out of kind from the ancient love, that where there was wont to be a motherly lap of equity and goodness, there seemeth now to be 1a shop of law-quarrels, and lewder means to gain by. Thence come those snares of processes, and cautions of the Popes ordinances, 2devised to deceive the household of the Lord. Thence come the punishments of sin by the purse, to the increase of Prelates profits. Thence 3the sacrilegious & cursed sales of those things ⟨p. 393⟩which cannot be brought into mens traffic without abomination. I omit 4their dispensations, which give leave for money to sin without punishment, and licence the breach of sacred laws for filthy lucre. So the holy canons and rules of church discipline, made in better times to guide the life of clergy men: are now become 5leaden rules, such as Aristotle saith the rules of Lesbian building were. For as leaden and soft rules do not direct the building with an equal tenor, but are bowed to the building at the lust of the builders: so are the Popes canons made flexible as lead and wax, that 6now this great while the decrees of our ancestors, and the Popes canons serve not to guide mens manners, but (that I may so say) 7to make a bank and get money. These things *wrote Budaeus, before Luther stirred against the Popes pardons. So manifestly tended the laws of the Popes to their own profit, and not to the Churches, even in the eyes of sober Papists. And thus have you the sum of that which I said you might learn by the writings of your own men, Onuphrius, and Sansovinus.
their making and establishing of the Church-lawes. For if they had doon, and onely doon these vilanies: they might séeme to haue doon them, as men, not as Popes; and it might be hoped, when one tyrant were gone, the next would gouerne well. But they haue confirmed the dooing of them by their lawes, and procured those lawes to be receiued as canons & rules of the Church-gouernment: their Decretals, their Clementines, their Extrauagants, in déed extrauagant, their constitutions Apostolike, and their vnruly rules of the Apostolike chauncerie. The grosse intent and practise whereof is so palpable, that Budaeus, a learned lawier, the French kinges secretarie, making a complaint of the great disorder of the Popes, and clergie, doth lay the blame thereof vpon their lawes and iurisdiction. eIt is growne (saith he) so much out of kinde from the auncient loue, that where there was wont to be a motherly lappe of equitie and goodnes, there seemeth now to be 1a shoppe of law-quarels, and lewder meanes to gaine by. Thence come those snares of processes, and cautions of the Popes ordinances, 2deuised to deceiue the houshold of the Lord. Thence come the punishments of sinne by the purse, to the encrease of Prelates profits. Thence 3the sacrilegious & cursed sales of those things ⟨p. 393⟩which cannot be brought into mens traffike without abomination. I omit 4their dispensations, which giue leaue for money to sinne without punishment, and licence the breach of sacred lawes for filthie lucre. So the holy canons and rules of church discipline, made in better times to guide the life of cle•gie men: are now become 5leaden rules, such as Aristotle saith the rules of Lesbian building were. For as leaden and soft rules doo not direct the building with an equall tenour, but are bowed to the building at the lust of the builders: so are the Popes canons made flexible as lead and waxe, that 6now this great while the decrees of our auncestors, and the Popes canons serue not to guide mens maners, but (that I may so say)
eGulielmus Budaeus de asse & partibus eius, lib. 5.
1Litium officina capturarū que improb•orum.Litium officina capturarū que improb•orum.
2Ad circumscribendam familiam Domini concinnatae.Ad circumscribendam familiam Domini cōcinnatae.
3Sacrilegae mundinae.
4Tesseras non modó veniales sed etiam •ae•• les.
5In amusse• plumbea• e•asisle, •uis non videt•
6Jam diu.Iam diu.
7Arg•ntariae facutandae.
*In the year of Christ 1514. about a three years before •eo the tenth grew to that outrage which Luther dealt against. […] lib. 13. Slei•an. lib. 1.In the yere of Christ 1514. about a three yeares before •eo the tenth grew to that outrage which Luther dealt against. 〈…〉 lib. 13. Slei•an. lib. 1.
For whereas the Fathers of the Council of Basil, intending and endeavouring to reform the Church, did straiten the fullness of the Popes power, by fcutting off the most of his reservations, all his gadvowsons, and hcompositions; by abridging his icitations, kdispensations, lappeals, mthe number and livings of his Cardinals; and chiefly by ndefining (after the oCouncil of Constance,) that the Pope is bound to obey the Council, and so is subject to it: pOnuphrius saith thereof, that they under pretence of reforming the church did seek to take away and abrogate altogether the most of 1the privileges of the church of Rome, yea them that were 2most needful. Which sentence bewrayeth the mysteries that I spake off, if it be marked well. Chiefly, if it be joined with his qdiscourse of Cardinals, and rstory of the Popes lives: wherein he declareth to what end they used those most needful privileges. Howbeit, in *their practise of the fowlest of them, he is somewhat close: and partly doth smooth them, partly doth pass them over. But Sansovinus is more open: though as a friend also of the Popes state. ⟨p. 394⟩For, setting forth sthe government of the Court of Rome, first, in the Consistory; next, in the Penitentiary; then, in the Courts of requests, one of grace, the other of justice; afterward, in the Chancery; and last of all in the Exchequer: he toucheth in effect as much as I have said of the excesses of the Popes, in ordaining the officers, dealing with the causes, disposing the goods, abusing the censures, and making laws of the Church. Yea, a point more; which showeth manifestly their growing out of kind from Bishoply state to Princely: to wit, that there is an ordinary Prelate, called *the Vicar of Rome, to whom they have committed the charge of all those things within the Roman diocese, that belong to any Bishop in his diocese, and so to them in theirs, as Bishops of Rome properly. In fine, if any branch of the particular points, wherewith I have charged them, be not so plain and full in Sansovinus, or Onuphrius: I shall declare it farther, and prove it, if you will, by the records, and testimonies of your own tChroniclers, uAntiquaries, xLawyers, yDoctors, and zPopes. Whereupon I am content to make even your self judge, M.
For whereas the Fathers of the Councell of Basill, entending and endeuouring to reforme the Church, did straiten the fulnes of the Popes power, by fcutting off the most of his reseruations, all his gaduowsons, and hcompositions; by abbridging his icitations, kdispensations, lappeales, mthe number and liuinges of his Cardinals; and chiefly by ndefining (after the oCouncell of Constance,) that the Pope is bound to obey the Councell, and so is subiect to it: pOnuphrius saith thereof, that they vnder pretense of reforming the church did seeke to take away and abrogate altogether the most of 1the priuileges of the church of Rome, yea them that were 2most needfull. Which sentence bewrayeth the mysteries that I spake off, if it be marked well. Chiefly, if it be ioyned with his qdiscourse of Cardinals, and rstorie of the Popes liues: wherein he declareth to what end they vsed those most needful priuileges. Howbeit, in *their practise of the fowlest of them, hee is somewhat close: and partly doth smooth them, partly doth passe them ouer. But Sansouinus is more open: though as a fréend also of the Popes state. ⟨p. 394⟩
fConcil. Basil. Session. 7.12.23. & 31.
gSess. 31.
hSess. 12.21. & 23.
iSess. 31.
kSess. 26.
lSess. 20. & 31.
mSess. 4. & 23.
nSess. 2.3.18.26.31▪ & 33▪
oConcil. Constant. Sess. 4. & •
pIn •oman. Pontif. & Cardinalib.
1Privilegi•.Priuilegi•.
2Magis necessaria.
qDe episcop. tit. & diacon. Cardinalium.
rIn vitis Po• tificum ad•unctis Platinae.
*As namely in the lives of Alexā •er ye sixth and Leo […] tenth.As namely in the liues of Alexā •er ye sixth and Leo 〈…〉 tenth.
sGoverno della Corte Roman. Del gou. de reg. & delle repub. lib. 11.Gouerno della Corte Roman. Del gou. de reg. & delle repub. lib. 11.
Hart, (if the bogs of Popery have not quenched all sparkles of conscience, and judgement in you,) whether that the Pope hath not erred in office, and changed his Bishops See into a Princes Court, and usurped the power of imperial State through shows of Church-government: by rebelling against the Emperor, and wresting his dominions from him; by for•ing kings, and nations to serve him, as vassals; by robbing peoples of their pastors, pastors of their livings, the rude of instruction, the loose of correction, the distressed of comfort, the poor of relief and (to conclude) the Christian Church of doctrine, discipline, and hospitality.
⟨p. 395⟩John Rainoldes to the Christian reader.
When I sent this part of our conference to M. Hart, that, if any thing in his own speeches were not to his mind, he might add, or alter, as he thought good: I penned not his answer to my former speech, but wrote these words under it.
I pray, M. Hart, make and pen your own answer to this last speech of mine. If you can justify the Pope in those things which I have laid unto his charge: I will subscribe to all Popery. If you cannot: acknowledge his supremacy to be unlawful.
John Rainoldes.
To this request, & offer, M. Hart sent me his answer in writing. Which I have set down (here following) word for word, and so have proceeded on in our conference, as he desired me to do.
If you speak unfeignedly, M. Rainoldes, as I trust you do:1 I must love you the better for your plain dealing in so weighty a matter. That you do not see how the Pope may be justified, (I speak not of his naughty and corrupt manners, but of his supreme and sovereign authority, which is, as I take it, agreeable to the Scripture, and Christs own appointment:) it seemeth to me that your error herein proceedeth of a wrong persuasion, that he had not that authority by right, but usurped it. Which is not so: as I have already showed in part, and now will prove unto you farther. For it is so far off from being usurped authority, that if we will weigh things but with indifferency and in equal balance, you shall well perceive that both Emperors, and other Princes adjoining unto him, have rather usurped of his, then he of theirs. In so much that a good author doth write that through the Popes negligent looking unto ⟨p. 396⟩it, S. Peters patrimony is greatly diminished.
Hart, (if the bogges of Popery haue not quenched all sparkles of conscience, and iudgement in you,) whether that the Pope hath not erred in office, and changed his Bishops Sée into a Princes Court, and vsurped the power of imperiall State through shewes of Church-gouernment: by rebelling against the Emperour, and wresting his dominions from him; by for•ing kings, and nations to serue him, as vasals; by robbing peoples of their pastors, pastors of their liuings, the rude of instruction, the loose of correction, the distressed of comfort, the poore of reliefe and (to conclude) the Christian Church of doctrine, discipline, and hospitalitie.
⟨p. 395⟩Iohn Rainoldes to the Christian reader.
When I sent this part of our conference to M. Hart, that, if any thing in his owne speeches were not to his minde, he might adde, or alter, as he thought good: I penned not his answere to my former speech, but wrote these wordes vnder it.
I pray, M. Hart, make and penne your owne answere to this last speech of mine. If you can iustifie the Pope in those things which I haue laid vnto his charge: I will subscribe to all Popery. If you cannot: acknowlege his sumacie to be vnlawfull.
Iohn Rainoldes.
To this request, & offer, M. Hart sent me his answere in writing. Which I haue set downe (here following) word for word, and so haue proceeded on in our conference, as he desired me to doo.
If you speake vnfainedly, M. Rainoldes, as I trust you doo:1 I must loue you the better for your plaine dealing in so weightie a matter. That you doo not see how the Pope may be iustified, (I speake not of his naughtie and corrupt maners, but of his supreme and soueraine authoritie, which is, as I take it, agreeable to the Scripture, and Christes owne appointment:) it séemeth to me that your errour herein procéedeth of a wrong perswasion, that he had not that authoritie by right, but vsurped it. Which is not so: as I haue alreadie shewed in part, and now will proue vnto you farther. For it is so farre off from being vsurped authoritie, that if we will weigh thinges but with indifferencie and in equall balance, you shall well perceiue that both Emperours, and other Princes adioyning vnto him, haue rather vsurped of his, then he of theirs. In so much that a good autour doth write that through the Popes negligent looking vnto ⟨p. 396⟩it, S. Peters patrimonie is greatly diminished.
Yea, perhaps, it is much less now at this time, (how great or how lordly soever it seem in your eye,) then it was in the very best times almost thirteen hundred years since. For, to begin with the donation of Constantine the great, he, (as Eugubinus writeth) resigned to S. Sylvester Pope and to his successors the city of Rome with all his Imperial robes, and ornaments, him self retiring to Constantinople, where he abode as in his Imperial seat, as also many other Emperors after him for many years together did, keeping still either at Constantinople in the east, or else at Milan and Ravenna in the west. And this to be a certain story of the gift of Constantine to the Bishops of Rome, besides very many witnesses which here I could cite for proof thereof, as Ammianus Marcellinus a heathen, who was sorry to see it, Photius Constantinopolitanus, no favourer of the Pope neither and a Grecian borne, Nicephorus, and many moe besides, as you may read in the Chronicles: S. Damasus, who lived about the same time, and saw Constantine himself, doth write of the said donation and gift of the Emperor. Which gift moreover, to put it out of all doubt, was confirmed a hundred years after by the Emperor Justinian, by Arithpert king of the Lombards, by king Pippin of France, Charles the great, holy king Lewes, and lastly by Otho the great at a Council holden at Ravenna, as your own men in their Centuries do grant and confess. For although they say withal that this increase of wealth in the Church of Rome began after S. Gregory's time; yet are they notably disproved by S. Gregory himself, in whose reign, (as it may probably be thought,) the Churches possessions were more then they be now at this present. And this appeareth by sundry of his epistles, where he maketh express mention of S. Peters patrimony in Africa, in Naples, in Campania, in Dalmatia, in France, in Italy, in Sicily, in Sardinia, and in many other countries. Now then whereas for this which is the greatest part, so good proofs may be made: there is no doubt but for sundry other very great and large gifts of divers Princes, many Nobles, men and women, which were bestowed upon that See, the Bishops thereof can show very good evidence when need shall require.
Yea, perhaps, it is much lesse now at this time, (how great or how lordly soeuer it seeme in your eye,) then it was in the very best times almost thirtéene hundred yeares since. For, to beginne with the donation of Constantine the great, he, (as Eugubinus writeth) resigned to S. Syluester Pope and to his successors the citie of Rome with all his Imperiall roabes, and ornaments, him selfe retyring to Constantinople, where he abode as in his Imperiall seate, as also many other Emperours after him for many yeares togither did, kéeping still either at Constantinople in the east, or els at Milan and Rauenna in the west. And this to be a certaine storie of the gift of Constantine to the Bishops of Rome, besides very many witnesses which here I could cite for proofe therof, as Ammianus Marcellinus a heathen, who was sorie to sée it, Photius Constantinopolitanus, no fauourer of the Pope neither and a Grecian borne, Nicephorus, and many moe besides, as you may reade in the Chronicles: S. Damasus, who liued about the same time, and saw Constantine himselfe, doth write of the said donation and gift of the Emperour. Which gift moreouer, to put it out of all doubt, was confirmed a hundred yeares after by the Emperour Iustinian, by Arithpert king of the Lombardes, by king Pipine of Fraunce, Charles the great, holy king Lewes, and lastly by Otho the great at a Councell holden at Rauenna, as your owne men in their Centuries doo graunt and confesse. For although they say withall that this encrease of wealth in the Church of Rome began after S. Gregories time; yet are they notably disproued by S. Gregorie himselfe, in whose reigne, (as it may probably be thought,) the Churches possessions were more then they be now at this present. And this appeereth by sundry of his epistles, where he maketh expresse mention of S. Peters patrimonie in Africke, in Naples, in Campania, in Dalmatia, in Fraunce, in Italie, in Sicilia, in Sardinia, and in many other countries. Now then whereas for this which is the greatest part, so good proofes may be made: there is no doubt but for sundry other very great and large giftes of diuers Princes, many Nobles, men and women, which were bestowed vpon that Sée, the Bishops thereof can shew very good euidence when nede shall require.
Marry, if any of all the Bishops that ever were in that seat, flowing thus in wealth, abused the same to any evil ⟨p. 397⟩purpose, or else their authority when they were become so mighty, in any of the points which are mentioned by you: I am so far off from justifying them therein, that rather I r•w to see it and I condemn them therefore. But thereof we shall have occasion to treat more particularly in the chapters following. Only this is it which I go about to prove and defend in them, that because of Christs promise, of building his Church upon that rock; and prayer also that their faith should not fail, they never erred in judgement or definitive sentence. And thus much I am sure the very same authors, whose names here you bring in against me, do maintain no less then I do, howsoever they carp and find fault with the Popes naughty manners. Wherefore to draw to an end, whether all that hath been said hitherto, or shall be said hereafter touching the practise of the Popes supremacy do prove his supreme authority or not: I refer the judgement thereof M. Rainoldes, to your self, and to every indifferent reader. Certes I have endeavoured somewhat to do it, though nothing so well, I grant, as such a cause requireth. But as I said you shall see it proved yet furthermore by the practise thereof which the Bishop of Rome hath always used, bearing himself as supreme pastor of our souls next under Christ: which thing was never denied him but granted of all men without resistance. Let their speeches, and deeds be a justifying of him: and let their behaviour generally towards him be an instruction for us to follow them in their well doing.
John Hart.
Marry, if any of all the Bishops that euer were in that seat, flowing thus in wealth, abused the same to any euill ⟨p. 397⟩purpose, or els their authoritie when they were become so mightie, in any of the pointes which are mentioned by you: I am so farre off from iustifying them therein, that rather I r•w to sée it and I condemne them therefore. But thereof wee shall haue occ•sion to treate more particularly in the chapters folowing. Onely this is it which I go about to proue and defend in them, that because of Christes promise, of building his Church vpon that rocke; and prayer also that their faith should not faile, they neuer erred in iudgement or definitiue sentence. And thus much I am sure the very same autours, whose names here you bring in against me, do mainteine no lesse then I doo, howsoeuer they carpe and finde fault with the Popes naughtie maners. Wherefore to drawe to an ende, whether all that hath béene said hithertoo, or shall be said hereafter touching the practise of the Popes supremacie doo proue his supreme authoritie or not: I referre the iudgement thereof M. Rainoldes, to your selfe, and to euery indifferent reader. Certes I haue endeuored somewhat to doo it, though nothing so wel, I graunt, as such a cause requireth. But as I said you shall sée it proued yet furthermore by the practise thereof which the Bishop of Rome hath alwaies vsed, bearing himselfe as supreme pastour of our soules next vnder Christ: which thing was neuer denyed him but graunted of all men without resistance. Let their spéeches, and déedes bee a iustifying of him: and let their behauiour generally towardes him bée an instruction for vs to folow them in their well dooing.
Iohn Hart.
Rainoldes. If you love me the better, M. Hart, for my plain dealing in so weighty a matter, as you say you must: I would to God you would deal as plainly with me, that I might in like sort love you the better too. But neither do you yield to that which I have proved by evidence of truth: and although you cannot disprove my proofs of it, yet you seek to shift them off by fraud and falsehood. For whereas I showed that the Pope pretending discharge of his office in government of the Church, hath gotten his temporal dominion from Emperors by treason, and rebellion; and practised unlawful power in things spiritual to the oppressing of Christendom; and therefore ⟨p. 398⟩erred in office, yea, in the supremacy which he hath usurped over both the states spiritual and temporal: you, for the first point of his dominion temporal, do go about to clear him by sophisms, and lies; for the next of his tyranny in spiritual things, you smooth it, as a lawful authority abused; for the last of his erring in office, you abridge it to judgement and definitive sentence; and wrap his supremacy up in general words as allowed by all men, when in the particular points of the supremacy you can not justify it by any. aFestus the Roman thought Paul to be mad: the madness was in Festus him self, no• in Paul. You think that I err of a wrong persuasion: the error is your own, not mine, M. Hart. The faults of your dealing for the maintaining of your error, I will set before you: if perhaps the Lord will open your eyes, and untie your tongue, that you may at length perceive and confess the Popes supremacy to be unlawful. To begin therefore with the first point wherein you seek to clear him from having usurped his temporal dominion▪ you say, that if we weigh things with indifferency, and in equal balance, I shall well perceive that both Emperors and other Princes adjoining unto him have rather usurped of his, then he of theirs. Which, if you took not things at hucksters hands without all weighing of them, you would never say. For, that which I have laid in one scale of the balance, is the manifest truth of records, & evidences, approved by the witness of writers very credible, who note the times, the persons, the means, and all circumstances how the Pope usurped.
Rainoldes. If you loue me the better, M. Hart, for my plaine dealing in so weightie a matter, as you say you must: I would to God you would deale as plainely with me, that I might in like sort loue you the better too. But neither doo you yéelde to that which I haue proued by euidence of tru•h: and although you cannot disproue my proofes of it, yet you seeke to shift them off by fraude and falsehood. For whereas I shewed that the Pope pretending discharge of his office in gouernment of the Church, hath gotten his temporall dominion from Emperours by tre•son, and rebellion; and practised vnlaw•ull power in thinges spirituall to the oppressing of Christendome; and therefore ⟨p. 398⟩erred in office, yea, in the supremacie which he hath vsurped ouer both the states spirituall and temporall: you, for the first point of his dominion temporall, doo go about to cléere him by sophismes, and lyes; for the next of his tyrannie in spiritual things, you smooth it, as a lawfull autoritie abused; for the last of his erring in office, you abbridge it to iudgement and definitiue sentence; and wrappe his supremacie vp in generall wordes as allowed by all men, when in the particular pointes of the supremacie you can not iustifie it by any. aFestus the Roman thought Paul to bee madde: the madnes was in Festus him selfe, no• in Paul. You thinke that I erre of a wrong perswasion: the errour is your owne, not mine, M. Hart. The fautes of your dealing for the maintaining of your errour, I will set before you: if perhaps the Lorde will open your eyes, and vntye your tongue, that you may at length perceiue and confesse the Popes supremacie to be vnlawfull. To begin therefore with the first point wherein you séeke to cléere him from hauing vsurped his temporall dominion▪ you say, that if we weigh thinges with indifferencie, and in equall balance, I shall wel perceiue that both Emperours and other Princes adioyning vnto him haue rather vsurped of his, then hee of theirs. Which, if you tooke not thinges at hucksters handes without all weighing of them, you would neuer say. For, that which I haue laide in one scale of the balance, is the manifest truth of recordes, & euidences, approued by the witnesse of writers verie credible, who note the times, the persons, the meanes, and all circumstances how the Pope vsurped.
And that which you lay in the other scale, to overweigh mine, is partly impertinent, and nothing to the purpose: partly untrue, and impudently forged. The weightiest parcel of it, is that which cometh foremost, namely, that a good author doth write, that S. Peters patrimony is greatly diminished through the Popes negligent looking unto it. What is that good author (M. Hart) who writeth so? Why do you not name him? Is it because you fear that I should find he maketh nought for you, if I knew him? or that you would put me to the pains of seeking him? I pray use hereafter at least so much plainness, to name me the authors, on which your proofs are grounded: sith I not only name them, but quote their places also whereon I ground mine, that you ⟨p. 399⟩may the better sift them, and judge of them. The author, who writeth that which you allege, is *Nicolas Clemangis, a Doctor of Paris, that lived about a ninescore years since: in deed a good author. Who lamenting the wretched and corrupt state of the Church in his time, declareth the Pope to have been the firebrand of her calamities and disorders, in that, bnot contented with the fruits and profits of the Bishopric of Rome and S. Peters patrimony, though very great and royal, he laid his greedy hands on other mens flocks replenished with milk and wool; and cusurped the right of bestowing Bishoprics, and livings ecclesiastical throughout all Christendom; and ddisannulled the lawful elections of pastors by his reservations, eprovisions, and fadvowsons; and goppressed churches with first fruits of one year, of two years, of three years, yea sometimes of •oure years, with tithes, with exactions, with procurations, with spoils of Prelates, and infinite other burdens; and hordained collectors to seize upon these taxes and tributes throughout all provinces, with horrible abusing of suspensions, interditements, and excommunications, if any man refused to pay them; & used such merchandise with isuites in his kCourt, and rules of his Chancery, lthat the house of God was made a den of thieves; and raised his Cardinals, as complices of mhis pomp, from Clergy-men of lowest state to be the peers of Princes;
And that which you lay in the other scale, to ouerweigh mine, is partlie impertinent, and nothing to the purpose: partlie vntrue, and impudentlie forged. The weightiest parcel of it, is that which cometh formost, namely, that a good autour doth write, that S. Peters patrimonie is greatly diminished through the Popes negligent looking vnto it. What is that good autour (M. Hart) who writeth so? Why doo you not name him? Is it because you feare that I should finde he maketh nought for you, if I knew him? or that you would put me to the paines of séeking him? I pray vse hereafter at least so much plainenesse, to name me the autours, on which your proofes are grounded: sith I not onely name them, but quote their places also whereon I ground mine, that you ⟨p. 399⟩may the better sift them, and iudge of them. The autour, who writeth that which you alleage, is *Nicolas Clemangis, a Doctour of Paris, that liued about a ninescore yeares since: in déed a good autour. Who lamenting the wretched and corrupt state of the Church in his time, declareth the Pope to haue béene the fi•ebrand of her calamities and disorders, in that, bnot contented with the fruites and profits of the Bishopricke of Rome and S. Peters patrimonie, though very great and royal, he laide his greedy handes on other mens flockes replenished with milke and wooll; and cvsurped the right of bestowing Bishoprickes, and liuings ecclesiasticall throughout all Christendom; and ddisanulled the lawfull elections of pastors by his reseruations, eprouisions, and faduowsons; and goppres•ed churches with first fruites of one yeare, of two yeares, of three yeares, yea sometimes of •oure yeares, with tithes, with exactions, with procurations, with spoiles of Prelates, and infinite other burdens; and h
*De corrupto ecclesiae statu: or (as in Gerson it is entitled,) De vitijs ministrorum ecclesiae.
but receiued onely the fruites & reuenues, and caried them out of the realme: that the yearely rents of Italians in England amounted to three score thousand markes, and vpward, besides diuers other auailes, which they reaped where they sowed not:
•
6Fructus tantum percipiunt, extra regnum aspo•tantes.Fructus tantum percipiunt, ex•ra regnum aspo•tantes.
wrote Budaeus, before Luther stirred against the Popes pardons. So manifestly tended the lawes of the Popes to their owne profit, and not to the Churches, euen in the eyes of sober Papistes. And thus haue you the summe of that which I said you might learne by the writings of your owne men, Onuphrius, and Sansouinus.
the gouernment of the Court of Rome, first, in the Consistorie; next, in the Penitentiarie; then, in ye Courts of requestes, one of grace, the other of iustice; afterwarde, in the Chauncerie; and last of all in the Escheker: he toucheth in effect as much as I haue said of the excesses of the Popes, in ordeining the officers, dealing with the causes, disposing the goods, abusing the censures, and making lawes of the Church. Yea, a point more; which sheweth manifestly their growing out of kinde from Bishoply state to Princely: to wéete, that there is an ordinarie Prelate, called
the Vicar of Rome, to whom they haue commited the charge of al those thinges within the Romane diocese, that belong to any Bishop in his diocese, and so to them in theirs, as Bishops of Rome properly. In fine, if any branch of the particular pointes, wherewith I haue charged them, be not so plaine and ful in Sansouinus, or Onuphrius: I shall declare it farther, and proue it, if you will, by the records, and testimonies of your owne
Popes. Whereupon I am content to make euen your selfe iudge, M.
*
Vicario di Roma.
tMatthew Paris, and Thomas Walsingham, in the English story: Guicciardin, in the Italian: Aemylius, in the French: Krantzius, in the Saxon: Theodoric Niem, of the Popes: and so forth others, of other states & countries.Matthew Pa•is, and Thomas Walsingam, in the English storie: Guicciardin, in the Italian: Aemylius, in the French: Krantzius, in the Saxon: Theodorike Niem, of the Popes: and so forth others, of other states & countries.
uFranciscus Picus Mirand. in orat. ad Lateran. Concil. de moribus reformandis. Polyd. Virgil. de inuentoribu• rerum. Magist. ceremon. sanct. eccles. Rom. Taxae Romanae Paenitentiariae.
xCanonist. comment. & Gloss. in Jus Canonicum. Duaren. de sacris ecclesiae minist. ac benef. Petr. Rebuff▪ Praxis beneficiaria.Canonist. comment. & Gloss. in Ius Canonicum. Duaren. de sacris ecclesiae minist. ac benef. Petr. Rebuff▪ Praxis beneficiaria.
yDurand. de modo celebrand. concil. gener. Petr. de Aliac. Card. de reformat. eccles. Hieron. Pauli Barchinon. Practica cancel a••e Apost. Fran. Victoria •elect. 2. & 4. Concilium delectorum Cardinalium.Durand. de modo celebrand. concil. gener. Petr. de Aliac. Card. de reformat. eccles. Hieron. Pauli Barchinon. Practica cancell a••e Apost. Fran. Victoria •elect. 2. & 4. Concilium delectorum Cardinalium.
zPope Gregory the much, Boniface the eighth, Clemens the fifth, and the rest who were authors of the Decretals, Clementines, and Extravagants. Pope Pius the second, in Epist. praesertim de moribus German. Pope Leo the tenth▪ in Concil. Lateran Session. 9.10. & 11. Pope Paul ye third, in Reg. Cancellar. Apost. Pope Julius the third, in perpet. constitut. de quingentis ducatis Cardinalium. Pope Pius the fifth and Gregory the thirteenth in Ecloge Bullar. & Motu proprior.Pope Gregorie the much, Boniface the eighth, Clemens the fifth, and the rest who were autours of the Decretals, Clementines, and Extrauagants. Pope Pius the second, in Epist. praesertim de moribus German. Pope Leo the tenth▪ in Concil. Lateran Session. 9.10. & 11. Pope Paul ye third, in Reg. Cancellar. Apost. Pope Iulius the third, in perpet. constitut. de quingentis ducatis Cardinalium. Pope Pius the fifth and Gregorie the thirteenth in Ecloge Bullar. & Motu proprior.
ordeined collectors to seaze vpon these taxes and tributes throughout al prouinces, with horrible abusing of suspensions, interditements, and excommunications, if any man refused to pay them; & vsed such marchandize with
