A10345:2312
The sum of the conference between John Rainoldes and John Hart touching the head…The summe of the conference betwene Iohn Rainoldes and Iohn Hart touching the head…
The sum of the conference between John Rainoldes and John Hart touching the head and the faith of the Church. Wherein by the way are handled sundry points, of the sufficiency and right expounding of the Scriptures, the ministry of the Church, the function of priesthood, the sacrifice of the mass, with other controversies of religion: but chiefly and purposely the point of Church-government ... Penned by John Rainoldes, according to the notes set down in writing by them both: perused by John Hart, and (after things supplied, & altered, as he thought good) allowed for the faithful report of that which past in conference between them. Whereunto is annexed a treatise entitled, Six conclusions touching the Holy Scripture and the Church, written by John Rainoldes. With a defence of such things as Thomas Stapleton and Gregory Martin have carped at therein.The summe of the conference betwene Iohn Rainoldes and Iohn Hart touching the head and the faith of the Church. Wherein by the way are handled sundrie points, of the sufficiencie and right expounding of the Scriptures, the ministerie of the Church, the function of priesthood, the sacrifice of the masse, with other controuerises of religion: but chiefly and purposely the point of Church-gouernment ... Penned by Iohn Rainoldes, according to the notes set downe in writing by them both: perused by Iohn Hart, and (after things supplied, & altered, as he thought good) allowed for the faithfull report of that which past in conference betwene them. Whereunto is annexed a treatise intitled, Six conclusions touching the Holie Scripture and the Church, writen by Iohn Rainoldes. With a defence of such thinges as Thomas Stapleton and Gregorie Martin haue carped at therein.
Londini: printed by John Wolfe, 1584Londini: printed by Iohn Wolfe, 1584
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
And to this argument (saith he) I answer briefly, that no words of the Church are the words of error, that is, that no erroneous thing is ever taught, defined, or approved, by the Church in her Bishops & Pastors teaching uniformly; in the decrees of Councils, chiefly of general Councils; in that which the Fathers teach with one consent; in her head, the Pope, defining, & delivering any thing publicly; & finally in the rule of faith which all the Church holdeth: though severally some Bishops may privately err in teaching; and one or moe Fathers may write some untrue thing, or be in some error; and somewhat even in Councils, without the decree it self, may be said or reasoned inconveniently; and (to conclude) the Pope may be overseen privately in somewhat. But this must be certes imputed to the frailty of men, not to the Church ⟨image 381⟩her self. Which speech of D. Stapletons if it be an answer unto my argument: then can I tell him a very brief way to answer my Conclusions all with one word. How? By granting them all to be true. For though it were so, that nether Bishops teaching uniformly might err, nor Fathers consenting, nor Councils in decrees, nor the Pope in public and definitive sentence, which I both 1there, & selse where have showed to be otherwise, but if it were so: yet seeing that Bishops and Fathers, and Councils, and the Pope himself may err (as he confesseth) in this or that point, and this or that manner; he granteth that which I said, that some words of the Church are the words of error. But those words must certes (saith he) be imputed to the frailty of men, not to the Church her self. Now certes M Doctor is a merry man: who can shift an argument off with such a jest. As though the Church her self consisted not of men: and therefore must needs offend so through frailty, the men offending so. The fourth and last point wherewith the findeth fault, is, that amongst 4the reasons why the Church of Rome is no sound member of the Catholic Church, I bring this, that, touching expounding of the Scripture, she condemneth all senses and meanings thereof, which are against the sense that her self holdeth, or against the Fathers consenting all in one.