An answer to a challenge madeAn ansvver to a challenge made
An answer to a challenge made by a Jesuit in Ireland Wherein the judgement of antiquity in the points questioned is truly delivered, and the novelty of the now romish doctrine plainly discovered. By James Usher Bishop of Meath.An ansvver to a challenge made by a Iesuite in Ireland Wherein the iudgement of antiquity in the points questioned is truely delivered, and the noveltie of the now romish doctrine plainly discovered. By Iames Vssher Bishop of Meath.
James Ussher 1581–1656Dublin: printed by the Society of Stationers and Eliot's Court Press, 1624Dublin: printed by the Societie of Stationers and Eliot's Court Press, 1624
[24], 527, [9] p. · 153k words · STC 24542 · ESTC S118933
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
These things do I here repeat, not with any intention to disgrace antiquity (whereof I profess my self to be as great an admirer as any) but to discover the first grounds from whence that Invocation of Saints did proceed, whereby the honour of God and Christs office of mediation was afterwards so much obscured. That saying of S. Augustin is very memorable, and ⟨p. 399⟩worthy to be pondered. bWhom should I find, that might reconcile me unto thee? Should I have gone unto the Angels? With what prayer? with what sacraments? Many endeavouring to return unto thee, and not being able to do it by themselves, as I hear, have tried these things; and have fallen into the desire of curious visions, and were accounted worthy of illusions. Whether they that had recourse unto the mediation of Martyrs, in such sort as these had unto the mediation of Angels, deserved to be punished with the like delusions; I leave to the judgement of others: the thing which I observed was this; that such dreams and visions as these, joined with the miraculous cures that were wrought at the monuments of the Martyrs, bred first an opinion in mens minds of the Martyrs ability to help them; and so afterward led them to the recommending of themselves unto their prayers and protection. where at first they expected only by their intercession to obtain temporal blessings (such as those cures were that were wrought at their tombs, and other like external benefits) but proceeded afterward to crave their mediation for the procuring of the remission of their sins and the furthering of their everlasting salvation. cAs often, dear brethren, as we do celebrate the solemnities of the holy Martyrs; let us so expect by their intercession to obtain from the Lord TEMPORAL benefits, that by imitating the Martyrs themselves we may deserve to receive eternal: saith the author of the sermon of the Martyrs, which is found among the homilies of S. Augustin and Leo, and in the *Roman Breviary is appointed ⟨p. 400⟩to be read at the common festival days of many Martyrs. d
Be mindful of the Martyr (saith S. Basil in his Panegyrical oration upon Mamas) as many of you as have enjoyed him by DREAMS; as many of you as coming to this place, have had him a helper to your praying; as many as to whom, being called by name, he showed himself present by his works; as many travellers as he hath brought back again;
These things doe I here repeat, not with any intention to disgrace antiquitie (whereof I professe my selfe to be as great an admirer as any) but to discover the first grounds from whence that Invocation of Saints did proceed, whereby the honour of God and Christs office of mediation was afterwards so much obscured. That saying of S. Augustin is very memorable, and ⟨p. 399⟩worthy to be pondered. bWhom should I finde, that might reconcile me unto thee? Should I have gone unto the Angels? With what prayer? with what sacraments? Many endevouring to returne unto thee, and not being able to doe it by themselves, as I heare, have tryed these things; and have fallen into the desire of curious visions, and were accounted worthy of illusions. Whether they that had recourse unto the mediation of Martyrs, in such sort as these had unto the mediation of Angels, deserved to be punished with the like delusions; I leave to the judgement of others: the thing which I observed was this; that such dreames and visions as these, joined with the miraculous cures that were wrought at the monuments of the Martyrs, bredd first an opinion in mens mindes of the Martyrs abilitie to helpe them; and so afterward ledd them to the recommending of themselves unto their prayers and protection. where at first they expected onely by their intercession to obtaine temporall b•essings (such as those cures were that were wrought at their t•mbes, and other like externall benefites) but proceeded af•erward to crave their mediation for the procuring of the remission of their sinns and the furthering of their everlasting salvation. cAs often, dear brethren, as we do celebrate the solemnities of the holy Martyrs; let us so expect by their intercession to obtaine from the Lord TEMPORALL benefits, that by imitating the Martyrs themselves we may deserve to receive eternall: saith the author of the sermon of the Martyrs, which is found among the homilies of S. Augustin and Leo, and in the *Romane Breviary is appointed ⟨p. 400⟩to be read at the common festivall dayes of many Martyrs. dBe mindfull of the Martyr (saith S. Basil in his Panegyricall oration upon Mamas) as many of you as have en•oyed him by DREAMES; as many of you as comming to this place, have had him a helper to your praying; as many as to whom, being called by name, hee shewed himselfe present by his workes; as many travailers as he hath brought back againe;
bQuem invenirem, qui me reconciliaret tibi? An e•ndum mihi fuit ad Angelos? Quâ prece? quibus sacramentis? Multi conantes ad te redire, neque per seipsos valentes, sicut audio, tentave•unt haec; & incid••unt in deside•ium curiosaru• visionū, & digni habiti sunt illusionibus Augustin. Confes• lib. 10. cap. 42.Quem invenirem, qui me reconciliaret tibi? An e•ndum mihi fuit ad Angelos? Quâ prece? quibus sacramentis? Multi conantes ad te redire, neque per seipsos valentes, sicut audio, tentave•unt haec; & incid••unt in deside•ium curiosaru• visionū, & digni habiti sunt illusionibus Augustin. Confes• lib. 10. cap. 42.
cQuotiescumque, Fratres charissimi, sanctorum Martyrum solennia celebramus; ita ipsis intercedentibus expectemus á Domino consequi temporalia beneficia, ut ipsos Martyres imitando accipere mereamur aeterna. Serm. de Martyrib. ad calcem fe•monum Leonis 1 & tom. 1. Oper. Augustin. serm. 47. de Sanctis.
*Breviar. Roman. in Communi plurimorum Martyrum extra tempus Paschal, lect. 4.Breviar. Roman. in Communi plurimorum Martyrum extra tempus Paschale, lect. 4.
d[Greek or Hebrew]. Basil homil. 26 de S. Mamante.〈non-Latin alphabet〉. Basil homil. 26 de S. Mamante.
as many as he hath raised from sickness; as many as he hath restored their children unto being now dead; as many as have received by his means a longer term of life
as many as he hath raysed from sicknesse; as many as he hath restored their children unto being now dead; as many as have received by his meanes a longer terme of life
Here a man may easily discern the breedings of this disease, and as it were the grudgings of that ague that afterwards brake out into a pestilential fever. The Martyr is here vocatus only, not invocatus yet: not called upon by being prayed unto, but called to join with others in putting up the same petition unto his and their God. For as here in the Church militant we have our fellow-soldiers e[Greek or Hebrew] striving together with us, and f[Greek or Hebrew] helping together with their prayers to God for us; and yet because we pray one for another, we do not pray one to another: so the Fathers which taught that the Saints in the Church triumphant do pray for us, might with S. Basil acknowledge that they had the Martyrs [Greek or Hebrew] fellow-helpers to their prayer; and yet pray with them only, and not unto them. For howsoever this evil weed grew apace, (among the superstitious multitude especially) yet was it so cropped at first by the skilful husbandmen of the Church, that it got nothing near that height which under the Papacy we see it is now grown unto. Which that we may the better understand, and more distinctly apprehend, how ⟨p. 401⟩far the recommending of mens selves unto the prayers of the Saints, which began to be used in the latter end of the fourth age after Christ, came short of that Invocation of Saints, which is at this day practised in the Church of Rome: these special differences may be observed betwixt the one and the other. First in those elder times, he that prayed silently was thought to honour God in a singular manner; as one that gbrought faith with him, and confessed that God was the searcher of the heart and reins, and heard his prayer before it was poured out of his mouth: the understanding of the present secrets of the heart, by the general judgement of the Fathers, hbeing no more communicated by him unto the creatures, then the knowledge of things to come. for before the day wherein the secrets of the heart shall be manifested, ialmighty God alone doth behold the hidden things: saith S. Hierome, alleging for proof of this the text, Matth. 6.4. Thy Father that seeth in secret. Psalm. 7.9. God searcheth the hearts and reins. and 1. King. 8.39. Thou only knowest the hearts of all the children of men. But now in the Church of Rome mental prayers are pre•ented to the Saints, as well as vocal:
Here a man may easily discerne the breedings of this disease, and as it were the grudgings of that ague that afterwards brake out into a pestilentiall feaver. The Martyr is here vocatus onely, not invocatus yet: not called upon by being prayed unto, but called to joyne with others in putting up the same petition unto his and their God. For as here in the Church militant we have our fellow-souldiers e〈non-Latin alphabet〉 striving together with us, and f〈non-Latin alphabet〉 helping together with their prayers to God for us; and yet because we pray one for another, we doe not pray one to another: so the Fathers which taught that the Saints in the Church triumphant doe pray for us, might with S. Basil acknowledge that they had the Martyrs 〈non-Latin alphabet〉 fellow-helpers to their prayer; and yet pray with them onely, and not unto them. For howsoever this evill weed grew apace, (among the superstitious multitude especially) yet was it so cropt at first by the skilfull husbandmen of the Church, that it gott nothing neere that height which under the Papac• we see it is now growen unto. Which that we may the better understand, and more distinctly apprehend, how ⟨p. 401⟩farre the recommending of mens selves unto the prayers of the Saints, which began to be used in the latter end of the fourth age after Christ, came short of that Invocation of Saints, which is at this day practised in the Church of Rome: these speciall differences may be observed betwixt the one and the other. First in those elder times, he that prayed silently was thought to honour God in a singular maner; as one that gbrought faith with him, and confessed that God was the searcher of the heart and reynes, and heard his prayer before it was powred out of his mouth: the understanding of the present secrets of the heart, by the generall judgement of the Fathers, hbeing no more communicated by him unto the creatures, then the knowledge of things to come. for before the day wherin the secrets of the heart shall be manifested, i
gQui in silentio orat, sidem defert, & confitetur quòd Deu• scrutator cordis & renis sit, & orationem tuā antè ille audiat, quàm tuo ore fundatur. Ambros. de Sacrament. lib. 6. cap. 4.Qui in silentio orat, sidem defert, & confitetur quòd Deu• scrutator cordis & renis sit, & orationem tuā antè ille audiat, quàm tuo ore fundatur. Ambros. de Sacrament. lib. 6. cap. 4.
h[Greek or Hebrew]. Quaest. 99. ad Antioch. tom. 2. Oper Athanasij, pag. 303. edit. Graecolat.〈non-Latin alphabet〉. Quaest. 99. ad Antioch. tom. 2. Oper Athanasij, pag. 303. edit. Graecolat.
iEt priùs quidem solus omnipotens Deus cernit occulta, dicente sermone Evange•ico; Et pater qui videt in abscondito. Et in alio loco: Scrutans corda & renes Deus. Et in Regum volumine. Tu solus nosti corda cunctorum filiorū hominū. Hi•ronym. lib 5· in Ezech. ca. 16. Vid. eund. lib. 4. in Ezech. ca. 14. li. 4▪ in Jerem. cap. 20. & lib. 1. in Matth cap. 9 (suprá. pa. 112.) lo. Chrysost. in Matth homil. 29▪ edit Graec. vel 30. Latin. Gennadium de Ecclesiasticis dogmatib. cap. 81. Jo Cassian. Collat. 7. cap. 13. Sedulium in Rom. 2. Paeschasium de Spiritu Sancto, lib 2. cap. 1. & alios possim.Et priùs quidem solus omnipotens Deus cernit occulta, dicente sermone Euange•ico; Et pater qui videt in abscondito. Et in alio loco: Scrutans corda & renes Deus. Et in Regum volumine. Tu solus nosti corda cunctorum filiorū hominū. Hi•ronym. lib 5· in Ezech. ca. 16. Vid. eund. lib. 4. in Ezech. ca. 14. li. 4 in
Secondly, in the former times kit was a great question, whether at all, or how far, or after what manner the spirits ⟨p. 402⟩of the dead did know the things that concerned us here: and consequently, whether they pray for us only lin general, and for the particulars God answereth us according to our several necessities, where, when, and after what manner he pleaseth. Anselmus Laudunensis in his interlineal Gloss upon that text; Abraham is ignorant of us, and Israel knoweth us not: (Isaiah. 63.16) noteth, that mAugustine sayeth, that the dead, even the Saints do not know what the living do, no not their own sons. And indeed S. Augustine in his book of the Care for the dead, maketh this inference upon that place of Scripture. nIf such great Patriarchs as these were ignorant, what was done toward the people that descended from them, unto whom (believing God) the people it self was promised to come from their stock: how do the dead interpose themselves in knowing and furthering the things and acts of the living? a•d afterward draweth these conclusions from thence, which oHugo de Sancto Victore borrowing from him, hath inserted into his book De Spiritu & animâ, cap. 29. pThe spirits of the dead be there, where they do neither see nor hear the things that are done or fall out unto men in this life. qYet have they such a care of the living, although they know not at all what they do, as we have care of the dead, although ⟨p. 403⟩we know not what they do. rThe dead indeed do not know what is done here, while it is here in doing: but afterward they may hear it by such as die and go unto them from hence; yet not altogether, but as much as is permitted to the one to tell and is fit for the other to hear. They may know it also by the Angels which be here present with us, and carry our souls unto them. They may know also by the revelation of Gods spirit such of the things done here as is necessary for them to know. Hitherto Hugo out of S. Augustin: who is herein also followed by Gratian, in the second part of the Decrees, caus. 13. quaest. 2. cap. 29. where the Gloss layeth down his resolution thus. sGratian moveth a certain incident question; whether the dead know the things that are done in this world by the living? and he answereth, that they do not: and this he proveth by the authority of Isaiah. (uz. Isaiah. 63.16.)
Secondly, in the former times kit was a great question, whether at all, or how farre, or after what maner the spirits ⟨p. 402⟩of the dead did know the things that concerned us here: and consequently, whether they pray for us onely lin generall, and for the particulars God answereth us according to our severall necessities, where, when, and after what maner he pleaseth. Anselmus Laudunensis in his interlineall Glosse upon that text; Abraham is ignorant of us, and Israel knoweth us not: (Esai. 63.16) noteth, that mAugustine sayeth, that the dead, even the Saints doe not know what the living doe, no not their owne sonnes. And indeed S. Augustine in his booke of the Care for the dead, maketh this inference upon that place of Scripture. nIf such great Patriarches as these were ignorant, what was done toward the people that descended from them, unto whom (beleeving God) the people it selfe was promised to come from their stocke: how doe the dead interpose themselves in knowing and furthering the things and actes of the living? a•d af•erward draweth these conclusions from thence, which oHugo de Sancto Victore borrowing from him, hath inserted into his booke De Spiritu & animâ, cap. 29. pThe spirits of the dead be there, where they doe neyther see nor heare the things that are done or fall out unto men in this life. qYet have they such a care of the living, although they know not at all what they doe, as we have care of the dead, although ⟨p. 403⟩we know not what they doe. rThe dead indeed doe not know what is done here, while it is here in doing: but afterward they may heare it by such as die and goe unto them from hence; yet not altogether, but as much as is permitted to the one to tell and is fit for the other to heare. They may know it also by the Angels which be here present with us, and carry our soules unto them. They may know also by the revelation of Gods spirit such of the things done here as is necessary for them to know. Hitherto Hugo out of S. Augustin: who is herein also followed by Gratian, in the second part of the Decrees, caus. 13. quaest. 2. cap. 29. where the Glosse layeth downe his resolution thus.
kRespondeo magnā quidē esse quaestionē, nec in praesentia disserendam, quòd sit ope•is prolixioris; utrum, vel quatenus, vel quomodo ea quae circa nos aguntur noverint spiritus mortuorum. Augustin. in Psal. 108. •narrat. 1.Respondeo magnā quidē esse quaestionē, nec in praesentia disserendam, quòd sit ope•is prolixioris; utrum, vel quatenus, vel quomodo ea quae circa nos aguntur noverint spiritus mortuorum. Augustin. in Psal. 108. •narrat. 1.
lVid. eund. de Curâ pro mortuis, cap. 16 suprá citatum, initio pag. 392. Sanctos in genere sollicitos esse pro Ecclesiâ, & orare posse, atque etiam reipsâ orare; fatentur Philippus in Apologiâ Confessionis Augustanae, articulo de invocatione Sanctorum, Brentius in Confessione Wirtembergensi, capite de invocatione Sanctorum, Kemnitius in tertiâ part Examinis Concilij Tridentini: Calvinus quoque lib•o t•rtio Institut. cap. 20. sect. 21. & 24. non repugnat huic sententiae. Bellarmin. de Missa, lib 2. cap. 8.Vid. eund. de Curâ pro mortuis, cap. 16 suprá citatum, initio pag. 392. Sanctos in genere sollicitos esse pro Ecclesiâ, & orare posse, atque etiam reipsâ orare; fatentur Philippus in Apologiâ Confessionis Augustanae, articulo de invocatione Sanctorum, Brentius in Confessione Wirtembergensi, capite de invocatione Sanctorum, Kemnitius in tertiâ parte Examinis Concilij Tridētini: Calvinus quoque lib•o t•rtio Institut. cap. 20. sect. 21. & 24. non repugnat huic sententiae. Bellarmin. de Missa, lib 2. cap. 8.
mAugustinus dicit: Quia mortui nesciunt, etiā sancti, quid agant vivi, etiā eorū filij Gloss. inte•lineal in Isaiah 63.Augustinus dicit: Quia mortui nesciunt, etiā sancti, quid agant vivi, etiā eorū filij Gloss. inte•lineal in
The like question is moved by the Master of the Sentences; tWhether the Saints do hear the prayers of suppliants, and the desire of petitioners do come unto their notice? and this answer is returned thereunto: It is NOT INCREDIBLE, that the souls of the Saints, which in the secret of Gods presence are joyed with the illustration of the true light, do in the contemplation thereof understand the things that are done abroad, ⟨p. 404⟩as much as appertaineth either to them for joy, or to us for help. For as to the Angels, so to the Saints likewise which stand before God, our petitions are made known in the Word of God which they contemplate. Upon which place of the Master, Scotus disputing, groweth to this conclusion. uI say, that it is not necessary in respect of the beatitude, that one in bliss should see our prayers: neither regularly or universally in the Word, because it is not such a thing as is a necessary sequel of beatitude; nor yet that they be revealed, because that neither such a revelation doth necessarily follow upon beatitude. Notwithstanding (for a reason which we shall hear of afterward) he saith, it is PROBABLE, that God doth specially reveal unto him that is in bliss such of our prayers as are offered unto him, or unto God in his name. The same conclusion doth Gabriel Biel make in his lectures upon the Canon of the Mass. for having showed, first, that xthe Saints in heaven, by their natural knowledge, which is the knowledge of things in their proper kind, know no prayers of ours that are here upon earth, neither mental nor vocal, by reason of the immoderate distance that is betwixt us and them. secondly, that yit is no part of their essential beatitude, that they should see our prayers or our other actions in the Word; and thirdly, that zit is not altogether certain, whether it do appertain to their accidental beatitude, to see our prayers: he thus at length ⟨p. 405⟩concludeth. aIt is therefore said PROBABLY, that although it do not follow necessarily upon the Saints beatitude, that they should hear our prayers of congruity: yet that God doth reveal all things which are offered unto them by men; whether in magnifying and praising them, or in praying unto them and imploring their help. Cardinal Bellarmine supposeth, that bif the Saints should have need thus of a new revelation, the Church would not so boldly say unto all the Saints;
The like question is moved by the Master of the Sentences; tWhether the Saints doe heare the prayers of suppliants, and the desire of petitioners doe come unto their notice? and this answere is returned thereunto: It is NOT INCREDIBLE, that the soules of the Saints, which in the secret of Gods presence are joyed with the illustration of the true light, doe in the contemplation thereof understand the things that are done abroad, ⟨p. 404⟩as much as appertayneth eyther to them for joy, or to us for helpe. For as to the Angels, so to the Saints likewise which stand before God, our petitions are made knowne in the Word of God which they contemplate. Upon which place of the Master, Scotus disputing, groweth to this conclusion. uI say, that it is not necessary in respect of the beatitude, that one in blisse should see our prayers: neyther regularly or universally in the Word, because it is not such a thing as is a necessarie sequele of beatitude; nor yet that they be revealed, because that neyther such a revelation doth necessarily follow upon beatitude. Notwithstanding (for a reason which we shall heare of afterward) hee saith, it is PROBABLE, that God doth specially •eveale unto him that is in blisse such of our prayers as are offered unto him, or unto God in his name. The same conclusion doth Gabriel Biel make in his lectures upon the Canon of the Masse. for having shewed, first, that xthe Saints in heaven, by their naturall knowledge, which is the knowledge of things in their proper kinde, know no prayers of ours that are here upon earth, neyther mentall nor vocall, by reason of the immoderate distance that is betwixt us and them. secondly, that yit is no part of their essentiall beatitude, that they should see our prayers or our other actions in the Word; and thirdly, that zit is not altogether certayne, whether it doe appertaine to their accidentall beatitude, to see our prayers: he thus at length ⟨p. 405⟩concludeth. aIt is therefore sayd PROBABLY, that although it do not follow necessarily upon the Saints beatitude, that they should heare our prayers of congruitie: yet that God doth reveale all things which are offered unto them by men; whether in magnifying and praysing them, or in praying unto them and imploring their helpe. Cardinall Bellarmine supposeth, that
tSed fortè quaeris; Nunquid preces supplicantium Sancti audiunt, & vota postulantium in eorum notitiam perveniunt? Non est ineredibile, animas Sanctorum, quae in abscondito faciei Dei veri luminis illustration laetantur, in ipsius contemplatione ea quae foris aguntur intelligere, quantum vel illis ad gaudium, vel nobis ad auxiliū pertinet. Sicut enim Angelis, ita & Sanctis qui Deo assistunt, petitiones nostrae innotescunt in Verbo Dei quod contemplantur. Petr. Lombard. Sentent. lib. 4. distinct, 45.Sed fortè quaeris; Nunquid preces supplicantium Sancti audiunt, & vota postulantium in eorum notitiam perveniunt? Non est ineredibile, animas Sanctorum, quae in abscondito faciei Dei veri luminis illustratione laetantur, in ipsius contemplatione ea quae foris aguntur intelligere, quantum vel illis ad gaudium, vel nobis ad auxiliū pertinet. Sicut enim Angelis, ita & Sanctis qui Deo assistunt, petitiones nostrae innotescunt in Verbo Dei quod contemplantur. Petr. Lombard. Sentent. lib. 4. distinct, 45.
uDico, quòd non est necesse ex ratione beatitudinis, quòd beatus videat orationes nostras: neque regulariter sive universaliter in Verbo, quia non est aliquid quasi necessaria sequela beatudinis; neque quòd revelentur, quia neque talis revelatio nec•ssariò sequitur beatitudinem. etc. Tamē probabile est, quòd Deus beatis revelat de orationibus sibi, vel •eo in nomine ejus oblatis. Jo. Scotus, in 4. dist 45. quaest. 4.Dico, quòd non est necesse ex ratione beatitudinis, quòd beatus videat orationes nostras: neque regulariter sive universaliter in Verbo, quia non est aliquid quasi necessaria sequela beatudinis; neque quòd revelentur, quia neque talis revelatio nec•ssariò sequitur beatitudinem. etc. Tamē probabile est, quòd Deus beatis revelat de orationibus sibi, vel •eo in nomine ejus oblatis. Io. Scotus, in 4. dist 45. quaest. 4.
xDicendum, quòd Sancti in patriâ qui de facto in coelis sunt, naturali cognitione putà vespertinâ, quae est cognitio rerum in proprio genere, nullas orations nostrum in terrâ consistentium, neque mentales n•que vocales cognoscunt propter immoderatam distantiam inter nos & ipsos Gabr. Biel, in Canon Miss. sect 31.Dicendum, quòd Sancti in patriâ qui de facto in coelis sunt, naturali cognitione putà vespertinâ, quae est cognitio rerum in proprio genere, nullas orationes nostrum in terrâ consistentium, neque mentales nque vocales cognoscunt propter immoderatam distantiam inter nos & ipsos Gabr. Biel, in Canon Miss. ect 31.
Pray for us: but would sometimes entreat of God, that he would reveal our prayers unto them. Yet because cit seemeth unto him superfluous, to desire ordinarily of them that they should pray for us, which cannot ordinarily understand what we do in particular, but know only in general that we are exposed to many dangers: he resolveth, that dalthough there may be some doubt, in what manner the Saints may know things that be absent, and which are sometime delivered by the affection of the heart alone; yet it is certain that they do know them. And you must enote, saith another Jesuit, that this is to be held for a point of faith, that the Saints do know the prayers which we pour unto them. So that to make good the Popish manner of praying unto Saints, that which at the first was but probable and problematical, must now be held to be de fide, and an undoubted axiom of Divinity.
Pray for us: but would sometimes intreat of God, that he would reveale our prayers unto them. Yet because cit seemeth unto him superfluous, to desire ordinarily of them that they shoul• pray for us, which cannot ordinarily unde•stand what wee doe in particular, but know onely in generall that we are exposed to many dangers: he resolveth, that dalthough there may be some doubt, in what maner the Saints may know things that be absent, and which are somtime delivered by the affection of the heart alone; yet it is certain that they doe know them. And you must enote, saith another Iesuite, that this is to be held for a point of faith, that the Saints doe know the prayers which we poure unto them. So that to make good the Popish maner of praying unto Saints, that which at the first was but probab•e and problematicall, must now be held to be de fide, and an undoubted axiome of Divinitie.
cSuperfluum videtur ab eis (qui sunt in Purgatorio) ordinarié petere, ut pro nobis orent: quia non possunt ordinarié cognoscere quid agamus in particulari, sed solùm in genere sciunt nos in multis periculis versari Id de Purgator. lib. 2. cap. 15.
dEtsi dubitatio esse possit, quemadmodum cognoscant absentia, & quae solo cordis affectu interdum proferuntur; tamen certum est eos cognoscere Id de Eccles. triumph. lib. ca•. •0.
eNotandum est, quod est de fide, beatos cognoscere orationes quas ad eos fundimus. Peasant. in 1. part. Thom. quaest. 1•.Notandum est, quod est de fide, beatos cognoscere orationes quas ad eos fundimus. Pesa•t. in 1. part. Thom. quaest. 1•.
Thirdly, in the Popish Invocation, formal and absolute prayers are tendered to the Saints: but the compellations of them used at first, were commonly either ⟨p. 406⟩wishes only, or requests of the same nature with those which are in this kind usually made unto the living; where the requester is oftentimes superior to him whose prayers he desireth (which standeth not well with the condition of fPrayer properly so called) and they that are requested, be evermore accounted in the number of those that pray for us, but not of those that are prayed unto by us. Of this you may hear, if you please, what one of the more moderate Romanists writeth. gIf it were lawful for the Prophet to call to the Angels and the whole host of heaven, and to exhort them that they would praise God, which notwithstanding they do continually without any one admonishing them, whereby nothing else but a certain abundance of desire of the amplifying of Gods glory is declared: why may it not be lawful also, out of a certain abundance of godly desire to call upon those blessed spirits which by the society of the same body are conjoined with us; and to exhort them, that they should do that, which we believe they otherwise do of themselves? That to say; All ye Saints, pray unto God for me: should import as much, as if it were said; Would to God, that all the Saints did pray unto God for me! I wish earnestly, that all the Saints should pray to God for me! Thus writeth Cassander, in his notes upon the ancient Ecclesiastical Hymns, published by him in the year 1556. who being challenged for this by some others of that side, added this further to give them ⟨p. 407⟩better satisfaction. hWhen I did see that it was not necessary, that we should hold that the Saints do understand our prayers; I thought it was sufficient to put back the calumnies of some, if we should say that these interpellations might be expounded by way of wishing or desiring: which hath less absurdity in it, and is agreeable to the examples of the holy Scriptures. But if any man would have such compellations as these to be taken also for an intimation of the desire, and a direct speaking unto them; I do not gainsay it. Notwithstanding I would think that a tacit condition ought to be understood in such an intimation: such as Gregory Nazianzen doth express in the funeral oration of his sister Gorgonia, when he saith.
Thirdly, in the Popish Invocation, formall and absolute prayers are tendred to the Saints: but the compellations of them used at first, were commonly eyther ⟨p. 406⟩wishes onely, or requests of the same nature with those which are in this kinde usually made unto the living; where the requester is oftentimes superior to him whose prayers he desireth (which standeth not well with the condition of fPrayer properly so called) and they that are requested, be evermore accounted in the number of those that pray for us, but not of those that are prayed unto by us. Of this you may heare, if you please, what one of the more moderate Romanists writeth. gIf it were lawfull for the Prophet to call to the Angels and the whole hoaste of heaven, and to exhort them that they would prayse God, which notwithstanding they doe continually without any one admonishing them, whereby nothing else but a certaine abundance of desire of the amplifying of Gods glory is declared: why may it not be lawfull also, out of a certaine abundance of godly desire to call upon those blessed spirits which by the societie of the same body are conjoyned with us; and to exhort them, that they should doe that, which we beleeve they otherwife doe of themselves? That to say; All ye Saints, pray unto God for me: should import as much, as if it were said; Would to God, that all the Saints did pray unto God for me! I wish earnestly, that all the Saints should pray to God for me! Thus writeth Cassander, in his notes upon the ancient Ecclesiasticall Hymnes, published by him in the yeare 1556. who being challenged for this by some others of that side, added this further to give them ⟨p. 407⟩better satisfaction. hWhen I did see that it was not necessary, that we should hold that the Saints doe understand our prayers; I thought it was sufficient to put backe the calumnies of some, if we should say that these interpellations might be expounded by way of wishing or desiring: which hath lesse absurditie in it, and is agreeable to the examples of the holy Scriptures. But if any man would have such compellations as these to be taken also for an intimation of the desire, and a direct speaking unto them; I doe not gainesay it. Notwithstanding I would thinke that a tacite condition ought to be understood in such an intimation: such as Gregory Nazianzen doth expresse in the funerall oration of his sister Gorgonia, when he saith.
fEst enim oratio actus quidam rationis, quo unus alteri supplicat, inferior videlicèt superiori. Bella•min. de bonis operib. in particularly, lib. 1. cap. 7.Est enim oratio actus quidam rationis, quo unus alteri supplicat, inferior videlicèt superiori. Bella•min. de bonis operib. in particulari, lib. 1. cap. 7.
gSi Prophetae licuit appellare Angelos, & universum coelestem exercitum, eosque hortari ut Deū laudent, quod tamen nullo etiam monente assidué faciunt; quo sané nihil aliud quàm abundantia quaedam studij divinae gloriae amplificandae declaratur: cur etiam non liceat beatos illos spiritus ejusdem corporis societate nobiscum conjunctos, ex quâdam pij desiderij redundantiâ compellare, atque exhortari, uti id faciant, quod eos ultro facere credimus? ut perinde valeat; Omnes Sancti orate Deum pro me: ac si dicatur. Utinam omnes Sancti Deum orent pro me quàm velim ut omnes Sancti Deum orent pro me Georg. Cassand. Schol. in Hymn. Ecclesiastic. Op•rum pag. 242.Si Prophetae licuit appellare Angelos, & universum coelestem exercitum, eosque hortari ut Deū laudent, quod tamen nullo etiam monente assidué faciunt; quo sané nihil aliud quàm abundantia quaedam studij divinae gloriae amplificandae declaratur: cur etiam non liceat beatos illos spiritus ejusdem corporis societate nobiscum conjunctos, ex quâdam pij desiderij redundantiâ compellare, atque exhortari, uti id faciant, quod eos ultro facere credimus? ut perinde valeat; Omnes Sancti orate Deum pro me: ac si dicatur. Vtinam omnes Sancti Deum orent pro me quàm velim ut omnes Sancti Deum orent pro me Georg. Cassand. Schol. in Hymn. Ecclesiastic. Op•rum pag. 242.
hCùm viderē non necessarium, ut statuamus Sanctos intelligere nostras preces; credebam ad calumnias nonnullorum repellendas satis esse si dicamus per modū desiderij eas inter pellationes explicari posse: quod minus habet absurditatis, & divinarum literarum exemplis congruit. Si quis autem hujusmodi compellationes pro intimatione quoque desiderij, & directâ (ut ita loquamur) alloquutione haberi velit; non repugno. Crediderim tamen hujusmodi intimationi tacitam conditionem subesse debere; qualem Gregorius Nazianzenus in oratione funebri sororis Gorgoniae exprimit, cùm ait. Proinde si nostri sermones vel parumper tibi curae sint, honorque talis sanctis á D•o debetur animabus, ut talia resciscant; suscipe & tu sermonem nostrum. Id. epist. 19. ad Jo. Molinaeum. pag. 1109.
If thou hast any care at all of our speeches, and holy souls receive this honour from God that they have notice of such things as these; do thou accept this Oration of ours.
If thou hast any care at all of our speeches, and holy soules receive this honour from God that they have notice of such things as these; doe thou accept this Oration of ours.
Yea in the very darkest times of the Papacy there wanted not some, who for certain reasons (recited by Guilielmus Altissi dorensis and Gabriel Biel) resolved that neither the Saints do pray for us, neither are we to pray unto them. iWith these and such like reasons, saith Biel, were the heretics deceived: and some Christians in our time are now deceived. kFor these and the like reasons, saith Altissiodorensis, MANY do say, that neither we pray unto the Saints, nor they pray for us, but improperly: in respect we pray unto God, that the ⟨p. 408⟩merits of the Saints may help us. according to that: Adjuvent nos eorum merita, &c. where if any poison do remain hidden under the name of merits, (of which we are to consider in his proper place:) the Breviary of the Praemonstratersian Order ministereth unto us this antidote against it.
lAdjuvent nos eorum merita,
Quos propria impediunt scelera?
Excuset eorum intercessio,
Quos propria accusat actio?
At tu qui eis tribuisti
Coelestis palmam triumphi,
Nobis veniam non deneges peccati.
Can their merits help us, whom their own sins hinder? Can their intercession excuse us, whose own action doth accuse themselves? But thou, who hast bestowed upon them the palm of the heavenly triumph, deny not unto us the pardon of our sin. And this many serve to make a.
Yea in the very darkest times of the Papacie there wanted not some, who for certaine reasons (recited by Guilielmus Altissi dorensis and Gabriel Biel) resolved that neyther the Saints doe pray for us, neyther are we to pray unto them. iWith these and such like reasons, saith Biel, were the heretickes deceaved: and some Christians in our time are now deceaved. kFor these and the like reasons, saith Altissiodorensis, MANY doe say, that neyther we pray unto the Saints, nor they pray for us, but improperly: in respect we pray unto God, that the ⟨p. 408⟩merits of the Saints may helpe us. according to that: Adjuvent nos eorum merita, &c. where if any poyson doe remayne hidden under the name of merits, (of which we are to consider in his proper place:) the Breviarie of the Praemonstratersian Order ministreth unto us this antidote against it.
lAdjuvent nos eorum merita,
Quos propria impediunt scelera?
Excuset eorum intercessio,
Quos propria accusat actio?
At tu qui eis tribuisti
Coelestis palmam triumphi,
Nobis veniam non deneges peccati.
Can their merits helpe us, whom their owne sinnes hinder? Can their intercession excuse us, whose owne action doth accuse themselves? But thou, who hast bestowed upon them the palme of the heavenly triumph, deny not unto us the pardon of our sinne. And this many serve to make a.
iHis & similibus rationibus decepti sunt dicti hae•etici. Decipiuntur & nunc nonnulli nostro tempore Christiani. Gabr. Biel, in Canon. Miss. lect. 30.His & similibus rationibus decepti sunt dicti hae•etici. Decipiuntur & nunc nonnulli nostro tēpore Christiani. Gabr. Biel, in Canon. Miss. lect. 30.
kPropter istas rationes & consimiles dicunt multi, quòd nec nos oramus Sanctos, nec ipsi orant pro nobis, nisi improprié: ideò sc. quia oramus Deum ut Sanctorum merita nos juvent unde: Adjuvent nos eorum merita. etc. Guillerm. Altissiodor. in Sum. part. 4 lib. 3. tract. 7. cap. de Orat. quaest. 6.Propter istas rationes & consimiles dicunt multi, quòd nec nos oramus Sanctos, nec ipsi orant pro nobis, nisi improprié: ideò sc. quia oramus Deum ut Sanctorum merita nos juvēt unde: Adjuvent nos eorum merita. etc. Guillerm. Altissiodor. in Summ. part. 4 lib. 3. tract. 7. cap. de Orat. quaest. 6.
lBreviar Praemo. str•teus. in Ommum Sanctorum officio. Vid. Poëmata De corr•pto Ecclesiae statu, edit. Basil. an. 155• pag. 28.29. & Catalogue. test. veritat. edit. ibid. an. 1562. pag. 390.Breviar Praemo. str•teus. in Ommum Sanctorum officio. Vid. Poëmata De corr•pto Ecclesiae statu, edit. Basil. an. 155• pag. 28.29. & Catalog. test. veritat. edit. ibid. an. 1562. pag. 390.
Fourth difference betwixt the Popish prayers and the Interpellations used in the ancient time. for by the doctrine and practise of the Church of Rome, the Saints in heaven are not only made joint petitioners with us (as the Saints are upon earth) but also our Attorneys and Advocates: who carry the suit for us, not by the pleading of Christs merits alone, but by bringing in their own merits likewise; upon the consideration of the dignity or condignitie whereof it is believed, that God yieldeth to the motions they make unto him in our behalf. mWe pray unto the Saints (saith the Master of the Sentences) that they may intercede ⟨p. 409⟩for us, that is to say, that their merits may help us, and that they may will our good: for they willing it God doth will it, and so it will be effected. nWe ought to entreat the Apostles and all the Saints (saith Hugo Pratensis) in all our necessities: because they are our advocates, and the means betwixt us and God, by whom God hath ordained to bestow all things upon us. oBecause it is a thing fitting (saith Scotus) that he that is in bliss should be a coadjutor of God in procuring the salvation of the elect, according to such manner as this may agree unto him; and to this it is requisite, that our prayers which are offered unto him should specially be revealed unto him, because they lean specially upon the merits of him as of a mediator bringing us to the salvation which is sought for: therefore it is probable that God doth specially reveal unto him that is in bliss such of our prayers as are offered unto him, or unto God in his name. But this is an open derogation to the high prerogative of our Saviours meritorious Intercession, and a manifest encroachment upon the great office of Mediation, which the most religious and learned among those Fathers, who desired to be recommended unto the prayers of the Saints, were so careful to preserve entire unto him. pFor what is so proper to Christ, saith S. Ambrose, as to stand by God the Father for an advocate of the people? qHe is the Priest, saith S. Augustin, who being now entered within the veil, ALONE there of them that have been partakers of flesh, doth make intercession for us. In figure of which thing, in that first ⟨p. 410⟩people and in that first Temple the Priest only did enter into the Holy of holies, and all the people stood without. And therefore where S. John sayeth;
Fourth difference betwixt the Popish prayers and the Interpellations used in the ancient time. for by the doctrine and practise of the Church of Rome, the Saints in heaven are not only made joint petitioners with us (as the Saints are upon earth) but also our Atturneyes and Advocates: who carry the suit for us, not by the pleading of Christs merits alone, but by bringing in their owne merits likewise; upon the consideration of the dignitie or condignitie whereof it is beleeved, that God yeeldeth to the motions they make unto him in our behalfe. mWee pray unto the Saints (saith the Master of the Sentences) that they may intercede ⟨p. 409⟩for us, that is to say, that their merits may helpe us, and that they may will our good: for they willing it God doth will it, and so it will be effected. nWe ought to intreat the Apostles and all the Saints (saith Hugo Pratensis) in all our necessities: because they are our advocates, and the meanes betwixt us and God, by whom God hath ordayned to bestow all things upon us. oBecause it is a thing fitting (saith Scotus) that he that is in blisse should be a coadjutor of God in procuring the salvation of the elect, according to such maner as this may agree unto him; and to this it is requisite, that our prayers which are offered unto him should specially be revealed unto him, because they leane specially upon the merits of him as of a mediator bringing us to the salvation which is sought for: therefore it is probable that God doth specially reveale unto him that is in blisse such of our prayers as are offered unto him, or unto God in his name. But this is an open derogation to the high prerogative of our Saviours meritorious Intercession, and a manifest incroachment upon the great office of Mediation, which the most religious and learned among those Fathers, who desired to be recommended unto the prayers of the Saints, were so carefull to preserve entire unto him. pFor what is so proper to Christ, saith S. Ambrose, as to stand by God the Father for an advocate of the people? qHe is the Priest, saith S. Augustin, who being now entred within the vayle, ALONE there of them that have beene partakers of flesh, doth make intercession for us. In figure of which thing, in that first ⟨p. 410⟩
mOramus Sanctos, ut intercedant pro nobis, id est, ut merita eo•um nobis suffragentur, & ut ipsi velint bonum nostrum: quia eis volentibus Deus vult, & ita fiet. Petr. Lombard. Sentent. lib. 4. distinct. 45. & Jacobus de Vitriaco, in Litaniâ maiori.Oramus Sanctos, ut intercedant pro nobis, id est, ut merita eo•um nobis suffragentur, & ut ipsi velint bonum nostrum: quia eis volentibus Deus vult, & ita fiet. Petr. Lombard. Sentent. lib. 4. distinct. 45. & Iacobus de Vitriaco, in Litaniâ maiori.
nRogare debemus Apostolos & omnes Sanctos in omni necessitate nostrâ: quia ipsi sunt advocati nostri, & medij inter nos & Deum, per quos Deus ordinavit nobis omnia largiri. Hug. Prate•s. sermon. 35.
oQui congruum est beatum esse coadjutorem Dei in procurando salutem electi, eo modo quo hoc sibi potest cō petere; & ad iflud requiritur sibi revela•i orationes nostras specialiter, quae sibi offeruntur, quia illae specialiter innituntur meritis ejus tanquam mediatoris perducentis ad salutem, quae petitur: ideò probabile est, quòd Deus beatis revelat de orationibus sibi, vel Deo in nomine ejus oblatis. Jo. Scot. in 4. Sent. d•st. 45. quaest. 4.Qui congruum est beatum esse coadjutorem Dei in procurando salutem electi, eo modo quo hoc sibi potest cō petere; & ad iflud requiritur sibi revela•i orationes nostras specialiter, quae sibi offeruntur, quia illae specialiter innituntur meritis ejus tanquam mediatoris perducentis ad salutem, quae petitur: ideò probabile est, quòd Deus beatis revelat de orationibus sibi, vel Deo in nomine ejus oblatis. Io. Scot. in 4. Sent. d•st. 45. quaest. 4.
pQuid enim tam proprium Christi, quàm advocatum apud Deum patrem adstare populorum? Ambros. in Psalm. 39.
qIpse Sacerdos est, qui nunc ingressus in interiora veli, solus ibi ex his qui carnem gestaverunt interpellat pro nobis. In cujus rei figurâ in illo primo populo, & in illo primo templo unus sacerdos intiabat in sancta sanctorum, populus omnis foras stabat. August. in Psam. 64.
These things write I unto you, that ye sin not: and if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father Jesus Christ the righteous. (1. John. 2.1.) S. Augustin in his exposition upon that place maketh this observation thereupon: that S. John being so great a man as he was, rdid not say, YE have, nor Ye have ME, nor YE have Christ himself: but did both put in Christ, not himself; and also said, WE have, not YE have. because he had rather put himself in the number of sinners, that he might have Christ to be his advocate: than put himself for an advocate in steed of Christ, and be found among the proud that should be damned. and from thence draweth this conclusion against Parmenian the Donatist. sIf he had said thus; I have written this unto you, that you sin not, and if any man sin, you have me a mediator with the Father, I make intercession for your sins: (as Parmenian in one place doth make the Bishop a mediator betwixt the people and God:) what good and faithful Christian would endure him? who would look upon him as the Apostle of Christ, and not as Antichrist rather? The doctrine therefore and practise of the Church of Rome in this point, by this learned Fathers judgement, must needs be held to be ungodly and Antichristian.
These things write I unto you, that yee sinne not: and if any man sinne, vvee have an Advocate with the Father Iesus Christ the righteous. (1. Iohn. 2.1.) S. Augustin in his exposition upon that place maketh this observation thereupon: that S. Iohn being so great a man as he was, rdid not say, YEE have, nor Yee have MEE, nor YEE have Christ himselfe: but did both put in Christ, not himselfe; and also sayd, WEE have, not YEE have. because he had rather put himselfe in the number of sinners, that he might have Christ to be his advocate: than put himselfe for an advocate in steed of Christ, and be found among the proud that should be damned. and from thence draweth this conclusion against Parmenian the Donatist. sIf he had sayd thus; I have written this unto you, that you sinne not, and if any man sinne, you have me a mediator with the Father, I make intercession for your sinnes: (as Parmenian in one place doth make the Bishop a mediator betwixt the people and God:) what good and faithfull Christian would endure him? who would looke upon him as the Apostle of Christ, and not as Antichrist rather? The doctrine therefore and practise of the Church of Rome in this point, by this learned Fathers judgement, must needes be held to bee ungodly and Antichristian.
rNon dixit, habetis, nec me habetis dixit, nec ip•um Christū habetis, dixit: sed & Christum posuit, non se, & habemus dixit, non habetis. Maluit see ponere in numero peccatorum, ut haberet advocatum Christum: quàm ponere se pro Christo advocatum, & inveniri inter damnandos superbos. Augustin. tractat. 1. in 1. epist. Johan. cap. 2.Non dixit, habetis, nec me habetis dixit, nec ip•um Christū habetis, dixit: sed & Christum posuit, non se, & habemus dixit, non habetis. Maluit se ponere in numero peccatorum, ut haberet advocatum Christum: quàm ponere se pro Christo advocatum, & inveniri inter damnandos superbos. Augustin. tractat. 1. in 1. epist. Iohan. cap. 2.
sSi ita diceret; Hoc scripsi vobis ut non peccetis, & si quis peccaverit, mediatorē me habetis apud Patrem, ego exoro pro peccatis vestris: (sicut Parmenianus quodam loco mediatorem posuit Episcopum inter populum & Deum:) quis eum ferret bonorum atque fidelium Christianorum? Quis sicut Apostolum Christi, & non sicut Antichristum intueretur? Id. lib. 2. contr. epist. Parmenian. cap. 8.Si ita diceret; Hoc scripsi vobis ut non peccetis, & si quis peccaverit, mediatorē me habetis apud Patrem, ego exoro pro peccatis vestris: (sicut Parmenianus quodam loco mediatorem posuit Episcopum inter populum & Deum:) quis eum ferret bonorum atque fidelium Christianorum? Quis sicut Apostolum Christi, & non sicut Antichristum intueretur? Id. lib. 2. contr. epist. Parmenian. cap. 8.
Fifthly, the recommendation of mens selves unto the prayers of the Saints deceased, which was at first admitted in the ancient Church, did no way impeach ⟨p. 411⟩•he confidence and boldness which we have gotten in Christ, to make our immediate approach unto the throne of grace: which by the Invocation of Saints now taught in the Church of Rome, is very much impaired. For to induce men to the practise of this, the great Majesty of God and the severity of his Justice is propounded unto poor sinners on the one hand, and the consideration of their own baseness and unworthiness on the other. whereupon it is inferred, that aswell for the manifesting of their reverence to Gods Majesty, as the testifying of their submissness and Humility, they should seek to God by the mediation of his Saints; like as men do seek to the King by the mediation of his servants. which motives can have no more force to encourage men to the Invocation of Saints, then they have to discourage them from the immediate Invocation of God and his Christ. So among the causes alleged by Alexander of Hales, why we ought to pray unto the Saints: one is, tin respect of our want in contemplating; that we who are not able to behold the highest light in it self, may contemplate it in his Saints. another, in respect of our want in loving: because we miserable men (miserable men indeed that do so) or some of us at least are more affected sometimes unto some Saint, than unto our Lord himself: and therefore God having compassion on our misery, is pleased that we should pray unto his Saints. and a third, uin respect of the reverence of God: that a sinner who hath offended God, because he dareth not to come unto him in his own person, may have recourse unto the ⟨p. 412⟩Saints, by imploring their patronage. The like we read in Gabriel Biel, handling the same argument. xThis is a singular consolation (saith he) to sinners, who have oftentimes more mind to the interpellation of the Saints then of the Judge: whose defect of holiness also other mens goodness is able to supply. and it maketh yfor the reverence of God: that a sinner who hath offended God, as it were not daring for the dross of his sin to appear in his proper person, before the most high and dreadful majesty. should have recourse unto the Saints who are most pure and grateful to God:
Fiftly, the recommendation of mens selves unto the prayers of the Saints deceased, which was at first admitted in the ancient Church, did no way impeach ⟨p. 411⟩•he confidence and boldnesse which we have gotten in Christ, to make our immediate approach unto the throne of grace: which by the Invocation of Saints now taught in the Church of Rome, is very much impayred. For to induce men to the practise of this, the great Majestie of God and the severity of his Iustice is propounded unto poore sinners on the one hand, and the consideration of their owne basenesse and unworthinesse on the other. whereupon it is inferred, that aswell for the manifesting of their reverence to Gods Majestie, as the testifying of their submissenesse and Humilitie, they should seeke to God by the mediation of his Saints; like as men doe seeke to the King by the mediation of his servants. which motives can have no more force to encourage men to the Invocation of Saints, then they have to discourage them from the immediate Invocation of God and his Christ. So among the causes alledged by Alexander of Hales, why we ought to pray unto the Saints: one is, tin respect of our want in contemplating; that we who are not able to behold the highest light in it selfe, may contemplate it in his Saints. another, in respect of our want in loving: because we miserable men (miserable men indeed that doe so) or some of us at least are more affected sometimes unto some Saint, than unto our Lord himselfe: and therefore God having compassion on our misery, is pleased that we should pray unto his Saints. and a third, uin respect of the reverence of God: that a sinner who hath offended God, because he dareth not to come unto him in his owne person, may have recourse unto the ⟨p. 412⟩Saints, by imploring their patronage. The like we read in Gabriel Biel, handling the same argument. xThis is a singular consolation (saith he) to sinners, who have oftentimes more minde to the interpellation of the Saints then of the Iudge: whose defect of holinesse also other mens goodnesse is able to supply. and it maketh yfor the reverence of God: that a sinner who hath offended God, as it were not daring for the drosse of his sinne to appeare in his proper person, before the most high and dreadfull majesty. should have recourse unto the Saints who are most pure and gratefull to God:
tUlteriùs propter nostram inopiam in contemplando: ut qui non possumus summā lucem in se aspicere, eam in suis Sanctis contemplemur. Tertió, propter inopiam in amando: quia nos miserabiles homines, vel plerique nostrûm magis afficimur circa Sanctum aliquem aliquando, quàm etiā circa Dominū; & ideò Dominus eompastus nostrae miseriae, vult quòd oremus Sanctos suos. Alexand. de Hales, Summ. part. 4. quaest. 26. memb. 3. artic. 5.Vlteriùs propter nostram inopiam in contemplādo: ut qui non possumus summā lucem in se aspicere, eam in suis Sanctis contemplemur. Tertió, propter inopiam in amando: quia nos miserabiles homines, vel plerique nostrûm magis afficimur circa Sanctum aliquem aliquando, quàm etiā circa Dominū; & ideò Dominus eompastus nostrae miseriae, vult quòd oremus Sanctos suos. Alexand. de Hales, Summ. part. 4. quaest. 26. memb. 3. artic. 5.
uPropter Dei reverentiam: ut peccator, qui Deum offendit, quia non audet in propriâ personâ adire, recurrat ad Sanctos, eorum patrocinia implorando. Id. ibid.
xPeccatoribus singularis est consolatio, qui ad Sanctorum interpellationem quandoque magis animantur quàm Judicis: quorum etiam sanctitatis defectum supplere potest probitas aliena. Gabr. Biel in Can•n. M•ss lect. 30.Peccatoribus singularis est consolatio, qui ad Sanctorum interpellationem quandoque magis animantur quàm Iudicis: quorum etiam sanctitatis defectum supplere potest probitas aliena. Gabr. Biel in Can•n. M•ss lect. 30.
yPropter Dei reverentiam: ut sc. peccator qui Deum offendit, quasi non audens in personâ propriâ, propter peccati scoriā, coram majestate altissimâ pariter & tremendâ apparere, recurreret ad Sanctos purissimos & Deo gratos; qui peccatoris pr•ces altissimo praesen•••ent, easqu suis adjunctis meritis & precibus magis redderent ex•udib les, placidas. atque gratas. Ibid. lect. 31.Propter Dei reverentiam: ut sc. peccator qui Deum offendit, quasi non audens in personâ propriâ, propter peccati scoriā, coram majestate altissimâ pariter & tremendâ apparere, recurreret ad Sanctos purissimos & Deo gratos; qui peccatoris pr•ces altissimo praesenent, easqu suis adjunctis meritis & precibus magis redderent exudib les, placidas. atque gratas. Ibid. lect. 31.
who may present the sinners prayers unto the most High, and by adjoining their merits and prayers thereunto, might make the same more fit for audience, more pleasing and more grateful. Therefore Salmeron the Jesuit sticketh not to deliver his opinion plainly; that the praying unto God by the Saints seemeth to be better then the praying unto him immediately, as for other reasons, zso because the Church, which hath the Spirit of Christ, (though S. Augustin surely would have judged such a Church to be led by the spirit of Antichrist rather then of Christ) most frequently hath recourse unto God by the Saints, but cometh more rarely unto God by it self: and also, because the praying of God by the invocations of Saints doth argue greater humility; as may be seen in the Centurion, Luc. 7.6, 7. whereunto he applieth also the saying of David, aHe hath had respect to the prayer of the humble, and did not despise their prayers. and of Judith: bThe prayer of the humble and meek hath alway pleased thee.
who may present the sinners prayers unto the most High, and by adjoyning their merits and prayers thereunto, might make the same more fit for audience, more pleasing and more gratefull. Therefore Salmeron the Iesuite sticketh not to deliver his opinion plainely; that the praying unto God by the Saints seemeth to be better then the praying unto him immediately, as for other reasons, zso because the Church, which hath the Spirit of Christ, (though S. Augustin surely would have judged such a Church to be led by the spirit of Antichrist rather then of Christ) most frequently hath recourse unto God by the Saints, but commeth more rarely unto God by it selfe: and also, because the praying of God by the invocations of Saints doth argue greater humilitie; as may be seene in the Centurion, Luc. 7.6, 7. whereunto he applieth also the saying of David, aHe hath had respect to the prayer of the humble, and did not despise their prayers. and of Iudith: bThe prayer of the humble and meeke hath alway pleased thee.
zTertió, quia Ecclesia quae Christi Spiritum ha•er, f•equent•ssimé pe• Sanctos recurrit ad Deum, rariùs per se ad Deum accedit Quartò, precatio Dei per invocationem Sanctorum arguit majorem humilitatem; sicut videre est in Centurione. Alph. Salmer. in 1. Timoth. 2. d•spu•. 7. sect. ult.
Thus in the days of the Apostles themselves, under the pretence of cHumility some laboured to bring into the Church the worshipping of Angels: which carried with it da show of wisdom, (as S. Paul speaketh of it) and such a show as was not far unlike unto that wherewith our Romish Doctors do cozen simple people now a days. For ethis (saith Theodoret) did they counsel should be done, (namely, that men should pray unto Angels) pretending humility, and saying, that the God of all things was invisible, and inaccessible, and incomprehensible▪ and that it was fit we should procure G•ds favour by the means of Angels. whereas S Chrysostom treating of Christian humility •heweth that the faithful who are furnished with that grace do notwithstanding fascend beyond the highest tops of heaven, and passing by the Angels, present themselves before the Regal throne it self. yea gby earning thus to speak with God in prayer, he showeth that the man himself is made a kind of an Angel the soul is so set loos• from the bonds of the body; the reasoning is raised up so high; he is so translated into heaven, he doth so overlook these worldly things, he is so placed by the Regal throne it self: although he be a poor man, although a servant, although a simple man, although an unlearned Neither is it to be forgotten, that the heathen Idolaters also, to cover hthe shame of their neglecting of God, were wont to use this miserable excuse; that by these they might go to God, as by officers we go to the King: which is the very self same rag our Romanists have ⟨p. 414⟩borrowed from them to cover their superstition with, that the nakedness thereof might not appear. But S. Ambrose (or who ever else was author of those commentaries upon S. Pauls epistles that are found among his works) hath met well with them, and sufficiently discovered the vanity of these gross and carnal imaginations. iGo too, (saith he) is there any man so mad, or so unmindful of his salvation, as to give the Kings honour to an officer: whereas if any shall be found but to treat of such a matter, they are justly condemned as guilty of high treason? And yet these men think themselves not guilty, who give the honour of Gods name to a creature, and leaving the Lord adore their fellow servants; as though there were any thing more, that could be reserved to God.
Thus in the dayes of the Apostles themselves, under the pretence of cHumilitie some laboured to bring into the Church the worshipping of Angels: which carried with it da shew of wisedome, (as S. Paul speaketh of it) and such a shew as was not farre unlike unto that wherewith our Romish Doctors do cozen simple people now a dayes. For ethis (saith Theodoret) did they counsell should be done, (namely, that men should pray unto Angels) pretending humility, and saying, that the God of all things was invisible, and inaccessible, and incomprehensible▪ and that it was fit wee sho•ld procure G•ds favour by the meanes of Angels. whereas S Chrysostom treating of Christian hum•litie •heweth that the faithfull who are furnished with that grace do notwithstanding fascend beyond the highest toppes of heaven, and passing by the Angels, p•esent themselves before the Regall throne it selfe. yea gby earning thus to speake with God in prayer, he sheweth that the man himselfe is made a kinde of an Angel the soule is so set loos• from the bonds of the body; the reasoning is raysed up so high; he is so translated into heaven, he doth so overl•oke these worldly things, he is so placed by the Regall thr•ne it selfe: although he be a poore man, although a servant, although a simple man, although an unlearned Neither is it to be forgotten, that the heathen Idolaters also, to cover hthe shame of their neglecting of God, were wont to use this miserable excuse; that by these they might goe to God, as by officers we goe to the King: which is the very selfe same ragg our Romanists have ⟨p. 414⟩borrowed from them to cover their superstition with, that the nakednesse thereof might not appeare. But S. Ambrose (or who ever else was author of those commentaries upon S. Pauls epistles that are found among his workes) hath mett well with them, and sufficiently discovered the vanitie of these grosse and carnall imaginations.
f[Greek or Hebrew]. Chrysostom. in Matth. homil. 65 edit. Graec. 66 Latin.〈non-Latin alphabet〉. Ch•ysostom. in Matth. homil. 65 edit. Graec. 66 Latin.
g[Greek or Hebrew]. Id in Psalm •.〈non-Latin alphabet〉. Id in Psalm •.
hSolent tamen pudorem passi neglecti Dei, miserâ uti excusatione, dicentes per istos posse ire ad Deum, sicut per comites pervenitur ad Regem, Ambros. in Rom. cap. 1.
iAgè, nunquid tam demens est aliquis, aut salutis suae immemor, ut honorificentiam Regis vindicet comiti; cùm de hâc re si qui etiam tractare fuerint inventi, jure ut rei damnentur majestatis? Et isti se non putant reos, qui honorem nominis D•i deferunt creaturae, & relicto Domino conservos adorant; quasi sit aliquid plus quod servetur Deo. Nam & ideò ad Regem per tribunos aut comites itur, quia homo utique est Rex, & nescit quibus debeat Rempublicam credere. Ad Deum anté (quem utique nihil latet, omnium enim merita novit) promerendum suffragatore non opus est, sed mente devotâ. Ubieunque enim talis locutus fuerit ei, respondebit illi. Ibid.Agè, nunquid tam demens est aliquis, aut salutis suae immemor, ut honorificentiam Regis vindicet comiti; cùm de hâc re si qui etiam tractare fuerint inventi, jure ut rei damnentur majestatis? Et isti se non putant reos, qui honorem nominis Di deferunt creaturae, & relicto Domino conservos adorant; quasi sit aliquid plus quod servetur Deo. Nam & ideò ad Regem per tribunos aut comites itur, quia homo utique est Rex, & nescit quibus debeat Rēpublicam credere. Ad Deum anté (quem utique nihil latet, omnium enim merita novit) promerendum suffragatore non opus est, sed mente devotâ. Vbieunque enim talis locutus fuerit ei, respondebit illi. Ibid.
For therefore do men go to the King by Tribunes or officers, because the King is but a man, and knoweth not to whom he may commit the state of the commonwealth. But to procure the favour of God, from whom nothing is hid (for he knoweth the merits or works of all men) we need no spokes-man, but a devout mind. For wheresoever such a one shall speak unto him, he will answer him.
For therefore doe men goe to the King by Tribunes or officers, because the King is but a man, and knoweth not to whom he may commit the state of the commonwealth. But to procure the favour of God, from whom nothing is hid (for he knoweth the merits or workes of all men) we need no spokes-man, but a devoute minde. For wheresoever such a one shall speake unto him, he will answer him.
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almightie God alone doth behold the hidden things: saith S. Hierome, alledging for proofe of this the text,
. Thou onely knowest the hearts of all the children of men. But now in the Church of Rome mentall prayers are pre•ented to the Saints, as well as vocall:
Gratian moveth a certaine incident question; whether the dead know the things that are done in this world by the living? and he answereth, that they doe not: and this he proveth by the authority of Esai. (vz. Esai. 63.16.)
Esai 63
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nSi tanti Patriarchae quid erga populum ex his procreatū ageretur, ignoraverunt, quibus Deo credentibus populus ipse de illorū stirpe promissus est: quo modo mortui vivorum rebus atque actibus cognoscendis adjuvandisque miscentur? Augustin. de Curâ pro mo•tuis, cap. 13.Si tanti Patriarchae quid erga populum ex his procreatū ageretur, ignoraverunt, quibus Deo credentibus populus ipse de illorū stirpe promissus est: quo modo mortui vivorum rebus atque actibus cognoscendis adjuvandisque miscentur? Augustin. de Curâ pro mo•tuis, cap. 13.
oLib. de Spiritu & Animâ, tom. 3. operum August qui idē est cū libro 2. de Animâ, inter opera Hugonis Victorint.Lib. de Spiritu & Animâ, tom. 3. operum August qui idē est cū libro 2. de Animâ, inter opera Hugonis Victorint.
pIbi sunt spiritus defunctorum, ubi non vident quaecunque aguntur, aut eveniunt in istâ vitâ hominibus. •ugustin. de Curâ •ro mortuis, cap. 13.
qIta illi (Diviti) fuit cura de vivis, quanvis quid agerent, omnino nesciret: quemadmodum est nobis cura de mortuis, quanvis quid agant, omnino utique nesciamus. Ibid. cap. 14.
rProínde fatendum est, nescire quidem mortuos quid hîc agatur, sed dum hîc agitur; posteà veró audire ab eis, qui hinc ad eos moriendo p•rgunt. Non quidē omnia, sed quae sinuntur indicare, qui sinuntur etiam ista meminisse; & quae illos, quibus haec indicant, oportet audire. Possunt & ab Angelis, qui rebus quae aguntur hic praesto sunt, audire aliquid mortui, quod unumquenque illo•um audire debere judicat cui cuncta subjecta sunt. etc. Possunt etiam spiritus mortuorum aliqua quae hîc aguntur, quae necessarium est eos nosse, & quae necessarium non est eos non nosse, non solùm praeterita vel praesentia, verumetiam futura spiritu Dei revelante cognoscere. Ibid. cap. 15.Proínde fatendum est, nescire quidem mortuos quid hîc agatur, sed dum hîc agitur; posteà veró audire ab eis, qui hinc ad eos moriendo p•rgunt. Non quidē omnia, sed quae sinuntur indicare, qui sinuntur etiam ista meminisse; & quae illos, quibus haec indicant, oportet audire. Possunt & ab Angelis, qui rebus quae aguntur hic praesto sunt, audire aliquid mortui, quod unumquenque illo•um audire debere judicat cui cuncta subjecta sunt. etc. Possunt etiam spiritus mortuorum aliqua quae hîc aguntur, quae necessarium est eos nosse, & quae necessarium non est eos non nosse, non solùm praeterita vel praesentia, verumetiam futura spiritu Dei revelante cognoscere. Ibid. cap. 15.
sFacit Grat. quamdam incidentem quaestionem; utrùm defuncti sciunt quae in mundo geruntur á viris? & respondet, quòd non: & hoc probat auctoritate Isaiae. Gloss. in 13. q. 2. De mortuis.
if the Saints should have neede thus of a new revelation, the Church would not so boldly say unto all the Saints;
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yNon est de ratione beatitudinis essentialis; ut nostras orationes, aut alia facta nostra, matutinâ cognitione videant in verbo. Ibid.
zUtrùm autem videre nostias orationes pertineat ad eorum b•atitudinem accidentalem; non per omnia certum est. I•id.Vtrùm autem videre nostias orationes pertineat ad eorum b•atitudinem accidentalem; non per omnia certum est. I•id.
aUnde probabilities dicitur, quòd licèt non necessariò sequitur ad s•nctorum beatitudinem, ut orationes nostras audiant de co•gruo: tamē Deu• eis revelat omnia quae ipsis ab h•minib•s off•runtur, si•e ipsos magnificando & la•dando, sive eos orando & auxili• implorando Ibid.Vnde probabili•e• dicitur, quòd licèt non necessariò sequitur ad s•nctorum beatitudinem, ut orationes nostras audiāt de co•gruo: tamē Deu• eis revelat omnia quae ipsis ab h•minib•s off•runtur, si•e ipsos magnificando & la•dando, sive eos orando & auxili• implorando Ibid.
bS• indigerent Sancti novâ revelatione, Ecclesia non diceret ita audacter omnibus Sanctis; Orate •ro nobu: sed peteret aliquando á Deo, ut & rev•laret preces nostras. Bellarm. de Eccles. triumph. lib. 1. cap 20.
Cùm viderē non necessarium, ut statuamus Sanctos intelligere nostras preces; credebam ad calumnias nonnullorum repellendas satis esse si dicamus per modū desiderij eas inter pellationes explicari posse: quod minus habet absurditatis, & divinarum literarum exemplis congruit. Si quis autem hujusmodi compellationes pro intimatione quoque desiderij, & directâ (ut ita loquamur) alloquutione haberi velit; non repugno. Crediderim tamen hujusmodi intimationi tacitam conditionem subesse debere; qualem Gregorius Nazianzenus in oratione funebri sororis Gorgoniae exprimit, cùm ait. Proinde si nostri sermones vel parumper tibi curae sint, honorque talis sanctis á D•o debetur animabus, ut talia resciscant; suscipe & tu sermonem nostrum. Id. epist. 19. ad Io. Molinaeum. pag. 1109.
people and in that first Temple the Priest onely did enter into the Holy of holyes, and all the people stood without. And therefore where S. Iohn saieth;
Go too, (saith he) is there any man so mad, or so unmindfull of his salvation, as to give the Kings honour to an officer: whereas if any shall be found but to treat of such a matter, they are justly condemned as guiltie of high treason? And yet these men thinke themselves not guiltie, who give the honour of Gods name to a creature, and leaving the Lord adore their fellow servants; as though there were any thing more, that could be reserved to God.
