A reply to an answer made of M. Doctor Whitgifte Against the admonition to…A replye to an ansvvere made of M. Doctor VVhitgifte Against the admonition to…

And whereas M. Doctor citeth Ambrose / Calvin / and other godly writers / to prove that the minister is understanded by the word elder or presbyter, he keepeth his old wont / by bringing sticks into the wood / and proving always that which no man denieth: and yet with the minister of the word / he also understandeth the elder of the church which ruleth / and doth not labour in the word. But therein is not the matter / for I do grant that by presbyter, the minister of the word is understanded / & yet nothing proved of that which M. Doctor would so fain prove. It is no marvel although you take up the authors of the admonition for want of logic / for you utter great skill your self in writing / which keep no order / but confound your reader in that thing / which even the common logic of the country / which is reason / might have directed you in. For what a confusion of times is this / to begin with Cyprian / and then come to Jerome and Chrysostom / and after to the scripture / and back again to Ignatius / that was before Cyprian / which times are ill disposed of you / and that in a matter wherein it stood you upon to have observed the order of the times. But as for Ignatius place it is sufficiently answered before in that which was answered to Cyprian his place / for when he saith the bishop hath rule over all / he meaneth no more all in the province / then in all the world / but meaneth that flock & congregation / whereof he is bishop or minister. And when he calleth him prince of the priests / although the title be to excessive and big / condemned by Cyprian and the council of Carthage / yet he meaneth no more the prince of all in the diocese as we take it / or of the province / then he meaneth the Prince of all the priests in the world: but those fellow ministers and elders that had the rule and government of that particular church and congregation / whereof he was bishop / as the great churches have for the most part both elders which govern only / and ministers also to aid one an other / and the principality that he which they called the bishop had over the rest / hath been before at large declared.

And whereas M. Doctor citeth Ambrose / Caluin / and other godly wryters / to proue that the mynister is vnderstanded by the word elder or presbiter, he keepeth hys olde wont / by bringing stickes into the woode / and prouing alwayes that which no man denyeth: and yet with the mynister of the word / he also vnderstandeth the elder of the church which ruleth / and doth not labor in the word. But therein is not the matter / for I doe graunt that by presbiter, the mynister of the word is vnderstanded / & yet nothing proued of that which M. Doctor would so fayne proue. It is no maruell although you take vp the authors of the admonition for want of logicke / for you vtter great skill your selfe in wryting / which keepe no order / but confound your reader in that thing / which euen the common logicke of the countrey / which is reason / might haue directed you in. For what a confusion of times is thys / to begin with Cyprian / and then come to Ierome and Chrysostome / and after to the scripture / and backe agayne to Ignatius / that was before Cyprian / which times are ill disposed of you / and that in a matter wherein it stode you vpon to haue obserued the order of the tymes. But as for Ignatius place it is sufficiently answered before in that which was answered to Cyprian hys place / for when he sayth the byshop hath rule ouer all / he meaneth no more all in the prouince / then in all the worlde / but meaneth that flocke & congregation / whereof he is byshop or mynister. And when he calleth hym prince of the priestes / although the title be to excessiue and bigge / condemned by Cyprian and the councell of Carthage / yet he meaneth no more the prince of all in the diocese as we take it / or of the prouince / then he meaneth the Prince of all the priestes in the world: but those fellow mynisters and elders that had the rule and gouernment of that particulare church and congregation / whereof he was byshop / as the great churches haue for the most part both elders which gouerne only / and mynisters also to ayde one an other / and the principalitie that hee which they called the byshop had ouer the rest / hath bene before at large declared.