The second reply of Thomas CartwrightThe second replie of Thomas Cartwright

As the D. could frame no argument out of Cyprian's place / for the office off the archbishop / without begging: so he can not answer the reasons against the Archbishop out off Cyprian / without the same. For where I showed that the whole people mentioned of Cyprian / being not the people of a diocese / or Province / were notwithstanding those which Cyprian's bishops governed / and therefore that they were not over a diocese / or Province: he answereth that if I had read any stories, I might understand, that bishops were chosen only by the Citizens of that place, whereof they were called bishops, and by no other in their Province, or diocese. Which is a gross answer. For although the stories off later times (wherein it is not denied but thes offices were) make such mention: yet what is that to our cause? whose controversy is whether it were so in Cyprian's times / as in times that followed. If he can show any ecclesiastical story off like auncientie with Cyprian / that maketh mention off such election: then he saith somewhat: if he can not / he doth to much abuse the time / and the reader. And certainly if Cyprian said had no more / but the people choose them bishops: yet (without contrary proof) he ought by all reasonable understanding / be judged to speak off all that people / over which he had government. but when he addeth all the people, he leaveth no controversy. And in the same place he saith: for the due making ¹of Elections the next bishops of that Province where the place is void, must come unto the people over whom the bishop is set: and the bishop ought to be chosen in the presence ⟨p. DXXXV⟩off the people. Upon which words it may thus be further reasoned: that people in whose presence the Bishop was chosen / was that over which the bishop was set: but the bishop was chosen in the presence off the people off one congregation: therefore the people over which the Bishop was set / was the people off one congregation. The first proposition is manifest by Cyprian's words / (the people over whom the bishop was to be set, ought to be present for election off the bishop). The second is also clear: forsomuch as it could not be with any convenience / that all the people off a diocese / or Province / should meet always for the choosing of their bishop / especially in time of persecution.

As the D. coulde frame no argument oute of Cyprians place / for the office off tharchbishop / withowte begging: so he can not answer the reasons againste the Archbishop owte off Cyprian / withowt the same. For where I shewed that the whole people mentioned of Cyprian / being not the people of a diocese / or Prouince / were notwithstanding those which Cyprians bishops gouerned / ād therfore that they were not ouer a diocese / or Prouince: he answereth that if I hadred any stories, I might vnderstande, that bishops were chosen onely by the Cytisens of that place, wherof they were called bishops, and by no other in their Prouince, or diocese. Which is a grosse answer. For althowghe the stories off later times (wherin yt is not denied but thes offices were) make suche mentiō: yet what is that to our cawse? whose controuersie is whether yt were so in Cyprians times / as in times that folowed. If he can shewe any ecclesiasticall storie off like auncientie vvith Cyprian / that maketh mencion off suche election: then he saith somewhat: yf he can not / he doothe to much abuse the time / and the reader. And certenly if Cypriā said had no more / but the people chuse thē bishops: yet (withowte contrary proofe) he owght by all reasonable vnderstanding / be iudged to speake off all that people / ouer which he had gouernement. but when he addeth all the people, he leauethe no controuersie. And in the same place he saithe: for the due making