The second reply of Thomas CartwrightThe second replie of Thomas Cartwright

The D. detected / in that Justin's president was neither bishop ¹off diocese / nor Archbishop off Province / but of one congregation: for excuse saith / he brought the place to prove there might be superiority over the ministers. Where first his trim order, that all my logic, and Rhetoric is not able to move, is too pitiful. for how childish is it / after so long travail to prove a bishop over the ministers off a diocese / and the archbishop of a Province / in the end to endeavour to prove / that there may be superiority? as if any man would deny this that granted the other: and it is to set the foundation upon the lover. yet I would know off him what meaneth the word (this) whereby appeareth not only that he brought it to prove superiority: but the superiority either off a bishop over a whole diocese / or an Archbishop over a Province: considering that this is the superiority which he speak of before / and immediately after. Secondly where I both by the use of the scriptures / and ancient writers showed the word Brethren, not taken for the governors but the people: observe how vainly he answereth / that Justine meant the ministers, and deacons by brethren, because he calleth the people after by the name off people. As if the rest off the church were not called both in scripture / and other writers / by diverse names. Thirdly how if it be granted / that Justin's president had superiority over the minister: yet how fondly it is concluded / that it is lawful / because it was. Then how his weapons fetched from Master Beza / have always their edge toward him / and his cause. For he allegeth him to prove that Justin's president did govern the rest / and had the name off bishop: which in the same place flatly condemneth that policy / as is declared. Lastly / ²how by this answer / he maketh every pastor off a congregation to handle the government: which before he took from him / when he shutteth him up in the administration of the word / and sacraments only.

The D. detected / in that Iustins president was neither bishop ¹off diocese / nor Archbishop off Prouince / but of one congregation: for excuse saith / he browght the place to proue there might be superioritie ouer the ministers. Where first his trim order, that all my logicke, and Rhetoricke is not able to moue, is too pitifull. for how childishe is yt / after so long trauaile to proue a bishop ouer the ministers off a diocese / and tharchbishop of a Prouince / in the ende to endeuour to proue / that ther may be superioritie? as if any man would denie this that graunted the other: and yt is to set the fondacion vpon the louer. yet I would know off him what meanethe the word (this) wherby appeareth not onelie that he browght yt to proue superioritie: but the superioritie either off a bishop ouer a whole diocese / or an Archbishop ouer a Prouince: considering that this is the superiority which he speake of before / and im̄ediatelie after. Secondly where I bothe by the vse of the scriptures / and auncient writers shewed the word Brethren, not taken for the gouernours but the people: obserue how vainly he answerth / that Iustine meant the ministers, and deacons by brethren, because he calleth the people after by the name off people. As if the rest off the church were not called both in scripture / ād other writers / by diuerse names. Thirdly how if it be graunted / that Iustins presidēt had superioritie ouer the minister: yet how fondly yt is concluded / that yt is lawfull / because yt was. Then how his weapons fetched from Maister Beza / haue alwaies their edge towarde him / and his cause. For he alledgeth him to proue that Iustins president did gouerne the reste / and had the name off bishop: which in the same place flatly condemneth that pollicie / as is declared. Lastly /