The second reply of Thomas CartwrightThe second replie of Thomas Cartwright

Unto that wherein he was touched / for his unskilfulness in dividing / in that both matters off government / and matters of faith (which he divideth / and by dividing opposeth) meet so friendly together in the government of the Pope: he answereth not. And yet having nothing to answer / he findeth him self the talk / of a whole sheet of paper. For first off all / how ridiculous is it that he saith / he did not put a case but an example? Then / whether pertains it / that he setteth down / what the Papists say off the pope, what the pope doth himself? That also which he affirmeth in so good earnest / that no government ought to be received / directly against the word off God: that he repeateth / and repeateth again / his negative argument of the popes supremacy: are they not all stray speeches / frayed out of there wits / carrying not the weight of a feather / to the proof off any thing in controversy: having no knot / either with the cause / or one of them with another?

VNto that wherin he was towched / for his vnskilfulnes in diuiding / in that bothe matters off gouernement / and matters of faithe (which he deuideth / and by diuiding opposethe) meete so frendlie together in the gouernement of the Pope: he answerthe not. And yet hauing nothing to answer / he findeth him selfe the talke / of a whole sheete of paper. For first off all / how ridiculous ys it that he saithe / he did not put a case but an example? Then / whether perteines it / that he settethe doune / what the Papistes saye off the pope, what the pope doothe himselffe? That also whiche he affirmethe in so good earnest / that no gouernement owght to be receiued / direcly againste the worde off God: that he repeatethe / and repeateth againe / his negatiue argument of the popes supremacie: are they not all strey spreaches / fraied owt of ther wittes / carying not the weight of a fether / to the profe off any thinge in controuersie: hauing no knot / either with the cause / or one of them with another?

Likewise the distinctions off Ceremonies / and government / off substantial and accidental / of external and spiritual / are altogether unprofitable / brought to avoid his apparent ignorance in dividing. Likewise his dallying in his questions what government I mean (which is apparent in the discourse off all our books off both sides) also his groping at none days / by questions what it meant by matters necessary to salvation, which is expressed off me in the very next division / and again in the third chap. 2 division. Afterward / when he setteth him self to prove / that there is no one find off government certain and unvariable in the church: let it be observed / how loosely and childishly he doth it. For beside the first reason / which is a begging of that which is in question and the later reason / drawn of the authority of master Gwalier whereof he can have no advantage / unless (with master Gwalter) he will affirm that excommunication is not necessary / nor yet convenient under a Christian magistrate: all the rest of his authorities / drawn out of M. Calvin / the heluetian confession / Bullinger / are quite beside the cause. For they are to prove / that there may be a church without excommunication. As though the question were / what things the church (of those which be prescribed by the word off God) may want / and yet be the church of god: and not / what things it ought to have by the prescript of the word off God. Or as though the question were / how sick the church might be / and yet live: how maimed / and yet not slain: and not what are the means / which the lord hath appointed / for a whole and wholesome constitution off the body of the church. And if excommunication or the one form off government were not necessary for the church / because the church which wanteth them / may be the church: by the same reason a man may say / that the holy sacrament of the supper of the lord / is not necessary for the church: seeing that in that company / where the word of god is only preached and received / there is the church off god. And hereof also the practise is to be seen in some places / where the magistrate (according to the churches