The second reply of Thomas CartwrightThe second replie of Thomas Cartwright

Likewise the distinctions off Ceremonies / and government / off substantial and accidental / of external and spiritual / are altogether unprofitable / brought to avoid his apparent ignorance in dividing. Likewise his dallying in his questions what government I mean (which is apparent in the discourse off all our books off both sides) also his groping at none days / by questions what it meant by matters necessary to salvation, which is expressed off me in the very next division / and again in the third chap. 2 division. Afterward / when he setteth him self to prove / that there is no one find off government certain and unvariable in the church: let it be observed / how loosely and childishly he doth it. For beside the first reason / which is a begging of that which is in question and the later reason / drawn of the authority of master Gwalier whereof he can have no advantage / unless (with master Gwalter) he will affirm that excommunication is not necessary / nor yet convenient under a Christian magistrate: all the rest of his authorities / drawn out of M. Calvin / the heluetian confession / Bullinger / are quite beside the cause. For they are to prove / that there may be a church without excommunication. As though the question were / what things the church (of those which be prescribed by the word off God) may want / and yet be the church of god: and not / what things it ought to have by the prescript of the word off God. Or as though the question were / how sick the church might be / and yet live: how maimed / and yet not slain: and not what are the means / which the lord hath appointed / for a whole and wholesome constitution off the body of the church. And if excommunication or the one form off government were not necessary for the church / because the church which wanteth them / may be the church: by the same reason a man may say / that the holy sacrament of the supper of the lord / is not necessary for the church: seeing that in that company / where the word of god is only preached and received / there is the church off god. And hereof also the practise is to be seen in some places / where the magistrate (according to the churches ⟨p. LIII⟩/ the preaching off the word off god) for certain occasions / will not accord / the ministering off the supper. Last off all / M.

Likewise the distinctions off Ceremonies / and gouernement / off substantiall and accidentall / of externall and spirituall / are altogether vnprofitable / brought to auoide his apparant ignorance in diuiding. Likewise his dalying in his questions what gouernement I meane (which is apparant in the discours off all our bookes off boothe sydes) also his groping at none dayes / by questions what it mente by matters necessarie to saluation, which is expressed off me in the very nexte diusiō / and againe in the thirde chap. 2 diuision. Afterwarde / when he setteth him selffe to proue / that there is no one finde off gouernement certaine and vnuariable in the churche: let yt be obserued / how loosely ād childishelie he doothe yt. For beside the firste reason / which is a begging of that whiche is in questiō and the later reason / drawne of the authoritie of maister Gwalier wherof he can haue no aduantage / vnles (with master Gwalter) he will affirme that excommunication is not necessary / nor yet conuenient vnder a Christien magistrate: all the reste of his authorities / drawne owte of M. Caluine / the heluetian confession / Bullinger / are quite beside the cause. For they are to proue / that there may be a churche withowte excommunication. As thowghe the question were / what thinges the churche (of those whiche be prescribed by the worde off God) may wante / ād yet be the churche of god: and not / what thinges yt owght to haue by the prescripte of the worde off God. Or as thowghe the question were / how sicke the churche might be / and yet liue: how meimed / and yet not slaine: and not what are the meanes / which the lorde hathe appointed / for a whole and wholesome constitution off the bodie of the churche. And iff excommunication or the one forme off gouernement were not necessarie for the churche / because the churche which wanteth them / maie be the churche: by the same reason a man maie saye / that the holie sacrament of the supper of the lord / is not necessarie for the churche: seing that in that companie / where the worde of god is onelie preached and receiued / there is the churche off god. And hereof also the practise is to be sene in some places / where the magistrate (according to the churches