The second reply of Thomas CartwrightThe second replie of Thomas Cartwright

That he saith that the state off the church was in the Apostles time popular: by his own judgement (which giveth the name unto the form of government, of that part which most ruleth) is untrue. for the State off the best, did bear the greatest rule: considering that there were matters belonging unto the church done by the eldership / whereat the people were not / nor could not by any convenience be present / yet there was nothing in which the peoples Judgement was required / wherein the Eldership was not both present / and president. And this saying off the D. that the people in the Apostles times, had to do almost in every thing: is directly contrary to that he hath before discoursed. For to the Admo. and me opposing the places off the Acts / where ¹things were done ether by voice / or consent off the church: his answer hath been / that the church had nothing to do there / but only in the election off the Deacons / and that popularity he ²affirmeth to have been / not in respect that the church was under persecution / as here in this place: but for a special cause off contention / then in the church. Now I would gladly know of Master D. What are those places off scripture / whereby he will prove that the most things in government / were done by consent off the people: if those places we have alleged / do not prove it. That which you ad / off the convenience that nothing should be done in the church, without the consent, and knowledge of the magistrate: your addition taketh nothing from the consent of the church. ⟨p. CCL⟩For the magistrates consent / and the churches are not at war: but one may / hath / and doth stand well with the other. Because the recital of a 100. differences is unprofitable: I leave it in the readers judgement / how truly / and without brag, or figure I have spoken. But if for a 100. there were 1000. yet your cause should be never the better / onles you can show / that those differences pull with them / a necessity off change off the form off election: which you nether do / nor can.

That he saithe that the state off the churche was in the Apostles tyme popular: by his owne iudgement (which gyueth the name vnto the forme of gouernment, of that parte which moste rulethe) is vntrwe. for the State off the beste, did beare the greateste rule: considering that there were matters belonginge vnto the church doone by the eldershipp / wherat the people were not / nor coulde not by any conuenience be present / yet there was nothing in whiche the peoples Iudgement was required / wherin the Eldershipp was not bothe present / and president. And this saying off the D. that the people in the Apostels times, had to doo almoste in euery thinge: is directly contrarie to that he hath before discoursed. For to the Admo. and me opposing the places off the Actes / where