The second reply of Thomas CartwrightThe second replie of Thomas Cartwright

I know well you say this place is fitly alleged against the Pope, ¹and that in words you thrust him far away / whom in deed you cause to approach. But forasmuch as your words serving against the Pope / your reasons are for him: and that his person being changed / his cause is still defended: it behoved me to look / not so much at your defiance in words / as at that maintenance which the course off your disputation bringeth unto him. And let it be now considered / whether your tongue being with the Bishop / your hand be not with Harding. He to prove that the Pope may exercise both civill / and ecclesiastical jurisdiction / ²bringeth forth the example of Moses both priest, and Prince. The Bishop to confute that / allegeth this text off S. Matthew. which if it put not a difference between the office of a Prince / and off a minister (as you say it doth not): then hath the Bishop answered nothing. For the question is not there / whether the Pope may tyrannously / or ambitiously ether seek after / or exercise civil jurisdiction: but whether he may exercise any at all. Nether is the question / whether the Pope may exercise that authority as a thing belonging unto him self / or of the grant off Princes. For then his rule should be avouched good in some times / when the Emperors have willingly submitted them selves / with their sceptres unto the pleasure off Popes. As for his reigning in mens consciences, it pertaineth not to this place. So that if the D. answer be good: then this place which the Bishop allegeth / maketh nothing against the Popes civill sword / provided that he seek it not, and that he have it of the kings grant. Which how contrary it is to the Bishops meaning / may easily appear by that which followeth.

I know well yow say this place is fitly alledged against the Pope, ¹and that in wordes yow thrust him far away / whom in deed yow cawse to approch. But forasmuch as yowr wordes seruing against the Pope / yowr reasons are for him: and that his person being changed / his cawse is still defended: it behoued me to looke / not so much at yowr defiance in wordes / as at that maintenance which the course off yowr disputation bringeth vnto him. And let it be now considered / whether yowr toung being with the Bishop / yowr hand be not with Harding. He to proue that the Pope may exercise both ciuill / and ecclesiasticall iurisdiction /