An apologetical reply to a book called an answer to the unjust complaint of…An apologeticall reply to a booke called an ansvver to the unjust complaint of…

2. The translation word for word. We the underwritten Ministers of the Dutch Church in the city of Amsterdam, being specially and lovingly requested and ⟨p. 128⟩desired of the Reverend Mr. PAGET, a faithful Pastor i• the English Church of the same city, as also the the Reverend brethren the Elders and Deacons of the same English Church, that we would not refuse sincerely to declare & show our private judgment about the calling of the Reverend, most famous, & learned Mr. DAVENPORT, which seems to be desired of the whole Church aforesaid; and that in this particular case alone, concerning the Baptism of those infants, which are offered to be baptised in the English Church: having well understood and duly weighed the whole matter, on both sides, and having throughly examined it, according to the rule of Gods word, and the order received in the Reformed Churches of these Provinces, in which the aforesaid English Church doth profess it self a member, under the Classis of Amsterdam, we do sincerely, and in the presence of God, with good conscience answer, and declare, that we desire nothing more, then that the foresaid Mr. DAVENPORT, whose notable learning and singular piety is much approved and commended of all the English our brethren; whom also, in this regard, and for his other commendable gifts, we understand to be most dear unto Mr. PAGET, may be lawfully promoted unto the Ministry of the English Church aforesaid: we do also greatly approve of his good Zeal and care of having some precedent private examination of the parents, and sureties of these children in the Christian Religion; yet, touching the matter it self, we do so judge, that this aforesaid examination be ordained, so far as may stand with the edification of the English Church;

2. The translation word for word. We the underwritten Ministers of the Dutch Church in the citty of Amsterdam, being specially and lovingly requested and ⟨p. 128⟩desired of the Reverend Mr. PAGET, a faithfull Pastour i• the English Church of the same city, as also the the Reverend brethren the Elders and Deacons of the same English Church, that we would not refuse sincerely to declare & shew our private judgment about the calling of the Reverend, most famous, & learned Mr. DAVENPORT, which seemes to be desired of the whole Church aforesaid; and that in this particular case alone, concerning the Baptisme of those infants, which are offered to be baptised in the English Church: having well understood and duely weighed the whole matter, on both sides, and having throughly examined it, according to the rule of Gods word, and the order received in the Reformed Churches of these Provinces, in which the aforesaid English Church doth professe it selfe a member, under the Classis of Amsterdam, we doe sincerely, and in the presence of God, with good conscience answer, and declare, that we desire nothing more, then that the foresaid Mr. DAVENPORT, whose notable learning and singular piety is much approoved and commended of all the English our brethren; whom also, in this regard, and for his other commendable gifts, we understand to be most deare unto Mr. PAGET, may be lawfully promoted unto the Ministry of the English Church aforesaid: we doe also greatly approove of his good Zeale and care of having some precedent private examination of the parents, and sureties of these children in the Christian Religion; yet, touching the matter it selfe, we doe so judge, that this aforesaid examination be ordained, so farr as may stand with the edification of the English Church;

but if haply the parents or sureties shall refuse to come, and undergo this examination, or if, for the shortness of time, or, for other just causes, it can not be done, or, if those that do come, shall not seem, for that time, to satisfy the judgment of the Brethren, one or more that do examine them, that yet the infant, whose parents & sureties are manifest to be Christians, & which publicly before the Church do profess Christian Religion at the reading of the liturgy of the Sacrament of Baptism, shall not therefore be excluded or deprived thereof▪ but that such ignorant ⟨p. 129⟩parents & sureties be further instructed, after the infant be baptised, to wit, because the infants of Christians ought not to bear & suffer the punishment of the ignorance, or yet of such disobedience of their parents, or sureties. If yet any other case fall-out, whereby it may seem that the infant presented should not be baptised, that then the judgment of the whole English Presbytery, or also, if need be, and if conveniently it may be done, that the judgment of the Classis of Amsterdam be obtained and rested in. So was it done and transacted in the house of Mr. PAGET the 28. day of January 1634.

but if haply the parents or sureties shall refuse to come, and undergoe this examination, or if, for the shortnes of time, or, for other just causes, it can not be done, or, if those that doe come, shall not seeme, for that time, to satisfye the judgment of the Brethren, one or more that doe examine them, that yet the infant, whose parēts & sureties are manifest to be Christiās, & which publickly before the Church doe professe Christian Religion at the reading of the leiturgie of the Sacrament of Baptisme, shall not therefore be excluded or deprived thereof▪ but that such ignorant ⟨p. 129⟩parēts & sureties be further instructed, after the infāt be baptised, to wit, because the infāts of Christiās ought not to beare & suffer the punishmēt of the ignorance, or yet of such disobedience of their parēts, or sureties. If yet any other case fall-out, whereby it may seeme that the infant presented should not be baptised, that then the judgment of the whole English Presbytery, or also, if need be, and if conveniently it may be done, that the judgment of the Classis of Amsterdam be obtayned and rested in. So was it done and transacted in the house of Mr. PAGET the 28. day of Ianuary 1634.

Here it must be noted that the Answerer pretendeth to publish this writing. 1. So as it was done▪ and transacted in his house the 28. day of January 1634. 2. So as it was written down and read before him, when they enquired of him, whether he, for his part, did rest therein, and he signified his consent with them. These things being premised, J demand, by what pretence, will the Answerer defend or excuse this his translation. Let me, without offence, desire to know, why he hath translated quorum parents, susceptoresve constat esse Christianos, whose parents and sureties are manifest to be Christians? when, according to their writing, it should be translated whose parents or sureties are manifest to be Christians? Here is [or] a disjunctive particle changed into [and] a particle copulative, to the manifest alteration of the sense of their words. That this is not the error of the printer, but done purposely, by the author, appeareth from his constant private report, that I refused to baptise the children of such, whose parents were manifest Christians. To make this good, the Reader hath a false translation obtruded upon him. I demand therefore, if that disjunctive expression of the five Dutch Ministers in their writing [viz, parents, or sureties] were justifiable, why doth he alter it into a copulative expression. [viz parents, and sureties?] If it were not justifiable, why did he signify his consent with them, and that he, for his part, rested therein? 2. Why am J blamed, yea, rejected, for not resting in it? what will he, what can he say, in excuse thereof? That the Dutch preachers were willing afterwards, upon my showing my dislike, to change ⟨p. 130⟩[ve into que] or, into, and, and therefore he altered it. I answer 1. such a thing was in speech, but never done: for when we began to take pen and paper and to wright down agreements on both sides, after some little discourse, they altered their minds, saying that they had no commission to make any agreements, till they had acquainted the Classis therewith, which they would do. And after that time, they never spake more of altering any thing. So it stood, and standeth to this day unaltered. 2. Suppose it had been altered by them (as it was not) yet the Answerer will have no advantage thereby:

Here it must be noated that the Answerer pretendeth to publish this wrighting. 1. So as it was done▪ and transacted in his house the 28. day of Ianuary 1634. 2. So as it was written downe and read before him, when they enquired of him, whether he, for his part, did rest therein, and he signifyed his consent with them. These things being premised, J demand, by what pretence, will the Answerer defend or excuse this his translation. Let me, without offence, desire to know, why he hath translated quorum parentes, susceptoresve constat esse Christianos, whose parents and suretyes are manifest to be Christians? when, according to their wrighting, it should be translated whose parents or suretyes are manifest to be Christians? Here is [or] a disjunctive particle changed into [and] a particle copulative, to the manifest alteration of the sense of their words. That this is not the errour of the printer, but done purposely, by the authour, appeareth from his constant private report, that I refused to baptise the childrē of such, whose parents were manifest Christians. To make this good, the Reader hath a false translation obtruded upon him. I demand therefore, if that disjunctive expression of the five Duth Ministers in their wrighting [viz, parents, or suretyes] were justifyable, why doth he alter it into a copulative expression. [viz parents, and suretyes?] If it were not justifyable, why did he signify his consent with them, and that he, for his part, rested therein? 2. Why am J blamed, yea, rejected, for not resting in it? what will he, what can he say, in excuse thereof? That the Dutch preachers were willing afterwards, upon my shewing my dislike, to change

Fourthly, He blameth me for complaining that he dealt extremely with me, and rejected all my labour for a peaceable composing, prudent accommodating, and brotherly ending of matters between him and me privately, or by the counsel of the Elders of his own Church, nor would hearken to my advise without consent of the Classis. All these reports, he saith, are untruths. And this writing, he saith, witnesseth for him, &c. Three things I affirm in those writings, and they are all true.

Fourthly, He blameth me for complaining that he dealt extreamely with me, and rejected all my labour for a peaceable composing, prudent accommodating, and brotherly ending of matters betweene him and me privately, or by the counsail of the Elders of his owne Church, nor would hearken to my advise without consent of the Classis. All these reports, he sayth, are untruths. And this wrighting, he sayth, witnesseth for him, &c. Three things I affirme in those wrightings, and they are all true.

First, that he rejected my labour for accommodation. The truth of that appeareth in that himself said, in the beginning of this Section, that he offered, that if any other convenient way of accommodation could be found out, he would willingly hearken to it: Let it be noted that he saith, any other, and thereby plainly refused that which was propounded by me? else why is any other way sought.

First, that he rejected my labour for accommodation. The truth of that appeareth in that himselfe said, in the beginning of this Section, that he offered, that if any other convenient way of accommodation could be found out, he would willingly hearken to it: Let it be noated that he sayth, any other, and thereby plainly refused that which was propounded by me? else why is any other way saught.

Secondly, that he would not yield any brotherly moderation unto me, and refused all means of accommodation. The truth hereof appeareth in the means which he embraced, or, rather put those Ministers upon to propound to me (having prepossessed them with causeless jealousies) when it is required, that I should rest in a writing (which himself is loath to translate aright, that the Reader may know the whole truth) wherein I am advised to baptize all children, whose parents, or sureties are Christians, by which accommodation, I shall be brought to do the thing which ⟨p. 131⟩I judge unlawful. For, if a Christian surety may give right to an infant for baptism, whose parents are neither of them Christians, and such midwives, or nurses, or others as take no future care of the child may pass for sureties, and must be accounted manifest Christians, if they nod the head, or say yea, at the reading or pronouncing of the formalier by the minister, though no man knoweth what they are, nor themselves, it may be, understand a word that is said to them; who seeth not that the sacred ordinance of Baptism is hereby made common, and so to be promiscuously administered, according to this writing?

Secondly, that he would not yeeld any brotherly moderation unto me, and refused all meanes of accommodation. The truth hereof appeareth in the meanes which he embraced, or, rather put those Ministers upon to propound to me (having praepossessed them with causeles jealousyes) when it is required, that I should rest in a wrighting (which himselfe is loath to translate aright, that the Reader may know the wholl truth) wherein I am advised to •aptize all children, whose parents, or suretyes are Christians, by which accomodation, I shall be brought to doe the thing which ⟨p. 131⟩I judge unlawfull. For, if a Christian surety may give right to an infant for baptisme, whose parents are neither of them Christians, and such midwives, or nurses, or others as take no future care of the child may passe for suretyes, and must be accounted manifest Christians, if they nodd the head, or say yae, at the reading or pronouncing of the formalier by the minister, though no man knoweth what they are, nor themselves, it may be, understand a word that is sayd to them; who seeth not that the sacred ordinance of Baptisme is hereby made common, and so to be promiscuously administred, according to this wrighting?

Thirdly, that he would not hearken to my advice without consent of the Classis. 1. That this is true, he must confess, unless he will deny his own words: for himself said so to me, & he knoweth it, 2. The event showeth it. For though he would have me to rest in this writing (without consent of the Classis) yet he well knew this to be no way of accommodation, hut a mere snare to me.

Thirdly, that he would not hearken to my advice without consent of the Classis. 1. That this is true, he must confesse, unles he will deny his owne words: for himselfe sayd so to me, & he knoweth it, 2. The event sheweth it. For though he would have me to rest in this wrighting (without consent of the Classis) yet he well knew this to be no way of accommodation, hut a mere snare to me.

And now, because the Answerer, not only seemeth to charge me with obstinacy for not resting in that determination of the five ministers, but also to insult as if J wanted warrant from the Scripture for mine opinion, because I did not set it down in writing, that the question might be in writing discussed between us, ¹which he offered (as he saith) to some of the Complainants sundry times, (though the vanity of this pretence is in the former Section, declared, yet,) being thus again challenged in print, I may not, without injury to the truth, any longer forbear to give a public account of my judgement in this matter. But first my humble and hearty request to the Reverend ministers of these countries (especially to those in that part) is, that they will not impute it to any contentious disposition, or to love of disputes, much less to a malicious desire of discovering their imperfections to the world, least of all to an arrogant polupragmony in me, as if I, being a stranger, assumed to my self to be a reformer of these Churches, that I freely declare the grounds, whereupon I refused to bind my self to observe that custom. Thus casting my self upon their favourable construction, and praying them equally and judiciously to consider what J say, I will, with Gods ⟨p. 132⟩assistance, (which I humbly beg) proceed to declare my grounds after I have stated the question, by showing the issue and sum of that writing of the five ministers, wherein the Answerer would bind me to rest.

And now, because the Answerer, not only seemeth to charge me with obstinacy for not resting in that determination of the five ministers, but also to insult as if J wanted warrant from the Scripture for myne opinion, because I did not set it downe in wrighting, that the question might be in wrighting discussed betweene us, ¹which he offered (as he sayth) to some of the Complainants sundry times, (though the vanity of this pretence is in the former Section, declared, yet,) being thus againe chalenged in print, I may not, without injury to the truth, any longer forbeare to give a publick account of my judgement in this matter. But first my humble and hearty request to the Reverend ministers of these countryes (especially to those in that part) is, that they will not impute it to any contentious disposition, or to loue of disputes, much lesse to a malicious desire of discovering theyr imperfections to the world, least of all to an arrogant polupragmony in me, as if I, being a stranger, assumed to my selfe to be a reformer of these Churches, that I freely declare the grounds, whereupon I refused to bind my selfe to observe that custom. Thus casting my selfe upon theyr favourable construction, and praying them aequally and judiciously to consider what J say, I will, with Gods

¹Briefly, it was, that I should administer the sacrament of Baptism to all infants that are presented thereunto, if those that present them (whether they be parents, or sureties) shall declare themselves to be Christians, by professing Christian Religion, at the reading of the liturgy of Baptism, though the presenters are altogether unknown to us, yea, though they will not, or cannot satisfy the minister before, that they are such, as in whom the infant hath a right to baptism. This to be so, will easily appear to the intelligent Reader, if he examine the writing which they sent to me. The Answerer and the five ministers required it, as a condition of my admittance to the pastoral office, in that Church, that I should rest in this writing. By resting in it they meant (as both, he and they whom the Classis deputed to speak with me, expressed themselves) that I should promise to conform thereunto: which is, in few words, to administer baptism promiscuously to all that are presented, by whomsoever, according to the custom of that place.

¹Breifly, it was, that I should administer the sacrament of Baptisme to all infants that are presented thereunto, if those that present them (whether they be parents, or suretyes) shall declare themselves to be Christians, by professing Christian Religion, at the reading of the leitourgy of Baptisme, though the presenters are altogether unknowne to us, yea, though they will not, or cannot satisfye the minister before, that they are such, as in whom the infant hath a right to baptisme. This to be so, will easily appeare to the intelligent Reader, if he examine the wrighting which they sent to me. The Answerer and the five ministers required it, as a condition of my admittance to the pastorall office, in that Church, that I should rest in this wrighting. By resting in it they meant (as both, he and they whom the Classis deputed to speake with me, expressed themselves) that I should promise to conforme thereunto: which is, in few words, to administer baptisme promiscuously to all that are presented, by whomsoever, according to the custom of that place.

1. 1The state of the question.

This being the true state of the question, that the validity of my grounds against this custom may appear, I must crave leave to premise some things, 1. Concerning the confused mixture of all sorts of people in Amsterdam. 2. Concerning their manner of admitting those that are brought to baptism. 3. Concerning the manner of professing Christian Religion at the reading of the liturgy of Baptism.

This being the true state of the question, that the validity of my grounds against this custom may appeare, I must crave leave to premise some things, 1. Concerning the confused mixture of all sorts of people in Amsterdam. 2. Concerning theyr manner of admitting those that are brought to baptisme. 3. Concerning the manner of professing Christian Religion at the reading of the leitourgy of Baptisme.

For the First. Besides those of diverse nations, who join themselves to some approved Church, there are many of all sorts of Libertines, in judgement, and practise, and profession, who refuse to join themselves to any Church: Also persons of diverse sects and heresies, as Arians, Antitrinitarians &c. besides Jews, Mores &c. Also Apostates, excommunicates &c. Also vagrants,¹ under the name of soldiers, and others, who are driven forth from among men (as Job speaketh) They cry after them as after a thief, ²children of fools, yea children of base men, viler then ⟨p. 133⟩the earth, and swarms of vagabonds, whom they call potters, which how-soever they range most in troupes, with their Harlots, in the Dorpes, yet they have their lurking places in tap-houses in the cities, called smuckle houses. It were almost an infinite and impossible task to reckon up others which can give no account of their life, religion, or baptism, it may be. Also many, who are unknown, and therefore may be suspected. And these are of diverse nations, English, French, Dutch, High Germans, Walloons. &c.

For the First. Besides those of diverse nations, who joyne themselves to some appoved Church, there are many of all sorts of Libertines, in judgement, and practise, and profession, who refuse to joyne themselves to any Church: Also persons of diverse sects and haeresyes, as Arrians, Antitrinitarians &c. besides Iewes, Mores &c. Also Apostates, excommunicates &c. Also vagrants,¹ under the name of souldiers, and others, who are driven forth from among men (as Iob speaketh) They crye after them as after a theife, ²children of fooles, yea children of base men, viler then ⟨p. 133⟩the earth, and swarmes of vagabonds, whom they call potters, which how-soever they range most in troupes, with their Harlots, in the Dorpes, yet they have their lurking places in tapp-houses in the cittyes, called smuckle houses. It were almost an infinite and impossible taske to reckon up others which can give no account of their life, religion, or baptisme, it may be. Also many, who are unknowne, and therefore may be suspected. And these are of diverse nations, English, French, Dutch, High Germanes, Walloones. &c.

For the second. Their manner is, that, if, either the father, or any one that standeth for him as a surety (though it be but a nurse or other body, who is unknown to the Church) who hath no charge or care for the child's education, if they come time enough, they certify the Coster, or Sexton, of the name of the parents, and their desire before: if not (as sometimes they bring them not till they are baptising others, after the sermon is ended) then, without any further enquiry after the parents, or after their consent to the baptising of it, the child is admitted.

For the second. Their manner is, that, if, either the father, or any one that standeth for him as a surety (though it be but a nurse or other body, who is unknowne to the Church) who hath no charge or care for the childes education, if they come time enough, they certifye the Coster, or Sexton, of the name of the parents, and their desire before: if not (as sometimes they bring them not till they are baptising others, after the sermon is ended) then, without any further enquiry after the parents, or after their consent to the baptising of it, the child is admitted.

For the third. If they say, yea, to such demands as are made by the minister, in reading the liturgy of baptism, though (as some times it appeareth, and may be often suspected) the presenter understand not what the minister demandeth, or saith, for want of knowledge of the Dutch language, or be altogether unknown to the Church, yet the child is baptised.

For the third. If they say, yae, to such demāds as are made by the minister, in reading the leitourgy of baptisme, though (as some times it appeareth, and may be often suspected) the presenter understand not what the minister demandeth, or sayth, for want of knowledge of the Dutch language, or be altogether unkowne to the Church, yet the child is baptised.

These things being premised, I proceed to set down my grounds from the Scripture, whereupon I refused thus promiscuously to administer the Sacrament, which are four, and every one of them concludeth it to be a sin, so to do.

These things being premised, I proceed to set downe my grounds from the Scripture, whereupon I refused thus promiscuously to administer the Sacrament, which are fowre, and every one of them concludeth it to be a sinne, so to doe.

Reas. 1 Because it is a profaning of the Sacrament thus promiscuously to administer it, as that writing requireth.

Reas. 1 Because it is a prophaning of the Sacrament thus promiscuously to administer it, as that wrighting requireth.