An apologetical reply to a book called an answer to the unjust complaint of…An apologeticall reply to a booke called an ansvver to the unjust complaint of…

Pretence. 3 Third pretence] They are manifest Christians which profess Christian Religion, at the reading of the Liturgy of Baptism?

Pretence. 3 Third pretence] They are manifest Christians which professe Christian Religion, at the reading of the Liturgy of Baptisme?

Ans: 1. The name of Christians is a name full of Honour, and wherein Nazianzene, professeth that himself and Basil did glory more,¹ then Gyges in his ring, or Midas in his gold. Shall this honourable badge, and, as it were, livery of Christ his faithful servants, be put upon a company of varlets, whose fathers Job would have disdained to set with the dogs of his flock; as if the practise of a Christian life were not requisite to manifest Christians?

Ans: 1. The name of Christians is a name full of Honour, and wherein Nazianzene, professeth that himselfe and Basill did glory more,¹ then Gyges in his ring, or Midas in his gold. Shall this honourable badge, and, as it were, livery of Christ his faythfull servants, be put upon a company of varlets, whose fathers Job would have disdayned to set with the doggs of his flock; as if the practise of a Christian life were not requisite to manifest Christians?

1. 1Orat: 30. in laud: Basil.

2. If persons, otherwise unknown, are sufficiently manifested to be Christians by such a profession of faith as is usually ⟨p. 166⟩made there at the reading of the Liturgy of Baptism (which is done by saying yea, or some gesture of the body only) to what use was such a declaration of their faith required in the Apostles times, and many ages after?

2. If persons, otherwise unknowne, are sufficiently manifested to be Christians by such a profession of fayth as is usually ⟨p. 166⟩made there at the reading of the Leiturgy of Baptisme (which is done by saying yae, or some gesture of the body only) to what use was such a declaration of their fayth required in the Apostles times, and many ages after?

Lastly the Answerer himself refused to baptise the child of G. P. being excommunicated, and of a profane life, as its said, and I. S. who held with the Anabaptists and Arians, besides some others, yet, I suppose, neither of those refused to make such a profession as is required at the reading of the Liturgy. Now, if their denying to baptise infants in those cases be warrantable; ⟨p. 167⟩how can it be justified that they would compel me to baptise all that are brought, by whomsoever, in that place?

Lastly the Answerer himselfe refused to baptise the child of G. P. being excommunicated, and of a profane life, as its sayd, and I. S. who held with the Anabaptists and Arrians, besides some others, yet, I suppose, neither of those refused to make such a profession as is required at the reading of the Leiturgy. Now, if theyre denying to baptise infants in those cases be warrantable; ⟨p. 167⟩how can it be justifyed that they would compell me to baptise all that are brought, by whomsoever, in that place?

Pretence. 4 Fourth pretence] The infants should not bear the punishment of their fathers sin?

Pretence. 4 Fourth pretence] The infants should not beare the punishment of their fathers sinne?

Ans: 1. If they ground this Assertion upon Ezek: 18.14;¹ it is impertinent, it being there spoken of a son forsaking his fathers sins, and doing the contrary, with whom the Lord dealeth not in the course of his justice, but of mercy. Such were Abijah & Josiah: otherwise, it will not hold in all cases. For, were not infants drowned in the old world, burnt in Sodom, swallowed up of the earth with Corah, plagued in Egypt (especially in the death of the first borne) stoned with Achan, destroyed with the Canaanites and Amalekites, rooted out by judgements upon the families of Eli, Jeroboam, Baashan &c. with their parents?

Ans: 1. If they ground this Assertion upon Ezek: 18.14;¹ it is impertinent, it being there spoken of a sonne forsaking his fathers sinnes, and doing the contrary, with whom the Lord dealeth not in the course of his justice, but of mercy. Such were Abijah & Iosiah: otherwise, it will not hold in all cases. For, were not infants drowned in the old world, burnt in Sodom, swallowed up of the earth with Corah, plagued in Aegipt (especially in the death of the first borne) stoned with Achan, destroyed with the Cananites and Amalekites, rooted out by judgements upon the familyes of Eli, Ieroboam, Baashan &c. with their parents?

1. 1Ezek. 18.14.17.

2. To come punctually to the question. With Cain,¹ his posterity were driven from the face of God, except so many of them as joined with the family of Seth, the Church of God, and thence arose the different names of the sons of God and the daughters of men. So were the Ishmaelites and Edomites, with Ismael, and Esau, their Fathers. At this day, the children of the Jews are broken off, with their fathers, for unbelief, and are become strangers from the Covenant of promise, and so have no right to the Sacraments, the outward seals of the covenant.

2. To come punctually to the question. With Cain,¹ his posterity were driven from the face of God, except so many of them as joyned with the family of Seth, the Church of God, and thence arose the different names of the sonnes of God and the daughters of men. So were the Ismaelites and Edomites, with Ismael, and Esau, their Fathers. At this day, the children of the Iewes are broken off, with their fathers, for unbeleife, and are become strangers from the Covenant of promise, and so have no right to the Sacraments, the outward seales of the covenant.

1. 1Gen. 4.16 Cap. 6.2. Vide Bez. de excom. p. 35.

3. What difference soever we make between infants,¹ in this respect, yet 1. It doeth not enter into Gods decree concerning Election. For secret things we leave to God. 2. Nor doeth it concern the eternal salvation of the infant, which is not at all prejudiced by the want of baptism, it being not by its own contempt, or neglect of it, (else we must conclude all those infants to be damned, which died in the wilderness, being uncircumcised, which God forbid!) but it only concerneth their admission, or not admission into a visible Church. And so a difference may, and must be made. For, though all infants are by nature alike children of wrath. Yet, in respect of the Adoption outwardly manifested, they are not alike, especially to us, and in reference to Church privileges. For, I demand, was Jsaack, and the ⟨p. 168⟩children of the heathen alike, in this respect. And, if no child should be denied the Sacrament for the parents sin, why are not the infants of Jews, Turks, Indians, Moors, Gypsies admitted, without any difference, to baptism?

3. What difference soever we make betweene infants,¹ in this respect, yet 1. It doeth not enter into Gods decree cōcerning Election. For secret things we leave to God. 2. Nor doeth it concerne the aeternall salvation of the infant, which is not at all praejudiced by the want of baptisme, it being not by its owne contempt, or neglect of it, (else we must conclude all those infants to be damned, which died in the wildernes, being uncircū cised, which God forbid!) but it only concerneth their admission, or not admission into a visible Church. And so a difference may, and must be made. For, though all infants are by nature alike children of wrath. Yet, in respect of the Adoption outwardly manifested, they are not alike, especially to us, and in reference to Church priviledges. For, I demand, was Jsaack, and the ⟨p. 168⟩children of the heathen alike, in this respect. And, if no child should be denyed the Sacrament for the parents sinne, why are not the infants of Iewes, Turkes, Indians, Moores, Gypses admitted, without any difference, to baptisme?

Pretence. 5 Fifth pretence.] The five Ministers yielded, that, if any other case fell out, whereby it may seem that the infant presented should not be baptised, that then the judgment of the whole English presbytery, or also, if need be, and if conveniently it may be done, that the judgment of the Classis of Amsterdam be obtained, heard, and rested in.

Pretence. 5 Fifth pretence.] The five Ministers yeelded, that, if any other case fell out, whereby it may seeme that the infant presented should not be baptised, that then the judgment of the wholl English presbytery, or also, if need be, and if conveniently it may be done, that the judgment of the Classis of Amsterdam be obtayned, heard, and rested in.

Ans:] This concession of the five Ministers, which is used for a pretence against me, is really and indeed much against themselves. For.

1. Their judgment is, that I should be left free, in any other case, to order my practise in admitting infants to baptism, by the advice of the English presbytery, without requiring the counsel of the Classis, or observing, the custom of that place therein. If so, why not in this case also? The case whereat I stuck, was to be free not to baptise those infants, whose parents, being no members of that Church, are altogether unknown. For which purpose I insisted upon this demand (which I still think to be equal, and, in that place, necessary) that none such should present their children in public to be baptised by me, till I had before received satisfaction concerning them, by private conference with them, or otherwise. Yet, to prevent all offence, I freely offered, in any difficult case that might fall out, to acquaint the English presbytery with it, and to seek their advise.

1. Their judgment is, that I should be left free, in any other case, to order my practise in admitting infants to baptisme, by the advice of the English presbytery, without requiring the counsail of the Classis, or observing, the custom of that place therein. If so, why not in this case also? The case whereat I stuck, was to be free not to baptise those infants, whose parents, being no members of that Church, are altogether unknowne. For which purpose I insisted upon this demand (which I still thinck to be aequall, and, in that place, necessary) that none such should present their children in publick to be baptised by me, till I had before received satisfaction concerning them, by private conference with them, or otherwise. Yet, to prevent all offence, I freely offered, in any difficult case that might fall out, to acquaint the English presbytery with it, and to seeke their advise.

Now, if my demand, about being satisfied concerning the parents and presenters, be judged by those five learned and prudent men fit to be granted, in any other case, why not in this case? Let the difference be shown between other cases and this, in reference to my demand. Will they say, this case is already determined? Let them show where. If they say in the Scripture; Let them allege one text from the first of Genesis to the last of the Revelations for it. If they say, in some National Synod of these Countries; Let them name the Synod, and produce the Canon, in any one Synod that hath been from the ⟨p. 169⟩beginning of Reformation to this day. If they cannot, as it is certain they cannot, where then? If they say in the Classis; It will concern the Classis to show, 1, by what right they take upon them to limit the Churches in such cases, wherein the Scriptures and the Synods have left them at liberty, 2. How this cometh to be so particularly and severely pressed upon the Ministers of the English Church, seeing no more is required of the Ministers of any other Church, by the Classical orders, then to subscribe to the Catechism, and to the Belgic Confession, and to the last Synod of Dort, but no such practise is taught or defended in any one of these.

Now, if my demand, about being satisfyed concerning the parents and presenters, be judged by those five learned and prudent men fit to be granted, in any other case, why not in this case? Let the difference be shewen betweene other cases and this, in reference to my demand. Will they say, this case is already determined? Let them shew where. If they say in the Scripture; Let them alleadge one text from the first of Genesis to the last of the Revelations for it. If they say, in some Nationall Synod of these Countryes; Let them name the Synod, and produce the Canon, in any one Synod that hath bene from the ⟨p. 169⟩beginning of Reformation to this day. Jf they cannot, as it is certaine they cannot, where then? If they say in the Classis; It will concerne the Classis to shew, 1, by what right they take upon them to limit the Churches in such cases, wherein the Scriptures and the Synods have left them at liberty, 2. How this commeth to be so particularly and severely pressed upon the Ministers of the English Church, seing no more is required of the Ministers of any other Church, by the Classicall orders, then to subscribe to the Catechisme, and to the Belgick Confession, and to the last Synod of Dort, but no such practise is taught or defended in any one of these.

2. This further may be collected out of the concession of these five Ministers, that the judgment of the English presbytery is sufficient, in some cases which may fall out and cause doubts in the Minister about baptizing some that are brought, and that in those cases it is to be heard and rested in, if it can be obtained, without the judgment of the Classis, which the Minister is not bound to seek, but when it is needful, through his not obtaining the other. Herein they contradict the Answerer, who concludeth the Elders to be insufficient for this, and that,¹ not by a common insufficiency that is in all men for holy administrations 1. Cor. 2.16. but by a special insufficiency in cases of this nature. Which is the rather to be observed, because there he saith that the Classis hath already judged and determined it, and therefore they are insufficient: but here he saith, the five Ministers have referred me to the judgment of the English presbytery, & elsewhere he saith,² that this writing of the five Ministers was by all the ministers of the Classis, with one consent, approved and confirmed. If this be so; then the Classis have not judged the Elders to be insufficient in cases of this nature. Thus he may be found not only contradicted by the Classis, but also contradictory to himself.

2. This further may be collected out of the concession of these five Ministers, that the judgment of the English presbytery is sufficient, in some cases which may fall out and cause doubts in the Minister about baptizing some that are brought, and that in those cases it is to be heard and rested in, if it can be obtayned, without the judgment of the Classis, which the Minister is not bound to seeke, but when it is needfull, through his not obtayning the other. Herein they contradict the Answerer, who concludeth the Elders to be insufficient for this, and that,¹ not by a common insufficiency that is in all men for holy administrations 1. Cor. 2.16. but by a speciall insufficiency in cases of this nature. Which is the rather to be observed, because there he sayth that the Classis hath already judged and determined it, and therefore they are insufficient: but here he sayth, the five Ministers have referred me to the judgment of the English presbytery, & elsewhere he sayth,

3. This also is implied in this expression of the five Ministers, that, if the judgment of the presbytery cannot be obtained, and so it be needful to seek the judgment of the Classis, that then it should be heard and rested in, so far as the judgment of the presbytery should have been rested in, if it could ⟨p. 170⟩have been obtained. So far, I say. For, the Answerer saith, there are cases, ¹wherein their judgment must not be rested in, but the matter must be brought to the Classis. Whereunto I add, that there are cases, wherein we must not rest in the determination of Classes, or Synods, but appeal to the Scriptures, as to the highest judicatory, and therefore are alike bound to rest in the determination of the presbytery, and of the Classis, that is, in neither of them, further then they agree with the Scripture.

3. This also is implyed in this expression of the five Ministers, that, if the judgment of the presbytery cannot be obtayned, and so it be needfull to seeke the judgment of the Classis, that then it should be heard and rested in, so farr as the judgment of the presbytery should have bene rested in, if it could ⟨p. 170⟩have bene obtained. So farr, I say. For, the Answerer sayth, there are cases, ¹wherin their judgment must not be rested in, but the matter must be brought to the Classis. Whereunto I add, that there are cases, wherein we must not rest in the determination of Classes, or Synods, but appeale to the Scriptures, as to the highest judicatory, and therefore are alike bound to rest in the determination of the presbytery, and of the Classis, that is, in neither of them, further then they agree with the Scripture.

1. 1Sect. 24.

4. When they add, that the judgment of the Classis is to be sought, in case of necessity, so far as it may be done conveniently, they suppose truly, that the case may be such, as it cannot be done conveniently, or at all done, when a Minister is put upon it suddenly. For even whilst he is in the pulpit, the child is brought, many times: where shall he find the Classis, at such a time, when he can not have time so much as to advise with the Elders that sit before him, without making some public disturbance? which very consideration serveth to declare the reasonableness of my demand for private satisfaction to be given me before hand, to prevent all public disturbance.

4. When they add, that the judgment of the Classis is to be saught, in case of necessity, so farr as it may be done conveniently, they suppose truely, that the case may be such, as it cannot be done conveniently, or at all done, when a Minister is put upon it suddenly. For even whilest he is in the pulpit, the child is brought, many times: where shall he find the Classis, at such a time, when he can not have time so much as to advise with the Elders that sit before him, without making some publick disturbance? which very consideration serveth to declare the reasonablenes of my demand for private satisfaction to be given me before hand, to prevent all publick disturbance.