An apologetical reply to a book called an answer to the unjust complaint of…An apologeticall reply to a booke called an ansvver to the unjust complaint of…

1. Their judgment is, that I should be left free, in any other case, to order my practise in admitting infants to baptism, by the advice of the English presbytery, without requiring the counsel of the Classis, or observing, the custom of that place therein. If so, why not in this case also? The case whereat I stuck, was to be free not to baptise those infants, whose parents, being no members of that Church, are altogether unknown. For which purpose I insisted upon this demand (which I still think to be equal, and, in that place, necessary) that none such should present their children in public to be baptised by me, till I had before received satisfaction concerning them, by private conference with them, or otherwise. Yet, to prevent all offence, I freely offered, in any difficult case that might fall out, to acquaint the English presbytery with it, and to seek their advise.

1. Their judgment is, that I should be left free, in any other case, to order my practise in admitting infants to baptisme, by the advice of the English presbytery, without requiring the counsail of the Classis, or observing, the custom of that place therein. If so, why not in this case also? The case whereat I stuck, was to be free not to baptise those infants, whose parents, being no members of that Church, are altogether unknowne. For which purpose I insisted upon this demand (which I still thinck to be aequall, and, in that place, necessary) that none such should present their children in publick to be baptised by me, till I had before received satisfaction concerning them, by private conference with them, or otherwise. Yet, to prevent all offence, I freely offered, in any difficult case that might fall out, to acquaint the English presbytery with it, and to seeke their advise.

Now, if my demand, about being satisfied concerning the parents and presenters, be judged by those five learned and prudent men fit to be granted, in any other case, why not in this case? Let the difference be shown between other cases and this, in reference to my demand. Will they say, this case is already determined? Let them show where. If they say in the Scripture; Let them allege one text from the first of Genesis to the last of the Revelations for it. If they say, in some National Synod of these Countries; Let them name the Synod, and produce the Canon, in any one Synod that hath been from the ⟨p. 169⟩beginning of Reformation to this day. If they cannot, as it is certain they cannot, where then? If they say in the Classis; It will concern the Classis to show, 1, by what right they take upon them to limit the Churches in such cases, wherein the Scriptures and the Synods have left them at liberty, 2. How this cometh to be so particularly and severely pressed upon the Ministers of the English Church, seeing no more is required of the Ministers of any other Church, by the Classical orders, then to subscribe to the Catechism, and to the Belgic Confession, and to the last Synod of Dort, but no such practise is taught or defended in any one of these.

Now, if my demand, about being satisfyed concerning the parents and presenters, be judged by those five learned and prudent men fit to be granted, in any other case, why not in this case? Let the difference be shewen betweene other cases and this, in reference to my demand. Will they say, this case is already determined? Let them shew where. If they say in the Scripture; Let them alleadge one text from the first of Genesis to the last of the Revelations for it. If they say, in some Nationall Synod of these Countryes; Let them name the Synod, and produce the Canon, in any one Synod that hath bene from the ⟨p. 169⟩beginning of Reformation to this day. Jf they cannot, as it is certaine they cannot, where then? If they say in the Classis; It will concerne the Classis to shew, 1, by what right they take upon them to limit the Churches in such cases, wherein the Scriptures and the Synods have left them at liberty, 2. How this commeth to be so particularly and severely pressed upon the Ministers of the English Church, seing no more is required of the Ministers of any other Church, by the Classicall orders, then to subscribe to the Catechisme, and to the Belgick Confession, and to the last Synod of Dort, but no such practise is taught or defended in any one of these.

2. This further may be collected out of the concession of these five Ministers, that the judgment of the English presbytery is sufficient, in some cases which may fall out and cause doubts in the Minister about baptizing some that are brought, and that in those cases it is to be heard and rested in, if it can be obtained, without the judgment of the Classis, which the Minister is not bound to seek, but when it is needful, through his not obtaining the other. Herein they contradict the Answerer, who concludeth the Elders to be insufficient for this, and that,¹ not by a common insufficiency that is in all men for holy administrations 1. Cor. 2.16. but by a special insufficiency in cases of this nature. Which is the rather to be observed, because there he saith that the Classis hath already judged and determined it, and therefore they are insufficient: but here he saith, the five Ministers have referred me to the judgment of the English presbytery, & elsewhere he saith,² that this writing of the five Ministers was by all the ministers of the Classis, with one consent, approved and confirmed. If this be so; then the Classis have not judged the Elders to be insufficient in cases of this nature. Thus he may be found not only contradicted by the Classis, but also contradictory to himself.

2. This further may be collected out of the concession of these five Ministers, that the judgment of the English presbytery is sufficient, in some cases which may fall out and cause doubts in the Minister about baptizing some that are brought, and that in those cases it is to be heard and rested in, if it can be obtayned, without the judgment of the Classis, which the Minister is not bound to seeke, but when it is needfull, through his not obtayning the other. Herein they contradict the Answerer, who concludeth the Elders to be insufficient for this, and that,¹ not by a common insufficiency that is in all men for holy administrations 1. Cor. 2.16. but by a speciall insufficiency in cases of this nature. Which is the rather to be observed, because there he sayth that the Classis hath already judged and determined it, and therefore they are insufficient: but here he sayth, the five Ministers have referred me to the judgment of the English presbytery, & elsewhere he sayth,

4. When they add, that the judgment of the Classis is to be sought, in case of necessity, so far as it may be done conveniently, they suppose truly, that the case may be such, as it cannot be done conveniently, or at all done, when a Minister is put upon it suddenly. For even whilst he is in the pulpit, the child is brought, many times: where shall he find the Classis, at such a time, when he can not have time so much as to advise with the Elders that sit before him, without making some public disturbance? which very consideration serveth to declare the reasonableness of my demand for private satisfaction to be given me before hand, to prevent all public disturbance.

4. When they add, that the judgment of the Classis is to be saught, in case of necessity, so farr as it may be done conveniently, they suppose truely, that the case may be such, as it cannot be done conveniently, or at all done, when a Minister is put upon it suddenly. For even whilest he is in the pulpit, the child is brought, many times: where shall he find the Classis, at such a time, when he can not have time so much as to advise with the Elders that sit before him, without making some publick disturbance? which very consideration serveth to declare the reasonablenes of my demand for private satisfaction to be given me before hand, to prevent all publick disturbance.

5. This seeming concession is merely seeming, and it is contradictory to it self. For 1, if there are cases, wherein the judgment of the Elders will be requisite and necessary; why do they hinder me from the use of means to find out those causes, when they bind me to baptise those that are brought, though I have no knowledge of them, by private conference, or otherwise? 2. If that way of having some precedent private examination of the parents & sureties in Christian Religion be so greatly approved by them, that they do judge that this fore said examination be ordained, so far as may stand with the edification of the English Church: why do they afterwards add, that if the parents or sureties shall refuse to come, & undergo this examination, or those that do come, shall not seem, for that time, to satisfy the brethren &c. yet the infant &c. shall not therefore be excluded from baptism, or deprived thereof. This is that which the Satire could not understand, that a man should warm his hands and cool his pottage with the same blast of breath, nor can I see how, by the same men, in the same writing, ⟨p. 171⟩the same course should be so greatly approved and applauded, that they judge that it must be ordained, and yet afterward so much slighted, that men that will not submit to it, are left free, and that by their ordinance, to do what they list. The end of that ordinance was the edification of the English Church, by a reverend and right use of the Seals: If, for this end, that course is to be ordained: why is it not to be maintained for the same end? Either it is too frivolous •o be ordained to such an end, or it is too weighty to be slighted, in such a manner,

5. This seeming concession is merely seeming, and it is contradictory to it selfe. For 1, if there are cases, wherein the judgment of the Elders will be requisite and necessary; why doe they hinder me from the use of meanes to find out those causes, when they bind me to baptise those that are brought, though I have no knowledge of them, by private conference, or otherwise? 2. If that way of having some precedent private examination of the parents & suretyes in Christian Religion be so greatly approved by them, that they doe judge that this fore said examination be ordayned, so farr as may stand with the aedification of the English Church: why doe they afterwards add, that if the parēts or suretyes shall refuse to come, & undergoe this examination, or those that doe come, shall not seeme, for that time, to satisfye the brethren &c. yet the infant &c. shall not therefore be excluded from baptisme, or deprived thereof. This is that which the Satyre could not understand, that a man should warme his hands and coole his pottage with the same blast of breath, nor can I see how, by the same men, in the same wrighting,

6. What help can be expected from the English presbytery, in this case, whe• the Answerer will always interpose, either to have matters concluded according to this custom, and his former practise, or else he will protest against their judgement in this matter, and carry it to the Classis, under a pretence that they were insufficient, or partial, or there was some difference. How can it be expected to be otherwise, if he resolve to carry matters in his way, or else to make a difference, that there may be some ground for appeal to the Classis, as to an higher judicatory?

6. What helpe can be expected from the English presbytery, in this case, whe• the Answerer will alwayes interpose, either to have matters concluded according to this custom, and his former practise, or else he will protest against their judgement in this matter, and carry it to the Classis, under a pretence that they were insufficient, or partiall, or there was some difference. How can it be expected to be otherwise, if he resolve to carry matters in his way, or else to make a difference, that there may be some ground for appeale to the Classis, as to an higher judicatory?

Pretence. 6 Sixth pretence] This manner of admitting those that are brought thus promiscuously is approved by the judgment of the five godly and learned ministers, who protest, in the presence of God, that, in this advise they deal sincerely, and with a good conscience, desiring nothing more then to further my calling.

Pretence. 6 Sixth pretence] This manner of admitting those that are brought thus promiscuously is approved by the judgment of the five godly and learned ministers, who protest, in the presence of God, that, in this advise they deale sincerely, and with a good conscience, desiring nothing more then to further my calling.

Ans:] This pretence hath so much show in it, that the Answerer himself was deceived by it, and encouraged to place too much confidence in it, as appeareth in the various uses he hath made of it, upon several occasions. In which respect, it will be convenient, that we examine it very particularly, which that I may do, we will draw the strength of it into four heads, which we will express in so many objections, and subnect their several answers.

Ans:] This pretence hath so much shew in it, that the Answerer himselfe was deceived by it, and incouraged to place too much confidence in it, as appeareth in the various uses he hath made of it, upon severall occasions. Jn which respect, it will be convenient, that we examine it very particularly, which that I may doe, we will draw the strength of it into fowre heads, which we will expresse in so many objections, and subnect their severall answers.

Ob. 1 This custom is approved of by the judgment of the five learned and prudent men?

Ans. 1 It is not sufficient that learned and prudent men approve of a thing, unless the grounds, whereupon they do it, be declared, and approved to be sufficient. Tertullian was a learned man. ⟨p. 172⟩Yet Jerome taxeth him for an error about monogamy, ¹or the unlawfulness of second marriages. Origen was a learned man: Yet Augustine accuseth him of an error about the salvation of the Devils, at last. Hierom was a learned man: yet he erred in holding the merit of the minister to be necessary to the making of the Sacrament. Augustine was a learned man: yet he erred about the absolute necessity of baptism to salvation. And Chrysostom was a learned m••: Yet he erred when he hold, that where spiritual books are, the Devils have no power. These 5 Ancients, all men will confess, are not inferior in learning or prudence to the five Dutch ministers who subscribed that writing, yet they erred.

Ans. 1 It is not sufficient that learned and prudent men approve of a thing, unles the grounds, whereupon they doe it, be delared, and approved to be sufficient. Tertullian was a learned man. ⟨p. 172⟩Yet Ierom taxeth him for an errour about monogamy, ¹or the unlawfullnes of second marriages. Origen was a learned man: Yet Augustine accuseth him of an errour about the salvation of the Devills, at last. Hierom was a learned man: yet he erred in holding the merit of the minister to be necessary to the making of the Sacrament. Augustine was a learned man: yet he erred about the absolute necessity of baptisme to salvation. And Chrysostom was a learned m••: Yet he erred when he hold, that where spirituall bookes are, the Devills have no power. These 5 Ancients, all men will confesse, are not inferiour in learning or prudence to the five Dutch ministers who subscribed that wrighting, yet they erred.

1. 1Hieron in Tit. Cap. 1 Aug: de Civit. dei. lib. 21. Cap. 17. Hieron in Zep: 3. Aug: Epist 28. Chrisost: Hom: 3. de Lazaro.

2. The Answerer himself pretendeth the same cause for his not resting in the judgment of more then five as learned and prudent men as these,¹ in a question that concerned me. Will such a plea hold in that case? Then much more in this.

2. The Answerer himselfe pretendeth the same cause for his not resting in the judgment of more then five as learned and prudent men as these,¹ in a question that concerned me. Will such a plea hold in that case? Then much more in this.

1. 1Sect: 9. Ans. 3.

Ob. 2 Though learned and prudent men may err apart: yet when so many consult together, and conclude upon a point; their judgment jointly declared, should be rested in?

Ob. 2 Though learned and prudent men may erre apart: yet when so many consult together, and conclude upon a point; their judgment joyntly declared, should be rested in?

The judgment of learned and prudent men is to be received with all due reverence; though they severally & apart express it, much more, when they, joining together in consultation, do consent and agree in one conclusion: provided that the truth do not suffer prejudice by mens authority. In which respect it was learnedly and prudently said by Augustine.¹ Hear that which the Lord saith, not that which Donatus saith, Rogatus saith, Vincentius saith, Hilarius saith, Ambrose saith, Augustine saith. (yet these were six learned and prudent men) but hear what the Lord saith. ²For to do otherwise, what is it but to say, I am of Paul, and I of Apollos, and I of Cephas; which the Scripture condemneth.

The judgment of learned and prudent men is to be received with all due reverence; though they severally & apart expresse it, much more, when they, joyning together in consultation, doe consent and agree in one conclusion: provided that the truth doe not suffer praejudice by mens authority. In which respect it was learnedly and prudently sayd by Augustine.¹ Heare that which the Lord sayth, not that which Donatus sayth, Rogatus sayth, Ʋincentius sayth, Hilarius sayth, Ambrose saith, Augustine sayth. (yet these were six learned and prudent men) but heare what the Lord sayth. ²For to doe otherwise, what is it but to say, I am of Paul, and I of Apollos, and I of Cephas; which the Scripture condemneth.

1. 1Aug: Epist: 48.
2. 21 Cor: 1.12.

2. Why may not five together err as well as five asunder? 1. Suppose Tertullian, and Lactantius, and Victorinus, and Ireneus,¹ and Apollinarius, five learned and prudent men, who held the error of the Millenaries (as Jerome reporteth) had subscribed a writing to assure Jerome of the truth of that opinion: would he have thought himself bound to rest in that their opinion, upon ⟨p. 173⟩their naked affirmation, which he judged to be their error? 2. Suppose that those five learned and prudent men, Dr. Ames, Mr. Forbes, Mr. Hooker, Mr. Balmford, Mr. Roe had sent such a writing of their private judgment against this disorder of promiscuous baptising to this Answerer? would he think himself bound to rest therein? If not: why doeth he require this of me?

2. Why may not five together erre as well as five asunder? 1. Suppose Tertullian, and Lactantius, and Victorinus, and Ireneus,¹ and Apollinarius, five learned and prudent men, who held the errour of the Millenaryes (as Ierom reporteth) had subscribed a wrighting to assure Ierom of the truth of that opinion: would he have thought himselfe bound to rest in that their opinion, upon ⟨p. 173⟩their naked affirmation, which he judged to be their errour? 2. Suppose that those five learned and prudent men, Dr. Ames, Mr. Forbes, Mr. Hooker, Mr. Balmford, Mr. Roe had sent such a wrighting of their private judgment against this disorder of promiscuous baptising to this Answerer? would he thinck himselfe bound to rest therein? If not: why doeth he require this of me?

1. 1Hieron: in Ezek. lib. 11. Cap. 36.

But they protest in the presence of God, that they dealt sincerely, ¹and with a good conscience?

But they protest in the presence of God, that they dealt sincerly, ¹and with a good conscience?

1. 13. Ob.