A19884:655
A19884:655
An apologetical reply to a book called an answer to the unjust complaint of VV.B. Also an answer to Mr. I.D. touching his report of some passages. His allegation of Scriptures against the baptising of some kind of infants. His protestation about the publishing of his writings. By John Davenport BD.An apologeticall reply to a booke called an ansvver to the unjust complaint of VV.B. Also an answer to Mr. I.D. touching his report of some passages. His allegation of Scriptures against the baptising of some kind of infants. His protestation about the publishing of his wrightings. By Iohn Davenporte BD.
Rotterdam: printed by Isaac van Waesberghe, 1636Rotterdam: printed by Isaack van Waesberghe, 1636
Modern spelling is a reading aid: the words are the author’s, only the spelling is modernized. Original shows the page as printed, with the transcription marks.
Pretence. 6 Sixth pretence] This manner of admitting those that are brought thus promiscuously is approved by the judgment of the five godly and learned ministers, who protest, in the presence of God, that, in this advise they deal sincerely, and with a good conscience, desiring nothing more then to further my calling.
Pretence. 6 Sixth pretence] This manner of admitting those that are brought thus promiscuously is approved by the judgment of the five godly and learned ministers, who protest, in the presence of God, that, in this advise they deale sincerely, and with a good conscience, desiring nothing more then to further my calling.
Ans:] This pretence hath so much show in it, that the Answerer himself was deceived by it, and encouraged to place too much confidence in it, as appeareth in the various uses he hath made of it, upon several occasions. In which respect, it will be convenient, that we examine it very particularly, which that I may do, we will draw the strength of it into four heads, which we will express in so many objections, and subnect their several answers.
Ans:] This pretence hath so much shew in it, that the Answerer himselfe was deceived by it, and incouraged to place too much confidence in it, as appeareth in the various uses he hath made of it, upon severall occasions. Jn which respect, it will be convenient, that we examine it very particularly, which that I may doe, we will draw the strength of it into fowre heads, which we will expresse in so many objections, and subnect their severall answers.
Ob. 1 This custom is approved of by the judgment of the five learned and prudent men?
Ans. 1 It is not sufficient that learned and prudent men approve of a thing, unless the grounds, whereupon they do it, be declared, and approved to be sufficient. Tertullian was a learned man. ⟨p. 172⟩Yet Jerome taxeth him for an error about monogamy, 1or the unlawfulness of second marriages. Origen was a learned man: Yet Augustine accuseth him of an error about the salvation of the Devils, at last. Hierom was a learned man: yet he erred in holding the merit of the minister to be necessary to the making of the Sacrament. Augustine was a learned man: yet he erred about the absolute necessity of baptism to salvation. And Chrysostom was a learned m••: Yet he erred when he hold, that where spiritual books are, the Devils have no power. These 5 Ancients, all men will confess, are not inferior in learning or prudence to the five Dutch ministers who subscribed that writing, yet they erred.
Ans. 1 It is not sufficient that learned and prudent men approve of a thing, unles the grounds, whereupon they doe it, be delared, and approved to be sufficient. Tertullian was a learned man. ⟨p. 172⟩Yet Ierom taxeth him for an errour about monogamy, 1or the unlawfullnes of second marriages. Origen was a learned man: Yet Augustine accuseth him of an errour about the salvation of the Devills, at last. Hierom was a learned man: yet he erred in holding the merit of the minister to be necessary to the making of the Sacrament. Augustine was a learned man: yet he erred about the absolute necessity of baptisme to salvation. And Chrysostom was a learned m••: Yet he erred when he hold, that where spirituall bookes are, the Devills have no power. These 5 Ancients, all men will confesse, are not inferiour in learning or prudence to the five Dutch ministers who subscribed that wrighting, yet they erred.
2. The Answerer himself pretendeth the same cause for his not resting in the judgment of more then five as learned and prudent men as these,1 in a question that concerned me. Will such a plea hold in that case? Then much more in this.
2. The Answerer himselfe pretendeth the same cause for his not resting in the judgment of more then five as learned and prudent men as these,1 in a question that concerned me. Will such a plea hold in that case? Then much more in this.
Ob. 2 Though learned and prudent men may err apart: yet when so many consult together, and conclude upon a point; their judgment jointly declared, should be rested in?
Ob. 2 Though learned and prudent men may erre apart: yet when so many consult together, and conclude upon a point; their judgment joyntly declared, should be rested in?
The judgment of learned and prudent men is to be received with all due reverence; though they severally & apart express it, much more, when they, joining together in consultation, do consent and agree in one conclusion: provided that the truth do not suffer prejudice by mens authority. In which respect it was learnedly and prudently said by Augustine.1 Hear that which the Lord saith, not that which Donatus saith, Rogatus saith, Vincentius saith, Hilarius saith, Ambrose saith, Augustine saith. (yet these were six learned and prudent men) but hear what the Lord saith. 2For to do otherwise, what is it but to say, I am of Paul, and I of Apollos, and I of Cephas; which the Scripture condemneth.
The judgment of learned and prudent men is to be received with all due reverence; though they severally & apart expresse it, much more, when they, joyning together in consultation, doe consent and agree in one conclusion: provided that the truth doe not suffer praejudice by mens authority. In which respect it was learnedly and prudently sayd by Augustine.1 Heare that which the Lord sayth, not that which Donatus sayth, Rogatus sayth, Ʋincentius sayth, Hilarius sayth, Ambrose saith, Augustine sayth. (yet these were six learned and prudent men) but heare what the Lord sayth. 2For to doe otherwise, what is it but to say, I am of Paul, and I of Apollos, and I of Cephas; which the Scripture condemneth.
2. Why may not five together err as well as five asunder? 1. Suppose Tertullian, and Lactantius, and Victorinus, and Ireneus,1 and Apollinarius, five learned and prudent men, who held the error of the Millenaries (as Jerome reporteth) had subscribed a writing to assure Jerome of the truth of that opinion: would he have thought himself bound to rest in that their opinion, upon ⟨p. 173⟩their naked affirmation, which he judged to be their error? 2. Suppose that those five learned and prudent men, Dr. Ames, Mr. Forbes, Mr. Hooker, Mr. Balmford, Mr. Roe had sent such a writing of their private judgment against this disorder of promiscuous baptising to this Answerer? would he think himself bound to rest therein? If not: why doeth he require this of me?
2. Why may not five together erre as well as five asunder? 1. Suppose Tertullian, and Lactantius, and Victorinus, and Ireneus,1 and Apollinarius, five learned and prudent men, who held the errour of the Millenaryes (as Ierom reporteth) had subscribed a wrighting to assure Ierom of the truth of that opinion: would he have thought himselfe bound to rest in that their opinion, upon ⟨p. 173⟩their naked affirmation, which he judged to be their errour? 2. Suppose that those five learned and prudent men, Dr. Ames, Mr. Forbes, Mr. Hooker, Mr. Balmford, Mr. Roe had sent such a wrighting of their private judgment against this disorder of promiscuous baptising to this Answerer? would he thinck himselfe bound to rest therein? If not: why doeth he require this of me?
Ans:1 Nathan dealt sincerely & with a good conscience (as he thought, and would have protested, if it had been required) when he advised David about building a Temple to the Lord, & encouraged him thereunto: Yet he erred. Peter thought he dealt sincerely and with a good conscience (and, before Paul had convinced him of his evil, it may be, would have protested it also) in his temporizing first with the Gentiles,2 and then with those of the Circumcision: yet he erred. Those famous lights, spoken of before, thought they dealt sincerely, and with a good conscience, in those opinions which they defended: yet they erred.
Ans:1 Nathan dealt sincerely & with a good conscience (as he thought, and would have protested, if it had bene required) when he advised David about building a Temple to the Lord, & incouraged him thereunto: Yet he erred. Peter thought he dealt sincerely and with a good conscience (and, before Paul had convinced him of his evill, it may be, would have protested it also) in his temporizing first with the Gentiles,2 and then with those of the Circumcision: yet he erred. Those famous lights, spoken of before, thought they dealt sincerely, and with a good conscience, in those opinions which they defended: yet they erred.
They desired nothing more then to further the promotion of Mr. D. 1to the ministry of the English Church?
Ans: 1. I do easily believe that the Dutch Ministers did really desire my settling there, and that, when they went to the Answerer, their purpose was to further it. And I am persuaded of them, that when they wrote to me, they did it, upon some encouraging intimations suggested by the Answerer, that a letter from them signifying the concurrence and consent of their judgment with him in this point would prevail to draw me to yield to it. I am also confident, they were the more apt to approve such courses of accommodation, as, they saw, would best please him, upon a conceit that the Answerer himself did much desire me, which also themselves did intimate in the writing subscribed by them. So that their miscarriage in this business was not from any disaffection to me, or desire of hindering my settling there, but from too much credulity and tractableness to comply with the Answerer, in his way, the issue of whose purpose, ⟨p. 174⟩they foresaw not. These things being premised, I proceed to show the reason, why I could not rest in their counsel, in this particular.
Ans: 1. I doe easily beleive that the Dutch Ministers did really desire my setling there, and that, when they went to the Answerer, their purpose was to further it. And I am perswaded of them, that when they wrote to me, they did it, upon some incouraging intimations suggested by the Answerer, that a letter from them signifying the concurrence and consent of theire judgment with him in this point would prevaile to draw me to yeeld to it. I am also confident, they were the more apt to approve such courses of accommodation, as, they saw, would best please him, vpon a conceit that the Answerer himselfe did much desire me, which also themselves did intimate in the wrighting subscribed by them. So that their miscarrage in this buisenes was not from any disaffection to me, or desire of hindring my settling there, but from too much credulity and tractablenes to complye with the Answerer, in his way, the issue of whose purpose, ⟨p. 174⟩they foresaw not. These things being premised, I proceed to shew the reason, why I could not rest in their conusaile, in this particular.
2. Two things, especially, hindered me from resting therein. 1. Because the same thing which they propounded, only as their private judgment, the Answered pressed as a law to me, wherein I must rest, that is, conform thereunto, and this my resting therein must be the condition, whereupon he would consent to my settling there, else not. So that his finger was heavier upon me, in this, then their loins, & he assumed a power to himself of prescribing rules to me, which the government of these churches hath not given him, yea, more then is given to the Classes themselves by any Synod, or to any Synod by the word of God, to enjoin this thing to a Minister as a condition of his call to a pastoral charge. 2. Because the five Ministers propounded their private judgment nakedly without showing their grounds from the Scripture, so that they seemed to me to deal by their authority, not by argument. Now the mere authority, that is, the bare affirmation of godly and learned men, is less to be regarded then their reasons, and yet their reasons, without the word, are of no value, in Divine matters. For all men are liars, apt to be deceived, and so to deceive, impossibility of erring being proper to the Scriptures, which therefore are only fit to be the Canon or rule for the ordering of Ministers concerning their whole behaviour in the house of God. 1Hence Christ and his Apostles, 1. reproved disorders by Scripture (so Christ did the profaning of the Temple) 2, justified things well done by Scripture (so Christ did the pulling of the ears of corn) 3. resolved & answered questions by Scripture (so Christ did,2 in the case of Divorce) 4. confuted errors by Scriptures (so Christ did the Pharisees and Sadducees) 5. confirmed and proved Doctrines by Scriptures (so Peter proved the resurrection and ascension of Christ &c.) 6. gave advice, and made orders, not by their own authority, but by the direction of the Holy Ghost, which immediate assistance seeing we want, light must be fetched from Scripture, if we will guide others safely by our counsel, without which learned men may err, have erred, and do err, & ⟨p. 175⟩therefore their judgments must be tried, and judged by it, and no further be rested in, then they agree with it. According to that of Jerom Quod ex Scripturâ non habet authoritatem câadem facilitate contemnitur, quâ acceptatur.
This pretence the Answerer insinuateth in that which he said about the form of Mr. B. calling, Ans. which was to minister the word, and the dependences thereof, according to the order of these Reformed Churches, and especially with these which are combined with the Classis of Amsterdam, Concerning that expression some thing more may be noted, in the examination of the seventeenth Section, and when we come to the eight and twentieth Section.
This pretence the Answerer insinuateth in that which he sayd about the forme of Mr. B. calling, Ans. which was to minister the word, and the dependances thereof, according to the order of these Reformed Churches, and especially with these which are combined with the Classis of Amsterdam, Concerning that expression some thing more may be noated, in the examination of the seventeenth Section, and when we come to the eight and twentith Section.
2. Two things, especially, hindred me from resting therein. 1. Because the same thing which they propounded, only as their private judgment, the Answered pressed as a law to me, wherein I must rest, that is, conforme thereunto, and this my resting therein must be the condition, whereupon he would consent to my setling there, else not. So that his finger was heavyer upon me, in this, then their loynes, & he assumed a power to himselfe of prescribing rules to me, which the government of these churces hath not given him, yea, more then is given to the Classes themselves by any Synod, or to any Synod by the word of God, to injoyne this thing to a Minister as a condition of his call to a pastorall charge. 2. Because the five Ministers propounded their private judgment nakedly without shewing their grounds from the Scripture, so that they seemed to me to deale by their authority, not by argument. Now the mere authority, that is, the bare affirmation of godly and learned men, is lesse to be regarded then their reasons, and yet their reasons, without the word, are of no value, in Divine matters. For all men are lyars, apt to be deceived, and so to deceive, impossibility of erring being proper to the Scriptures, which therefore are only fit to be the Canon or rule for the ordering of Ministers concerning their wholl behaviour in the house of God. 1Hence Christ and his Apostles, 1. reproved disorders by Scripture (so Christ did the profaning of the Temple) 2, justified things well done by Scripture (so Christ did the pulling of the eares of corne) 3. resolved & answered questions by Scripture (so Christ did,2 in the case of Divorce) 4. confuted errours by Scriptures (so Christ did the Pharisees and Sadduces) 5. confirmed and proved Doctrines by Scriptures (so Peter proved the resurrection and ascention of Christ &c.) 6. gave advice, and made orders, not by their owne authority, but by the direction of the Holy Ghoast, which immediate assistance seing we want, light must be fetched from Scripture, if we will guide others safely by our counsayle, without which learned men may erre, have erred, and doe erre, & ⟨p. 175⟩therefore their judgments must be tryed, and judged by it, and no further be rested in, then they agree with it. According to that of Ierom Quod ex Scripturâ non habet authoritatem câadem facilitate contemnitur, quâ acceptatur.