An apologetical reply to a book called an answer to the unjust complaint of…An apologeticall reply to a booke called an ansvver to the unjust complaint of…

An examination of his answer to the 16. Section, concerning their going to the Classis to seek their consent.

An examination of his ansvver to the 16. Section, concerning their going to the Classis to seeke their consent.

The truth of this passage I will briefly relate. After the Elders had received this answer from the Magistrate; out of their desire to accomplish the business (and not finding me at home when they came to speak with me) they went, without ⟨p. 186⟩my consent, or knowledge, to one of the Dutch ministers, whom they entreated to call an extraordinary Classis to meet on the monday following, fearing (as it seemeth) least longer delays might occasion new troubles. The minister, having granted their request, in their return homewards from him, they told me what they had done, about the calling of a Classis, I, being yet ignorant of the issue of their treaty with the Magistrates, desired to know what conclusion they had made, and the very words, wherein they had expressed their consent, which when I understood, I told them that matters were now in a worse state then before: they also apprehended my reason. I wished that the calling of a Classis had been forborne, and prayed them to return to the minister, from whom they came, and to wish him not to call an extraordinary Classis, for this matter, and to tell him that, upon some considerations, they are willing that matters rest as they are, till the ordinary time should come. They promised so to do, and went from me with that resolution, but another of the Elders, with whom they met afterwards, altered their purpose, and therefore they went not. This change of their mind I knew not, till it was too late to help it. The day when the Classis met, they were with me, in the morning, before they went to the meeting. I prayed them to deal plainly with the Classis, in telling them my judgment in this question, and told them the danger of neglecting so to do. They promised me, and purposed to do so, but perceiving that the Ministers of the Classis gave consent to my call, without interposing any question about my conformity to this custom, they did not perform their promise, still hoping and purposing to secure and satisfy me by an effectual order that should be made for that end, in the Consistory. Whereas the Answerer saith, that the Ministers, at that time, understood from them, that I had declared my consent with them, I am informed by the Elders, that, not one word was spoken, to them, at that time, thereabout.

THe truth of this passage I will breifely relate. After the Elders had received this answer from the Magistrate; out of their desire to accomplish the buisenes (and not finding me at home when they came to speake with me) they went, without ⟨p. 186⟩my consent, or knowledge, to one of the Dutch ministers, whom they intreated to call an extraordinary Classis to meet on the munday following, fearing (as it seemeth) least longer delayes might occasion new troubles. The minister, having granted their request, in their returne homewards from him, they told me what they had done, about the calling of a Classis, I, being yet ignorant of the issue of their treaty with the Magistrates, desired to know what conclusion they had made, and the very words, wherein they had expressed their consent, which when I understood, I told them that matters were now in a worse state then before: they also apprehended my reason. I wished that the calling of a Classis had bene forborne, and prayed them to returne to the minister, from whom they came, and to wish him not to call an extraordinary Classis, for this matter, and to tell him that, upon some considerations, they are willing that matters rest as they are, till the ordinary time should come. They promised so to doe, and went from me with that resolution, but another of the Elders, with whom they mett afterwards, altered their purpose, and therefore they went not. This change of their mind I knew not, till it was too late to helpe it. The day when the Classis mett, they were with me, in the morning, before they went to the meeting. I prayed them to deale plainly with the Classis, in telling them my judgment in this question, and told them the danger of neglecting so to doe. They promised me, and purposed to doe so, but perceiving that the Ministers of the Classis gave consent to my call, without interposing any question about my conformity to this custom, they did not performe their promise, still hoping and purposing to secure and satisfye me by an effectuall order that should be made for that end, in the Consistory. Whereas the Answerer sayth, that the Ministers, at that time, understood from them, that I had declared my consent with them, I am informed by the Elders, that, not one word was spoken, to them, at that time, thereabout.

whereas he saith, Had I known that he was unresolved to accord with us, and to go on in the same practise with us, I would never have made such a proposition for his admission, as I did, in the Classis. J answer.

whereas he sayth, Had I knowne that he was unresolved to accord with us, and to goe on in the same practise with us, I would never have made such a proposition for his admission, as I did, in the Classis. J answer.

2. What proposition he made I know not, but what opposition he made, both concerning the tendering of a call to me in writing, and concerning the manner of expressing my call, both he knoweth, and others can testify that were there present.

2. What proposition he made I know not, but what opposition he made, both concerning the tendring of a call to me in wrighting, and concerning the manner of expressing my call, both he knoweth, and others can testifye that were there present.

The answer to the seventeenth Section examined, concerning my withdrawing of my consent first made known unto him, as is pretended.

The answer to the seaventeenth Section examined, concerning my withdrawing of my consent first made knowne unto him, as is pretended.

The title of this Section supposeth. 1. that I had consented, 2. that afterwards J with drew my consent: the untruth of both which assertions hath been shown in the foregoing Sections. Here, he speaketh of matters that passed between us the next Consistory, after this meeting of the Classis. The story whereof was thus. A writing, wherein the agreement of the Answerer with the officers of the Church about my calling, was delivered to me by the Answerer, & Mr. A, which when I had read, I first gave them thanks for this expression of their good esteem of me, and then, to omit other passages, desired to be certified, whether the order was made in the Consistory which was promised. Whereby it appeareth that I still expected that an order should be made, more to my content then yet it had been. For answer hereunto, the Answerer told me, that they could do no more in that business, then had been done formerly When I heard this, & perceived, by a clause in that writing, that, in accepting this call, I should bind my self to conform to ⟨p. 188⟩the orders and customs of the Dutch Church in this particular, as well as in others, I made some demur indeed, and desired time for deliberation, and being urged by the Answerer to a speedy resolution, I gave my answer to them in the Consistory, in the end of the same week. But desiring, & obtaining secret conference with the Answerer, I acquainted him, in as inoffensive manner as I could, with my still continuing unsatisfiedness, about the lawfulness of that conformity which was expected, praying him to help me with his advise, that my desistance might be so ordered as might best conduce to the preventing of all disturbance, and offence. He refused to give advice, saying he might do nothing, of himself, in that matter. To omit other passages, seeing the Elders, and Deacons were now come together, we agreed to speak with them in the Consistory. As for his proceeding to hasten my calling, without delay, upon my supposed consent; the examining of the former Sections, hath sufficiently given light to the intelligent Reader, for the discovery of the vanity of this overture.

THe title of this Section supposeth. 1. that I had consented, 2. that afterwards J with drew my consent: the untruth of both which assertions hath bene shewen in the foregoing Sections. Here, he speaketh of matters that passed betweene us the next Consistory, after this meeting of the Classis. The story whereof was thus. A wrighting, wherein the agreement of the Answerer with the officers of the Church about my calling, was delivered to me by the Answerer, & Mr. A, which whē I had read, I first gave them thanckes for this expression of their good esteeme of me, and then, to omit other passages, desired to be certifyed, whether the order was made in the Consistory which was promised. Whereby it appeareth that I still expected that an order should be made, more to my content then yet it had bene. For answer hereunto, the Answerer told me, that they could doe no more in that buisenes, then had bene done formerly When I heard this, & perceived, by a clause in that wrighting, that, in accepting this call, I should bind my selfe to conforme to

But if any man think I made too strict an interpretation of the words in that writing, which the Answerer calleth a form of calling (because, upon the reading of it; I made some demur, desiring time of deliberation) let him know that, if I had accepted the calling delivered to me in that form, I had actually bound my self to conform to that unwarrantable custom. Nor is this my opinion alone, but the judgment of the Answerer, and (as he saith) of the Classis also, which will appear by his own words hereafter to be examined,¹ wherein, to prove that M.B. was not of the same opinion with me, he produceth these words out of the form of his calling, which was sent to him in writing. For (saith he) being called to administer the word and dependences thereof, according to the order of these Reformed Churches, and especially of those which are combined with the Classis of Amsterdam, and making no exception against this form, but resting therein, after this question had been propounded unto him, this is taken for an evidence that he was willing to observe their order in the administration of Baptism. TO SUCH AS THEY USE TO DO, and so it was understood by the Classis.

But if any man thinck I made too strict an interpretation of the words in that wrighting, which the Answerer calleth a forme of calling (because, upon the reading of it; I made some demurr, desiring time of deliberation) let him know that, if I had accepted the calling delivered to me in that forme, I had actually bound my selfe to conforme to that unwarrantable custom. Nor is this my opinion alone, but the judgment of the Answerer, and (as he sayth) of the Classis also, which will appeare by his owne words hereafter to be examined,¹ wherein, to prove that M.B. was not of the same opinion with me, he produceth these words out of the forme of his calling, which was sent to him in wrighting. For (sayth he) being called to administer the word and dependances thereof, according to the •rder of these Reformed Churches, and especially of those which are combined with the Classis of Amsterdam, and making no exception against this forme, but resting therein, after this question had bene propounded unto him, this is taken for an evidence that he was willing to observe their order in the administration of Baptisme. TO SƲCH AS THEY ƲSE TO DOE, and so it was understood by the Classis.

So that, it is not only the judgment of the Answerer but of the Classis also. Nor was this Mr. B. case alone, to have such an exposition put upon those words, in his form of calling, but in the same sense, the same form was tendered me. Therefore the Answerer addeth. And had Mr. D. accepted this call, when it was, in the same form, offered unto him, that would also have been taken for a grant of his professed agreement with us, &c. Now let the Reader judge, whether, my apprehensions, concerning the purpose of those expressions, so rightly concurring with the intention and meaning of the Classis, and of the Answerer, and my judgement being so settled concerning the unlawfulness of that custom, and all means for accommodation being frustrated, I had not cause to desire time for deliberation, and to be wholly turned, in my affections, from that calling and employment, which was so clogged with ill conditions.

So that, it is not only the judgment of the Answerer but of the Classis also. Nor was this Mr. B. case alone, to have such an exposition put upon those words, in his forme of calling, but in the same sense, the same forme was tendred me. Therefore the Answerer addeth. And had Mr. D. accepted this call, when it was, in the same forme, offered unto him, that would also have bene taken for a grant of his professed agreement with us, &c. Now let the Reader judge, whether, my apprehensions, concerning the purpose of those expressions, so rightly concurring with the intention and meaning of the Classis, and of the Answerer, and my judgement being so setled concerning the unlawfullnes of that custom, and all meanes for accommodation being frustrated, I had not cause to desire time for deliberation, and to be wholly turned, in my affections, from that calling and imployment, which was so clogged with ill conditions.

The answer to the 18. Section examined, concerning another Act of accommodation for my satisfaction.

The Answerer beginneth this Section with a misreport of my withdrawing my consent, which, he saith, I had formerly given, whereas the truth is, that, from first to last, I was of the same judgment against this unwarrantable custom, and so expressed my self, without any alteration.

THe Answerer beginneth this Section with a misreport of my withdrawing my consent, which, he sayth, I had formerly given, whereas the truth is, that, from first to last, I was of the same judgment against this unwarrantable custom, and so expressed my selfe, without any alteration.

The passages in the Consistory, the 11. of Feb. 1634. the Answerer reporteth some what disorderly, in that he beginneth with that which was last, and maketh the testification of the Elders to follow that Act, which went before it, whereby the right understanding of things is hindered. For, after that private discourse, before mentioned, had passed between him and me, and after some other speeches in the Consistory, and ⟨p. 190⟩after I had walked forth, at their entreaty, a great while, that they might privately consult, being called in again to hear the issue, whereunto matters were brought, I found that the order, spoken of in the 13. Section, was again renewed and enlarged, with this addition, that the Elders and Deacons likewise promised to send such to me as should come to them. Which was as much as just nothing. For, the same objections which were made against the same offer made on the behalf of the Answerer and of the Coster, in the 13. Section, are of force against this also.

The passages in the Consistory, the 11. of Feb. 1634. the Answerer reporteth some what disorderly, in that he beginneth with that which was last, and maketh the testification of the Elders to follow that Act, which went before it, whereby the right understanding of things is hindred. For, after that private discourse, before mentioned, had passed betweene him and me, and after some other speeches in the Consistory, and ⟨p. 190⟩after I had walked forth, at their intreaty, a great while, that they might privately consult, being called in againe to heare the issue, whereunto matters were brought, I found that the order, spoken of in the 13. Section, was againe renewed and inlarged, with this addition, that the Elders and Deacons likewise promised to send such to me as should come to them. Which was as much as just nothing. For, the same objections which were made against the same offer made on the behalfe of the Answerer and of the Coster, in the 13. Section, are of force against this also.

Whereas he addeth, that, both he, and they promised to prevent all further occasion of offence, so much as in them lay, had this been done accordingly, the Elders might well have added, in way of testification, their persuasion, that no occasion would befall to work any scruple unto me in that which I feared. For, then the order which I desired, had been made to prevent further occasion of offence, seeing that lay in their power to do, if the Answerer would have joined with the Elders lovingly and freely therein, and no other course could help me, as the case now stood, which the Answerer knew, though the Elders and Deacons did not, all of them, see so far into it. Now, seeing this lay in them to do, and yet they did it not, neither would the Answerer suffer it to be done, how was this promise performed of doing what lay in them?

Whereas he addeth, that, both he, and they promised to prevent all further occasion of offence, so much as in them lay, had this bene done accordingly, the Elders might well have added, in way of testification, their persuasion, that no occasion would befall to worke any scruple unto me in that which I feared. For, then the order which I desired, had bene made to prevent further occasion of offence, seing that lay in their power to doe, if the Answerer would have joyned with the Elders lovingly and freely therein, and no other course could helpe me, as the case now stood, which the Answerer knew, though the Elders and Deacons did not, all of them, see so farr into it. Now, seing this lay in them to doe, and yet they did it not, neither would the Answerer suffer it to be done, how was this promise performed of doing what lay in them?

When I had spoken somewhat, to show the insufficiency of this order to secure me: they again prayed me to walk forth, and, after a shorter absence then before, they sent for me to return to them, to hear what was added for perfecting that order, which they wrote down, in these words. And further we purpose if any should at unawares, bring such children, whose parents are not members, we shall desire and counsel them by the Coster (without absolute denial) to bring their children the next exercise following, that, in the mean time, there may be conveniency of examination.

When I had spoken somewhat, to shew the insufficiency of this order to secure me: they againe prayed me to walke forth, and, after a shorter absence then before, they sent for me to returne to them, to heare what was added for perfecting that order, which they wrote downe, in these words. And further we purpose if any should at unawares, bring such children, whose parents are not members, we shall desire and counsaile them by the Coster (without absolute denyall) to bring their children the next excercise following, that, in the meane time, there may be conveniency of examination.

Upon which Additional I will note some observations. 1. That the Elders and Deacons, did, in effect, revoke that testification, which was last spoken of. For, by their adding of this ⟨p. 191⟩to what was then done, it appeared that themselves saw that the former order was not sufficient to safeguard me from the thing that I feared. 2. That this Additional is only a declaration of their purpose, but hath not the force of an order, 3. That, considering that they purposed only to signify so much privately to those persons who should at anytime so come (and not to have it published, that the whole Church might take knowledge of it) and that by the Coster, a mean man, whom they, to whom he should speak, would easily slight, and his commission was only to desire and counsel them, which they would easily reject, and ask him, what he had to do to counsel them to defer the baptising of their children, In this case, what could he answer but this, J do only desire and counsel you, but I may not absolutely deny you? And, how can such a course secure me?

Vpon which Additionall I will noate some observations. 1. That the Elders and Deacons, did, in effect, revoke that testification, which was last spoken of. For, by their adding of this ⟨p. 191⟩to what was then done, it appeared that themselves saw that the former order was not sufficient to safeguard me from the thing that I feared. 2. That this Additionall is onely a declaration of their purpose, but hath not the force of an order, 3. That, considering that they purposed onely to signifye so much privately to those persons who should at anytime so come (and not to have it published, that the wholl Church might take knowledge of it) and that by the Coster, a meane man, whom they, to whom he should speake, would easily slight, and his commission was only to desire and counsaile them, which they would easily reject, and aske him, what he had to doe to counsaile them to deferr the baptising of their children, In this case, what could he answer but this, J doe onely desire and counsail you, but I may not absolutely deny you? And, how can such a course secure me?

Here again the Answerer misreporteth my answer: for he affirmeth, that this would not content me, unless there might have been an absolute denial of Baptism, in such a case, if entreaty would not serve. But I made no such Answer, neither is any such answer recorded in the Acts of that Consistory, which I have purposely examined. All that I stood upon, was, that a firm order might be made in the Consistory to secure me from future trouble, about that matter. But this the Answerer would not permit to be done, though it might have been done, without any offence to the Classis, and with much content to the Church. So that I have just cause to complain of his want of brotherly moderation, in this point, what soever he seemed to yield, which, he knew, was not sufficient to prevent the thing which I feared.

Here againe the Answerer misreporteth my answer: for he affirmeth, that this would not content me, unlesse there might have benean absolute denyall of Baptisme, in such a case, if intreaty would not serve. But I made no such Answer, neither is any such answer recorded in the Acts of that Consistory, which I have purposely examined. All that I stoode upon, was, that a firme order might be made in the Consistory to secure me from future trouble, about that matter. But this the Answerer would not permit to be done, though it might have bene done, without any offence to the Classis, and with much content to the Church. So that I have just cause to complaine of his want of brotherly moderation, in this point, what soever he seemed to yeeld, which, he knew, was not sufficient to prevent the thing which I feared.